Windows 7 Enters Its Final Year of Free Support (arstechnica.com) 216
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Windows 7's five years of extended support will expire on January 14, 2020 -- exactly one year from today. After this date, security fixes will no longer be freely available for the operating system that's still widely used. As always, the end of free support does not mean the end of support entirely. Microsoft has long offered paid support options for its operating systems beyond their normal lifetime, and Windows 7 is no different. What is different is the way that paid support will be offered. For previous versions of Windows, companies had to enter into a support contract of some kind to continue to receive patches. For Windows 7, however, the extra patches will simply be an optional extra that can be added to an existing volume license subscription -- no separate support contract needed -- on a per-device basis. These Extended Security Updates (ESU) will be available for three years after the 2020 cut-off, with prices escalating each year.
Maybe the year of Linux on the desktop (Score:2)
Re: Maybe the year of Linux on the desktop (Score:2, Funny)
You grossly underestimate how terrible GNU/Linux is. There isn't even desktop environment that doesn't resemble a half-aborted fetus.
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Still, that's a moving goalpost.
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>won't use linux because the interface sucks
>mint's interface is very good
>won't use linux because it can't run my programs
But the first comment was anonymous. So if that wasn't you, then the moving goalpost was unintentional, but that's the impression I got.
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Completely meaningless if your software is only supported on Windows 7 .... I run into this many times in the medical software industry.
Get back to me if I ever have a career change into the medical software industry.
Re:Maybe the year of Linux on the desktop (Score:4, Interesting)
We've been actively investigating alternatives since the point where you could no longer buy new machines with Windows 7 preinstalled. Running smaller businesses, you're typically on Pro rather than the enterprisey/volumey alternatives, so 10 doesn't look like a viable option and the paid ongoing support for 7 is of limited relevance. However, the need for everyone to run the exact same thing on every computer is also much less than organisations with hundreds or thousands of staff. Everything is customised to each user's needs anyway, so having people with newer machines running different software isn't necessarily a problem in this sort of environment.
Currently we're erring towards Linux but also keeping around some Windows 7 machines. We do use a few very expensive specialist packages that are either only available on Windows or expensive if we wanted to acquire further licences on other platforms, so retaining some Windows systems is important. However, based on watching what's happened in recent years, both in terms of actual behaviour of Windows and the strategy/attitude of the leadership at Microsoft, our judgement is that the risk of bad things happening to our businesses on Windows 7 even with no further security patches after this time next year is much lower than the risk due to Windows 10 compromising or breaking something.
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Currently we're erring towards Linux...
Is that the right verb?
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Apparently leaving Windows world is considered a sin!
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Some shops are moving the Windows 7 machines to remote desktop access only, isolated from the internet. Could be the old physical machines or multiple VMs. The just run the Windows exclusive apps and everything else runs locally on Linux client machines.
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I could see that working in some places, sure. It's less practical if your Windows-only software involves high-end graphics of any kind, when you really need to be physically at the computer.
Even if you're still working on a PC on the desk in front of you, I consider the risk relatively low. It's not as if anyone's relying only on Windows updates or even those updates plus someone's antivirus software for IT security in almost any office environment. I'd be far more concerned about something like a browser
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At $work we are also looking into making MS "less relevant". i.e. searching out ways to replace most of the servers "in the back" so we're not so tied to Microsoft's whims and shenanigans. My holy grail would be to get rid of Microsoft entirely, but I'm not sure I'm ready to fall on that sword.
This way, since our main line of business application would no longer be coupled to Microsoft, it would buy us time to move to Windows 10 on our terms, not MS's. It would also then give us time to investigate des
Still better than that Spyware Win 10 (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd rather take my chances with "unsupported" Windows 7 (been running with automatic updates disabled for years) then allow that MS spyware garbage on my networks and risk updates that break. Nothing will change next year except maybe more computers running Win 7 inside VMs.
Telemetry should be OPT IN, not opt in. If MS can't even respect my wishes then I can't respect their forced downgrades.
--
NEVER mix business with pleasure; your business will get fucked over by someone who enjoys the pleasure
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Whoops that should read:
default telemetry should be OPT IN, not opt out.
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It should be an optional download, that software should be missing from the default all togethor and never installed, also ZERO forced software installs, every update a user choice and every software package fully detailed and anonymous updates. All of which they will straight up refuse, their response, fuck you we own your digital life, don't like it fuck off. They only sane responce is to dump M$ and fuck off else where. Shite company with Shite software and that is that.
Re: Still better than that Spyware Win 10 (Score:4, Informative)
Guys, seriously. Windows 10, run blackbird. Be happy.
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Has anyone done any proper tests with Blackbird? From the readme and the claims made on the website it sounds kinda sketchy.
For example they say it blocks hosts but doesn't use the hosts file or Windows firewall, so how does it work? I'm guessing some kind of virtual network driver that it funnels everything through, which sounds janky and doesn't work well with VPNs. In fact the readme notes that VPNs are an issue and it can break local network discovery.
The readme also notes that it breaks virtual desktop
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it uses static routes.
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Interesting. Should be effective, but probably not compatible with VPNs etc.
This is starting to be a big problem that needs some new technique to resolve it.
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the static routes all have metric 1 (highest priority). i have several VPNs of different types (MS, Cisco, Pulse, openconnect, softether) and all of them have routes with higher (lower priority) metrics.
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Yeah... The web site says something about VPN issues, I guess because some of them try to block certain traffic to prevent "leaks". Might give it a go, test it out in a VM. Thanks.
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Try Windows 10 Enterprise.
You can fully disable telemetry. You can go onto the slow update stream where only security stuff gets pushed regularly, everything else is delayed until it's been well tested by people running Home/Pro. All the built-in advertising and other random consumer oriented crap is disabled.
It's expensive but also compatible with AutoKMS/Microsoft Toolkit.
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I'd rather take my chances with "unsupported" Windows 7 (been running with automatic updates disabled for years)
Slashdot. Where anti-vaxxers are universally hated, except when we're talking about technology. Then they are "insightful".
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Why not simply go to Mint directly then? You're simply delaying the inevitable, and chances are good that when push comes to shove, you'll grumble a bit about Windows 10 and... Switch to it, grudgingly, because it is the only thing you can run that satisfies your criteria.
There's literally no reason not to be running Linux now, unless you have a very specific program you cannot run under Linux for some reason. If that software is a game, then you are saying a game is more important than your privacy. If it'
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Hmmm, which shit sandwich will I eat today?
I skipped Win8 for a very specific reason: by seeing how shit Win10 is I decided that any tinkering with Win8 was a waste of time as the next progression will only lead to a dead end.
So my use of Windows ends with Win7. I do keep a couple of Win10 VMs for testing and developing software for my customers that request it. But everyone I supply software to is asking whether *I* can fix the problems they're having with Win10. I am suggesting Linux for desktop programs
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Same here. I've got a laptop with what I expect to be my last Windows install--and it only exists to run a Debian VM right now. Windows 7 is the end of the road for me.
I'm also kicking the Debian habit because it's become impossible to avoid systemd. Once that box dies, it's getting replaced with a Devuan box. I've invested some time recently in brushing up on OpenBSD, and that's my new solution for servers.
*nix wasn't broke. Didn't need fixing. Windows was tolerably useful, didn't need fixing, but they bro
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I've got 8.1. I like it better than Windows 7, but I had to do some registry change to get rid of the fat borders. I don't mind the flat look but was always annoyed by the overly glossy look of Windows 7. It also uses slightly less memory than Windows 7 did (on the same computer). It doesn't have the forced upgrades of Win10; possibly it has the same telemetry but then so dows win7. The "metro" stuff you can ignore, just boot straight to desktop.
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I'm already plagued with that when I use Linux
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Telemetry had been added to Windows 7 some time ago. You should check.
I turned off Win7 updates some time ago. I will check anyway.
I put out an email this morning. (Score:2)
The last line reads..... "It will be painful, time consuming, disruptive, expensive, and absolutely necessary."
Last good Windows OS (Score:2)
MS Exec #1: Our users love Windows 7 and say it actually works relatively well. How should we proceed?
MS Exec #2: KILL IT! BURN IT WITH FIRE!!! Then replace it with a bloated garbage OS that nobody wants.
MS Exec #1: Genius. I'll have our best people get right on that.
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MS Exec #1 : A stable OS that works well means none of our customers will need to buy another OS from us.
MS Exec #2: That is why it needs to die.
Re:Last good Windows OS (Score:4, Interesting)
Except that Microsoft has always made most of its Windows revenues from volume licensing and preinstallation on new PCs anyway, and neither of those is particularly affected by the current version being stable because big organisations still want updates and new computers still need an OS. In my entire life, I think I've bought an off-the-shelf copy of Windows on physical media exactly once, and the staff looked at me all funny like.
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Except that Microsoft has always made most of its Windows revenues from volume licensing and preinstallation on new PCs anyway,
But they are not going to say no to getting additional revenue in any other way they can. Especially as not so many people buy new PCs these days. Not since the days of Windows 95/98/ME do most people buy a newer off-the-shelf copy of Windows for an existing PC - as your own anecdote confirms. Instead they buy a new PC with the newer Windows pre-installed, as you also say. But they generally do so because they want the newer copy of Windows, not because they need a new PC*. The them the OS is the PC (th
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MS Exec #1: Genius. I'll have our best people get right on that.
Me: You clearly haven't read the company guidelines, otherwise you'd know that we always put our worst people on stuff like that.
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MS Exec #2: Well, don't look to Slashdot for advice, because literally any decision we make will be the 'wrong' one according to them.
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No you can't.
As a small business user I can only purchase Windows 10 "Professional".
There is no way for me to regulate the update and reboot process. Yes, there are ways to defer it. Yes, it can be scheduled. But it can't be deferred indefinitely. There are two sticking points here that may not fit your own impression of the use-case:
1) My computer is running important tasks continuously and if I need it to run for 6 weeks without a restart then so be it - why can't I do this?
2) Even if my tasks are shorter
Re: Last good Windows OS (Score:2)
You can defer updates indefinitely. Get over it already.
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Gesus christ. Do you use this OS? Do you use it regularly? Is it the "Professional" version?
I can set the "Active Hours". The active hours are configured so that within any 24 hour block there will always be a period of time outside the active hours. Microsoft uses this period of time to apply forced updates, some (not all) of which will reboot the system, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS DOING.
How do you not understand this?
Here are some related articles on the topic. Most interest is from users wanting to stop Wi
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just... breathe, man. seriously.
i'm not going to tell you how to do what you want, but i'm here to tell you it _is_ possible. you're just looking in the wrong place.
Indefinite deferral (Score:2)
Log in to your router and blacklist all Microsoft sites.
There you go - no more Windows 10 updates.
If you should happen to want an update or two, then remove Microsoft sites from the blacklist until you are done.
I enter my last year using MS operating systems (Score:2)
Sorry, I've had nothing but trouble with Win10 and when I've put in bug reports they've been ignored. Cap that off with forcing me to login with a Microsoft ID and the various emails telling me how I can earn points.
Adios!
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You can skip the Microsoft ID. You have to do this during installation, and they don't make it obvious how to do so. I am unsure if this can be fixed after installation has finished.
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Oh wait, you can switch to a local ID after-the-fact. See this https://www.austintechnology.c... [austintechnology.com.au] and skip to the part where it says what to do if you already set up a Microsoft account.
You should consult for Acer, HP and Lenovo (Score:2)
As seeing how the the Win10 laptops I've bought over the past couple of years have never given us any option other than to set the systems up or login with a Microsoft ID.
Maybe you can login without an MS ID if you load from a disk/over the Interwebs, but not from the prepackaged machines I've seen.
Incidentally, the Acer is now running Mint and the HP is now running Ubuntu. The Lenovo is my daughter's and her college just provides Visual Studio so we're stuck there.
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You have a common misconception. Microsoft is a bit sneaky and devious in making it look like you absolutely must login with a Microsoft ID, but there is an easy to miss "small print" option during the initial unboxing of Acer / HP / Lenovo laptops that lets you create a local user ID instead of using a Microsoft ID. Here's a brief howto document that explains the process: https://www.austintechnology.com.au/log-windows-10-without-microsoft-account/
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Thank you - I don't think it's of much help now but if I ever have to get a Win10 machine in the future.
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My rule has always been to set up Win10 machines without a network connection. If there is no internet connection, it will default back to creating a local account. Also, setting up Win10 with a network connection means that it will try and run some hour-long update before getting you to the desktop. Doing the OOBE offline means it will be forced to wait to attempt to update, so you can start doing other stuff while it runs that update in the background. Why that's not its default behavior, I have no idea,
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At the page that asks you to set up a Microsoft ID, there is a "skip" button. Because even a prepackaged OEM version still doesn't know who you are and so it has to ask you for the (optional) Microsoft ID.
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If you're too stupid to look for it, or Google it, well, that's your problem.
How do you use Google Search without first setting up your first computing device? Stop what you're doing and wait for the public library to open? Buy a smartphone? Something else I didn't think of?
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Look it up before installing the OS? If it's a brand new computer and you have no other computing device, then yes, delay the installation until you have a chance to get to the public library.
On the other hand - when the page pops up telling you to create a Microsoft Account, that's the time when many sane people should be getting the WTF moment and decide to slow down. If at that point you're unsure and click the "skip this part" button then you've done the right thing and have skipped the part where you
Re: You should consult for Acer, HP and Lenovo (Score:2)
I would recommend waiting until that rock youâ(TM)re under is just eroded away naturally by the wind.
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He may find it hard to turn off his IT Help Desk persona that he uses at work when communicating elsewhere.
Windows 7 is Microsoft’s new nightmare (Score:4, Insightful)
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I think not. WindowsXP was a real nightmare and more of one due to changes in drivers, security, and things that had to run as a server rather as an admin, and most of all incompatible and different GPO (group policy objects) using admx instead of adm, and of course Internet Explorer 6 which apps still required back in 2014.
These problems are not present in 10.
No one cares about the spyware thing as their phones are far worse. Infact, MS realized what they collected. It is no keystroke logger and more telem
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In a sane world legal action would be taken to force Microsoft to make a fit for purpose successor to Windows 7, but Microsoft enjoys money too much and can bribe their way out of it.
I think the sane legal action would instead be a federal mandate that only a fit-for-purpose Win7 successor, with a perpetual licensing option, be the only legally allowed OS for any federal workstation projects. This would force MS to think real, real hard about whether they'll make more money with their telemetry than they would lose in government contracts. Now, the obvious loophole to this is for MS to make "Win10 fit-for-purpose: $100,000 MSRP for a perpetual license, Win10 FFP, $100/license for govern
Nope, hackintosh exists (Score:4, Informative)
OSX is shit, AND, the only way to get it is by purchasing horrendously overpriced crap hardware.
Even if you really don't like the hardware (which is mostly not overpriced), you can always build a hackintosh...
I still think OSX is nicer than even Windows 7, in many ways.
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That's why I still use Windows 2000 (Score:2)
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I've been saying for some time (including today to one of our customers) Windows 2000 was the best operating system Microsoft ever made. Fast, easy to use, able to accomplish what you wanted with ease. No harassment about this or that, no waiting for an explorer screen to "update" what was in the directory.
I dare say if I put a power supply in my W2K system at home it would still run faster than my work machine.
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Have a link to some firewall software since WIndows2000 doesn't even come with one or UPNP support for ports?
You can get 0wned in a heart beat today and I think Black Ice (If I remember the name as it's been almost 20 years) is what I had to use to keep the bad guys out of Netscape on it with my 56K modem.
Bloatware free Windows 10 might be OK (Score:2)
Dang, will have to roll a new blade server (Score:2)
Linux, here we come!
(no, seriously, that's exactly what we're doing with our few remaining Win 7 PCs, replacing them with Linux blade servers)
Last Win OS with Windows Media Center (Score:3)
I've been using Windows Media Center since the 90s to record free to air tv programs.
I'm wondering if anyone else out there has used or is using Windows Media Center. If so has anyone found better alternatives?
Windows 7 was the last OS which came with Windows Media Center, otherwise I'd probably have just upgraded the system.
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MythTV? Google it? It runs on FreeBSD and can be a great DVR
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Kodi is probably your best bet. Raspberry Pi, USB HDD for storage (or NAS), some USB tuners/capture cards.
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That would only get you another ~3 years of support anyway...
One year left (Score:2)
Only one more year to move over to Linux. I guess I need that kind of motivation, after all...
Microsoft has been insufficiently managed, also. (Score:2)
There are many ways in which Microsoft is insufficiently managed, also.
I posted this before:
Some of the many, many stories:
Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. [networkworld.com] "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC." (Aug. 4, 2015)
Microsoft's Intolerable Windows 10 Aggression [ecommercetimes.com] (May 27, 2016)
Microsoft is infesting Windows 10 with annoying ads [theverge.com] (March 17, 2017)
Microsoft, stop [infoworld.com]
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ERROR in my parent comment above: I'm tired. I need to take a nap. There are many ways in which Microsoft is insufficiently managed, also.
Do you mean inefficiently? Or do you mean they need more management? You really should take that nap right about now.
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Nice toy operating system you have there. When are you going to switch unix?
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Nice toy operating system you have there. When are you going to switch unix?
Maybe when the graphical interface stops being shit? Seriously, Linux as a kernel is very good but it fails on everything else that describes a good desktop.
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As example, for me the biggest of them is the lack of general consistency, on average each application is drawn in a different way, behaves differently to do the same actions (copy/paste? anyone?) and is installed differently (when the installer works or when they have an installer). Of course as a developer I sooner or later find a way to make it work, but in Windows I simply use the installer (which usually only fails in really unusual cases) and the applications behave
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(And if you do not believe me, pay attention to how most people advocate capitalism with the same religious fervor of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc etc etc)
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Trump is running
Yeah, right
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Which is why any true geek builds his or her own computer and gets LED lights to get the girls. ok ok I can dream on that last one.
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It isn't Microsoft's fault as to what crap applications are installed on said laptop.
I don't think he said it was all their fault.
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Know any Linux distros from 2009 that run on modern hardware and still supported?
Re: Why are they doing it this way, do they hate u (Score:2)
Not apples to oranges. I am a user who likes the way things were in 2009. I love gnome2. Can I get an Ubuntu 9.10 CD to load on a modern Ryzen 2700x with an rtx 2060 GPU? Windows 7 offers that and yet I see is whining and legal threats .
Also Windows 10 was free. What I did was upgrade so Microsoft had the keys to my CPU and motherboard then downgraded back. I waited for awhile long after the free upgrade but was licensed. I moved after I was ready. That is on you if you refused.
Also you're confusing Microso
Re: Why are they doing it this way, do they hate u (Score:5, Insightful)
Umm... ESCALATING? Do you mean free patches for a full decade, with a free upgrade path to the fully supported next generation of the OS, along with constant pleas to upgrade off your decade-old OS for the past several years? With *optional* extended support available for a fee for that small percentage of users who are unable or unwilling to relegate their decade-old to the dustbin of history?
Face it, OS technology moves forward, and unless you are still using Windows 1.0, this should not be a surprise to you.
If there was a better version of Windows to be purchased I would buy it and be happy about spending the money. So would a lot of other users.
The problem is Microsoft has neglected to release a viable replacement.
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you mean free additonal bloat and lower and lower quality with each release, with added spyware and bugs.
Microsoft is moving backwards, pal.
OS Technology? pfft, you mean more eye candy and bloat. hardly "technology"
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Billly Gates wrote :-
I can assure you that Windows 8.1/10 are remarkable faster and lighter. Especially once you turn the BIOS off and put on UEFI mode on an SSD. What took 35 to 45 seconds takes 6 seconds on Windows 10 because it doesn't do bios 1981 emulation bullshit when it loads the operating system.
So you really are Bill Gates then. I had thought your name here was just a joke.
BTW, I don't give a shit how long my OS takes to load, I rarely turn my PC off. That comment is addressed to systemd fans too BTW.
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You're confused. Actually running, Win 8 and 10 are each progressively slower on my PC. Who cares about initial load? Irrelevant when computation is slow when I'm working! My computer loads ANY OS faster than greased snot out of sneezing elephant anyway with my super duper solid state disk.
Windows 7 is by far the best performing when getting work done.
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I use TrueOS - formerly PC-BSD, which is FreeBSD+Lumina. I very much enjoy it, and have full control on it. Only thing I miss - having WiFi enabled on the thing, but I make do w/ the ethernet connection
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TrueOS is a buggy shitfest the first two or 3 times I tried it a few years ago.
If you are going to do FreeBSD at least do something stable and supported. It does require you to go to /usr/ports to get your GUI though
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I agree: it was horribly buggy - especially the updates system, which after updating, left me unable to boot to the OS. But after the latest iteration of TrueOS - which I bought from OSDisk - I found it just fine. They've stopped the updates, and I just use what's there
It's a joy to use in contrast to Windows 10 - I have 2 laptops, one w/ that, and the other w/ TrueOS. I find that the bulk of stuff I do can be done on TrueOS, and the Windows thing is there just in case I have to use a Windows software
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.... Let me guess.... 5 years from now, you are running Win10 and are happy with it.
Let me guess : in 5 years time, if you are running Win10 you will be having to pay for it by rental, otherwise left entirely behind with updates and be force-fed with nagging and adware crap. And you won't be happy with it.
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Per TFA, it is free until the given date, which is in the future. Parent was referring to the present. As for the present, the answer is that updates can be turned off.
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