Making Trains Run on Time (economist.com) 117
Plamen Angelov of the University of Lancaster, in Britain, has an idea that he hopes will make train delays rarer. From a report: Often, Dr Angelov observes, the problem is not the inefficiency of operators but the behaviour of passengers -- the "platform-train interface", to use railway parlance. When trains arrive, passengers crowd around the doors waiting to board, restricting the flow of those getting off. When they are about to depart, people often hold doors open, delaying that departure. (A recent study by Japan's Railway Bureau found that passengers attempting to board trains after their scheduled departure times accounted for almost 50% of delays.) Passengers also frequently stand too close to the carriages for safety. Waiting for malefactors to move back behind the yellow safety line on a platform might hold a train up for less than a minute. But over the course of a journey those minutes add up. Even a slight delay is compounded if it causes a train to slip out of its running order and be held at a subsequent station, or be required to follow a slower service.
Dr Angelov thinks that applying artificial intelligence to the problem might help. And that is what he and his team are doing. Using images from the cctv cameras already mounted in carriages and on platforms, their system employs algorithms that have been trained to detect objects such as people, luggage, pushchairs and bicycles. It then measures the movements and positions of these objects relative to areas such as the train doors or the yellow safety line and uses this information to predict problems. The cameras in the carriages detect how busy particular doors are getting as passengers leave their seats and gather next to the exits when the train approaches a station. At the same time, the station cameras monitor the numbers waiting for the train to arrive, whereabouts they are standing along the platform, and how encumbered they are. The two sets of data can then be compared, providing warning of likely areas of congestion. This permits passengers -- particularly those on the platform -- to be directed to doors that will be less busy.
Dr Angelov thinks that applying artificial intelligence to the problem might help. And that is what he and his team are doing. Using images from the cctv cameras already mounted in carriages and on platforms, their system employs algorithms that have been trained to detect objects such as people, luggage, pushchairs and bicycles. It then measures the movements and positions of these objects relative to areas such as the train doors or the yellow safety line and uses this information to predict problems. The cameras in the carriages detect how busy particular doors are getting as passengers leave their seats and gather next to the exits when the train approaches a station. At the same time, the station cameras monitor the numbers waiting for the train to arrive, whereabouts they are standing along the platform, and how encumbered they are. The two sets of data can then be compared, providing warning of likely areas of congestion. This permits passengers -- particularly those on the platform -- to be directed to doors that will be less busy.
Block Chain! No 6 minute abs! Quills (Score:3)
The solution to any problem is a buzzword that you know a little bit about and others are afraid they don't.
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Ah, but you're conveniently forgetting that even though utopianism has never worked, it could if we just threw enough technology at the problem [wikipedia.org].
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:2, Informative)
The solution has existed for 32 years. Automate the trains.
It works perfectly in Vancouver, not a single accident due to the computer. No, everything is certainly a suicide/accident when someone falls into the track as the train comes into the station. Computers have better reaction time than humans, which is why the track sensors work best when people aren't creating a crowding situation.
What can put an end to all delays, even in the automated system is PED's, or Platform Edge Doors. However most rail syst
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:4, Interesting)
I remember the doors on the peoplemover at Atlanta Airport in the early 80s. From what I recall, they wouldn't crush you or allow the train to depart unless the doors were completely closed... but they weren't particularly GENTLE about closing, or proactive about re-opening if you DID get caught in them. The synthesized voice would sternly shout, "Stop boarding!" three times and slam the doors shut. If you got caught in them, a flashing light would go off, you'd be loudly scolded by the same robotic voice in front of the entire train (and possibly an employee) while you were still stuck in the door, THEN the doors would momentarily slide open again (leaving you with a bruise to motivate you to move more quickly next time). I'm sure they've toned down the aggressiveness quite a bit since then, but it definitely worked... you could see the literal FEAR in people's eyes if they were anywhere NEAR the doors when the "Stop boarding!" began.
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What can put an end to all delays, even in the automated system is PED's, or Platform Edge Doors.
PEDs are just something else to go wrong and does nothing about the problem of people getting on blocking people getting off. Have you never been on a train delayed by a sliding door sticking or someone putting their foot in the way to make it wait for their friend? However many occasions that was, multiply it by two.
They purpose of PEDs is to stop people falling onto the track, and although that very occasionally (in the UK) does happen, the delays from that cause are a tiny blip in the lateness statistic
Re:The solution is obvious (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a design problem and the result of inferior design.
The best (and most expensive) way to solve this problem is to design the stations so that passengers enter on one side of the train and leave on the other. This is the way rides are designed at amusement parks to facilitate the movement of crowds.
Barring that, a system which direct passengers to debark at certain doors (such as at the front) and enter at other doors (At the back) will also work. This has been used on buses, where passengers exit at the back and enter at the front (where they pay.)
The use of AI in this case may indeed result in fewer accidents resulting from moving trains hitting passengers in exclusion zones, but it will do nothing for keeping trains on time.
Oh the irony! (Score:5, Funny)
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Among all the places I've travelled, Japan, Germany, and Switzerland stand out as near-perfect in this regard. Very, very rarely do the trains leave more than 5 seconds earlier or late. They are renowned for their punctuality. ONE time, I saw a train leave almost 60 seconds late.
If anybody else is wondering how to make their trains run on time, all they have to do is go study one of these three and copy them. Whatever they are doing, they're doing it right. They don't need AI.
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No no no. This is a serious issue. Japan is absolutely famous for its late trains and mass public apologies: https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]
Position the trains arrival (Score:2)
so that the internally crowded doors open on the sparsely populated part of the platform. Then you don't have to direct the platform passengers so much.
Re:Position the trains arrival (Score:5, Interesting)
so that the internally crowded doors open on the sparsely populated part of the platform. Then you don't have to direct the platform passengers so much.
Better yet, design train stations with "Entrance and Exit Only" platforms/sides and delay the enter door opening until people are moving out the exit door. In one side, out the other.... You end up with larger train stations, but you would decrease exiting and loading times.
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Better yet, design train stations with "Entrance and Exit Only" platforms/sides and delay the enter door opening until people are moving out the exit door. In one side, out the other.... You end up with larger train stations, but you would decrease exiting and loading times.
This is exactly the solution BUT it makes underground stations way more expensive to build. The Beijing subway is a prime example; almost all stops are same side and have the huge bottleneck problem. But there are a couple of transfer stations with different sides and a few seconds delay between the exit doors opening and the entrances opening. It makes a world of difference.
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That's exactly what I came here to say.
This is an engineering problem. It's not a technological problem. Someone proposing a technological solution to an engineering issue is wasting everyone's time and money.
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Is This Guy An Idiot? (Score:1)
This permits passengers -- particularly those on the platform -- to be directed to doors that will be less busy.
These are people who can't stand aside while people exit, even when it's in their own selfish interest to do so. What in the hell makes you think they can be assed to move to a whole different area of the platform?
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Can we please just make it legal to punch these idiots in the face?
I am a firm believer in physical 'nudging'.
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This permits passengers -- particularly those on the platform -- to be directed to doors that will be less busy.
What in the hell makes you think they can be assed to move to a whole different area of the platform?
Exactly. Perhaps they intend to use sheepdogs, or bouncers with electric prods. I generally get on in the area where I know the exit is going to be at my destination.
Pay some humans (Score:2)
Or they could just pay some humans to open and close some gated channels to allow everyone to leave first and then to allow people to enter only until departure time. I think Japan was already doing some version of this in the past, with attendants that stuffed people into the train, and presumably cleared a path to let them out. Either way, you need the humans, because nearly everyone acts badly in their absence.
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Or they could just pay some humans to open and close some gated channels to allow everyone to leave first and then to allow people to enter only until departure time. I think Japan was already doing some version of this in the past, with attendants that stuffed people into the train, and presumably cleared a path to let them out. Either way, you need the humans, because nearly everyone acts badly in their absence.
Attendants aren't necessary in Japan. Sometimes they are used in China.
95%+ of people in Japan stand to the side of the doors when they open, allowing people to exit. If you want to enter a crowded train or elevator, the most polite and effective thing to do is turn around and slowly back in. I can attest that there is always room for 1 more person using this method. In Japan nearly everyone follows the rules of boarding a train.
From what I've seen (Score:4, Insightful)
From what I've seen on the trains in Japan, damn near everyone waits patiently behind the yellow line, in 2 lines per door and the people exiting the train are generally not obstructed at all. Then, the waiting passengers board calmly.
I'm thinking these researchers may have never lived in Japan, or only compared the busiest times when there's hardly standing room on the platforms.
Now perhaps if one door was exit only and one was enter only on each car, it would work, but only if loading/unloading an entire car at a time.
Re: From what I've seen (Score:3)
You sure make a compelling argument for courteous Americans!
Mumbai Trains have no doors (Score:3)
Just vast numbers of people pushing as hard as they can, and then the trains take off, always on time, with some people hanging out the door. It is a real sport.
Killed 6,989 passengers apparently.
https://indianexpress.com/arti... [indianexpress.com]
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And the good news is that when the occasional bomb goes of and kills a dozen more, nobody really notices.
Re:From what I've seen (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Invest in nice new trains.
2. Hire the best staff on merit.
3. Look after the stations and trains. Keep the trains and stations clean. Passport controls and police to keep criminals away.
4. Look after the track. Upgrade the tracks with new technology every generation.
5. Have a national culture thats likes trains for work and holidays.
6. Understand what tourism needs. Work to ensure the best parts of a nation can be enjoyed by train. Tell the world about such train travel.
7. Understand what workers need everyday.
No AI needed. Just a good way of funding rail and the best staff.
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Re:From what I've seen (Score:4, Interesting)
Most of those have little to do with why the railways in Japan are so efficient.
The real reasons are things like the way they train staff to stick rigidly to procedure and timing. The procedures themselves are well designed, e.g. they play a little tune on the platform that stops exactly 10 seconds before the doors close, so everyone including the passengers knows what is happening. They have markings to show where the train doors will be and the drivers stop in precisely the right place, so everyone is lined up. People then move to the side of the doors so that people can exit the train, and they can embark in an orderly fashion.
Plus on the busy lines they have trains arriving every 5 minutes, so people aren't so inclined to rush and cause problems.
You don't need the best people, you just need people who can stick to procedure. I have no idea what you mean about passport controls - do you mean passport checks at stations?!
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That doesn't matter. Our commuter trains arrive every 90 seconds during peak periods and you still get people pushing shoving and rushing the doors.
And I think that time is conservative - I think peak times can easily be 45 seconds or less between trains.
The final nail on the coffin is sometimes trains are backed up so you have several trains traveling together. The inevitable result is
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Re "orderly fashion" Thats having a population that understands that getting to work on time is something good.
Re "trains arriving every 5 minutes" Thats decades of investment and hard work nationally and at the company level in every aspect of train design.
Generations of really smart people going to work and doing a great job every day to ensure everything to do with t
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I mean the procedure on the ground at the station and on the trains.
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A nation can have great staff, the best people selected on merit but if the trains don't get replaced they have to go slow and wait for old equipment to be worked on.
Trains can be upgraded with new equipment but if staff get selected on demographics and not merit the work they do is not good. Staff with few skills then make a nations trains late due to their lack of skill.
When the staff are great and the are trains new the track still has to be looked at to e
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I'm not sure that making trains work like in Germany should be a goal. Deutsche Bahn has its own serious delay problems, because the track maintenance has been sub par for decades and many of the older trains are a pita. (Never rely on any of the toilets being in working condition!)
Also, train stations that are not in large cities tend to be in a state of decay.
Not to mention that they used to be very cheap when hiring staff.
The reason for this was that our government converted the railway into several sepa
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Before all the problems Germany now has
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btw: There is no such state as "West Germany" any more. Hasn't been for nearly 3 decades. There is only one Germany and sometimes I wonder which part it was that survived the reunion.
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You havenâ(TM)t been on a busy train in one of these countries, have you?
Obviously he has not, the idea is laughable. Probably an American who has never been on a train - seems to think that trains usually have one set of doors and that having two sets would be a bright new idea. In fact on some metro trains like the London Underground, about half the side of the car opens up at each station.
Do it like Disneyland (Score:3, Interesting)
Make the boarding passengers stand behind gates which only open after the arriving passengers have left the train.
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That would take ages.
To Sum Up (Score:4, Interesting)
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Evolution ensures that there will always be some percentage of the populace that employs the "take advantage of the nice people" strategy. Evolution favors groups that have a multitude of strategies, regardless of whether more than a few are successful in a particular place and time. Hence the large prison population and constant churn of people trying to run their own Italian restaurant.
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Humans have subverted evolution by protecting the weak and stupid and preventing Darwinism to take it's natural course of cleansing the low end of the gene pool.
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People? The people engineering trains and stations suck. And that's why riding the train sucks.
This is 100% an engineering problem. Separate entry and exit, open the exit doors and give everyone 20 seconds to exit, then open the entry doors and give everyone 20 seconds to enter.
Opening one door and asking people to pass each other in the doorway is asinine.
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I'd like to see the number of technical problems that boil down to 'vodka spilled on *' broken out separately.
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Use both sides of the train.
Artificial intelligence? (Score:1)
Italy 1930s - Benito Mussolini (Score:2)
Total bastard, but hey, at least he got the trains to run on time...
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He got people to believe the trains ran on time.
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PEBKAC (Score:2)
"platform-train interface" sounds like the train version of this ðY
Why AI? (Score:3)
Since all the AI can do is possibly activate indicator lamps or play messages to people to ask them to do things, then it isn't going to help. Considering that the problem is obvious at the outset, it doesn't take an AI to make it any more obvious.
This is equivalent to just making one door 'in' and the other door 'out' in a variable rather than fixed manner. It can't solve the primary clearly known issues that were indicated: people standing too close to the yellow lines, holding doors, crowding doors, etc.
You don't need cameras and AI if you can force people to evenly distribute themselves, stop crowding doorways, stop trying to enter through closing doors, and stand away from the edge of the platform. Even better, have a lit sign that directs the flow of people inside the carriage to one of the doors when the train is more than half full, and make sure the carriages line up properly on the platforms that also has lights so people know which is the 'entry' and which is the 'exit' door.
It also helps when there are signs/announcements around the place that reminds people to 'stand away from the doors until passengers have finished exiting', 'stand to the left(or right) on the escalator if you're not walking', 'stand up and move towards to the carriage doors before the train arrives at the platform', 'stand back from the yellow line - or the train will be delayed', etc.
One time we're sitting on the train waiting at the platform and the PA comes alive with: "please stand back from the doors". Followed about 20 seconds later with: "would the guy in the blue shirt and baseball cap in the third carriage stop holding the door as you are delaying the train from leaving the platform". Another 20 seconds: "to the guy holding the door, the security staff are on their way down to remove you and the friend you're waiting for from the train".
It's about frame of reference..... (Score:2)
Two ideas that might speed it up (Score:3)
First idea- Pick a destination station before you board (some systems already make you do this), or have a default set of station pairs, and let the system tell you which train/door to go to, with the system optimizing to reduce conflicts. Offer some reward for cooperation , i.e. "Good Commuter points" or some small discount. Downside: requires tracking.
Second idea- Skip the directions, just have the reward- if the train leaves on time, everyone getting on or off gets a star. Let the commuters figure out how to do it. Downside: requires tracking (but not as much), and might increase confrontations with non-cooperative riders.
Other factors- I sometimes see people standing in the doorway, not getting on/off, just blocking access to those who are. These people need to be "incentivized" to move elsewhere.
Possibly just having a sign indicating get off/on times, i.e. first 10 seconds after doors open are only for getting off (or until everyone is off), then let people on, would solve the entire problem.
Japan? (Score:4, Interesting)
My understanding, from friends that have been to Japan, and watching japanophile shows like Japanology+, was that the trains in Japan were almost disgustingly punctual. Is that not the case?
My friends may have been amazed due to comparison to U.S rail systems.
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Recently a train in Japan departed 20 seconds off its expected time, and it was in the national news, with much hand-wringing.
This is not a joke: it's a real event.
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International news https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]
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Recently a train in Japan departed 20 seconds off its expected time, and it was in the national news, with much hand-wringing.
This is not a joke: it's a real event.
That's actually a bigger deal than you might think, because the train timetables are all set up to give you exactly enough time to change trains. I once took a shinkansen from Tokyo to Fukuoka. There was a 3 minute connection in Kyoto. I was sweating bullets because unlike the frequent subways/short-distance city trains I had used for months, if I missed the connection I would be waiting 2 hours. Turns out that 3 minutes is plenty of time if you walk at a normal or slightly slower than normal pace. It
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There are sometimes delays in Japan, but they are very precise.
Attack! (Score:2)
Those pesky passengers having heart attacks and other medical problems on train, causing trains to be halted and lines to be blocked. When will they learn!?
How about (Score:2)
How about an external light system by which a car is marked as red, yellow or green based on occupancy ?
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How about an external light system by which a car is marked as red, yellow or green based on occupancy ?
If you commute for any length of time in Japan, you quickly learn which cars will be more packed on your route. It generally depends on where the platform stairs/escalators are in the previous busy station, and where they are located at your boarding station. It only took me a couple weeks to figure out. And it doesn't make much difference (other than comfort) anyway. There is always room for one more person, just face away from the train and back in.
You have to allow for human desire... (Score:1)
That isn't how people work.
They want to be by the door closest to where there are more free seats - which is more likely to be the one where there are most people alighting.
Train gurus (Score:1)
Still can't force people's actions (Score:2)
I was talking with a friend the other night, and he opined that compromise should die, that technology can solve so many of the world's problems and we need to sweep people out of the way to get it done. Basically he wants technology to control and run things, to run people; in this instance there's just no way to get people to always go to another door. We might be able to measure it, but can we (do we want to?) MAKE people be optimized? DOesn't that kind of just make them machines?
If you ever travveled the JR ... (Score:1)
... Shinkansen trains you what system just works. If only all trains be boarded like that delays would only be a technicality.
Alternative energy (Score:2)
Amtrak Delays (Score:2)