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Businesses China Technology

Elon Musk Offered Chinese Green Card (politico.com) 181

Posted by BeauHD from the permanent-residency dept.
hackingbear writes: During Elon Musk's trip to China for the ground-breaking of Tesla's first overseas factory, which will allow it to sell vehicles directly in the world's largest market for electric vehicles, he was offered a Chinese green card when he met with Premier Li Keqiang on Wednesday in Beijing, where they discussed Tesla's China ambitions. "I love China and want to come here more often," Musk was quoted as saying in the report. "If you do, we can issue you a Chinese green card," the premier replied. Getting a Chinese "green card" has been described as "one of the most difficult tasks in the world." By 2017, only about 10,000 foreigners had been granted permanent residency since the program was introduced in 2004, out of an estimated 1 million foreigners living in China; recipients include Dutch scientist Bernard Feringa, who won the 2016 Nobel Prize in chemistry.
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Elon Musk Offered Chinese Green Card More

Elon Musk Offered Chinese Green Card

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  • It's a Trap! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DatbeDank ( 4580343 ) on Sunday January 13, 2019 @12:23PM (#57954672)

    Any business leader, especially one the caliber of Elon Musk, willingly visiting China is taking a massive risk given the geopolitical machinations going on.
    He'd have to be stupid to not think the Chicoms wouldn't in a heartbeat lock up the star of America's green tech.

    I'd sooner visit Afghanistan, Yemen, or Somalia over China. At least the risks are obvious. In China, your freedom is on the whim of some self serving bureaucrats looking to boost their social credit scores.

    No thank you!

    • Re:It's a Trap! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by dryriver ( 1010635 ) on Sunday January 13, 2019 @12:54PM (#57954798)
      Communists tend to "lock up" people with good intentions and high ideals - idealists, human rights campaigners, writers, intellectuals. Musk on the other hand is "billions of Dollars unencumbered by democratic ideals and human rights constraints just walked in the door" for China. Musk is exactly what they want - a wealthy industrialist who'll ignore China's horrific human rights abuses and manufacture and sell there anyway. Maybe they offered him the "Dragon Card" because he, for enough dough and benefits, offered to give China some of his SpaceX tech as well? The world is a complicated and often "upside-down" place. "Heroes of Innovation" are sometimes not "true heroes" in real life. A hero is someone who does NOT do anything he or she CAN do for big money. "Resisting temptation" and all that? =)
    • All he'd have to do is be caught on sovereign Chinese soil with so much as one joint and they'd throw him in prison for drug trafficking, and who knows what demands they'd make of the State Department to get him released back to the U.S..
      I think Musk can be fucking awesome, but let's face it, he's a loose cannon. He really needs a tough, competent assistant to keep him out of trouble.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Rei ( 128717 )

        "Loose cannon" is probably a fair label. That said, anyone who ever actually watched the Joe Rogan interview could clearly see that Musk has almost no experience with smoking pot. ;) That interview was great for cracking jokes, of course.

        That said, when it comes to China, it's clearly not about Musk; it's about much bigger issues. 4,5% of China's new car sales last year were electric - far higher than the US. China has now issued rules to make it almost impossible to build a new factory for making ICE veh

        • "Loose cannon" is probably a fair label. That said, anyone who ever actually watched the Joe Rogan interview could clearly see that Musk has almost no experience with smoking pot. ;) That interview was great for cracking jokes, of course.

          The interview was even better for distracting the tech news world on the day Tesla's new head of auditing resigned after less than a month. I'll give it to Musk, it worked.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Rei ( 128717 )

            LOL. Tesla has several dozen people at the VP level or higher. The average executive changes jobs every 3-5 years. At a high-stress company like Tesla with frequent changes in needs, you should expect significantly shorter.

            If you're going to freak out every time a person at the VP level or higher leaves Tesla, you're going to be freaking out a lot. But all means, please don't let that stop you. I love the ever-so predictable lows and highs in this stock. Good buy points wouldn't be so easy to come by if

        • China has now issued rules to make it almost impossible to build a new factory for making ICE vehicles in the country.

          False. If you can read Mandarin, you can read for yourself [ndrc.gov.cn]. SMALL companies will be stopped, but those big Government entities - Geely, BAIC, SAIC, BYD, and others are exempt. They can expand all they want. Why? They are Government owned, and the Government gets to do what it wants.

          And do you realize that Musk was really there to celebrate the opening of a Chinese factory that carries the Tesla name? It's not a Tesla factory - car factories/companies in China must be at least a joint venture, and must

          • China has already figured out two important things. Build a large military to keep aggressors out, but conquer others through economy & control of it. They have learned the American way... military is only used against the weak nations in a post WW2 world, otherwise regulate/control everything they can under the guise of protecting you.

            Nothing is mightier than money/power. It is the beast that drives war/conflict, and no other. If someones tells you that a war/conflict was fought for a reason other

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Rei ( 128717 )

            Cough. [financialpost.com]

            BEIJING — Electric car producer Tesla will build its first factory outside the United States in Shanghai, becoming the first wholly foreign-owned automaker in China.

            Seriously, google it [google.com].

            As for your PDF:

            Chapter III Fuel Vehicle Vehicle Investment Project
            Article 11
            It is forbidden to construct the following fuel vehicle investment projects (not sold in China) Except for investment projects for sale of products):
            (1) Newly built independent fuel vehicle enterprises;
            (2) Existing automobile enterpris

            • Those WFOE rule changes for automotive don't kick in until 2022 [industryweek.com] - if ever (China is famous for slow-walking regulatory changes). Current rules [gettingthe...hrough.com] ban WFOE status for automotive factories. Since this factory is breaking ground, the controlling entity already exists - and that means it is majority owned by Chinese entities. By law.

              As far as the ICE rules - read it yourself. There is an exemption for investment projects. Guess what - nearly every large Chinese company is considered an investment project, and

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by Rei ( 128717 )

                Tesla was granted an exception to WFOE rules. I'm not sure why you're having trouble following links or using Teh Google. 2022 is when the rule change goes through and applies to everyone.

                And foreign automakers operating in China disagree with you about whether this rule change effectively prohibits them from starting new factories in the country.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by Rei ( 128717 )

                  Or to put it another way: if you don't believe that GF3 is fully foreign owned (by Tesla), by all means, go ahead and name their (fictional) Chinese partner.

                • I followed the link - it didn't say what you hope it says. And as far as foreign automakers in China think - of course they come to their conclusion. For them, they cannot be an investment project. An investment project is pretty much limited to Government owned ventures - like car makers. If you're a WFOE, you're out of luck - but if you're China-Government owned, you can make ICEs.

                  • Re: (Score:3)

                    by Rei ( 128717 )

                    Literally every article on the subject says the exact same thing: Tesla's GF3 is the first fully foreign owned auto factory in China and they were granted an exception for this. Tesla has no Chinese partner in the project. Period. Google it. If you want to keep asserting something against all very accessible facts, then by all means, cite Tesla's fictional Chinese partner.

                    I'm waiting.

                    • OK - point to one since my GoogleFu isn't strong enough, apparently. As far as ownership - it's not a publicly traded company, so ownership is not disclosed. Like in the US - private companies do not have to disclose ownership.

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by Rei ( 128717 )

                      I literally gave you a Google search result in which every single article talked about the topic. And (for the third time!), I'll repeat: "If you want to keep asserting something against all very accessible facts, then by all means, cite Tesla's fictional Chinese partner. ... I'm waiting."

                      How many times are you going to dodge that? Let me take a wild guess: you're going to respond yet again, without a name for the fictional "Chinese partner".

                    • Eventually one must admit that one has been arguing with a brick wall, and leave the wall in peace to do its job of holding down the floor.

            • Ironically China has this right but of course being China they're going about it in the most draconic authoritarian way possible, literally forcing their will on everyone they can. ICEs have to become obsolete sooner rather than later; fossil fuel use needs to end sooner rather than later. Waiting for it to become scarce is too long to wait. Electric ground vehicles are the future and the world needs to embrace it not fight against it. The sooner it's widely adopted as standard the sooner R&D into thing
      • The thing is ... he doesn't even smoke that much weed. (and it's legal under California law). Coke, though. that's another thing. E has a nose like a vacuum cleaner.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      They are only doing it in retaliation for what the US and Canada did.

    • Cold War feelings again...

    • Re:It's a Trap! (Score:5, Informative)

      by Gavagai80 ( 1275204 ) on Sunday January 13, 2019 @03:35PM (#57955610) Homepage

      Musk is from South Africa. He lives in the USA because it's expedient. He's not some American agent pushing America's agenda, and China knows that.

      The risk of landing in prison is far, far higher in the USA than in China for anyone who isn't a political activist. The USA has 4% of the world's population and 22% of the world's prisoners.

  • "Lots of pedos, plenty of places to dig a hole in the ground."

  • Even if it was absolutely free, there's no way, even in the shady side of hell, that I would want to live in China; much less visit the country. As much as I hate that beady-eyed little hamster, Elon Musk, I wager that he probably had to stifle a laugh at the offer.

  • ... and it's a beautiful thing. Much better than Musk's failing green card. Sad. Melania got an expedited green card.

  • ...when the electrical vehicles are being made right under your nose. And by the way, is it ethical at all to manufacture anything in a 1 billion strong COMMUNIST country where citizens have minimal rights, if any? Couldn't you make stuff just as cheaply in Ghandi's India, where - at the very least - people get to vote in local and national elections, and might want a factory job or two to feed their children as well? Couldn't you manufacture cheaply in Vietnam, Bangladesh or Africa, or Latin America as wel

    • You seem to be an idiot.
      Against popular believe: they have elections and voting in China, too.
      And: Vietnam is a "communist" country, just like China.

      There are dozens of underdeveloped but reasonably FREE countries where people need jobs just as badly as China
      Underdeveloped as in: not developed enough to run such factories ... so why do you want to produce anything in a country that can't produce it?

      • Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech... (Score:4, Informative)

        by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Sunday January 13, 2019 @02:13PM (#57955206) Journal

        LOL! Voting in China? You've ever lived there, or have Chinese family? Not a chance! The party controls all [wikipedia.org], down to the local level. IF your family is chosen as one that gets a vote (not all families get the right to vote), the Party chooses which member of your family gets to vote. It is 100% fascist/dictatorship based Government. There is a vote as much as there were votes for Saddam Hussein.

        Here are the results of the latest 2018 election [wikipedia.org]; the closest race was Zhang Jun who ran for the Minister of Justice, he sqeaked by with just 99.49% of the vote - that is a nail-biter in China!

        There are NO elections in China, it's window-dressing only for outsiders to feel better about the Country. All positions are pre-selected, pre-arranged, and done only with the blessing of the Central Communist Party leadership only.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        For people approved by the Communist party. Just like the Soviet Union, East Germany.

        • East Germany actually had more than one party ... and you were obliged to vote, so nothing about "approval".

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AHuxley ( 892839 )
            The other party was fully approved by the East german government :)

            • The other parties were about a dozen.

              And obviously parties need to be approved, or they would not be able to run in elections. Or how do you actually do it?

    • Couldn't you make stuff just as cheaply in Ghandi's India

      No. Absolutely not. India is far more corrupt, bureaucratic, and inefficient than China. Chinese workers are four times as productive as Indians. All the supply chains are in China, and it is easy to find people with manufacturing expertise.

      Plus is China, the corruption WORKS: You bribe one guy, and you get the permit to build your factory. In India, you bribe one guy, and he steps aside so you can deal with the next bureaucrat with his hand out. It can take years to get a license to operate a fruit

      • China is far more prosperous because... erm... some people with great POWER and ZERO ETHICAL CONCERNS decided to M-A-K-E CHINA PROSPEROUS. There is NOTHING special in any way about China as a manufacturing location, unless you are a LEFT IDEOLOGUE masquerading as a WESTERN CAPITALIST. =) There are at least 70 cheap countries in the world that could manufacture ANYTHING China can given a fraction of the investment. But the BIG MONEY from around the WORLD is being FUNNELED to China. Of course that makes sense

    • Couldn't you manufacture cheaply in Vietnam, Bangladesh or Africa, or Latin America as well?

      1. all these countries also violate intellectual properties left [googleusercontent.com] and [googleusercontent.com] right [qz.com]. All developing countries, including the USA itself [google.com], violate intellectual propertiesen mass during the early days of its industrialization. (And they will all become patent trolls once they become developed.)
      2. like the US, China has entered an era post low-end manufacturing and therefore boost its intellectual property [xinhuanet.com] protection [forbes.com] as a way to move up the economic food chain. This is the real reason the US is so afraid of China now: o

    • Because you can build large things in China without having hordes of hippie moms or Westwood real estate snobs sue you into oblivion. Musk drilled a short section of urban transit tunnel near Dodger Stadium because it's a good place to show off concept demos to investors, but if he wants to install a prototype transit line under the streets of a real city, it's going to have to be in China.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jrumney ( 197329 )

      ...in Ghandi's India

      Ghandi is currently polling 23%, against Modi at 41%. The era of the Ghandi family dynasty is not about to be revived.

  • Now an Elon Musk thread. I suppose we were due.

    I have been repeatedly assured with great Reason and Authority on this very web site that Elon Musk is a fake. Delusional. His engineering is crap. His books are cooked. There is no way he will ever make a profit. His quality control is just shit. The cards burn and the wheels fall off. He will never be able to scale his manufacturing. He lied to investors. The employees are all in open revolt. Every other car manufacturer in the world is going to eat

  • From my 10,000' view... (well actually 10,000km, I'm in New Zealand)...

    China does seem to be moving forwards and advancing technologically much faster that America and has the resources to do what Elon wants. China on the moon... China and their Tesla equiv... China and solar...

    America, especially at the moment with their current leader, seems to be going backwards with Elon the only real light shining out of that country... America does have big clubs to beat every one else about the head with though.

  • Give him the card. Maybe he'll stay.

  • Personal experience (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fubarrr ( 884157 ) on Sunday January 13, 2019 @01:59PM (#57955154)

    Personal experience:

    Chinese green card is a thing about which people have very mixed feelings. Application chances are totally random, privileges are a mixed blessing. Chinese state does not give a consistent message about what people should to expect from it.

    In other words, it is a very hard to get, yet near meaningless document in comparison to 5 and 10 year work visas, aside you becoming fully subject to the glorious Chinese legal and tax system...

    I knew one brilliant expat entrepreneur, undoubtedly a woman of exceptional achievement.

    She lived in China since she was 14. She got her PhD in nanotechnology at 26, and by 27 she had an own chemical business that she made with money she won from "1000 talent plan" â" a national level scientific grant.

    She owned a number of patents, and spoke 5 languages freely (including 2 Chinese dialects,) and she was a stunning tall beauty on top of that...

    I would've said that is somebody was an ideal applicant, it would be her. She went to apply for that green card, and got a refusal notice _the next day_ with reason stated along the lines "we considered your high achievements, but you are too young and lack class..."

    The attitudes of Chinese elites towards things like talent, merit, entitlement and personal achievement had not changed much in past decades. China was and is an extremely elitist and snobby country.

    This attitude is pretty much telling "talented youngsters have no value besides being patronees,
    and pages to the elite"

  • People are LOW on the pole in China. POWER & technology rule the boat over there. Humans, are "subjects"...be it slave labor, or what not. To do what the STATE wants.

  • I’ve read the summary; I’ve read the comments... but I’m still unclear on why I should care in the least whether or not Elon Musk gets a green card from China.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by m00sh ( 2538182 )

      I’ve read the summary; I’ve read the comments... but I’m still unclear on why I should care in the least whether or not Elon Musk gets a green card from China.

      China - lots of hate

      Musk - lots of hate and lots of stans.

      China and Musk in the same article? Click gold mine!

  • ...and give up his rights, just like all other Chinese people, so they can force him to transfer technology for EV cars and SpaceX tech, on his next visit.

  • The PRC is shrewd enough to keep a tight lid on foreign access to industry and education since they would not want foreign nationals doing the same IP theft that the PRC does does by stuffing people into other states industry and education system. Then of course there is also the Billions someone like Mush would bring in hard currency were he to consider setting up shop in the workers paradise.

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