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Windows Microsoft Operating Systems Software Technology

Microsoft Releases Windows 10 Build 18290 With Start Menu Improvements (betanews.com) 205

DarkRookie2 shares a report a report about Windows 10 Build 18290 for Insiders, which comes with a number of improvements and additions. BetaNews reports: The most noticeable change is to the Start menu which gets a touch of Fluent design, making it look more attractive. Icons have also been added to the power and user menus. The Search and Cortana areas have been given a bit of a cleanup as well. Also new in this build is an option in the Date & Time Settings that will let you manually synchronize your clock with the time server. If you suspect your PC clock might be showing the wrong time, this will let you check and correct the problem if you're right. You can now also check to see which app is using your microphone (just hover over the microphone icon to see), and when your PC has an update that requires a reboot, you'll now be informed via an orange Windows Update indicator in the system tray.
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Microsoft Releases Windows 10 Build 18290 With Start Menu Improvements

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  • by Shaitan ( 22585 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @07:21PM (#57717722)

    The start menu has gotten worse and worse with each release and peaked somewhere around XP pro. 7 was the last functional one.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Exactly. Worst thing ever for productivity is having the UI change on someone else's terms. Bet they make it even harder to remove shitware like the XBOX app and Tripadvisor from the start menu, because those are necessary apps for a work computer.

      Don't even get me started on those annoying as hell tiles that dont belong anywhere on a PC.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @07:28PM (#57717758)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Not really sure what the problem with it is. It does the same thing as the win 7 start menu but with a search field you can type into instantly.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by grimthaw ( 2884377 )

          Besides having a weird time delay (experienced on many systems) where the OS doesn't pick up the first couple of letters in the password field, start menu, etc. So you have to 'wait' for it to catch up after pressing alt-ctrl-del when logging in, pressing start to search, and all number of actions that should be quick and thoughtless...

          It also has a search that doesn't work as good as windows 7s. Someone it has gone backwards. Want to quickly get Notepad++?

          Press start button (on keyboard) and type note..

          • by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:40PM (#57718108)

            Besides having a weird time delay (experienced on many systems) where the OS doesn't pick up the first couple of letters in the password field, start menu, etc. So you have to 'wait' for it to catch up after pressing alt-ctrl-del when logging in, pressing start to search, and all number of actions that should be quick and thoughtless...

            You have to wait for the "telemetry" service to wake up sometimes.

          • by Xenx ( 2211586 )
            While I'm not going to rule out your experiences, it couldn't be further from true from my experiences and those of everyone I know. I've used Windows 10 across quite a variety of systems. From cheap atom based tablets on up. This includes: AMD CPUs, AMD GPU, Intel CPUs, Intel integrated GPU, Nvidia GPU. I've done inline upgrades from 7 to 10 as well as fresh installs on a number of them. I even use a PCoIP zero client to a Win 10 VM at work.

            And for the record, Windows 7 has no idea what I want when I typ
            • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

              All they have to do is build http://classicshell.net/ [classicshell.net] into windows and stop being dicks and trying to force some phone gui in a desktop. Then again from my perspective who gives a rats what M$ does, until they do windows with full privacy, zero monitoring of anything, stop trying to force their applications and end the forced installation of software and of all fucking things advertising, well, basically they can go fuck themselves.

              • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                  by Tyger-ZA ( 1886544 )

                  Classic Shell still working for me, Win10. Developer may not be able to keep up with MS constantly trying to defeat it. If not, now may be the time to give up on Windows completely and learn how to Linux. Damn. Damn it all to hell! I miss the old days of computing of freeware...

                  There's been enough shit going on with operating systems that I'm now thinking about signing up on Patreon [patreon.com] for the first time to support Linux Mint [linuxmint.com]. The only OS that still works the way I like.

                  I guess Microsoft's plan for an OS subscription is actually happening for me, the only difference being that their efforts are making me want to ensure that a viable alternative remains alive and well

              • by Xenx ( 2211586 )
                While I too prefer Classic/Open Shell on my systems, I'm stuck using default at work. It's definitely not bad. My preferences are based on 20+ years of use and not on the actually capabilities of the new menu.
            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday November 29, 2018 @05:28AM (#57719450) Homepage Journal

              My experience of Windows 10 has mostly been blighted my the forced restarts, until I found out how to turn them off.

              For reference go to %windir%\System32\Tasks\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator, rename the "Restart" file and create a folder called "Restart" so that Windows can't re-create it.

              Other than that it's okay. Multiple desktops are nice, although it resets the order of items on the task bar whenever you switch. It's janky crap like that which never gets fixed that erodes what little faith I had in Microsoft after Windows 7 was actually kinda good.

              The start menu is still a crap way to organize apps.

              • by Xenx ( 2211586 )

                The start menu is still a crap way to organize apps.

                They tried to get rid of it, but that went over so well with the users.

                Functionally the current start menu isn't really better or worse than in the past, only different. But, that's only based on how I use it. I'm sure there are better interaction options, but a lot of people spent a lot of time barely learning to function with the way it was. Change it too much and they'll just not try to cope. Personally, 99% of the time I use the start menu it's to do one of a couple entirely simple things that I could

                • by Voyager529 ( 1363959 ) <voyager529@ya[ ].com ['hoo' in gap]> on Thursday November 29, 2018 @11:59AM (#57720442)

                  The start menu is still a crap way to organize apps.

                  They tried to get rid of it, but that went over so well with the users.

                  Functionally the current start menu isn't really better or worse than in the past, only different...

                  Amongst the things that the Win7 start menu did well was to give a number of options. Preferred applications can be pinned, the entries can be searched, and the complete index can be browsed if needed.

                  The single biggest issue with the newer iterations of the start menu is the lack of information density. 48 entries per column, and six columns, fit on a 1920x1080 screen. That's nearly 300 entries before a scroll mechanism would be required. The Win8 start menu could fit 48 entries on the same screen size...but for what? I'm not touching my screen, and I'm not sitting ten feet away that I need the large type, and there's no way to increase that density. There is zero improvement to be had from the tile paradigm. Even live tiles with their whole "at a glance" defense means that tiles don't look the same when you're looking at them. If a dashboard was something worth pursuing, then developing widgets and the sidebar was really what MS needed to do.

                  Moving on from sheer information density, admittedly not the most intuitive means of doing so, but a whole lot of the common control panel applets are two clicks away. Network connections, system information, drive mapping, and printer adding were all very simple to access. Perhaps there's a case to be made for right clicking the start menu to get to several of them, but the appy-app Settings options are still not at 100% feature parity from the Control Panel, even ignoring third party entries like nVidia or M-Audio or Rane.

                  Finally, let's talk about search. There's no cue to enter text; I cannot count how many times I've been on a support call when I've been like "just type...I know it doesn't look like you can, but trust me, you can...just type...I promise it will work...JUST. TYPE." The search bar in the taskbar is dumb because it takes up space for running program entries. But anyway, the biggest issue is that searching for applications means the machine also searches the file system for things, and Bing for internet searches. Sorry, zero defense on that one, either. Bing searches on the start menu? That make application searches take longer?

                  There is not a single change to the Win10 start menu that is an objective improvement over Classic Shell. Not once has anyone been able to say "this function is better". If you like it, and I mean this 100% sincerely, I am happy for you. I simply haven't been able to share in your affinity for the changes.

                  • Seems like UI is driven more by "artists" then by functionality. Another enterprise level package did a major update. The UI is all fancied up and "purty", but the amount of info I can see is now drastically limited. I don't need pretty that gets in the way of doing my job. So I use the old interface and will do so until it's taken away.
              • Nothing Microsoft has ever done is a good way to organize apps. KDE 3.5 had the best way to organize computer applications, and I had independently come up with a similar system for organizing my apps around the days of NT 4 or Windows 2000.

                The Start Menu is one of the worst anti-features ever written.

        • Yeah right "instantly". Half the time you type the next letter of the word you're looking for and the results disappear. Then when you finish typing the word then you see what you're looking for. Windows file searches are the slowest fucking thing in the world. There is a program simply called "everything" that searches all your drives in real time.

        • by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:39PM (#57718106)

          90% of the time it can't do a simple search.

          For example, I'm remotely connected to a box that brings up only web searches and unrelated store apps for:

          D
          De
          Dev
          Devi
          Devic
          Device
          Devices
          Devices
          Devices a
          Devices an
          Devices and
          Devices and
          Devices and P
          Devices and Pr
          Devices and Pri
          Devices and Prin
          Devices and Print
          Devices and Printe
          Devices and Printer

          But returns the expected result for:
          Devices and Printers

          This same box will list Adobe Acrobat DC as a tile when I open the start menu, if I'm lucky fo rit to be chosen. But if I open it and it's not chosen, or if I open it and start typing Adobe Acrobat DC, it will not be shown.

          And I've encountered the "Start menu won't open; programs won't run; reinstall, bitch." bug on fresh, clean installs plenty of fucking times.

          Windows 10 is shit.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            That could be because Devices and Printers doesn't exist on Windows 10 any more...

            It's still broken though. The new equivalent is "Devices" in the Settings window. But searching for "devices" won't find it. It only finds sub-items like "Bluetooth and other devices".

            • No, it does exist. The entirety of the win7 control panel, and all of its items exist in windows 10. They hide it as hard as they fucking can, because they want you to use "settings"..... which half of the time doesn't have the functionality you need, so you have to go to the legacy control panel anyway. "Settings" is such a flaming piece of unfinished garbage that they have to hide the control panel.
            • That could be because Devices and Printers doesn't exist on Windows 10 any more...

              Wrong, as usual.

              Go ahead and repeat the exact thing I showed.

          • by orient ( 535927 )
            Classic Shell lists "Devices and Printers" when I reach "de".
        • by hudsucker ( 676767 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:41PM (#57718342)

          For one thing, the Windows 10 Start Menu doesn't allow for program subfolders.

          For example, if you had something like a "Microsoft Office" group, containing the key applications at the top level, but the lesser used utilities in a subfolder "Microsoft Office Tools", all of that nice structure is gone. It just throws all of the program icons into the single folder allowed per application.

          Microsoft's answer is, apparently, to redesign the application so it doesn't use the Start Menu for program links. But what happens when you have an application that was designed for Windows 7, which has a perfectly functional Start menu, that supports subfolders? It is just a horrid mess.

          And what possible reason is there for this limitation? Oh yeah: it is because Windows 8 was designed for tablets, not computers, hence the whole "metro" interface. For some reason Microsoft didn't bother to fix the Metro-emphasis in Windows 10, so we're stuck with limitations that make no sense.

          • "Limitations" ... I'd be with you if those "lesser used utilities" didn't amount to superfluous garbage, links to websites or text files, the help file, etc. I can't say I'm upset about the loss of this. These really ARE things that should exist from within the application itself.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            The basic concept of the start menu being a folder tree is flawed. Every app does its own thing so there is no top level organization, it's just a mixture of company names you quickly forget and app names you quickly forget. If you try to organize them they fight you and every update puts them back to the default location.

            Microsoft needs to start over with it. It's not easy when there is incentive for developers to spam the menu and desktop and task bar and everywhere else with their crap, but what it reall

            • The basic concept of the start menu being a folder tree is flawed. [...] Microsoft needs to start over with it.

              That is slightly annoying, but frankly irrelevant since Vista which solved the two big UI failures of Windows XP: Quick launch and a clogged start menu. Quick launch and half of the start menu fix is the taskbar with pinning, and the other half of the start menu fix was making the useful items float to the top and adding the search box. I almost never actually have to scroll the start menu; I either click the thing I want from the taskbar where it is pinned, click the thing I want from the top of the start

              • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

                I wish you could just search for the name of the app or a simple tag like "graphics" to show all graphics related apps.

                It would also really help if organizing he start menu was easier. Make it easy to group apps into categories and make sure that when they update they don't default back to the root level like they do now.

          • I can understand why they added that limitation. Everyone and their goldfish was using subfolders and polluting them with every damn useless thing imaginable. Links to uninstallers (Because the control panel wasn't good enough?) . Readme files. All sorts of nonsense, and just made everything convoluted and that much more difficult to find the thing you actually needed.

            OSX for example, allows for folders but generally discourages them unless there's a specific need for it. I find it jarring and irritatin

        • Not really sure what the problem with it is. It does the same thing as the win 7 start menu but with a search field you can type into instantly.

          So? The Windows 7 I had on my computer had a start menu with a search field.

        • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

          7 already had a search field, not that you need one with a decently organized start menu. The first thing they did wrong was make the start menu dynamic. A consistent start menu is more functional than one which mostly contains random entries. They systematically removed useful items like rapid access to the control panel and "my computer" or "this pc", which in turn was your rapid access to system properties. Oh and how about "Run."

          Yes there are ways around it. If you know the shortcut to open run it isn't

          • They systematically removed useful items like rapid access to the control panel and "my computer" or "this pc", which in turn was your rapid access to system properties. Oh and how about "Run."

            Have you tried right clicking on the start menu? It gives quick access to those things. It's one change I can get behind.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      i can't even believe this is what windows has become

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Focus groups opinions should be listened to. MS are still not listening to the we want to go back crowd.

      Lets us admit Win10 was going to be an IPhone killer, where Redmond dreamed Windows10 would quickly grab 50% plus of Apples captive market. Well, that did not happen, and an insecure crappy Android that now has a shelf life of less than 3 years - ate their breakfast.Clearly failed - bigtime.

      Part 2 was that the user to loose control. Telemetary, 100's of things doing things behind your back. Ram in Bing to

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:54PM (#57718170)

      The start menu has gotten worse and worse with each release and peaked somewhere around XP pro. 7 was the last functional one.

      IMNSHO, the Start menu peaked at Windows 2000. It was basic, utilitarian, and functional. RIP WIN2K.

    • by antdude ( 79039 )

      Use a third party instead?

    • Out of the box yes, fortunately it's not difficult to just disable those shitty tile things and make the start menu functionally no different than the one from Windows 7. I've defended Microsoft here a few times, but really the only thing defensible on this start menu is the ability to turn the useless shit off.

    • by AC-x ( 735297 )

      I disagree - Windows 10 start menu is by far my favorite implementation because it lets me arrange all the programs and utilities I use regularly in nice high-density icon grids so I can just launch the one I want straight away without having to scroll or open folder trees. Instant search always works for my apps too, but some people seem to have trouble with it not working..?

    • by chrish ( 4714 )

      I've been using Classic Shell http://classicshell.net/ [classicshell.net] since Windows 8. I'll keep using it until MS makes it incompatible somehow, unless MS manages to actually design their Start menu in a decent way.

      Pity Classic Shell's been abandoned since 2017 but if there's one thing Windows is good for, it's running legacy software...

    • I think many people would like MS to just release patches for stuff they broke in the last patch first before launching new features no one asked them to make.
    • The start menu has gotten worse and worse with each release and peaked somewhere around XP pro.

      I'd actually say it peaked with 7/Vista because of the search box. Every UI change Microsoft has made has been downhill since Win7.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    it was great. it was predictable, reliable, and just fucking worked. vista had one too. it was like that as well, and so was xp's. me and 98 and 95 and 2000 and nt all had them. and they all. were wonderful.

    8 did not have one. 10 **DOES NOT** have one

    10's "start menu" is the "start screen" from windows 8 shrunk down somewhat. tiles on one side and the 'app list' (from the downarrow on 8's start screen) on the other.

    classicshell, now known as, open shell is a god damn start menu. 10's is not. it's an abomina

  • by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @07:49PM (#57717870) Homepage Journal

    The latest patch fucks up your data, messes with dark theme, wipes out god only knows what else....and their solution is to make some icons shiny?

    Do I have that right?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:20PM (#57718004)

      Not only that, Edge currently breaks the network filesystem, system wide. Windows really has dropped below the usability threshold. Upload a file from a network drive to a website from Edge, and Edge locks that folder view across the entire system until all Edge instances exit. Windows explorer will show files that are not there anymore, update the files on the network share from another machine on the network and the Win10/Edge machine can only see the files that were when it uploaded a file. That's shamefully broken. After this, I can trust nothing Win10 does.

      Just today I reinstalled a laptop for a client that had their user profile data and files wiped because windows and hp silently dropped support for the HP Validity fingerprint scanner. If a user is using the fingerprint scanner for login and you remove the driver their profile gets wiped, login user files, the works. So windows update in the October update ever so helpfully decided to silently remove the driver. Poof! Your login and files are gone! Isn't that so much better now? Microsoft: "I'm helping!".

    • No. The patch that lets you copy a registry path, a basic setting in Windows, which is a system upgrade, fails to install on my pc.

      If you get it to the point of fucking up your data, you are further along than am I.

    • No you have this completely wrong. Their solution is to fix the problems in the patch (data deletion is fixed, iCloud issue fixed, Intel driver fixed, F5 VPN and Trend Micro issues are ongoing) while a different team is working on "improvements" for the next version.

      If MS stopped all development to fix bugs we'd still be using Windows 95.

    • Yes, although now, they've done the digital equivalent of a supermarket re-arranging all the shelves. It's all still in there, but you can't find any of it.

  • by HannethCom ( 585323 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:18PM (#57717994)
    Nope, still the useless crap that no one wants to use. I think the only reason for the new menu was to make people not want to use it, so they could have their stats show that people don't use the menu.
  • Busted RDP client (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:27PM (#57718052)

    First thing I noticed this morning (after the surprise restart) is the the RDP client was "improved" - Old version had been removed, when I clicked on it the new one downloaded.

    All settings and ~ 200 saved sessions gone.

    No actual improvement (actually removed functionality)- just so they could throw some lipstick onto the thing.

  • by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:41PM (#57718110)
    I mean, it would not be a Windows 10 upgrade if nothing ended up messed up.
    • The start menu. It's right there in the title. They touched it, so it stands to reason that it didn't survive.

  • by mcswell ( 1102107 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @08:48PM (#57718146)

    "...the Start menu which gets a touch of Fluent design, making it look *less* attractive."

    There, fixed it for you.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:28PM (#57718290)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Just what is it specifically that you need Classic Shell for? I'm curious. Personally I disable all that tile shit and then the Start Menu becomes very close to the traditional start menu found in Windows 7 and just turns into a list of programs with a link to documents, pictures and settings.

      What is missing?

  • by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Wednesday November 28, 2018 @09:40PM (#57718338)

    If MS really wanted to improve windows 10 they would start by moving PC Settings back to Control Panel. And don't install so many services and apps until the user starts them for the first time.

    • The vast majority of running services are manually triggered. Just because the user doesn't explicitly start something doesn't mean they aren't needed by something.

      As for moving the settings back... I don't care what they do as long as they all end up in the same place. Going to two different places is a pain in the arse. e.g. How come you can add and administer all bluetooth devices from the Bluetooth settings page but you can't connect to a bluetooth access point from there and instead need to open up Dev

      • The vast majority of running services are manually triggered. Just because the user doesn't explicitly start something doesn't mean they aren't needed by something.

        I have never once used the Store. Yet it keeps running with multiple processes. Calculator for some reason keeps running. From what I can tell you have to manually turn OFF the new Win 10 Apps (but you can't turn off Store). They will launch in the background and keep running until that time.

  • by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) * on Thursday November 29, 2018 @02:07AM (#57719098) Journal

    > "Icons have also been added to the power and user menus"

    Here we go.
    Did they decide to label them this time?
    Do they have any colour or shading?
    Do they even have a line / box indicating the shape and size of them or are they all meterial designed on to nothingness?

    Modern icons are terrible, thank goodness I don't do first level support anymore.

  • 2019 will be the year of the linux desktop!

  • Great but no one at Microsoft thought that people would like maybe drag and drop links from the start menu search to the desktop?

    Sometimes I wonder if anybody at Microsoft actually uses Windows.

  • Have they added back the seconds in the clock application or in any of the applets? There is currently no way for me to display a clock with seconds in Windows 10 (or I failed to find it). So if I need to adjust a watch I can't use my PC as a source. It is a pretty basic feature that was present in Windows presumably from version 1.0 and has been removed, with no replacement; because design I suppose.
  • Perhaps they will fix the Wifi that keeps disconnecting. Perhaps they will finish the user settings. Perhaps they will fix the bugs that let the users set default programs. Perhaps they will fix the Bluetooth file transfer, that thinks you want to okay every single transfer. Perhaps not, because Microsoft is an old top-heavy company filled with dead wood.

If you think the system is working, ask someone who's waiting for a prompt.

Working...