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Transportation Network

Yellow Vests Knock Out 60 Percent of All Speed Cameras In France (bbc.com) 417

Thelasko shares a report from the BBC: Members of the "yellow vests" protest movement have vandalized almost 60% of France's entire speed camera network, the interior minister has said. Christophe Castaner said the willful damage was a threat to road safety and put lives in danger. The protest movement began over fuel tax increases, and saw motorists block roads and motorway toll booths. Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor. The BBC's Hugh Schofield, in Paris, said evidence of the vandalism is visible to anyone driving around France, with radar cameras covered in paint or black tape to stop them working.
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Yellow Vests Knock Out 60 Percent of All Speed Cameras In France

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  • Glorious (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Quakeulf ( 2650167 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @08:03AM (#57942920)
    Now knock out those who run the banks.
    • by lgw ( 121541 )

      Now knock out those who run the banks.

      There's a plan for a run on the banks this weekend, I've heard. Nice idea, but I suspect the banks have plenty of legal protection against this, as in the US, and can just say "no".

      • Wrecking the financial system is not a *nice idea*. The people in the yellow vests will be the first to suffer.

        • by lgw ( 121541 )

          Wrecking the financial system is not a *nice idea*.

          Bankers keep telling me that. As long as deposits are insured by the government, every bank can collapse and nothing of value will be lost.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

            So who do you think insures the government?

            Exactly, yellow vests. They are essentially keying their own cars.

            • Re:Glorious (Score:4, Interesting)

              by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @10:25AM (#57943814)

              The French need to decide what kind of country they want to be. Issues like these should be resolved democratically, not through vandalism. Yet France has a long history of caving in to violent demonstrators, which has made street demonstrations more and more popular, and made any sort of sensible economic reforms impossible.

              The latest polls show that a majority of the French support the vandals and rioters.

              It doesn't have to be that way. They should look at Italy as a country that manages to be economically dysfunctional without political violence. France could do the same.

              • Americans used similar tactics to move the needles on civil rights, the Vietnam war, and the shitty police force in Baltimore.

                • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

                  Americans used similar tactics to move the needles on civil rights, the Vietnam war

                  The most influential protests in these movements were non-violent. The protests that were violent were likely counterproductive.

                  ... and the shitty police force in Baltimore.

                  The shittiness of the Baltimore PD has not changed. They have repeatedly been caught planting and falsifying evidence, with no more than administrative action against the criminal cops.

                  • Re:Glorious (Score:5, Insightful)

                    by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @12:08PM (#57944756)
                    They were counterproductive because they weren't violent enough. Clearly, the American Revolution was violent enough to be productive. :)
          • every bank can collapse and nothing of value will be lost.

            Definitely not the case as the government cannot faithfully insure all deposits in all banks. At some point the governments will collapse and the deposits will no longer be insured, and/or the currency they are based upon will be less valuable than toilet paper. This is an end-of-world scenario that always seemed more likely than an asteroid or super-bug. That said, these clowns do not have sufficient money on deposit to make that happen. They migh

        • What are you so afraid of? What is your stake in the banks? You really think your savings account is anything more than a "float balance = 123.03;"?
          • You really think your savings account is anything more than a "float balance = 123.03;"?

            I'm afraid that some day it will say 0.00 because the bank needs to shore up its reserves.

            Have you forgotten the 2013 Cyprus bank run ?

            • Have you forgotten the 2013 Cyprus bank run ?

              That happened because Cyprus does not control its own currency. America does. The Fed can handle any bank run by creating any amount of money needed.

              Currency unions such as the West African Franc [wikipedia.org] work well because the members have similar economies, and have a clear agreement that there will be no bailouts.

              The Euro tries to unify countries as different as Cyprus and Germany, with very different levels of income, productivity, and cultural expectations of financial responsibility. The convergence of inter

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 )

      The problems with banks and the poor is nearly a catch 22 problem, and oddly enough there isn't much the Bank Owners can do.

      To really succeed in life, you need money upfront. If you are young and can buy yourself a good working car that can last over a decade, and a good condition home where you don't need to pay rent, money to go to school and be trained to be well qualified for the workforce. So if you had all this money upfront and used it wisely. You can probably have a good life.
      The problem is most

  • by Anonymous Coward

    The 2010s will be known for invasion of privacy and technology used for evil.

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @08:10AM (#57942942)
    Speed cameras are a dishonest and regressive way to tax the population. Don't let local politicians sell you on BS that it is for traffic calming and safety.
    • by religionofpeas ( 4511805 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @08:25AM (#57942982)

      Of all kinds of taxation, I'd prefer the speed cameras, because I can avoid paying by sticking to the posted speed limit.

      • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @08:28AM (#57942998) Journal

        Except for the ones that malfunction. Funny how often that happens. Funny how in the US you have no right to challenge the payment in court if you think the device is broken.

        Far better to have a lottery, if you want a tax you can avoid paying. At least there somebody wins.

      • by dfghjk ( 711126 )

        Your comment amounts to "as long as your victimizing someone else I'm cool with it". Not a good look.

        Imagine a society that's paid for on the backs of the poor by telling them they are criminals and levying fines on them. Sounds like a society you prefer and that says a lot about you.

        Also keep in mind that when faced with a revenue shortfall, the "posted speed limit" is lowered until you're a tax payer too. That's how it works now at least in the US and sounds like it works that way in France, too. It's

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Unless they try to trick you into speeding. Say with a two lane open road that is normally 100 kph, then suddenly goes down to 80 with poor signage and the camera hidden behind a wall.

        I think people would be mostly okay with speed cameras if they appeared to be honest attempts to reduce road accidents.

        Also the mobile ones are just random number generates, totally worthless.

    • by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
      In my area it's now only legal to have a speed camera operating when there is an officer physically at the intersection.

      I don't think it's a good solution but at least it serves to limit the revenue stream for the company that operates them.
      • The problem is that it's a revenue stream at all. Over here, income from fines used to be off-budget and got dumped straight into the national debt. Then they changed the rules and added the income to the budget. And every year the take from fines has gone up, both nr of fines issued and the amounts have been increasing steadily.

        Now, if this was to improve road safety, you'd expect them to do 2 things: issue loads of fines to speeders to remind them that they're being watched, and have speed traps in
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It is illegal to drive over the speed limit. If yu break these laws you can be fined. Speed cameras are an automated method of fining people for breaking the law. If you don't want to pay the fine then don't break the law.

      • It is illegal to drive over the speed limit. If yu break these laws you can be fined. Speed cameras are an automated method of fining people for breaking the law. If you don't want to pay the fine then don't break the law.

        Yes, it is illegal to drive over the speed limit; but, I'm wary of any law that is violated by the majority of the population.

        Ideally, a free state wouldn't have any laws or regulations that the majority of the citizenry routinely breaks- when you have the majority of people being "law breakers", it's easy for authorities to abuse their power and target people they don't agree with (because they can point to laws they've broken).

        Dictatorships, and communist regimes regularly did this. If you make it imposs

        • Except in this case it is not impossible not to be a lawbreaker and if so many people violate the laws it is only because so many people are arseholes.

      • by kilfarsnar ( 561956 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @09:41AM (#57943374)

        It is illegal to drive over the speed limit. If yu break these laws you can be fined. Speed cameras are an automated method of fining people for breaking the law. If you don't want to pay the fine then don't break the law.

        Simple solutions for simple minds. The speed limit on most highways is too low. Modern cars a requite capable; they handle and stop very well. The fact is, traffic flow in my area is regularly at about 80 MPH on the highway, even though the limit is 65. When ~75% of people see no problem with breaking the law, it's not the people who are wrong, it's the law.

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Not every car on the highway is modern and well maintained. If 25% of cars are not safe speeding and go the speed limit, it creates problems due to the uneven speeds of vehicles.
          I've also observed that a lot of people, probably the majority, are idiots about slowing down when road conditions change. People still going 80 MPH in the pissing rain or snow. Enforcing lower limits corrects for this as well.
          Most people think they're better then average drivers, which can't be true. Often, they are good drivers bu

    • Just don't drive too fast. Dammit.

    • Speed cameras are a dishonest and regressive way to tax the population. Don't let local politicians sell you on BS that it is for traffic calming and safety.

      They have a point and they also don't have a point. There are speed camera firms that actually deliver presentations to municipal politicians on how they can 'maximise revenue' from speed cameras, I have seen camera footage taken by TV journalists who mounted a sting operation at a major speed camera exhibition in Europe. Those cameras these yellow vested hooligans can knock down for all I care. However, there is a street in my town where there are two schools and a communal home for blind people, the max s

      • You're lucky. After someone got killed in our street they did exactly nothing despite repeated petitions from the residents. After about 15 years they finally installed a bollard to block thru traffic at least.
    • With red light cameras the usual thing is to shorten the timers. First shorten the yellow light until you're caught doing it on camera and you lose court cases, then play games with the green light. In my area they would shorten green lights to 1 second on busy roads with no side streets to cause multi-hour delays, then they'd ticket drivers in the thousands who reasonably treated the signal as malfunctioning.
      The equivalent with speed cameras is to lower the speed limit. 'the government lowered the limit o
      • by Pascoea ( 968200 )

        In my area they would shorten green lights to 1 second on busy roads with no side streets to cause multi-hour delays, then they'd ticket drivers in the thousands who reasonably treated the signal as malfunctioning.

        I hope this is an exaggeration. If not, do you have any articles on the subject? That seems like it would be a situation where pitchforks and torches would show up at the governors house.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      Speed cameras are a dishonest and regressive way to tax the population. Don't let local politicians sell you on BS that it is for traffic calming and safety.

      If you hate Speed Cameras, move to South Carolina- not only are speed cameras not used, they're against the State constitution.

      Everything else in the state sucks, but at least there aren't any speed cameras for you to worry about.

    • Speed cameras have their place -- in residential areas where car traffic mixes with pedestrians and cyclists. Problem is that some areas implement them on highways with already ridiculously low speed limits.

      In residential areas, speed cameras are actually better if they can replace human cops who have more "discretion" to stop people because their car looks "suspicious." (Driver wrong color, car not new/posh enough, etc). At least speed cameras can't go on fishing expeditions, run the papers of all passe

  • by Laxator2 ( 973549 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @08:39AM (#57943052)

    Such a large-scale action is not done without some central organization.
    Obviously the union leaders know how much money the bosses pocked from the revenue generated by this cameras.
    By cutting this revenue the bosses are much more likely to listen to their demands.

    Also, it is a case of "You keep our pay low, we can lower your pay"

    • They are not organised - they have no leaders - the action is not coordinated
      They do not have one set of demands
      They do not have one agenda
      The unions are not in control ...

      Some of them have no real demands ...they just like attacking stuff ...

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @12:27PM (#57944918)

      Such a large-scale action is not done without some central organization.

      You'd be surprised how like minded people will copy good ideas from each other. Central organisation would be proven if it all happened at once. The yellow vests however have been best described as copycats at every stage of their protest.

      Oooh look 10 people in Paris occupied a toll booth! A day later you hear about gilets jaunes occupying toll booths over the country. It's very much a monkey see monkey do kind of a movement.

  • by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @08:41AM (#57943060)
    I got caught on a speed camera once because it was in a mobile unit and it was set up behind the speed sign. It caught me in the photo visibly behind the speed sign and obviously braking hard. I remembered the incident and knew that I had slowed down to the speed limit exactly at the sign; I had known the truck was there but didn't expect it to be set up so badly. I went to fight it and there was a five hour wait. I quickly calculated the cost of the ticket and the cost for me to wait and I paid the ticket sit nce it was cheaper.

    So, no, I am not a fan of speed cameras either.
  • > Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor.

    *which takes money from the speeders.

  • These devices may not be able to take pictures but they still measure speed. And the results are damning:

    They detect a 30 % increase [fr] of rides [yahoo.com] above the speed limit. The lessons of all this are clear:

    • Speed cameras work. It is not only a revenue source. It enforces the speed limit
    • 30% more french drivers are breaking the law and putting others life in danger
    • by dasunt ( 249686 )

      These devices may not be able to take pictures but they still measure speed. And the results are damning:

      They detect a 30 % increase [fr] of rides above the speed limit. The lessons of all this are clear:

      Part of the problem, at least in the US, is the idea that the success of a street or a road is measured by how many cars can travel on it (the road capacity).

      Which sometimes makes sense - that's a great way to measure an interstate between two places.

      But when it comes to streets and roads in close p

    • These devices may not be able to take pictures but they still measure speed. And the results are damning:

      They detect a 30 % increase [fr] of rides [yahoo.com] above the speed limit. The lessons of all this are clear:

      • Speed cameras work. It is not only a revenue source. It enforces the speed limit
      • 30% more french drivers are breaking the law and putting others life in danger

      The data are open to interpretation. The lesson to me is that the speed limit is too low, if so many people want to go over it.

    • by dfghjk ( 711126 ) on Friday January 11, 2019 @11:03AM (#57944190)

      "30% more french drivers are breaking the law and putting others life in danger"

      If you set the limit to 0 then 100% of drivers will break the law, yet that doesn't put "others life in danger". This is nothing but rhetoric.

      The percentage of drivers speeding is an indicator of the reasonableness of the limits, not of the behavior of the drivers. This has been known since at least the 70's, likely much longer.

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