Cyclists Are Faster Than Cars And Motorbikes in Cities and Towns, Study Says (forbes.com) 414
Smartphone data from riders and drivers schlepping meals for restaurant-to-home courier service Deliveroo shows that bicycles are faster than cars and motorized two-wheelers. From a news writeup, which sources its data from Deliveroo, a UK-headquartered food delivery company with more than 30,000 riders and drivers in 13 countries: That bicyclists are faster in cities will come as no surprise to bicycle advocates who have staged so-called "commuter races" for many years. However, these races -- organized to highlight the swiftness of urban cycling -- are usually staged in locations and at hours skewed towards bicycle riders. The Deliveroo stats are significant because they have been extracted from millions of actual journeys. And it's all thanks to Frank.
Frank is the name Deliveroo gives its routing algorithm (the name was chosen for the Danny DeVito character in the TV series "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.") Delivering millions of simultaneous orders from thousands of restaurants to hungry consumers within 30 minutes using roving self-employed couriers equipped with smartphones is a complex vehicle routing problem: consumers want piping hot food; restaurants want meals picked up when cooked; riders -- paid per drop -- want multiple deliveries per hour, and Deliveroo needs to make money. The algorithm team employs data scientists with PhDs in computer vision, computer science, operations research, cognitive neuroscience, econometrics, machine learning, and physics.
Frank is the name Deliveroo gives its routing algorithm (the name was chosen for the Danny DeVito character in the TV series "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.") Delivering millions of simultaneous orders from thousands of restaurants to hungry consumers within 30 minutes using roving self-employed couriers equipped with smartphones is a complex vehicle routing problem: consumers want piping hot food; restaurants want meals picked up when cooked; riders -- paid per drop -- want multiple deliveries per hour, and Deliveroo needs to make money. The algorithm team employs data scientists with PhDs in computer vision, computer science, operations research, cognitive neuroscience, econometrics, machine learning, and physics.
Of course (Score:5, Informative)
They don't respect traffick lights and stop signs.
Re:Of course (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm of two minds on this.
First, some comedian said a while back: "When I'm driving, I hate pedestrians. And when I'm walking, I hate drivers. But no matter what I'm doing, I hate cyclists."
On the other hand, I've been commuting almost entirely on an electric bike for the last year and a half. Knowing what I've hated about cyclists for decades, I scrupulously stop at stop signs and red lights and use hand signals.
On the rare occasions when I take my car, it's always 25-45 minutes depending on traffic. On my bike I can cover the same four miles in 15-24 minutes, at times zooming right by 2-3 blocks worth of stopped cars.
In general, these days I avoid taking my car anywhere. Electric bike is usually faster and always way more fun.
Re: Of course (Score:5, Informative)
You must live somewhere with no weather changes. Its great you can make it work. I live in the Ohio valley. It took forever for it to stop snowing this year. It was toward the end of april when we got our first glipse of spring weather. Then May came with the typical April showers, only it didnt stop after May. Well into June/July we had week long rains, where there was maybe 1 or 2 days a week that it didnt rain. The heat peeked early, making june the first month of the year to reach mid 90s. October returned back to the rainy/cold and as of this morning it was 22F when I woke up. Tuesday will be our first snow of the year, and when I wake on Wednesday its supposed to be 13F.
It seems these articles are written in a vacuum. Whats worse is that city planners around here listened to these utopian ideas and deleted an entire lane of traffic to support a bike lane that is nearly never used because of cold, or rain, or icy/wet roads making the risk of getting slammed into by a car that lost control a very real possibility. Deleting a 3 lane road into 2 (that still lets people park on the curb turning it into 1 lane) has only made traffic even worse. The risk of injury is very real. I had a workout friend get cremed riding across a traffic bridge while training for a triathalon. The driver was composing an email and drifted to the right and clipped his bike, sending him head first into the pavement. It crushed the vertebrae in his neck. They need special sidewalks, not painted stripes on a road, in a location thats weather permitting. But least we will never experience drout.
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What's keeping you where the weather sucks?
For thirty nine years I lived in a place that gets the same (or less, depending on the source) amount of sunny days per year as Seattle.
Two years ago I realized that the only things keeping me there were in my head. So I relocated to a place that has double that number and I've found it to be an absolutely wonderful change and wish I'd done it decades ago.
Re: Of course (Score:5, Interesting)
The militant cyclists are indeed in a vacuum. I used to have some come to me with a bike map showing how I can easily do the 15 mile ride despite not having been on a bike in decades. I also had some friends at work badger someone to join them on a weekend ride, and they went on a difficult route in the mountains that they thought was "easy" and the newcomer ended up breaking a shoulder. They seem to honestly think everyone can cycle at an advanced level or at high speed, and they won't accept that someone does not want to join their cult.
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Yet plenty of people in Europe and other places have no problem with cycling in rain/snow. So I know it isn't cool but maybe hold back on the accusations of others being in a bubble, because it might just be you that is in the bubble.
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The problem with the cyclist you mention is that he will most likely damage someone's car and can cause emotional trauma to the driver. Just like the people who get run over by a train.
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Statistical evicende: Accident statistics show that in 70% of all car-cyclist accidents, the car driver was causing the collision.
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There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
If I, a driver, hit the door when another driver opens the door of his parked car, I was driving too close. If a cyclist hits a car door, the car driver was responsible for not looking (despite the fact that the cyclist may have come at him via a route that was illegal, and the driver had no reason to expect the bike-from-hell to hit him).
Large numbers of
Re: Complete fictional bollocks. (Score:5, Insightful)
"...most drivers willingly speed whenever they can..."
This is completely untrue. Most drivers ignore speed limits when they are unreasonable and most drivers have a very good sense for what reasonable speeds are. It has been well known for decades that speeding is the result of too low posted speed limits and that those limits are set for that very reason, at least in the US. Most drivers obey speed limits when they are reasonable.
"...they willingly break the law whenever they can get away with it."
This sounds more like a statement about you, not about the behavior of most drivers. I break traffic laws when they are unreasonable or produce a bad result but observe them otherwise even when no one is around. It has nothing to do with whether I can "get away with it", it has to do with always doing the right thing so I get it right when it matters.
Many cyclists show utter disregard for traffic laws. It is common within the cycling community to explicitly claim that traffic laws cannot be enforced on cyclists because they have an inherent "right to the road" that somehow doesn't apply to everyone else. Bicycles are unlicensed and cyclists think that means traffic laws don't apply.
As an e-bike commuter, I witness deliberate bad behavior among other cyclists most every day. With drivers it's always laziness and inattention, not contempt for the law.
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Let me get this straight. You say that it is untrue that drivers don't willingly speed and don't break the law, and contend that drivers don't have contempt for the law. Yet your reasoning for this is that they break the law and ignore speed limits when they think they know better (thus have contempt for the law).
Your reasons merely show that the grandparent was completely correct. So cyclists do deliberate bad behavior while drivers virtuously correct bad traffic laws.
Re: Complete fictional bollocks. (Score:4, Interesting)
The research is fundamentally flawed. Come back at me with a methodology that makes sense (e.g. doesn't rely on police reports).
In all my years driving, I have never once seen a car just out-and-out blow through a stop sign. I see it at least twice a month with cyclists.
If the research tells you something that is so obviously false, you should take the time to verify the research.
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Re: Complete fictional bollocks. (Score:3)
This.
Cyclists can't speed, but speeding is not dangerous in most situations, while blowing through a stop sign is something no sane competent driver does, but cyclists do with regularity.
When those cyclists get smeared, the roads have become a safer place for everyone else.
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Maybe not where you live, but this is about London, where the speed limit has recently been reduced to 20MPH almost everywhere, which reduces road capacity to the extent that traffic barely moves. However, most of London is pretty flat, and cyclists can easily exceed 20MPH - and having no regard for the concept of road markings - they come at you silently from arbitrary directions, and no more predictable than moths.
Cyclists need to know that unless other road users can predict wha
Re:Of course (Score:5, Interesting)
First, some comedian said a while back: "When I'm driving, I hate pedestrians. And when I'm walking, I hate drivers. But no matter what I'm doing, I hate cyclists."
I'm a cyclise and I hate cyclists. Seriously everybody hates those guys. Actually come to think of it when I drive other drivers piss me off. And FFS why do people need to walk 4 abreast at 2 miles an hour on the pavement??
Hm maybe I'm just angry.
Joking aside, while it's possible to kill someone with a collision on a bike (it does happen), it's much harder to do in a car. Drivers are in control of a couple of metal stuff and 75kW of power, compared to a 80kg cyclist with maybe a kW for very short bursts. Drivers have a lot more responsibility than bikes and so their behaviour needs to be much much better.
The other thing that strikes me about driving is how self-defeting the driver lobby is here. They're always boo cyclists MOAR CARS. I live in London where the traffic is marginal at best and room for new roads does not exist. If you really want to drive the best strategy is to advocate for more bikes and pedestrians since that's the only way to reduce the traffic jams.
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I would at least like to see police taking cyclists more seriously and enforcing traffic rules. A license that can be taken away migh
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I couldn't, there are too many stop signs and lights if I went a more efficient route, and if I went the way my car goes it's too far for me (not in shape). I will be riding leisurely, I don't want to show up at work all sweaty and be out of breath for an hour. Also, it's friggin dangerous, the bike lanes are too tiny, or are shared with turn lanes, or there are cracks and potholes, etc.
What I see from cyclists is that they DON'T stop, not even at lights, as if the rules don't apply to them. Never mind i
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When I go to work, driving is the fastest way, because I do not encounter traffic jams (and on a bike I would have to wait the same time for traffic lights and would be slower when actually going).
Also, when I am driving, I do not mind the wait so much. It it's -20C outside, I can use heating in my car, If it's +30C, I can use AC. The car has a roof that protects me from rain or snow. So, even if it was faster to use a bike, I would not do so. I'd rather sit in my car, listening to my favorite radio station
As a cyclist (Score:3)
tip: cars don't stop at stop signs either.
"Rolling stop" you say?
You never slowed down more than a bicycle anyway.
Re: Of course (Score:3)
That's simply not true. Lane splitting is allowed as long as multiple vehicles can fit, and there are no restrictions on speed aside from the local speed limit. As of a year ago, CA just began regulations, but no regulations have been implemented as they are waiting for guidelines from CHP (who I might add regularly have officers lane splitting at 65 mph).
Re:Of course (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm of mixed feelings about this.
It depends on where the stop signs are.
If I'm out in real traffic, I honor traffic signals just like motor vehicles. I actually annoy some people in motor vehicles at stoplights because when the light turns green I can clean an intersection before the car out front puts away their mobile phone and steps on the gas. In fact one of my biggest annoyances as a cyclist is when people are overly courteous to me. I'm planning my next move based on people driving normally, slowing down and being overly cautious of me screws up my planning - cars not using their turn signals is one of my biggest annoyances, because I'm going to adjust my speed according to what the motor vehicles around me are signaling before crossing that next intersection where I and the traffic I'm riding along with have the right-or-way.
As for residential areas. Many stop signs in residential areas are there not to regulate the intersection as much as they are to keep motor vehicles slowed down to safe speeds. If I'm in a residential area and I can see there's no traffic at that next stop sign, damned straight I'm blowing right through it like it's not even there. It takes me a lot more distance for me to achieve cruising speed than it does a motor vehicle - stop signs are a bigger deal to me. If there's traffic I'm going to treat it like I'm in a motor vehicle, but damned straight I'm blowing through it in a quiet residential area.
Re: Of course (Score:2)
I was always told to obey all traffic laws when riding on the pavement. But being on a bike DOES let you move to the head of the line. In Bankok motorcyclist did that all the time. They woud drive past the traffic and line up at the light. They still made better time even though they waited at the lights.
Re:Of course (Score:5, Interesting)
On a bike, I don't blow through stop signs in residential areas, but I do slow down to the same speed Hollywood roll that most motor vehicles do. Which is to say, I don't slow down all that much.
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Also, the cyclists are going as fast as they can, they don't believe in leisurely riding their bikes.
Also, count the amount of time preparing to ride, getting into a lycra outfit that is too small, packing the work clothes, and the time after finishing the ride, showering at work, etc. That can be another 45 minutes.
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Re:Of course (Score:4, Interesting)
Probably true (well, not stop signs, because this is the UK where we don't have stop signs).
However, it is worth noting that we only need traffic lights because of the cars. If UK roads and traffic laws were built around cyclists and give them automatic right of way, then we'd be in a much clearer place.
Incidentally, while car drivers kill around 10 pedestrians a year jumping read lights, cyclists do not, which is the key difference.
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It's a shame it's not the law everywhere as it really does work best for everyone involved. Stopping at every stop sign religiou
Re:Jealous motorists (Score:5, Informative)
Motorbikes do that too, but motorbikes follow the road rules...
The article claims bikes were faster than motorbikes, and the lack of following rules is about the only differentiator in london - motorbikes are allowed in cycle/bus lanes, and motorbikes can generally accelerate much faster than a bike.
The annoyance with bikes at intersections is that although they filter to the front, even if they do obey the lights (often being forced to by traffic flowing in other directions) they pull away very slowly and delay all the other traffic, often causing some traffic to be caught when the lights change again. Motorbikes are usually capable of accelerating sufficiently quickly that they get away ahead of all the other traffic and therefore don't cause any delays.
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The difference in times between motorcycles and bicycles likely comes down to endpoint timing more than route timing. If I lean a bicycle against the side of the building it will take less time than parking in a space and walking to the door.
As for the stoplight conundrum, sitting behind cars breathing in the exhaust is unhealthy, and the position is dangerous (cars don’t see bicycles and the car behind you poses a hazard. So, you go forward. For acceleration time, that is why I try to lead out while
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I went out walking last week after the sun went down, because there were too many meetings during daylight. No streetlights on the path so it was pretty dark. Saw someone dressed in black coming the other way which made me chuckle, and then I saw a cyclist with yellow lights on his backpack but zero lights up front who I also didn't see right away. I was baffled and wondered if he was actually going to get onto surface streets in the dark without having a light...
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The cyclist has to get the bike inside, locked up, then shower and change.
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Those that don't don't get to stick around long enough to bother all that many people.
Re: Jealous motorists (Score:2)
If they dont stop at the light, a car coming rhe other way is likely to t-bone them. Theres no exoskeleton riding a bike. The cyclist will have a very bad day. I still dont understand why they made biking on a sidewalk illegal. Sidewalk cross walks are better equipped to turn left without leaving the bike lane. The injury from a collission to a pedestrian is still a lot less than a car hitting a cyclist. The bike does not weigh 4600lb.
Re: Jealous motorists (Score:5, Informative)
Having been knocked unconscious and suffering a concussion from being hit by a bicyclist while I was walking I fully understand why they aren't supposed to use pedestrian walkways.
Re: Jealous motorists (Score:2)
What about splitting a sidewalk into fast movers and slow movers like they do at airports?
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Having been knocked unconscious and suffering a concussion from being hit by a bicyclist while I was walking I fully understand why they aren't supposed to use pedestrian walkways.
Be happy you are alive. Would you rather be hit by a car? Cyclists on roads routinely die from that around here.
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I know the plural of anecdote is not data but yes, it happened to me. Vastly more pedestrian vs. car and bicycle vs car than pedestrian vs bicycle but it happens.
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I think a lot of the Darwin contestants assume that they can stop fast. They'll do this in residential areas assuming there's almost no traffic, so they may be likely to become complacent. I saw a coworker run a light with a 90 degree turn without slowing down; I was on the cross street with the green light and I slammed on the brakes and skidded assuming she couldn't turn tight enough to not hit me. She made it though, but never an apology or an oops or whatnot.
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Also when I grew up, we were told to keep the bikes on the sidewalks and not get in the streets for that reason. This was before bike lanes.
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Oh, I think if everyone in Manhattan were riding bikes or in pedicabs, there'd still be a need for traffic lights, although in many cases they could be replaced with (very small) roundabouts. The big difference would be that your infrastructure dollar would go a lot farther. Road damage goes up as roughly the cube of vehicle weight.
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Road damage is mostly caused by trucks, not cars. Unless you're okay with all of the city's businesses shutting down, you'll have to live with road damage.
Re: Of course (Score:2)
They exist because cars ore coming in the cross direction at 35 - 47mph. Thats bad for a car to drive into ehen the light is red. Its fatal to a bike.
How much less safe are they ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Speaking as someone who has done it biking through NYC traffic is not for the faint of heart. Make sure your legs are in good shape as well because not all that city has been well and truly flattened the way the Dutch started doing when it was New Amsterdam.
Then there is the whole utility thing. You aren't going to carrying a weeks groceries for a family of 3 or 4 back on bicycle. Yeah it can be done but who the hell wants to. Finally there is that whole matter of inclement weather.
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We have different experiences of fridge sizes and grocery shopping levels. Heck I used to see old women with those collapsible wire carts buying more than 2 bicycle bags of groceries.
But lets see. This is what my shopping list used to look like.
1 Gallon of milk
2 gallons of various sodas
2 dozen eggs
2 lbs bacon
2-3 heads of of lettuce
Onions, carrots, potatoes other vegetables as needed
Bread 2 loaves
2 lbs could cuts
2 lbs cheese
Snacks depends
Cleaning supplies as needed
Paper Products as needed
Ice cream or other d
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Then there is the whole utility thing. You aren't going to carrying a weeks groceries for a family of 3 or 4 back on bicycle. Yeah it can be done but who the hell wants to.
Um, I've never owned a car and I have done just that very thing for the last 25 years.
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You aren't going to carrying a weeks groceries for a family of 3 or 4 back on bicycle.
On a normal bicycle, even with a rack on back and a basket on the handlebars? Maybe. Two is more likely. But note that there is such a thing as a cargo bike [greenlivingideas.com], and someone truly married to the idea of avoiding using a car as much as possible might well invest in one. If you live in non-flat areas or are quadricep-c
In some situations yes this is true (Score:5, Interesting)
By car it takes me 15-20 if traffic is light and 30min to 1 hour and 15 minutes for the same commute depending on the number of retards that can't drive are on the road. This is in Tampa Florida so it is a highly season thing. It is opposite of what you think is true. The locals are by far the worse drivers I have ever come across in the US. Even worse than Los Angeles. They can flip a car in a single vehicle accident on a straight road on a dry sunny day. Don't ask me how but they do it all the freaking time. The snow birds and the tourists that flock down here for vacation just add to the stupid that is already inherent in the system, but are hardly the cause of it.
I've converted over to commuting by bicycle because of the outdated stand your ground laws don't consider a person with their head up their ass (phone) randomly changing lanes in a 3000lbs piece of mechanized steel at 60mph in a 35 to be a lethal threat and justification enough to be countered with the use of lethal force.
Even with the dodge-em I have to play with the cars, commuting by bike consistently takes less time, has a more predictable ETA and is by far more gentle on my sanity than commuting by car. Self driving cars can't get here quick enough in my opinion.
Re:In some situations yes this is true (Score:4, Informative)
Plus is saves on gym time. You're getting seven and a half hours of light exercise a week, and if you're a typical male you're burning about 4000 calories a week, which is equivalent to about a pound of fat; while you probably eat more to compensate, it makes it a lot less likely you'll gain weight than the people driving past you.
Seven and a half hours of light exercise is also well within the range that is optimal for cardiovascular health, and research shows that this volume of exercise improves brain performance in memory and executive function tasks. Research also shows that regular exercise works as well as medication and psychotherapy combined at treating depression.
Cyclists also develop more robust immune systems; taking up cycling cuts the number of sick days in half.
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I commute by bike as well. It takes about 25-30 minutes to ride one way, while in the car it takes about 20 minutes. The ride is uphill one way though. I ride in almost any weather except for snow/ice, which doesn't happen too often in Vancouver. I have excellent lighting and reflection as well. Vancouver is excellent for bikes, as we have a good bike lane system. I think we have gotten to the point in Vancouver where 10% of residents (pdf warning) [google.com] cycled to work. That is in spite of Vancouver's legendary r
Not really (Score:2)
Bikes are faster than motorbikes that are faster than cars. In crowded situations.
This because they can (illegally) sneak through the car lines, jump on pedestrian lanes and the likes.
Cars cannot do that.
On city bypasses and fast lanes cars are way faster as usaully bikes are not allowed as well as light motorbikes (on my country).
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On city bypasses and fast lanes cars are way faster
Only if they're not stuck in a traffic jam.
not a fair comparison (Score:2)
In my UK city Deliveroo riders actively avoid using roads, even seem averse to cycle paths if the pedestrian path isn't full. One way signs are just a hint to get off the road onto the pavement, stop lights are just pretty red lights to ignore if possible.
They're a fucking menace to pedestrians. It's no surprise at all they beat drivers following the rules.
No shit Sherlock! (Score:2)
Quit complaining (Score:2)
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How far and what is the weather? (Score:2)
The epidemic of lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
To hell with my karma.
Yep, cyclists frequently break traffic laws, which helps them go faster through congested traffic. But, after having bicycle commuted for several years, rude cycling is not the major factor in reduced commute times. Taking up less space and moving continuously while cars idle is what saves the time. I've crossed intersections, waiting for green lights, with scores of pedestrians and other cyclists, all crossing at the same time. Parallel asynchronous flows work with pedestrians and cyclists, not so much with cars, especially in dense cities. And car drivers typically break just as many traffic laws as cyclists, just different laws: speeding, changing lanes in an intersection, driving distracted/talking on cell phones, using bike lanes as turn lanes, etc. Pot, meet kettle.
Every election cycle healthcare becomes an issue, and increasingly CO2 & global warming, energy independence, and global conflicts over energy. Here's an idea: Chip humans and log their blood pressure and heart rate. In order to get any health insurance, your log must show some reasonable level of aerobic exercise - 4 to 6 hours per week, for starters. You are too busy, too important, and don't have the time for this? Fine, pay for your own healthcare. All of it, including vision and dental. No exercise for 1 week - probation. No exercise for 1 month, no coverage, for anything. Probationary coverage resumes the first day you can show a week's worth of exercise, which can be done in half a day. Full coverage after a consistent month of reasonable exercise. A brisk walk per day is plenty good enough. For many, using stairs instead of the elevator would do it. If you exercise, healthcare should be very prompt and comprehensive. The real goal is to get fat, lazy people off their ass and moving around in something other than an SUV.
Is this socialist, bordering on fascist? Yep. But trying to get universal healthcare for a population that doesn't care about their own health is pulling money out of my pocket to keep some twinkie eating lard-ass alive for a few extra years, and that's just as wrong. Forcing society to pay for the elderly and handicapped is great, but if your choices make you handicapped, then that's on you, not me.
I'll take the rude cyclists anywhere, any day, over the lazy, whiny, entitled little bitches. You know who you are.
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"Is this socialist, bordering on fascist? Yep. But trying to get universal healthcare for a population that doesn't care about their own health is pulling money out of my pocket to keep some twinkie eating lard-ass alive for a few extra years, and that's just as wrong."
What a load. Many first world countries have universal healthcare without submitting to mandatory monitoring and government-ordered exercise programs. Did you think at all before posting this tripe?
Universal health care is the solution to th
Umm.. read the article.. (Score:3)
They found that a cyclist is faster than a motorbike.
A motorbike can do all the same 'squeeze through spaces' things a bike can (at least within 90%).
It is also significantly faster (in the situations where that would count).
So no, the difference is not the ability to split lanes.
That pretty much leaves breaking the law.. Which motorcyclists get pinged for, and bicyclists generally dont..
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In that case, DanDD, why not chip everyone for mandatory monitoring and execute a death sentence to anyone who violates the rules. This could be carried out easily and inexpensively by a simple poison capsule triggered by the monitoring software locally. No expensive data collection and no burden to society. Think of all that precious money of yours saved from the waste of those deadbeats!
I guess it's easy to be a philosopher on /. Perhaps you should spend more time thinking about the real problem and l
Amsterdam (Score:3)
I don't get why drivers are so resentful! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:No they aren’t. (Score:5, Interesting)
In a reasonable world, we would change the laws to allow people on bikes to yield at stop signs and go at red lights after a full stop, as they already do anyway, so as to not artificially slow them down while making their behavior more predictable for pedestrians and motorists. But instead we moralize and say that if I can't legally plow through four-way stops in my car, no one can! Even though four-way stops were engineered deliberately to slow down cars in residential neighborhoods for the benefit of other road users.
Signed, an enthusiastic driver who also enjoys riding a bike, who follows the road laws exactly when in a car and bends them while on a bike, because I'm concerned about actual safety and not just arbitrarily following rules.
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They are called manners. Learn some. It might be kindergarten to say "Because I said so." But if you haven't figured out how society functions on your own, then you don't get your diploma yet.
Re:No they aren’t. (Score:4, Interesting)
Some jurisdictions allow something called the "Idaho stop", which allows cyclists to treat a red light as a stop sign and a stop sign as a yield sign.
Now personally, as a cyclist I'm dubious of this, but empirical studies of this rule show it actually reduces accidents. That actually mystifies me. On one hand I can believe the rule wouldn't increase accidents, because of cyclists' sense of self-preservation, but I can't quite see why it would actually reduce accidents. The one exception I can think of is the "right hook", where a motorist making a right turn hits a cyclist going straight or also making a right turn. This can happen even when the motorist sees the cyclist, because most drivers have a very poor idea of where their passenger-side rear corner is in a turn.
Advocates are divided on the Idaho stop. On one hand it's simpler and politically more palatable to simply say "bikes and cars are equivalent"; but I suppose there's no a priori reason why the rules ought to be exactly the same.
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So enforce rules
But Idaho Stop laws codify this behavior in the rules. And since it's all a matter of 'proceed if you judge the intersection to be safe', enforcement becomes subjective. Cyclists who already blow through intersections without the Idaho Stop rules will just think that they have the blessing of the law to carry on.
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That's a self-limiting behavior.
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And it's OK when cyclists take their own chances. But how many little kids see adults doing this and figure that it's OK. With no concept of how cars can and cannot maneuver.
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That's one of the important arguments against the Idaho stop.
It seems to me that you could argue a priori either way. Maybe some kids will see adults going past a stop sign and think it's perfectly safe to do that any time. Or you could argue that many kids are prone to ignore signs anyway, and that since drivers are expecting this in Idaho stop jurisdictions, children doing that will be safer.
Chances are every scenario you can imagine will occur at some time and place. What we need to determine is whethe
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This is precisely what the empirical data appears to disprove. Now having worked all my life with data, I am skeptical of it; a little data can be misleading because you never know whether you inadvertently are sampling some special case. However more jurisdictions that report positive results from the Idaho stop rule, the less likely it is to be a fluke.
I think it is at least plausible that the accident rate isn't significantly higher, because cyclists have a stronger incentive than cars to avoid risks.
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That's the same problem with any law. There are drivers that don't stop at the stop line; that doesn't make stop lines a bad idea.
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Then they go to various legislatures and city councils to get even more idiotic laws passed allowing them to obstruct traffic
These aren't cyclists. Not everyone who attends city council meeting wearing Lycra, helmets and funny shoes has cycling's best interests at heart. The militant 'cyclists' in Seattle are just using actual cyclists as speed bumps to slow down car traffic. Or screw with commercial/industrial districts.
Assume you are a cyclist and you are given a few options for a route from point A to B and one of them involves cutting through a light industrial district with trucks, forklifts and train cars crossing the prop
Re:Of course (Score:5, Interesting)
As they should be ...
Cyclists have better all-around vision than cars. They should be allowed to slow at a stop sign or red signal, check for cross traffic/pedestrians, then go. There are plenty of times when this is safe, as long as one actually checks.
Lane splitting -- cycles are narrower than cars. It's safer to keep moving than to risk being squashed between cars. Anyway, people need to figure out what they want cyclists to do. They bitch when they're part of traffic and ride in the lane, and keep bitching if they ride on the side/shoulder, affording the opportunity to filter/split past traffic.
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It's safer to keep moving than to risk being squashed between cars.
Nope. Because once I've seen you from my car, I know you are there and will make allowances for you. The danger to you is that interval when you get near another car and they aren't aware of you yet. That's when you get squashed. Lane splitting just allows you to surprise more car drivers with your presence per minute, increasing your exposure.
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They should be allowed to slow at a stop sign or red signal, check for cross traffic/pedestrians, then go.
Google 'Idaho stop'; it's exactly what you're describing, and is the law in Idaho. Seems to work for them.
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And yet, if you ask the police for their stats, on average it is most likely a cyclist is at fault when police arrive at the scene of an MVC involving a cyclist and a motor vehicle.
I wonder why that is?
Oh, do I ever love a good anecdote in an argument. It proves so much.
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Well, anecdote this.
The only bike accident I've ever been in was caused by a van driven by an uninsured person, who hit me from behind while I was riding straight, breaking no laws. Moreover, I was in the lane (with a helmet and safety vest) because a large food truck was sticking out beyond the normal space reserved for parked cars.
You know what the cop asked me? He asked me why I was driving on that street.
So, yep, police are wont to find cyclists at fault. After all, they find fault in cyclists being on
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I would tend to agree, although I am biased as a cyclist. Been hit by a car three times myself, and all three were the result of a car turning into me (technically one was a lane incursion). One was someone turning left and misjudjing my speed, and the other two were right turns into me— one while in a bike lane and the other from a car turning across two lanes. Similar story when my wife was hit by a car.
In only two cases did the police come and make a report. If injured, the cyclist is at a huge di
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Re: Of course (Score:2)
No thats canada. They apologize when you run into them ;-)
Not being serious. Just a friendly jab at their politeness.
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Can you give an example of this "average city, with average traffic, population and all that"?
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The fastest Tour de France riders, going downhill in the Alps will hit maybe 65mph, so you probably should have challenged the cop's radar gun, because I doubt you were going 60.
Re: Depends (Score:3)
Sprawl is an ecological disaster. No environmentally conscious person should live anywhere but densely populated cities or on organic farmland.
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Faster than cars maybe, but depends on various factors like length of journey, volume of traffic, fitness of rider, weather, road gradients etc...
But faster than motorbikes, which can also filter past stopped cars is very unlikely unless the cyclists are breaking the laws.
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