Amazon Plants Fake Packages In Delivery Trucks As Part of Undercover Ploy To 'Trap' Drivers Stealing (businessinsider.com) 236
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Business Insider: Amazon uses fake packages to catch delivery drivers who are stealing, according to sources with knowledge of the practice. The company plants the packages -- internally referred to as "dummy" packages -- in the trucks of drivers at random. The dummy packages have fake labels and are often empty.
Here's how the practice works, according to the sources: During deliveries, drivers scan the labels of every package they deliver. When they scan a fake label on a dummy package, an error message will pop up. When this happens, drivers might call their supervisors to address the problem, or keep the package in their truck and return it to an Amazon warehouse at the end of their shift. Drivers, in theory, could also choose to steal the package. The error message means the package isn't detected in Amazon's system. As a result, it could go unnoticed if the package were to go missing. "If you bring the package back, you are innocent. If you don't, you're a thug," said Sid Shah, a former manager for DeliverOL, a courier company that delivers packages for Amazon.
Here's how the practice works, according to the sources: During deliveries, drivers scan the labels of every package they deliver. When they scan a fake label on a dummy package, an error message will pop up. When this happens, drivers might call their supervisors to address the problem, or keep the package in their truck and return it to an Amazon warehouse at the end of their shift. Drivers, in theory, could also choose to steal the package. The error message means the package isn't detected in Amazon's system. As a result, it could go unnoticed if the package were to go missing. "If you bring the package back, you are innocent. If you don't, you're a thug," said Sid Shah, a former manager for DeliverOL, a courier company that delivers packages for Amazon.
now that everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
well, since the cat is out of the bag, only idiots will be caught.
Re: now that everyone knows (Score:2)
But, as soon as the driver scans the package, it *is* in the system, simply by having been scanned.
Now, the driver knows the system knows he has the package, so he has to account for it.
This clever trick must only catch the very clueless thieves.
How do they distinguish the "dummy" packages from real ones with the wrong item in them, or the ones that are "lost". Those always seem to be mine.
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I've heard of people not RTFA but not reading the summary is a new one. It clearly states the scanner produces an error (because the package is Not in the system... it's a fake package).
Another reason the scanner produces an error is because Amazon doesn't want drivers to leave a bunch of empty boxes laying around..... they want the box to come back (hence the error generation).
Re: now that everyone knows (Score:5, Informative)
Just because the scanner "produces an error" does not mean that it does not also record the number of the scanned package, and who scanned it.
Betcha that package number goes into "the system" as soon as it's scanned, thereby providing evidence that the driver had it in his hands at a particular time.
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> package number goes into "the system" as soon as it's scanned
Are the scanners error proof? If they occasionally mis read and get a invalid number, then this action doesn't make sense.
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The barcodes for logistics systems-- and especially for 2D barcodes-- have a lot of redundancy and error-checking. The error rate is somewhere between "almost never" for the worst logistics barcode systems (maybe 1 a year) to "really never" (less than 1 at present rates of scanning for the lifetime of the universe).
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Re:now that everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
well, since the cat is out of the bag, only idiots will be caught.
Not the point. Amazon doesn't care if you don't steal because you are honest or if you don't steal because you know you will get caught. They only care if you deliver your packages. It's much simpler to prevent crime than to punish it.
Re:now that everyone knows (Score:4, Informative)
But this is only one way to steal. There are many other ways, such as taking a package to the porch, scanning it, so the GPS-enabled scanner marks it as "delivered", and then taking the package back to the truck. Then, just before returning to the distribution center, stash the sack of stolen boxes in the bushes to pick up later.
The point of the "fake package" ploy is to identify those likely to steal. By publicizing it, they make it less effective at catching dishonest drivers.
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If they're clever enough to plant fake packages, and clever enough to "accidentally" let it slip they're doing so as a deterrent, they're likely clever enough to put a hidden camera in the truck, which will record the driver bringing the package they claim to have just delivered back to the truck.
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Violation of federal labor law. This isn't Uber we are talking about here, so probably not.
Re:now that everyone knows (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually in the case of delivery drivers, cameras mounted all around and inside the cargo area for security reasons, quite reasonable, just not the drivers compartment. Really the cheapest thing to do, data storage is pretty cheap, recording it pretty cheap, and problem solved. Keep the videos records for thirty days post delivery to resolve any delivery disputes, overall a pretty sound solution, video record all deliveries, done and finished.
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For cameras openly mounted in the vehicle, sure. The parent post specified hidden camera unknown to the employee though which is a different legal and ethical situation.
Re:now that everyone knows (Score:5, Informative)
Violation of federal labor law.
No, it is not a violation of federal labor law.
It may be a violation of state law, depending on your state: Connecticut and Delaware ban hidden cameras.
Video surveillance of employees is generally legal.
Audio surveillance is generally illegal without notification.
Video surveillance is illegal if there is an expectation of privacy, such as in a restroom.
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They can put it in the contract or Bid-Out process
that specified surveillance cameras with capabilities provided by Amazon specifications must be installed and operational at all times in the manner specified by Amazon's Asset Protection monitoring team while any Amazon package is in the vehicle or the vehicle is working for Amazon covering the driver's cabin, back of the truck, and cover all areas of the vehicle where packages may be handled.
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Great. So your point is just to give up, because really there's no way to stop all theft?
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Re: now that everyone knows (Score:2)
I ordered a wireless mouse, received a ball of twine.
Amazon was good about replacing it, but insisted I return the ball of twine and threatened to charge me for the mouse they didn't ship if I failed to do so.
No, this does not make any sense.
The second mouse arrived, and they acknowledged receipt of the ball of twine and credited me for the missing mouse.
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That happens with Modafinil all the time.
Modafinil is a Schedule-IV controlled substance with no physical dependence or other addictive nature, no long-term health effects from long-term use (study used 3 years, 56 hours awake, 8 hours asleep, then immediate discontinuation and return to regular sleeping cycle), and no abuse by overuse potential (taking extra makes you feel like shit). It also has been shown not a medical emergency if someone takes 50 pills at once (this has happened a LOT: a teenager
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Now they just need to introduce fake packages that scan OK without an error and are intended to be delivered to "Decoy houses" , offices, and mailboxes that exist solely to receive and confirm that fake packages were properly delivered.
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You're never going to stop serious thieves entirely in any case, but minimising losses is just something that businesses have to do.
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The point of the "fake package" ploy is to identify those likely to steal. By publicizing it, they make it less effective at catching dishonest drivers.
By publicizing it, they get the deterrent even if they don't actually plant the fake packages.
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I also wonder why Amazon doesn't deliver the fake packages to someone's house? I mean, if I lived in an area reporting 'lost' parcels, then Amazon could just ask me if I wouldn't mind accepting a free gift or something (some sort of gift that requires I register it when I open the box). That way they'd have actual end-to-end testing.
Besides, I though Amazon just swapped out delivery companies/people if their stats weren't good enough? I'd have thought a few lost parcels would qualify, wouldn't it?
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This suggestion checks out in a world where rich people dont steal, and yet...
But do they steal at a lower rate than the poor? If the rate of theft is lower, and savings from shrinkage and reshipping costs is still higher than wages then is it economical viable to do so?
Re: now that everyone knows (Score:4, Interesting)
This suggestion checks out in a world where rich people dont steal, and yet...
But do they steal at a lower rate than the poor? If the rate of theft is lower, and savings from shrinkage and reshipping costs is still higher than wages then is it economical viable to do so?
The richer you are, the more the risks of getting caught outweigh the potential gain
If you are homeless and starving, you're not going to care if you get caught and put in a cell overnight and given a bowl of soup, a bread roll and a stern talking to.
But if you're a lawyer or doctor and you find a wallet with a couple of hundred cash in it in the street, the (very small) risk of getting caught if you pocket it is massively multiplied by the negative impact if you are caught, get a trivial fine, but lose your career, house, etc.
If you're even moderately well off, the reward part of the reward/risk calculation has to be pretty big to make crime worthwhile.
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Why do delivery drivers leave packages on people's porches?
Because it's cheaper.
If you require a person to person contact (which is basically what signed-for packages seem to imply, there doesn't seem to be any requirement for the person signing to be the recipiant) to hand off the package then your delivery provider may need to make multiple delivery attempts. If you are prepared to have your package left without a person to person contact then the delivery provider only has to make one attempt. That translates into signature required services being more expensive
Re:now that everyone knows (Score:5, Funny)
Amazon doesn't care if you don't steal because you are honest or if you don't steal because you know you will get caught.
Sounds just like God.
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Amazon doesn't care if you don't steal because you are honest or if you don't steal because you know you will get caught.
Sounds just like God.
If the only thing keeping one from being a criminal is the threat of eternal torture I will question their morality.
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well, since the cat is out of the bag, only idiots will be caught.
I would suggest that is the reason this is a story, so everyone knows. It is probably most valuable as a tale told at the depot, 'you know they have dummy packages that are out to get you if you mess up'. It keeps people in line thinking that the man is watching for a mistake (when it was really probably a coding error somewhere)
Re:now that everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
I would suggest that they don't actually have to have every actually planted any fake packages, because 99.999% of the benefit of the whole idea is in the story that they do.
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I had the same thought. It's great that they're doing something to prevent it, but now the whole prevention method is broken.
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Right, so rather than actually wasting the effort to set up such a system and get those packages on trucks they just have to have "sources" tell the media they do that for probably a larger reduction in theft.
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What kind of an idiot posts this gibberish under a named account?
Yeah, that account totally isn't a throwaway or anything.
Amazon's own delivery service (Score:2)
I'm glad they're doing something, because their delivery service is horrible right now. Missing packages, packages that take a week to have a status report, drivers who couldn't find their ass with both hands, nevermind a condo. Amazon instantly went from my #1 stop for shopping online to last because the only delivery option in the area seems to be their shipper. It's so bad that if I can't find it anywhere else ( including venturing outside, which tells you how desperate I've become ), I seriously wond
Re:Amazon's own delivery service (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't have a problem with timing (maybe due to Prime), but I do have a problem with drivers literally throwing packages several feet. It hasn't happened on the last two deliveries, but my home office is right by the front door and I could hear packages hitting and tumbling, and they'd be scattered across the porch. Looking outside, the driver would be almost back to his truck. I once went to get some kind of ID so I could report it, but the driver completely ignored me. I got the plate number and reported it to the company and to Amazon. Didn't get a follow-up from either one, though.
Re: Amazon's own delivery service (Score:4, Insightful)
Well... They are paid so little that they need food stamps, are scheduled for 1-2 hours less that full time to avoid paying for their health insurance, and are scheduled to deliver enough packages to take up all their time if they never eat or pee. What do you expect?
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Well... They are paid so little that they need food stamps, are scheduled for 1-2 hours less that full time to avoid paying for their health insurance ...
The same can be said for most Walmart employees ...
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Walmart employees, however, don't hover around in the parking lot and steal merchandise from my cart as I'm putting it in the car.
Re: Amazon's own delivery service (Score:5, Funny)
Walmart employees, however, don't hover around in the parking lot and steal merchandise from my cart as I'm putting it in the car.
Well don't you live in a fancy area then?
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Agreed, but treating your employees no worse that Walmart is not exactly a ring endorsement of social consciousness.
Re: Amazon's own delivery service (Score:4, Insightful)
Well... They are paid so little that they need food stamps, are scheduled for 1-2 hours less that full time to avoid paying for their health insurance, and are scheduled to deliver enough packages to take up all their time if they never eat or pee. What do you expect?
Lesson: if you are unhappy with your employment, you should damage others' property. Because it will help you.
Re: Amazon's own delivery service (Score:5, Interesting)
They simply don't have the time to glad hand your packages. If they place them instead of throw them they won't meet their delivery schedule. Also, they are probably too tired and unhappy to care.
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Be grateful they're only unhappy enough with their employment to just toss packages. My guess is that the next iteration of unhappy employment involves burning those packages in a giant pile someplace, and the one after that involves rich people lined up against a wall.
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health insurance is 29 hours and the drivers are on the road 8+ hours a day.
Re: Amazon's own delivery service (Score:4, Insightful)
"Which is exactly what we predicted when congress passed ObamaCare, requiring full time employees be covered. Well, now we have a bunch of professions that no longer work full time"
If by "we", you mean the people who said implement Medicare-for-all instead of that convoluted gladhanding to the insurance industry, then yes, this is exactly what "we" predicted.
Re: Amazon's own delivery service (Score:5, Informative)
>. Well, now we have a bunch of professions that no longer work full time"
Except it didn't happen. The number of part time employees has been slowly decreasing since ObamaCare passed.
https://tradingeconomics.com/u... [tradingeconomics.com]
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Outside the USA, back in the day (90s):
We had full Benefits started at 30hrs;
Proportional benefits for anythnig below that.
work 15hrs a week, company has to accrue vacation at 50% legal mandate, cover 50% of insurance coverage (these PT employees must be allowed to be on the same plans), pay for 50% of other benefits offered to FT employees.
The rules changed since, with the introduction of new benefits, fully nationalized health care, etc.
The USA would be best to put in such a system. Benefits start at 30h
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There's more benefits than just insurance.
Vacation, pension/401k and bonuses all come to mind
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Well, now we have a bunch of professions that no longer work full time, simply because idiots can't figure out how their stupid ideas would be handled by businesses.
It looks like U-6 and U-5 have been falling slightly faster than U-3 [macrotrends.net], which is the opposite of what you said.
Yes, it bewilders me, too. I've suggested a partial subsidy to make up the difference (e.g. 50% of the employer's healthcare costs incurred for a non-full-time employee for the portion represented by the hours discounted from full-time). That would encourage full-time employment, but reduce the impact: maybe you have a 20-hour worker and the $6,800/year healthcare costs are now subsidized by $1,
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Which is exactly what we predicted when congress passed ObamaCare, requiring full time employees be covered. Well, now we have a bunch of professions that no longer work full time, simply because idiots can't figure out how their stupid ideas would be handled by businesses.
Well, that is what happens when you have to pander to the republicans to get something passed. Honestly, I think the republicans congress inhabitants knew their changes would do that. They just didn't care.
Re:Amazon's own delivery service (Score:4)
Why does it matter? If the item is damaged, you're not obligated to pay for it. U.S. Law is written to protect the customer from getting screwed by mail-order companies like amazon (or their delivery agents)
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Why does it matter? If the item is damaged, you're not obligated to pay for it.
I order stuff because I need it. If I order a router that arrives broken, sure I can get it replaced, but I am still without a router for a week.
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The problem with this multi-layered, outsourced internet economy is that there's just about zero accountability for shitty service or products anymore.
I barely blame the delivery guys for not giving a shit considering how little they get paid and the crushing scheduling/travel burden imposed by Amazon.
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Progressive desensitization at Amazon HQ? (Score:2)
If Amazon customer service and delivery quality is decreasing over time, wonder if this increasingly applies?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me) is a non-fiction book by social psychologists Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson, first published in 2007. It deals with cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias and other cognitive biases, using these psychological theories to illustrate how the perpetrators (and victims) of hurtful acts justify and rationalize their behavior. It descr
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I'm glad they're doing something, because their delivery service is horrible right now.
No kidding. Every AMZN delivery is an adventure in frustration.
Just a few days ago I had a package which was supposedly delivered, but I didn’t receive it. The delivery picture was enlightening:
1) The text was “package left in a secure location”, although the photo showed the package in a bag hanging on a large driveway gate.
2) The pictured house behind the gate wasn’t my house - I don’t have a gate on my driveway.
Amazon did quickly refund the cost to me once I complained... bu
but with unknowing item and 1099's drivers (Score:2)
but with unknowing item and 1099's drivers what if at end of shit they don't drive back till next day? Or do they have to drive back and can't drive home at the end and just drive from home to the depot at the start of the day.
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Not always. Lasership (AMZN) drivers also still use personal vehicles when package traffic is high. At least in SoFL
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They use company vehicles, so almost certainly have to drive back to the depot.
Nope. There are 4 or 5 very large, very obnoxious FedEx vehicles parked on my street at any given time at midnight. The drivers use them as their personal vehicles, then go to the depot, load up, drive around tossing packages at doors, then park them on the street when going home.
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FedEx may have different rules, but Amazon contracts with a lot of small companies. Those are the type that normally don't want their vehicles going home with clients.
OTOH, FedEx always delivers my packages right to the door itself with a courtesy knock or doorbell. Same driver almost every time.
Why would you steal an empty package? (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems really odd that someone would steal a package so light you could basically tell it was empty. Maybe they think they are getting some kind of small electronics? At least put a brick in there Amazon.
Re:Why would you steal an empty package? (Score:5, Funny)
Those packages weren't "empty", they were my scientific atmosphere samples, you insensitive clod!
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- While the driver is delivering a DIFFERENT package, a local thug sneaks into the truck and takes the dummy package. The driver is innocent, but now he will get fired for being a victim.
- The package falls out of the truck while in transit. Potholes are a bitch!
- The driver delivers the dummy package, but before the recipient gets to it, it is stolen by a local thief. The driver is innocent, but gets fired because of circumstance.
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If Amazon were shipping diamonds I'm pretty sure it would be in a thin bubble envelope, pre-mangled with a small hole punched in it.
At least that would match the quality of previous packing jobs I've seen them do.
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Our company CEO ordered a jug of laundry detergent from Amazon for his college-age son. (don't judge) It was delivered here at work and I happened to be there when it showed up, leaking. I felt sorry for the receptionist, so I checked the address to find out who the idiot was who'd ordered it and dumped the whole thing in the sink, where I opened the soggy cardboard box and proceeded to start rinsing the detergent off the jug .
Amazon had put a shrink-wrap sleeve over the detergent jug (which did nothing to
Note to self: tell drones to steal fake packages (Score:2)
1. Amazon puts fake label packages in truck.
2. Driver delivers package.
3. When delivery permiter tripped, drone flies into truck during delivery, while fake dogs engage delivery person.
4. Package with fake label searched for by drone.
5. Package located.
6. Drone "borrows" fake label package.
7. Profit!
I'm reminded of (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're wondering why this feels like entrapment even though legally it's not; it's because Amazon treats their workers badly enough (and keeps them financially desperate enough) that temping them with something so minor is enough to push them over the edge. Want people to stop risking their jobs and jail time for what's maybe a $20 package? Pay them enough to live.
Re: I'm reminded of (Score:2)
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Can't help but help themselves to your stuff!!! (Score:2)
this [vox.com].
If you're wondering why this feels like entrapment even though legally it's not; it's because Amazon treats their workers badly enough (and keeps them financially desperate enough) that temping them with something so minor is enough to push them over the edge. Want people to stop risking their jobs and jail time for what's maybe a $20 package? Pay them enough to live.
Poverty does not cause crime. That's an excuse you use for people whose morals are lacking. I saw your linked article (from a website founded by a noted liar, Matthew Yglesias [wordpress.com]). What's so hard about not stealing from a truck? There's a truck there? It's not yours? Keep walking! Feel bad about police bait? Well.... don't take it. They're not selling Nikes for food.
When you make excuses for the degenerate and criminal, you spit on all the people who have been poor and harmed no one. You can do your own intern
Amazon driver stole UPS pkg from me (Score:2)
An Amazon driver stole UPS pkg from my house. Unlucky for them my cameras caught the event. UPS delivered the package at around 3 and Amazon delivered another package and picked up the UPS package and took the proof of their delivery picture.
The driver and "assistant" both got caught, fired and charged. Amazon was pretty difficult to deal with getting things made right, at least until the Sheriff showed up at their facility with the pictures and license places and talked to the driver.
So amazon probabl
Pay your taxes (Score:2)
About time (Score:2)
Of the last four books I ordered through Amazon, I got... one. The rest mysteriously disappeared.
I was buying second-hand books, from various resellers (two in the US and two in the UK), and they didn't give me a tracking number, so who knows if the books were even dispatched at all, or where they got lost. I ended up buying the same book three times - the last time from Bol.com, which actually managed to get it delivered.
It's clear that ordering second hand books from Amazon is just not a winning propositi
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well (Score:2)
There's a flaw in the design. (Score:2)
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This serves to catch drivers who take an opportunity to steal something when it arises, not who are actively seeking to steal.
Seems like a pointless distinction to me. Definitely a pointless distinction legally.
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Definitely a pointless distinction legally
Legally there's no crime at all, since the package was empty.
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The box doesn't belong to the driver.
They're not doing this to file charges. They're doing this to fire dishonest drivers.
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This serves to catch drivers who take an opportunity to steal something when it arises, not who are actively seeking to steal.
Seems like a pointless distinction to me. Definitely a pointless distinction legally.
People who are serious, actives thieves will always steal, whereas if you make things a bit more difficult, you prevent a lot of opportunist crime.
Locking your house or car doors won't stop a determined thief, but it will certainly put off casual passers by from helping themselves to something they can see through the window.
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You have no idea what entrapment is, do you?
This is why people shouldn't take legal advice from anyone on /..
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It's the slightly more clever thieves who are opportunistic that are harder to catch and can probably get away with things for much longer. If a customer co
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That's not what the system says. It throws an error. Could be a problem with the barcode, could be a problem with the database entry, could be a problem with the scanner. The driver is expected to contact someone to determine how to handle it. There are procedures for it, and a driver that doesn't follow them probably shouldn't be delivering packages.
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A diamond with the weight of a gram is worth a small fortune.
And I bet you will never be able to judge with your hand if the diamond is inside or not.
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Maybe, just maybe when TFA said "empty" it meant no merchandise inside vs. literally an empty box. Because nobody at Amazon could figure out that a completely empty box is suspicious.
Re:Amazon: "We just can't trust our drivers!" (Score:4, Insightful)
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Companies that treat their employees like shit generally only have shit employees.
Loyalty is inherently a two way street. If it only goes one way, it's not loyalty, it's gullibility.
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Yap. "Distrust and verify."
(And, if you are not a total sociopath, just don't tell the people that you don't trust them; let them believe that you trust them, since it makes them feel better.)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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If you start making it very tempting to steal, I'm not sure you've caught a bad guy - just a person who wasn't thinking right in the heat of the moment.
The word for such a person is "thief."
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The only thing you've ever stolen from anyone is the shit stain in your shorts when you were typing that BS.
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Now, Thug Life = Stealing pens from the break room.
This century continues to surprise me with its patheticness.