Windows 7 Will Get Updates for Four More Years -- If You Pay (zdnet.com) 188
An anonymous reader quotes ZDNet:
With the Windows 7 end-of-support clock slowly winding down to January 14, 2020, Microsoft is announcing it will offer, for a fee, continuing security updates for the product through January 2023. This isn't the first time Microsoft has done this for a version of Windows, but it may be the first time it has been so public about its plans to do so.
The paid Windows 7 Extended Security Updates (ESUs) will be sold on a per-device basis, with the price increasing each year. These ESUs will be available to any Windows 7 Professional and Windows 7 Enterprise users with volume-licensing agreements, and those with Windows Software Assurance and/or Windows 10 Enterprise or Education subscriptions will get a discount. Office 365 ProPlus will continue to work on devices with Windows 7 Extended Security Updates through January 2023.
The paid Windows 7 Extended Security Updates (ESUs) will be sold on a per-device basis, with the price increasing each year. These ESUs will be available to any Windows 7 Professional and Windows 7 Enterprise users with volume-licensing agreements, and those with Windows Software Assurance and/or Windows 10 Enterprise or Education subscriptions will get a discount. Office 365 ProPlus will continue to work on devices with Windows 7 Extended Security Updates through January 2023.
where is Service Pack 2 Unofficial? (Score:3)
That puts you on the embedded track?
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yeah, it won't take long.. either for a registry edit to enable updates.. or repositories that contain the updates... gee, thanks, microsoft, for rolling them up into single monthly packages.. should make manual updates 1000x easier once you kill off 7 to further push your ad-filled, spy-infested, online-focused piece of shit.
Microsoft managers lack social ability, IMO. (Score:2)
Some of the many, many reports of Microsoft managers thinking they can manipulate and control everyone, as though the managers are government dictators:
Microsoft is infesting Windows 10 with annoying ads [theverge.com] (March 17, 2017)
Microsoft, stop sabotaging Windows 10. [infoworld.com] (March 21, 2017)
Microsoft's Intolerable Windows 10 Aggression [ecommercetimes.com] (May 27, 2016)
Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. [networkworld.com] "Burie
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It must be localised. I have a standard pro account. I have onedrive installed. I don't use onedrive but I've never seen this add anywhere other than in screenshots. Likewise with Candy Crush or the popup that says Edge is better than Chrome. They must be controlled by a setting somewhere or maybe they are limited to the USA only.
Re: where is Service Pack 2 Unofficial? (Score:2)
Windows10 is pretty decent.
Is it better than getting head from a lotlizard with chipped teeth?? "It's all relative," as they say in Arkansas and Redmond...
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It's better than using Linux at least.
Granted that isn't saying much, especially since the barely functional big distros are lapping up Potheadering's systemJizz.
I've always said that I'll stop dual booting Windows when the Linux gaming situation improves. That happened months ago when I discovered Lutris (before Steam did a similar thing in their beta client)
There's no reason for me to run Windows anymore, but I hope you have fun paying for the inevitable subscription based Windows 10.
If the majority gets on board when they do that, they won't need to make another version of Windows, the one you have now with it's seasonal patches will have to suffice.
Even though I
Waste of money. (Score:2, Informative)
Windows is not securable. It is riddled with fundamental design flaws. If you're using it for any mission-critical systems, you suck at your job and you should be ashamed of yourself.
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Well, I've seen it used in medical equipment. Despite Microsoft saying in the EULA that it is not for use in such environments. That is yet another level of mission-critical.
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It's a nightmare in some medical systems too. There was one project after I left a company where they went from a stable and reliable RTOS to embedded Windows NT, all because some high level component was mandated and that component was built on top of MFC. So rip out all the stuff that's working, spend a few years trying to shoehorn in stuff that doesn't fit the purpose.
However mostly when I see Windows in medical equipment it's not mission-critical equipment. They're in record keeping, monitors, stuff l
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Being a Linux/Unix guy myself. With a trained administrator good a user policies Windows is actually rather good at security settings, and has been a stable system for over a decade now.
It really took them 20 years to get to what they said Windows 95 would be like.
Re: Waste of money. (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows 2000 is what killed desktop Linux. The old 16 bit Windows riding on a DOS was a stability and security nightmare. A lot of power users were ready to leap from Windows to a more stable platform. NT 4 was usable and mostly stable but Microsoft wasn't fully committed until W2K came out.
W2K gave users stability and a practical no-frills desktop. It was so good that many of us almost skipped XP, which was seen as the candyland for mainstream customers, only outdone in this regard by Vista. Late e
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But NT4 in my experience was much better than Windows 2000. I'm glad w2k was short lived.
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I recall Windows 2000 being very solid, except Explorer was a buggy mess (some things never change). It also had the best-looking desktop environment of any version of Windows ever, and I'll fight anyone who says differently.
I was happy with XP and Windows 7, and I am not looking forward to the day that my employer has to move us on from Windows 7 to that eye-sore Windows 10 with its incredibly ugly and poorly-designed UI. I don't care how much better it might be under the hood (and it generally does see
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XP was a very important milestone for games (which is a crowd that, at the time, intersected heavily with power users). It was the first NT-series OS on which more Windows games worked than didn't.
couldn't find ms link in zdnet article (Score:1)
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Right in the ZDNET article.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2018/09/06/helping-customers-shift-to-a-modern-desktop/
zdnet article / slightly OT (Score:2)
Also in the linked article:
another link to a new support policy for Windows 10: https://wwwmicrosoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2018/09/06/helping-customers-shift-to-a-modern-desktop/ [wwwmicrosoft.com]. Quote:
All currently supported feature updates of Windows 10 Enterprise and Education editions (versions 1607, 1703, 1709, and 1803) will be supported for 30 months from their original release date. This will give customers on those versions more time for change management as they move to a faster update cycle.
All future feature updates of Windows 10 Enterprise and Education editions with a targeted release month of September (starting with 1809) will be supported for 30 months from their release date. This will give customers with longer deployment cycles the time they need to plan, test, and deploy.
All future feature updates of Windows 10 Enterprise and Education editions with a targeted release month of March (starting with 1903) will continue to be supported for 18 months from their release date. This maintains the semi-annual update cadence as our north star and retains the option for customers that want to update twice a year.
All feature releases of Windows 10 Home, Windows 10 Pro, and Office 365 ProPlus will continue to be supported for 18 months (this applies to feature updates targeting both March and September).
So if you develop anything using "feature updates", your guaranteed support time on Windows 10 shrinks to 30 months on Enterprise and 18 months on Professional and Home. The Microsoft website does not say if security updates will be supplied longer than 30/18 months for those features. I guess the original promise of 1
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Don't count on ten usefulness years on Redhat. The security space moves much too quickly. They'll patch most obvious exploits but don't count on getting an 'A' at Qualsys on an 8-year-old version of RHEL.
Debian stable will do as well or better and it's much easier to upgrade incrementally (e.g. Apache 2.4). RHEL's "software collections" is an insane hack around their inability to modernize the RPM space ten years ago.
They're "cloud crazy" now while neglecting essential infrastructure because it's "too h
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Wait just a second....
You are bashing RHEL- but ran a Fedora shop? Fedora is not an Enterprise OS. It's RHEL's beta.
Do you have any direct experience running a RHEL shop? I do- and I could not disagree with you more.
This isn't a knock against Debian. I use it. It's good. But in a corporate environment RHEL is a first pick since it's stable, security patches are backported, and an admin can bring in out of stream software sets through yum repos or compiling from source.
Add to that the fact that you can have
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What was unique about RedHat's handling of Spectre and Meltdown?
Why are people not upgrading? (Score:1)
If it's about the spyware and malware in Windows, all those patches are pushed to 7 just as they are to 8 and 10.
Why do you stick with Windows 7?
Re:Why are people not upgrading? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because you have some crappy bit of unsupported proprietary software that doesn't run on windows 10 and will cost a bucket load to replace.
Re:Why are people not upgrading? (Score:5, Insightful)
because they don't want to give up control of THEIR hardware or the software they've PAID FOR
because they don't want to be 'the product' forced to view advertisements, have sponsored apps shoved up their asses, or be spied on BY A FUCKING OPERATING SYSTEM, or have that same operating system download updates willy-nilly, which OFTEN IRREPARABLY BREAKS THE SYSTEM or uses up precious data quotas resulting in overage charges.
an operating system should, i dunno, OPERATE THE SYSTEM.. and JUST THAT.. i know, what a novel and retro concept... nothing else; not be a damn revenue stream and avenue for spying.
Re:Why are people not upgrading? (Score:5, Interesting)
You nailed it. I run Monte Carlo simulations of electron induced X-ray microanalysis spectra. These can run for hours. I want control of my CPU cycles and don't want some update starting without my explicit permission. I have a friend who runs a big microanalysis lab. A rececent MS update broke DCOM and won't let his microanalysis computer talk to the microscope computer. We know of at least one other system with this problem. These are $1M+ systems...
My community does CPU-intensive work and we want control of OUR computers. We understand the need for antivirus/spyware software and are willing to use it. We don't want our OS to treat us like idiots and BE the spyware... We want to give explicit permission for the OS to phone home...
Re: Why are people not upgrading? (Score:1)
Maybe you should have a competent IT Administartor? Windows in a domain environment should not be running updates until your WSUS server, which is free and co trolled by your administrator, tells it to. Further they should have additional policies to set the active hours to prevent reboots, flag it not to reboot when people are logged in, and a myriad of other settings configured.
So you are either full of shit, donâ(TM)t know what you are talking about, or just repeating what other idiots say.
Hate in W
Re: Why are people not upgrading? (Score:1)
You can't stupid Win10 from forced rebooting without Enterprise.
You can't buy Enterprise for a single system.
For instrument control (and other applications) Win10 is an abomination.
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Well, if I need a IT administrator, a Windows Domain environment and a carefully managed WSUS server to stop my Windows PC from misbehaving then I'm going to hate Windows.
I think my reasons for hate are "real" enough and reasonable.
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I think sometimes that a lot of applications people do not understand software lifecycles and do no planning or budgeting beyond initial acquisition and then expect IT to clean up their mess.
Microsoft's strategy of "pay for your lack of planning" is a perfect market-based solution and I fully support it. Only at a few enlightened companies do internal IT operations work that way. Mostly IT people are just shit upon and expected to work unpaid overtime for people who fuck up and take off for the weekend.
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No, usually it's when management decides that 'cloud' versions of services that really should be local are good ideas because it saves a little money short-term. The only thing retained by IT is responsibility for all the user-confusion, down-time, and mysterious transient failures that they now have no control over whatsoever.
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And maybe some of those computers should be on a VLAN with no Internet access in the first place, since they are not acting as general purpose computers. No updates, no major malware vector. Sometimes a computer is only there to run one program
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My community does CPU-intensive work and we want control of OUR computers. We understand the need for antivirus/spyware software and are willing to use it. We don't want our OS to treat us like idiots and BE the spyware... We want to give explicit permission for the OS to phone home...
Why do you even need spyware and virus protection on systems like this. These systems should be self contained and not connected to a public network. The only updates and software installs should come through a dedicated channel and not just off the net. Just anyone shouldn't be allowed to install and run software on systems like this.
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Ya, a lot of systems running XP and Windows 7 are not on a network, don't even have the horsepower to upgrade in many cases. Doesn't stop the IT crowd from insisting they need upgrading.
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I feel your pain. Microscopy and imaging guy here. Almost all proprietary software written for microscopes in based on Windows. And there are good reasons why this is so. Windows software benefits from libraries, a cohesive development environment, libraries, and DirectX for visualization.
And the cost of a Windows license is trivial in these >1M€ systems.
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Un-install spectre and meltdown patches and they will work again. Broke my cnc machine too, THANKS MICROSOFT
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Chances are, he didn't build the production environment at all. He just has to use what has already been purchased and made available.
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I'm very interested in your situation. Buggy in WINE too? Also, have you considered building up a minimalist Win7PE environment to run in a VM in Linux? It's quite possible to construct a purpose built Windows environment that can be isolated in VM that never needs to be updated or run antivirus.
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Okay, I'll bite. What makes you say "windows 7" is better? Better than what?
Re: Why are people not upgrading? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well USB and built in firewall for one :-)
Old geeks remember only the good times of the good old days. Not NT4 required a ps2 to USB adapter and Windows 2000 required a reboot when you unplug a mouse as it's not plug n play or that your system was 0wned without blackice firewall software etc.
XP was a security nightmare too!
Windows 7 was gorgeous and had improved security and was light enough to run on an atom.
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Agreed. I'm more thinking though where the vendor of the software no longer exists and as an organisation you have limited IT capabilities.
Wrong and simplistic. (Score:3)
I have a "crappy bit of unsupported proprietary software that doesn't run on windows 10 and will cost a bucket load to replace" is something that I wrote for my company that requires Bluetooth data support with proper com port operation which was rewritten for Windows 10 and was not fully tested. I complained for literally years to Microsoft (https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware-winpc/how-do-i-delete-the-unused-com-ports-in-windows-10/9f25e5ca-35a7-4c9c-a892-a4be660eb2fe be
Re:Wrong and simplistic. (Score:4)
Because Windows is a dumpster fire and if you don't keep up you're going to get pwned sooner or later causing everybody else all kinds of problems from malware infections to identity theft.
Sure, YOU can drink and drive responsibly, it's just everybody else who cannot. I mean "run unpatched Windows".
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Because you have some crappy bit of unsupported proprietary software that doesn't run on windows 10 and will cost a bucket load to replace.
Yes but you're outside of the statistics then. Your PC with some crappy unsupported proprietary display driver isn't the one browsing the internet and leaving your footprints in server logs for the statisticians to spit out is it?
If it is... You are going to have a more expensive problem on your hands when support ends.
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Wrong end of the market.
Think in house CRM or other random business app that had the vendor vanish 5 years ago. All 25 people in the business need access to said crap pile to work. Cost of a replacement option is eye watering because of how vendor locked the data is. So there are 25 users on win 7 instead of 10 right there.
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Again if it's not connected to the internet then you don't have a problem. If you are connected to the internet then it would be cheaper to upend your business than have it upended for you by an unsupported system open to the elements.
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Agreed. But win 7 is still supported currently. So the crunch hasn't come yet
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Corproate planning in a nutshell :-)
Exactly this. (Score:2)
With an emphasis on "crappy".
Though I will also say that this quote from MS: "99 percent of existing Windows 7 apps are compatible with new Windows 10 updates" is also complete BS, or at least disingenuous.
I have at least one project that falls into this bucket, where in anticipation of all of this, we have to try and figure out how to replace these apps. The problem isn't Windows 10 really. The problem is that most of the programs out there that run on Windows 7 are running on the 32bit version of Windows
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No, because now they are force-bundled. The occasional high profile security patch aside, Microsoft is now bundling patches into roll-ups and you have to install the lot, then go back and remove telemetry with remove_crw or similar.
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You could't find the trivial solution for this? Sad actually.
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This is the complaint of a home user, not an enterprise user.
And a home user can still install the EU enterprise build if they want. Who wouldn't, really?
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With Windows 7, you can choose not to install the spyware junk updates and get just security ones or even none at all. I imagine a lot of professionally managed organisations and a few power users have done exactly that.
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Well, that would break quite a lot of laws in quite a lot of countries, as well as putting them in direct conflict with quite a lot of governments. So no, I'm pretty sure Microsoft aren't really going to do that.
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It works and it keeps working. Changing is expensive and time consuming - training, upgrading machines, getting new software, finding replacements for old software, etc. So Microsoft needs to supply a REASON to upgrade here, something in the new version that is worth the time and effort.
Especially for those who aren't Enterprise or Pro who have to put up with all the nasty tricks Microsoft loves to pull on its customers.
Misleading headline (Score:1)
This gotta be changed to "Windows 7 Will Get Updates for Three More Years after 2020 -- If You Pay". 7 is still supported you know.
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Still supported. Yet another reason to not upgrade yet. I don't understand the need for some people to upgrade instantly when there's a newer product when the older one is still working just fine. People act like Windows 7 is archaic and ready to fall apart... I did see some major companies start swapping to Windows 10 the first month is was available, which seems highly risky to me.
Meanwhile, we're told at work by IT to not upgrade to OSX High Sierra because of known issues. Why in the Mac world is it
Idea (Score:2)
Microsoft needs to stop messing about (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft needs to stop messing about (Score:5, Insightful)
I wasted SIX HOURS updating a laptop yesterday.
And yet, you're still using Windows. At this point, Microsoft knows that they own you and your laptop. Why should they care what you want when they know you will keep paying and promoting them regardless of what they do to you?
Don't count on it. (Score:2)
At this point, Microsoft knows that they own you and your laptop. Why should they care what you want when they know you will keep paying and promoting them regardless of what they do to you?
They should be very careful about making that assumption. As I've said here a number of times, I got a Macbook Air in 2014 and it has been the best laptop I've ever owned - the only thing I would complain about with it is Microsoft Office for Mac, it's not as compatible with Windows Office as Microsoft would like you to think and is actually less user friendly than Windows Office. I've been using it less and less and going with the Mac (and Chrome) equivalents more and more.
If Microsoft thinks they own me
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Pretty much this.
It doesn't apply to me, but those poor people who can't jump ship for whatever reason are under Microsoft's thumb.
Every laptop I've successfully[*] migrated to Linux has performed significantly better than under Windows. The general rule is, the lower the specs, the wider the difference.
Some clowns, for example, are still trying to peddle Windows 10 netbooks on 32GB SSDs. Now while Windows 10 can be cut down to *only* about 16 GB, but wait a couple of months of updates and it will be near
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And yet, you're still using Windows. At this point, Microsoft knows that they own you and your laptop. Why should they care what you want when they know you will keep paying and promoting them regardless of what they do to you?
Because Microsoft keeps dropping hints about Windows as a Service. People will put up with a whole lot of pain, but everybody has a breaking point, and for a lot of people, that point is going to end up being "money to run a my other programs". There are plenty of people who have been willing to pay $99 a year for Office, but with Google Docs and LibreOffice both being free and 'good enough' for lots of people, renewal money won't be the gravy train MS thinks it will be for users who don't use the suite reg
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I wasted SIX HOURS updating a laptop yesterday.
I suggest next time running the update on a laptop instead of a potato. Even MS's full updates don't take my 6 year old laptop more than 30min to apply.
If Microsoft doesn't do this it can deal with people using Windows 7 and even XP into the late 2020s.
Where's the threat? For Microsoft they have two scenarios: 1) No effect at all since they will no longer support those people. 2) Additional monthly income they didn't have before.
Well, I guess they have to park (Score:3)
the low producers somewhere. May as well use them to keep obsolete stuff alive. Can you imagine working at MS and being in a department whose task is to keep Win 7 running? I wonder if they'll be putting suicide netting around the buildings like Foxconn did...
Maybe that's how MS gets rid of people they decide are finished. Instead of firing them, they just put them to work on Win 7 and let nature take its course.
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Instead of firing them, they just put them to work on Win 7 and let nature take its course.
Given the clusterfuck of the ever changing Windows 10 UI that sounds like a promotion to me.
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So many things in Microsoft the last few years that I really think they've downsized the few things they were doing right.
Don't do it. Upgrade. (Score:2)
You're just delaying the inevitable. Debian 9, Ubuntu 16, RHEL 7... you even have the free choice of what to upgrade to.
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EoL isn't the real issue here, the issue is you are going to become a prime target for malware authors.
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Call me when Linux natively supports all the software I use on a daily basis.
Hi, I too have impossible to meet standards and demands! That's what makes me so cool and unique! #EveryWintardEver
We stopped patching Win7 2+ yrs ago when EULA chan (Score:4, Interesting)
We stopped patching Win7 2+ yrs ago when the EULA changed to allow their spying and when MSFT stopped saying what each patch was for.
It just became too hard to deal with MSFT.
We had little choice. MSFT decided to fire us by forcing things into the agreement we just couldn't agree with.
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So, your W7 machines have security holes now. Why not just change to something else like Linux that is supported?
STILL not using Linux? (Score:1, Informative)
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"Thank you sir. May I have another?"
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Re: STILL not using Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)
"The fact that people continue to use Microsoft products is mind-boggling."
Not nearly as mind-boggling as the folks who can't seem to grasp the fact that not all professional software runs on Linux or Mac OS.
Talking about software that costs more than the hardware it runs upon. Yanno, stuff you can't easily replace because it's cost prohibitive.
Thus, the reason folks continue to use what they use and will continue to do so until ALL of their daily use software applications have a native Linux or Mac OS choice.
It's really not that difficult.
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It boggles your mind that there is software and drivers support that is dependent on an OS? Are you new to this whole "computer" thing?
So ordinary users will have to pirate them? (Score:4, Insightful)
That is a sad state of affairs. After all, security updates fix defects in their product. It is not as if they are improving anything, it is that they fix the mess they created. To ask for money for that is unacceptable, and to exclude ordinary users is even more unacceptable.
New Microsoft, Rent Seeking (Score:2)
Lets be honest, Microsoft has gone past peak. They have been desperately looking for a new business model and this is just another attempt to look at another money stream.
I guarantee that if this works to any degree, all versions of Windows will follow this model in the future, with shorter and shorter timelines. I guess I have been lucky to not really have problems with Windows, on the other hand I always turned off their auto-updates. If Microsoft convinces people to migrate to the cloud (for Office pr
Secure or not is not really the issue. (Score:3)
I paid handsomely for the OS I am running.
Now I have to pay them again to fix their fuckups?!!!
That is not how it works for cars, if there is something wrong with a car they recall it.
This aligns with M$'s intended income path and converts a product that was paid in full for into a subscription.
Just like cable TV told us there would be no commercials.......
*SPIT*
I never understood this (Score:2)
A vendor sells a fundamentally flawed unsafe product. Then refuses to take responsibility for at the very least fixing security problems at their own cost publically known to endanger users.
I don't understand how they get away with this or why they are even allowed to.
In other industries vendors would be successfully sued to oblivion for such refusals.
Failings in Windows 10 (Score:2)
The only solid advantages that Windows 10 brought: A black quick-launch bar, and mounted drive disk checks. Did I mention that the quicklaunch bar is black?
Cost? (Score:2)
I'm sure that there would be volume discounts, but still -- unless there are software incompatibility issues, it's often cheaper in the long run to just upgrade.
(Heck, for the $1,200 it cost to drag alo
Not so fast (Score:1)
M$ may say it is going to do this but when the raeg comes and Win 7 fanbois threaten to jump to Ubuntu will they be persuaded to do otherwise?
Perhaps a ad-financed edition of Old Number 7?
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Re: IE11 (Score:2)
MS plans to remove IE in Windows 10 around 2020. It's on the way out.
Re: IE11 (Score:2)
This is 2018 not 2008.
Corporate desktops today have Firefox or Chrome in addition to IE. Not all, but 85% of them. You think you're the only programmer eho said fuck this I won't support IE anymore?
Many third party corporate apps require Chrome.
It is safe to put a banner warning IE will end support 2019 with a link to Chrome. By next year Windows 7 will be much smaller and those who pay for 2023 support will be a tiny sliver to ignore.
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How is January 2020 to January 2023 four years?
If you pay you have a little over four years of support left, today to January 2023. It's the time window you have left if you want to create and execute a migration plan. So the headline is not technically false...
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Re:CIA (Score:5, Funny)
I knew Terry Davis wasn't really dead.
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Well, they could open source it and then enterprises can hire contractors to maintain it.