Feds Shut Down Self-Driving School Bus Pilot In Florida 91
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration on Friday ordered the French transportation company Transdev to stop transporting schoolchildren in a self-driving vehicle in Florida. Ars Technica reports: Transdev's pilot project in Babcock Ranch, a planned community, was quite modest. On Fridays, Transdev's electric shuttle would take a group of elementary-aged children to school, then take them home later in the day. The vehicle had a safety driver on board. The route was short enough that kids walked or rode their bikes to school the other four days of the week, according to a spokeswoman for Babcock Ranch. "The shuttle travels at a top speed of 8mph, with the potential to reach speeds of 30mph once the necessary infrastructure is complete," an August press release stated.
So why did the feds shut down this project while allowing lots of others to continue with minimal oversight? NHTSA points to two factors. One is that Transdev is a French company. Different countries have different safety standards, so vehicles designed overseas often can't be used in the U.S. without special permission from U.S. regulators. NHTSA granted Transdev a temporary importation authorization to test its driverless shuttle in the United States. "Transdev requested permission to use the shuttle for a specific demonstration project, not as a school bus," NHTSA said in its Friday statement. "Transdev failed to disclose or receive approval for this use." The other issue, of course, is that the project involves kids. For obvious reasons, federal regulators are going to be extra wary of testing experimental technology on schoolchildren.
So why did the feds shut down this project while allowing lots of others to continue with minimal oversight? NHTSA points to two factors. One is that Transdev is a French company. Different countries have different safety standards, so vehicles designed overseas often can't be used in the U.S. without special permission from U.S. regulators. NHTSA granted Transdev a temporary importation authorization to test its driverless shuttle in the United States. "Transdev requested permission to use the shuttle for a specific demonstration project, not as a school bus," NHTSA said in its Friday statement. "Transdev failed to disclose or receive approval for this use." The other issue, of course, is that the project involves kids. For obvious reasons, federal regulators are going to be extra wary of testing experimental technology on schoolchildren.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
European cars in the US are built to US rules, and are somewhat different than their local-market models.
Indeed. Some of the differences can include:
- No differentiated fuel tank holes to only fit nozzles giving the right fuel.
- No key lock on the fuel cap.
- Rear fog lights are usually disconnected, because Americans have no restraint and think they should be used when visibility is more than 10m/30ft.
- No splash guards.
- No knock-off safety mirrors, hood ornaments or antennas.
- No way to manually disable airbags (like for transporting elderly or backward facing child seats)
- No orange rear blinkers.
- No war
Re: (Score:2)
Cars sold in the US also require at least 1 big gulp sized cup holder per seat.
Re: Who dafuq approved this? (Score:1)
Additionally, in the US, airbags have to be dimensioned for drivers and passengers not wearing seatbelts, while in Europe and elsewhere, they are required to be dimensioned for drivers and passengers who do.
Re: (Score:2)
Why are you listing radio frequencies and other things that wouldn't make any sense in the US?
Because on European cars, you are generally allowed to make a choice (either through menu choices or dip switches), and it only defaults to the local configuration. But if the same car is shipped to the US, that choice has to be removed. You cannot have a car-installed receiver that can receive a 87.5 FM station, even if you drive to somewhere where there is such a station.
Re: (Score:2)
European cars in the US are built to US rules, and are somewhat different than their local-market models.
Indeed. Some of the differences can include: - No differentiated fuel tank holes to only fit nozzles giving the right fuel. - No key lock on the fuel cap. - Rear fog lights are usually disconnected, because Americans have no restraint and think they should be used when visibility is more than 10m/30ft. - No splash guards. - No knock-off safety mirrors, hood ornaments or antennas. - No way to manually disable airbags (like for transporting elderly or backward facing child seats) - No orange rear blinkers. - No warning triangle or safety vests. - Yellow headlights (which penetrate fog better) are not allowed. - For older cars, no longwave radio. - For newer cars, no DAB+ radio. - For FM, only bands 9 kHz apart are available, not switchable to 10 kHz. - No Galileo satellites on the nav system, only GPS and GLONASS. Galileo has too good resolution to have been approved. - For cars with hotspot functionality, no WiFi channels 12-14 on the 2.4 GHz band. - Voice assistants are female sounding, not male. ... and commonly softer suspension and wider seats.
That just gives you a frisson of excitement to type that, doesn't it?
Re: (Score:2)
No differentiated fuel tank holes to only fit nozzles giving the right fuel.
We don't have that either. You can get the gasoline nozzle into the diesel tank. It is physically possible to do, though. You'd have to make the nozzles different shapes, not just different sizes. Round for gasoline, square for diesel, and triangular for ethanol fuels. If you make them all the right size, then none of them can fit into one another's ports. Sadly, they didn't do this anywhere in the world that I know of.
Re: (Score:2)
We did at one time. Nozzles that dispensed leaded gasoline were larger than those that dispensed unleaded. Vehicles built for unleaded fuel only had a smaller hole that wouldn't accept the larger nozzle. Even though leaded fuel hasn't been sold here for decades (think it was phased out sometime in the mid-'80s), smog-check technicians still check for the nozzle restrictor on 1975 and newer vehicles, and will fail your vehicle if it doesn't have one.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
On my BMW, the overlay text now says "Objects in the mirror are losing"...
Feds? (Score:2)
Why are the feds even involved? This isn't a issue regarding interstate commerce, which is the most disingenuous excuse they have.
Re: (Score:1)
and you think the Feds aren't involved in international commerce?
hint, they are
Re: (Score:2)
No, they have mandate to be involved in both
Go to the Dept. of Commerce web site and have a look at the international section.
Re: (Score:1)
Please STFU until you do, unless you want to continue embarrassing yourself.
Re:Feds? (Score:5, Informative)
If you'd bother to read the summary, this experiment was being run by a foreign company, making it an international affair; states do not have jurisdiction over international commerce. The foreign company apparently didn't adhere to the rules for the special driver's permit granted by the Federal Government to let their foreign software drive on US roads, so they got shut down.
Re: (Score:2)
my point was the Dept. of Commerce deals with BOTH, which seems to be lost on you. Until you learn what authority the Department of Commerce and the Federal government have in both realms, I suggest you keep your ignorant uniformed spew to yourself
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"So why did the feds shut down this project while allowing lots of others to continue...?" Why are the feds even involved? This isn't a issue regarding interstate commerce, which is the most disingenuous excuse they have.
Interstate commerce has generally been considered by the courts to include international commerce, and this is a French company doing business in Florida. If this were a Florida based company, I would agree, the feds would have no jurisdiction.
Re: (Score:2)
Even if it was a Florida based company, the NHTSA would almost certainly still have jurisdiction. You see, the federal government will often provide funding for roads, and one of the conditions of accepting that funding is that everything that happen on those roads be under the supervision of the NHTSA. And I'd be willing to bet a pay check or two that Florida has accepted federal funding for their roads.
Generally, the federal government only provides funding for the Interstate highway system, and it's unlikely this bus was on such a highway. Even then, the feds power to regulate is quire limited. A few decades ago, the federal government tried to pass a nationwide 55 mph speed limit and threatened to cut off highway funding for any states which did not comply. So many states simply turned down the funding that the program was eventually scrapped.
Re: Feds? (Score:2)
Because when the people who headed this project wondered: "what would be a perfect test bed for a new and untested technology?", They came up with the only logical answer: "a bus full of children, of course!"
What the duck?
The testing of self driving ... (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
an employee bus from Florida to France would be impressive. at 8 mph though, the journey would be a long one.
Re: The testing of self driving ... (Score:2)
And underwater now, *that* would impress me!
No mention of the bus drivers' union? (Score:1)
There is no way something like this is going to get off the ground if it takes jobs from SEIU members.
This is a terrible idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids will be running for the bus, crossing streets in front of it, etc. .
Part of the school bus driver's job is to keep kids safe both inside and outside the bus. This takes experience and awareness. I have no doubt the self driving bus can drive from point A to B. I have no confidence in it's ability to anticipate all the dumb things kids do.
Re:This is a terrible idea (Score:5, Funny)
Kids do less damage to the expensive sensors on the front of the bus when they're hit, due to their smaller size.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There's a Mad Max movie in there somewhere...
Hopefully it's Road Warrior or Fury Road and not the original or Thunderdome.
Re:This is a terrible idea (Score:4, Insightful)
What is the right automated driver response to back window 'mooning'/'pressed fruit bowls' of passing traffic? Lighting up a doobie? Getting in a fight? Bailing from the bus on a later stop? Setting off fireworks? Hanging classmate out window?
That was just first grade, first week.
Lane following etc will help the zookeeper, but the real solution is many various sized straight jackets and Lecter racks in place of seats.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The point is that for a school bus, they will never not need adult supervision, so schoolbus is a poor target for automation in any case.
Re: (Score:2)
I would draw the opposite conclusion. Self-driving school buses seem like what is needed. The vehicle drives itself while the "driver" can spend his full attention on the passengers rather than having to potentially split it.
Re: (Score:2)
Kids will be running for the bus, crossing streets in front of it, etc.
All the more reason to have this be handled by a computer system with a instantaneous 360degree view of obstructions rather than some dude driving a truck which by design severely limits his field of vision.
Re: (Score:2)
This is where you add in a Boston Dynamics style robot for the last 100 feet. Have them use robots to pickup/deliver kids right at their doorstep. Make it look a little intimidating and you can probably keep kids from goofing off on the bus too!
Re: (Score:1)
I'll always remember my bus driver when I was in elementary school. He always kept a giant yard stick on the bus. If kids got too loud, he'd slam it into the floor as loud as possible and tell everyone to quiet down.
He later lost his bus driving license due to getting a ticket for driving his motorcycle at 120mph.
Hmm.. (Score:1)
Being Trump admin I'm surprised it wasn't shut down due to the bus not being the oldest and most polluting bus available.
Luckily there is a Plan B: (Score:3)
Planned, "environmentally-sound" community? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
You didn't even read the summary.
You're a shoe in for the next open /. editor job!
Too early for children (Score:2)
Self driving is in its infancy (no pun intended) - too early to use school children as test subjects. NHTSA probably doesn't want headlines which some politicians and social outrage leaders could use to stir up public paranoia to get votes for fear-driven legislature in the name of "think of the children!".
Re: (Score:2)
Driver assist systems (which almost everybody offers in some form or another now - AutoPilot, ProPilot, SuperCruise, etc etc) are quite different from "self driving" systems like Uber and Waymo (and this company) are working towards. The difference being that the former pester you to make sure you're paying attention, while the latter try to never need to pester the "safety driver", and seek to remove them from the equation as quickly as possible.
This is the way it is, until it isn't. (Score:1)
Operating System (Score:2)
huh? (Score:1)
Self-driving cars == "picture phones" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hmmm (Score:1)
The bus in that picture looks mighty short to me. If you get my meaning.
I don't know if I'd want my kids riding on that thing because of the stigma.
Re: (Score:2)
I wish I had points :-)