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Cloud Operating Systems Software

Adobe's Next Major Creative Cloud Release Won't Support Older OSes (petapixel.com) 308

Posted by BeauHD from the decisions-decisions dept.
nehumanuscrede writes: Adobe ruffled a lot of feathers when they decided to cease selling their standalone products and go subscription only. While a lot of folks complained, it doesn't seem to have had much (if any) of a negative impact on Adobe financially. Now, according to PetaPixel, Adobe is poised to cease support for older operating systems by depriving those users of upgrades and updates beyond the cut-off date, even though those users are paying customers (and have been for years). I'm curious if those impacted will upgrade to the more modern OS, or simply find an alternative to Adobe software (paid or otherwise).

Personally, I'm still rocking Windows 7 because, in my opinion, there isn't anything wrong with it. So, in the near future, it seems I'm going to have a choice to make: Drop my Creative Cloud subscription, upgrade to an OS I absolutely loathe like Windows 10, or continue paying full price for apps that will cease receiving updates (which was Adobe's whole argument for going with the subscription method in the first place so folks will always have the latest updated software). What are your thoughts? "Your Windows won't be supported if you haven't upgraded beyond the Windows 10 Anniversary Update (v1607) that was released to the public on August 2, 2016," reports PetaPixel. "And if you're on a Mac, you won't be supported if you haven't upgraded beyond Mac OS 10.11 (El Capitan), which was released on September 30, 2015."
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Adobe's Next Major Creative Cloud Release Won't Support Older OSes More

Adobe's Next Major Creative Cloud Release Won't Support Older OSes

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  • Adobe is digging its own grave (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31, 2018 @02:12AM (#57229642)

    First, they get greedy

    Second, they stop being innovative

    Third, they treat their customers badly

    All pointing towards the end of Adobe, soon.

    • Re:Adobe is digging its own grave (Score:4, Informative)

      by brantondaveperson ( 1023687 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @03:40AM (#57229940) Homepage

      I would agree, but Photoshop is still without peer. I'd love to use something else, but there just isn't anything that I've found that's even close.

      • PhotoPea [photopea.com] is a free (with ads) Photoshop clone.

      • What's wrong with stopping at Photoshop CS6 and never upgrading?
        There's no monthly fees and it will never stop working.

    • Said me about 15 years ago. In other news, Linux is about to take the PC world by storm.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jythie ( 914043 )
      As long as Photoshop is the standard courseware taught at colleges for people planning on entering related professions, Adobe is probably not going anywhere.

    • The only issue is lack of competitive alternatives.
      Luckily for me my job isn't in desktop publishing so I can deal with crappy open source versions for the tiny things I may need to use, but creative cloud is too expensive monthly fee for someone who has a passing interest in using the products.
      I got Photoshop 7 at the turn of the century for a few hundred bucks from some sale the retailer was having. I used it for about 4 or 5 years, and paid a few hundred bucks for the upgrade to CS2 or 3 I don't remember

      • The only issue is lack of competitive alternatives.

        I got tired of Adobe's subscription dunning, the non-intuitive operation, the privacy invasion... so I went ahead and wrote my own image editor [ourtimelines.com]. As I need new functionality, I add it.

        So now I have something that is 100% intuitive for me (and for others... consistent interfaces tend to make that happen), does everything I want, won't suddenly drop support for my OS, doesn't "expire", doesn't use my personal information to shove ads at me or "share" with dubi

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • My thoughts? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @02:13AM (#57229650)

    "I told you so, and so did a lot of other people" about covers it.

    • I was one of those other people.

      The day will not come when I allow my work and my clients' confidential information to be kept beyond my direct physical control.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I wonder what the EU will do if Adobe mines through customer data. Is there a setting to opt out?

        For NZ clients, I wonder if they can claim a refund. personally I will never be a hamster and run on a treadmill, and double that for a vendor with a track record.

        Will Adobe be taken off govt contracts? Time to pull the pin.

      • Re:My thoughts? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @05:03AM (#57230116) Homepage

        Let's be clear and avoid the doublespeak, you are not paying a subscription, you are paying protection, either pay or the content you created no longer belongs to you. Straight up protection racket, do you know what improvements there will be in the software, what they will be able to sell to tempt you to buy upgrades, well, basically fuck all, hence the protection racket on your data, the content you created.

        The tech corporations are all turning into massive dick brains, with massive erections for infinite profits for nothing. Start paying that protection and the price will go up and up and up infinitely. In a decade either they are dead or you can add a zero into that protection payment and not in your favour, in theirs.

        • The tech corporations are all turning into massive dick brains, with massive erections for infinite profits for nothing.

          Not all of them are. There are now several alternative creative software products available that are already useful even for a lot of professional work and they are developing fast. Typically a full permanent licence for one of those costs about as much as a month or two of CC subscription. As always, there's a lot of momentum that supports the incumbent 800lb gorilla, but it's no longer the case that Adobe is the only serious game in town and the only alternatives are OSS products that lack the same breadt

        • Only one zero? Are you sure?

        • you are not paying a subscription, you are paying protection, either pay or the content you created no longer belongs to you.

          And yet it's quite easy to open up the files from the Adobe suite in other software.

          do you know what improvements there will be in the software, what they will be able to sell to tempt you to buy upgrades, well, basically fuck all

          Indeed you would think this if you lived in an alternate reality. Back in the real world though the entire Creative Suite has received a long list of continuous improvements, upgrades and even additional software with entirely new functionality without any change in the license cost.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

          Have some Kipling. [kiplingsociety.co.uk]

          And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
          But we've proved it again and again,
          That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
          You never get rid of the Dane.

  • I don't think most people realize how hard it is to move a piece of software forward while supporting dozens of antiquated platforms.

    At some point, a professional should upgrade themselves. I'm sure Adobe will leave an older version available for those who don't update (if only so they can continue to get the monthly revenue).

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by WaffleMonster ( 969671 )

      I don't think most people realize how hard it is to move a piece of software forward while supporting dozens of antiquated platforms.

      How hard? Can you characterize cost benefit in this specific case or are you just stating a baseless opinion?

      At some point, a professional should upgrade themselves

      Hopefully by picking a different vendor.

      • Re:Making modern software for outdated platforms (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 31, 2018 @03:44AM (#57229952)
        Software engineer / developer here. I can.

        For software, it needs to be tested on (at the bare minimum) every OS it needs to run on. For rapid development like agile that means multiple tests running per day as builds occur. Each of these platforms could have bugs that occur only on that platform, and need to be patched without breaking all the other versions - which means more testing. Not all of this testing is automated (although the vast majority will be these days), but either way it's a use of time and resource.

        Factor in that individual patch versions within an OS can cause problems, as well as other installed software packages, drivers and the like, and supporting OSs that are no longer considered current becomes more and more of a task.

        It's less of an issue for free software (free in the money sense) because firstly there's no promise or contract that says it has to work on everyone's machines, and secondly because the userbase for said software tends to contribute bug reports and, for FOSS, fixes back to the code base. For a sold product like Photoshop, part of what you're paying for is absolute compatibility with your system. If that's starting to prove a major resource drain on Adobe, and it will be fairly substantial, then it makes sense that they're trying to cut our operating systems that are past their sell by date.

        • Software engineer / developer here. I can.

          You provide a lot of what-ifs, but leave out the most important one: what if Adobe developers were at least remotely competent at cross-platform development, and created an actual API that they would code to. Implement that API once across each supported platform, then stop worrying about it. That's cross-platform development tutorial #1.

          Surely they're not so dumb as to be unable to do that.

          They're not.

          But doing so would remove an excuse for fleecing their customer base.

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Because your mythical write-once-and-never-update API does not exist.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by jythie ( 914043 )
            Having developed cross platform APIs, that is not necessarily a good idea. Not only does it fail to solve the problem since you still have to maintain the API, but you've added an additional layer of complexity that has to be constantly changed and tested. As you say, it is a 'cross platform developer tutorial #1', but stops being a simple solution by #10.

            • Having developed cross platform APIs, that is not necessarily a good idea. Not only does it fail to solve the problem since you still have to maintain the API, but you've added an additional layer of complexity that has to be constantly changed and tested. As you say, it is a 'cross platform developer tutorial #1', but stops being a simple solution by #10.

              All of programming ignoring problem domain is about managing complexity. You never "solve the problem" you manage it.

          • Re:Making modern software for outdated platforms (Score:4, Informative)

            by Daltorak ( 122403 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:52AM (#57231220)

            Software engineer / developer here. I can.

            You provide a lot of what-ifs, but leave out the most important one: what if Adobe developers were at least remotely competent at cross-platform development, and created an actual API that they would code to. Implement that API once across each supported platform, then stop worrying about it. That's cross-platform development tutorial #1.

            This isn't a "cross-platform development" issue, this is an "older operating systems are missing features that will help us make better software" issue.

            In Adobe's case, OS X El Capitan is the first version to support Metal -- this API is much more efficient on systems with multiple CPU cores. Windows 10 is the first version to support DirectX 12, which opens op the capability of using multiple discrete GPUs for rendering tasks on Windows. There is no "cross-platform" or "backwards-compatible" way of doing these kinds of things -- all applications, including your mythical compatibility layer, will depend on the low-level graphics capabilities of the operating systems they use. It's completely unreasonable to expect Adobe to reimplement core OS features just to appease some technological refuseniks who prefer decade-old operating systems for aesthetic or emotional reasons.

            And look, I get it, people don't like Windows 10 because they've bought into the hype that it's a "spying operating system". Yes, it sends a list of your installed apps to Microsoft, but they do that so you won't receive Windows Updates with known compatibility issues. And yes, it's measuring how long certain operations take, like opening the Settings app, but they do that so that Microsoft can prioritize performance improvements.

            As for Apple, yes, macOS High Sierra has been the worst Mac OS release in over a decade, and macOS Mojave is shortening the leash on supported hardware range for Macs to 6-7 years, and it's removing features that people actually use like Back To My Mac... it's really super-frustrating.

            But here's the thing: both operating systems also continue to add very useful programming APIs for developers so that they can continue to improve their software. The next update to Windows 10 is finally adding native Unix-style ptys [microsoft.com], for instance, and the console natively supports xterm-256color. Mojave, for its part, is finally implementing the OpenType-SVG font standard, i.e. fonts with colour. Maybe these don't interest you, but there's literally thousands of low-level improvements like these over the last several years, many of which would make your computing life nicer.

            But if you don't know about those things, and make personal computing choices based solely on press negativity, you'll never get to learn about, much less enjoy the upsides.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Hopefully by picking a different vendor.

        If GIMP, Inkscape, and Krita don't do it for you, Affinity makes a nice set to programs to replace Illustrator and Photoshop called Designer and Photo.

        Corel still exists too.

        And oh yeah, and Fuck Adobe.

      • I don't think most people realize how hard it is to move a piece of software forward while supporting dozens of antiquated platforms.

        How hard? Can you characterize cost benefit in this specific case or are you just stating a baseless opinion?

        At some point, a professional should upgrade themselves

        Hopefully by picking a different vendor.

        It's one of those things that's kind of obvious if you have ever worked on software. Along with a few others I maintain a very complex suite of software on two separate platforms, Linux and a Unix OS. We only have to make the software work on one point release of each of two those two OS platforms but just that can be a nightmare simply because of the differences between the compilers and the build environments. Add to that the fact that other tools and libraries sometimes behave differently from platform t

        • Well ... yes. As a practical matter, very little of the huge mass of software loose in the world is written to actual specifications. And the specifications that do exist are rarely as clear and unambiguous as one might hope. That's why even such apparently simple and straightforward entities as Markdown or media playlists have numerous variants and dialects. Without specifications, it is often impossible to build regression test suites that provide adequate coverage. As a result software is pretty muc

      • Yes. Anyone who works in software or product development or has half a brain can characterize the costs. It costs money to train support agents, develop patches/bug fixes, do QA testing, and to do so in an environment that supports Enterprise class customers. Your post is really fucking stupid and people are voting it for being "Insightful"? What's "insightful" about not having a bloody clue about what you're talking about and acting like you do? Some of you \.ers are retarded and are simply seething at fau

    • Re:Making modern software for outdated platforms (Score:5, Insightful)

      by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @02:56AM (#57229782) Journal
      That's the point. They are giving you those 2 choices: upgrade your OS, or keep paying for software without receiving any updates for it. Many people (myself included) argue that the subscription model has taken away a 3rd choice that we should have: keep your old OS and keep using the out of date software, without paying a dime because you've already paid the purchase price once.

      • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @04:10AM (#57230014)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • "Why does something that works ever need to be "upgraded"

          Software that works. An interesting, but flawed concept. It's not compatible with maximizing profits. Fortunately, we have embraced modern software development technologies that make it exceedingly unlikely that software will ever actually work.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jythie ( 914043 )
        Which is why I still use the offline CS version, even though it is pretty dated at this point. Still works, works with my OS, and I do not need to upgrade anything unless I can justify it by some benefit to me.

    • Re:Making modern software for outdated platforms (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jrumney ( 197329 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @03:12AM (#57229860)
      The point is they already stopped selling software, and now only let you rent the latest version. So I am sure they won't leave an older version available for those who don't update.

      • They'll surely leave the last working version for Windows 7 available for a while. What do you think happens to their recurring subscription revenues if they suddenly lose about half of all Windows users as potential customers?

    • What does Photoshop do with Windows 10 that it can't do with Windows 7?

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        What does Photoshop do with Windows 10 that it can't do with Windows 7?

        Exactly.

        As much as I may hate Microsoft, they have always done a good job of maintaining backward compatibility. My copy of Microsoft Office 2003 runs just fine on Windows 10. But Windows 10 is broken, unusable shit, so I went back to Windows 7.

        If the latest version of Photoshop runs on Windows 7 today, the only reason it would not run on Windows 7 tomorrow is if you deliberately change Photoshop for the specific purpose of breaking compatibility.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jythie ( 914043 )
          Having debugged Adobes installers for OSX stuff, Adobe is terrible at keeping to OS conventions and writes some pretty brittle stuff. They are the type of company that will hardcode a path rather then ask the OS where something is located, so things that should be seamlessly backward compatible break with them.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by teg ( 97890 )

          What does Photoshop do with Windows 10 that it can't do with Windows 7?

          Exactly.

          As much as I may hate Microsoft, they have always done a good job of maintaining backward compatibility. My copy of Microsoft Office 2003 runs just fine on Windows 10. But Windows 10 is broken, unusable shit, so I went back to Windows 7.

          If the latest version of Photoshop runs on Windows 7 today, the only reason it would not run on Windows 7 tomorrow is if you deliberately change Photoshop for the specific purpose of breaking compatibility.

          You're confusing backwards compatibility (apps that work on Windows 7 work on Windows 10) with forwards compatibility (apps that work on Windows 10 work on Windows 7). I don't know Windows that well, but it's perfectly possible for Microsoft to have added capabilities and features that are useful for Adobe and are present in modern Windows but not in Windows as release a decade ago.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
        Maybe nothing yet for the very reason that they have to still support Windows 7.
    • There is nothing 'antiquated' about Windows 7. Its a rock-solid OS and markedly different from its replacement, especially form a professional standpoint. Honestly, Microsoft should be forced to continue to update FOR AS LONG AS THEY HOLD THE COPYRIGHT ON IT.

    • It isn't that hard, if you design the product to be rather platform independent. I make my career fixing and maintaining others code. If they were thinking in terms of keeping it platform independent, then it is often just a recompile away (or it just already works) on newer systems, as well with older systems. However if the maker is thinking Windows 98 and IE is the way things are and will always be like this, then it is much harder to maintain, and would require a lot of rebuilding that would break comp

  • Not quite (Score:5, Informative)

    by davmoo ( 63521 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @02:31AM (#57229706)

    According to reports on DPReview quoting Adobe, Adobe will still be supporting Windows 7 64 bit.

  • Not bothered (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dwywit ( 1109409 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @02:33AM (#57229710)

    Win 7 and CS6 still meet my needs. When they stop meeting my needs, I'll consider options.

    When this computer dies, I'll probably continue to run Win7+CS6 in a VM.

    • Same. CS6 does everything I need it to and there is nothing wrong with win7.

    • I'm rocking CS3 on Win7. I still have the install DVD from back when I was a professional graphic artist over a decade ago. I have CC at work, though I don't use it much. There have been a few small improvements, but honestly, not much has changed. I just did an enormous freelance project using CS3 without incident. Graphics happened 10 years ago, and there wasn't much you couldn't do then that you can do now.

      There is no value proposition for the consumer in Adobe's pricing model, and they know it, so they

  • Windows 10 isn't that bad... (Score:5, Funny)

    by trabby ( 4123953 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @04:28AM (#57230058)

    Once you whack it on the head with a sledgehammer and disable all the rubbish app stuff, Windy 10 is ok.

      Add Classic Shell / Classic Start (new open source name)
      Use Winaero Tweaker.
      Use Disable Win Tracking.
      Add Aero Glass for Windows 8 (if that is your thing, needs a donation for no nag).
      Add old calculator.
      Give paint 3d the heave ho.
      Add the old windows picture viewer.
      Add back all the old sound schemes (some guy on deviantart has done this).

    • Re:Windows 10 isn't that bad... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rudy_wayne ( 414635 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @06:00AM (#57230212)

      Once you whack it on the head with a sledgehammer and disable all the rubbish app stuff, Windy 10 is ok.

      LOL!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the laugh!!!

      Windows 10 isn't that bad! You just have to run a dozen third party programs to put back all the things that Microsoft ripped out for no good reason!

    • Re:Windows 10 isn't that bad... (Score:5, Informative)

      by mjwx ( 966435 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @07:59AM (#57230594)

      Once you whack it on the head with a sledgehammer and disable all the rubbish app stuff, Windy 10 is ok.

        Add Classic Shell / Classic Start (new open source name)

        Use Winaero Tweaker.

        Use Disable Win Tracking.

        Add Aero Glass for Windows 8 (if that is your thing, needs a donation for no nag).

        Add old calculator.

        Give paint 3d the heave ho.

        Add the old windows picture viewer.

        Add back all the old sound schemes (some guy on deviantart has done this).

      And be prepared to do this each and every time you update as each update puts all the crapware back in.

  • On the Mac side, anyway, it seems Adobe is just saying it’s not going to support versions of the OS which aren’t supported by Apple - El Capitan (10.11) will be falling off the support bandwagon as soon as Mohave (10.14) is released in the next few weeks.

    That doesn’t seem unreasonable, in and of itself.

    The idea that Adobe wants you to pay a subscription for software which has been feature-complete for years, on the other hand...

  • Looks like Microsoft is trying to avoid another Windows XP where people use it for years after the official end of support. By forcing killer apps from various software companies to be 10 only, it can get people into the telemetry ecosystem. If only the penguin made a better effort to save us. Valve, if you’re listening use your new Proton feature to support non gaming software and offer people an exit from from telemetry.

    • Looks like Microsoft is trying to avoid another Windows XP where people use it for years after the official end of support.

      Then they probably should have avoided replacing it with an OS nobody asked for and nobody wants. Two of them, actually.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Megane ( 129182 )

      They "force" software companies to stop supporting older OS versions by simply dropping support in Visual Studio. A software company may still keep using an older version of VS for a while, but eventually they will need another seat, and won't be able to buy a new copy of the older full version. If MS knows what they're doing, the newer versions of VS won't even be able to use the old support files if you somehow sneaked them in, but there's certainly no target-OS UI checkbox to use them. Apple isn't quite

  • When Adobeâ(TM)s businesses decisions force users to invest thousands of dollars in hardware upgrades, I think theyâ(TM)ll worry. If your two-versions-old, essentially free OS upgrade is still based on personal preferences, you probably donâ(TM)t use CC professionally and therefore donâ(TM)t factor into Adobeâ(TM)s future plans.

  • "I want to stick with windows 7" and "I want the latest adobe" are simply incompatible. I wish it weren't, but hey, you can't have both old and new on the same machine. A year ago, I was fine with vista on my ten-year old machine. But then even firefox refused to connect to modern SSL web-sites.

    So you get to decide, upgrade everything (occasionally), or stick with old everything.

    But you've stepped on a landmine of mine. You loath Windows 10; but with about five hours of clicking, it becomes nearly ident

  • Reading through to the original blog post [adobe.com], they are making pretty much the same announcement that many other ISVs make -- when the underlying OS is no longer maintained by the OS vendor, or is in the process of being depricated, they don't make new software on it. To quote the blog:

    Microsoft discontinued mainstream support for Windows 8.1 in January 2018. Mainstream support for Windows 7 support ended in 2015. For more information on Windows support, visit the Windows lifecycle fact sheet. Apple has announced macOS 10.14 (Mojave) for the fall of 2018 — and we will continue our policy of supporting the three most recent versions of MacOS.

    From my career working at an ISV, these choices are perfectly reasonable, as attempting to support the old OS becomes something of a boat anchor on your ability to develop new features that rely on new features (or security co

    • "Do people complain about projects not supporting RHEL 5, which ended regular support in early 2017?"

      I'm not sure. How much do they pay per month for it, and what promises were made when the subscription was sold to them?

  • Headline at odd with facts (Score:3)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:39AM (#57231124)

    To me supporting an OS back to 2015 is still supporting "older OS'es", that was quite some time ago (in computer OS terms).

    I don't think it is unreasonable, at all, for a software maker to require to have an OS no older than three to four years! That is potentially a ton of useful system libraries you are missing out on if you want to support something older.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Ramze ( 640788 )

      I respectfully disagree. Also, word to the wise, don't ever say that to an IT department during an interview. Counties and banks keep hardware 50 years old and maintain OSes that are decades old -- and many run on COBOL and various ancient, long-dead languages. Then, there's the product designers -- like boat hull manufacturers which use CAD-based systems that are easily 15 to 20 years old running on OSes almost just as old.

      You want the latest and greatest libraries and functionality -- great. Good fo

  • Just use old versions of Photoshop and other offerings from Adobe. Is there really something new in any of their stuff that you can't live without?

  • Adobe switched from having their own dolby codec to using the built in OS codecs so they could save a few $ in licensing. So I haven't been able to use the most up to date versions on windows 7 for a year or so now. Toss in that they upped the monthly price and I think it's time to ditch them. If they switched to the monthly charges with the excuse that we will always have the most up to date version, then I don't feel bad replacing a .dll, cancelling my subscription and forgoing updates.

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