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Facebook Businesses Social Networks Technology

Facebook Continued To Identify Users Who Are Interested in Nazis -- and Then Used the Info To Let Advertisers Target Them, Investigation Finds (latimes.com) 261

An anonymous reader shares a report: Facebook makes money by charging advertisers to reach just the right audience for their message -- even when that audience is made up of people interested in the perpetrators of the Holocaust or explicitly neo-Nazi music. Despite promises of greater oversight following past advertising scandals, a Times review shows that Facebook has continued to allow advertisers to target hundreds of thousands of users the social media firm believes are curious about topics such as "Joseph Goebbels," "Josef Mengele," "Heinrich Himmler," the neo-nazi punk band Skrewdriver and Benito Mussolini's long-defunct National Fascist Party.

Experts say that this practice runs counter to the company's stated principles and can help fuel radicalization online. "What you're describing, where a clear hateful idea or narrative can be amplified to reach more people, is exactly what they said they don't want to do and what they need to be held accountable for," said Oren Segal, director of the Anti-Defamation League's center on extremism. After being contacted by The Times, Facebook said that it would remove many of the audience groupings from its ad platform.

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Facebook Continued To Identify Users Who Are Interested in Nazis -- and Then Used the Info To Let Advertisers Target Them, Inves

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  • Sorry (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Shaitan ( 22585 ) on Thursday February 21, 2019 @02:34PM (#58159440)

    I support freedom of speech, even for scum like this.

    • Re:Sorry (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 21, 2019 @02:47PM (#58159522)

      It's not a freedom of speech issue. Facebook is a privately-run platform, not a government-run platform. Abide by the TOS or get tossed, simple as that.

      • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

        "Facebook is a privately-run platform, not a government-run platform. Abide by the TOS or get tossed, simple as that."

        And if all technology companies apply similar restrictions barring free speech contrary to our national values it becomes a monopoly issue. Also, if they do so and it is possible we should toss them, simple as that. Fortunately, facebook really doesn't offer anything that can't be easily replicated with a low investment.

        • This isn't about free speech, it is about whether advertisers should be able to target people with an interest in Nazism. It doesn't mention whether anyone ever used the category or what sort of ads were sent though. I think the idea is one could target pro-Nazi people and get them all riled up. Really just the PC mob in action, since nothing here indicates the target group was pro-Nazi as opposed to people with an historical interest.
          • You could also argue that if you wanted to target people with advertisements about getting yourself out of a hate group, you'd specifically want to aim it at people who are most likely to be in one.

            Your other point could be applied to any group. I could target people who are pro-abortion, anti-abortion, pro-gun, anti-gun, etc. and get them riled up. You'd need to explain what's so special about neo-Nazi skinheads that makes them different. I'm not particularly sure that they are that special and anyone t
          • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

            Hold on there a second partner, just because you referenced something does not mean you want to do it. Youtube is a real pain with regard to that. An odd video with some disturbed individual, what is going on here, wow, that's fucking stupid, don't want to see that again, WTF Youtube, now all the videos you present are about that stupid shite, fuck you YouTube. Erases youtube history to stop getting those videos.

            I have an interest a huge range of subjects, involving all sorts of human interactions, good, b

        • by hey! ( 33014 )

          So the government should compel private companies to carry their views on their private held servers, and connect advertisers to them?

          Anyhow, there's very little danger of a monopoly. A weblog is easy enough to set up, if Storm Front isn't your cup of tea.

        • facebook really doesn't offer anything that can't be easily replicated with a low investment

          How do you propose to get the user base with "low investment"? A FB clone with no users is worthless.

      • It's not that straight forward. The courts have already ruled that even private places can be considered public forums once certain criteria are met.
      • by lgw ( 121541 )

        It's not a freedom of speech issue. Facebook is a privately-run platform, not a government-run platform.

        Freedom of speech should apply to all public platforms, just like all public accommodations are prevented from racial discrimination.

        • Not all, just the ones that want common carrier protections from liability for content on their networks.

          I'm fine with that being their private business decision.

      • because, well, it's not. This has nothing to do with Freedom of Speech whatsoever.

        This is a privacy issue. Facebook Identified people interested in Nazi's and gave that information to advertisers. I can come up with lots of scenarios where that information could hurt somebody. And all it would take to get it is some money and a phony ad agency.
      • You're doing what so many do. Freedom of speech doesn't necessary equal the First Amendment.

        This isn't a First Amendment issue. It IS a freedom of speech issue.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        AC not if the social media is offering gov interaction at a city, state, nation level.
        The question of been a utility to allow the publication of users comments is also raised.
        The social media site is not the publisher of its own approved content. The content belongs to the users.
        Over many decades legal questions in parts of the USA got looked at over free speech on private property eg shopping malls.
        ie areas regularly held open to the public.
        AC some US states really allow for the full right of fre
    • I support freedom of speech, even for scum like this.

      What happened to "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" ? Sad that you label everyone interested in WW2 history as "scum".

      • Re:Sorry (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Shaitan ( 22585 ) on Thursday February 21, 2019 @03:02PM (#58159614)

        Racism is ignorant and irrational, race isn't even an objectively defined thing. Neo-nazi's operate on a blend of false science and outdated and debunked science and promote an idea of exclusion and violence. The people who fall it aren't automatically scum true, people are duped into stupid and irrational ideas all the time even good and intelligent people. There are no shortage of lies and propaganda being spread about neo-nazi's including the idea that they regularly engage in all sorts of hate motivated violence but their platform does still support those ideas and it doesn't just support a pro-white narrative, it supports an anti-everyone else narrative.

        I happen to have white skin and if I oppose a measure that unfairly discriminates against me I get associated with all the historical baggage and evils perpetuated by the ideas of groups like Nazi's and the KKK. I should be able to oppose measures that would give a random non-white skin color child an advantage over my own or be proud of my heritage publicly in a fair and logical forum but I can't because these groups are the big ugly strawmen I get lumped in with.

        Nobody does more to damage to "white people" than neo-nazi's, Klan, and confederate supporters because every time we try to defend ourselves against another racist policy targeting us we get compared to them. Every time we start a movement, those groups will support it and make it look shameful and dirty.

        • (Part of) The complex truth is that, even though you personally may be marginalised, and personally be "unfairly disadvantaged", you belong to a Group that as a whole gets a disproportionately large chunk of every pie. You may not have money, but whites have most of the money. You may not have education opportunities, but whites have the most education, the most facilities for finance, the most positive bias from mostly white faculty, the most job prospects, and the highest salary. If you are missing out
          • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

            "you belong to a Group that as a whole gets a disproportionately large chunk of every pie"

            Which objectively defined group is that? Explain to me how lumping people you categorize into it together instead of treating them as individuals isn't racism?

      • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

        "Sad that you label everyone interested in WW2 history as "scum"."

        No, that was simply ambiguity in my writing. It is sad that you feel the need to be so hostile and inflammatory in pointing it out.

    • I support freedom of speech, i.e. freedom from government interference in my speech. I do not support the right to infringe on other's speech by compelling them to print someone else's speech on their privately-held platform. But we're not even talking about that here; we're talking about whether Facebook should be allowed to allow advertisers to target people with an interest in certain topics. That's a freedom of speech issue regarding what Facebook itself is allowed to say to advertisers. As such, I supp

      • by lgw ( 121541 )

        I do not support the right to infringe on other's speech by compelling them to print someone else's speech on their privately-held platform.

        Do you support the right of a privately-held restaurant to turn away black customers? For a bakery to turn away gays? You run a business open to the public, you might be compelled to serve all the public.

        Separately, Publicly-traded corporations have no right to free speech. There's no trade-off to discuss. The rights of one side are being infringed, the other side has no such rights, case closed.

        • Do you support the right of a privately-held restaurant to turn away black customers?

          Questions like this frustrate me because they're as (ir)relevant to the situation at hand as me asking when you stopped beating your wife.

          Facebook isn't turning Nazis away from their platform: they're choosing not to make "advertise to Nazis" a menu item that advertisers can select. If we're putting it in restaurant terms, this has nothing to do with whether a restaurant is willing to serve black customers; it's instead about whether the restaurant can remove foie gras from its menu. That's it. No one is ki

          • by lgw ( 121541 )

            Publicly traded corporations have no rights. The whole concept is nonsense. They are allowed to do whatever we decide to allow them to do, but they start at 0. So, why is it in society's best interest to allow them to censor speech they disagree with? More clearly, why is it in society's best interest to allow an effective monopoly to censor speech it disagrees with, and thereby control political discussion? Lack of free discussion is the anathema of democracy.

            • Once again, you're asking questions that are wholly unrelated to the situation at hand. Facebook chose to stop selling a product they previously offered. That's...

              A) Their choice to make, not yours
              B) Not censorship

              So, why is it in society's best interest to allow them to censor speech they disagree with?

              When did you stop beating your wife?

              Again, no censorship is happening in the situation at hand. If you have different information, clue me in, but so far as I can tell your brain short circuited when it saw "censorship" mentioned in the comments, since you continue to talk about a hypothetical pr

              • by lgw ( 121541 )

                Their choice to make, not yours

                Why do you believe that should be the case? You keep advocating for it, but you refuse to make an argument, or even answer any related questions.

                Not censorship

                You seem unclear on the concept.. When anyone chooses not to distribute content for any content-based reason, that's censorship.

                • Why do you believe that should be the case? You keep advocating for it, but you refuse to make an argument, or even answer any related questions.

                  I think it as self-evident as the notion that you can’t walk into a French restaurant and demand sushi at a price you set. If you seriously believe that businesses don’t get to choose their own business offerings, what’s stopping you from walking into a bank and demanding that they give you all their money as a new form of “it all belongs to me” account that you just created for them? After all, it’s not their call to make, right?

                  You seem unclear on the concept.. When anyone chooses not to distribute content for any content-based reason, that's censorship.

                  And you have yet to point to a single thin

                  • by lgw ( 121541 )

                    If you seriously believe that businesses donâ(TM)t get to choose their own business offerings

                    We as a society have already decided it's not that simple. A baker can't refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding, even if that product offering goes against the core values of the owners. eHarmony was forced by law to create an entire new product offering and web site for gay dating. Heck, a game company was once ordered by a judge to create an entire new game for someone else in a trademark/copyright dispute.

                    Do you agree it's not that simple, or are you an absolutist, denying any complexity?

                    To me, one d

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Nothing to do with freedom of speech.

      They are helping Nazis to target such people with their propaganda via their advertising platform. They are helping Nazis radicalize people.

      It's one thing to support free speech on your platform and allow that kind of material, it's another to actively assist Nazis in their recruitment drive.

      • by lgw ( 121541 )

        Nothing to do with freedom of speech.

        They are helping Nazis to target such people with their propaganda via their advertising platform. They are helping Nazis radicalize people.

        It's one thing to support free speech on your platform and allow that kind of material, it's another to actively assist Nazis in their recruitment drive.

        Nothing to do with freedom of speech.

        They are helping Muslims to target such people with their propaganda via their advertising platform. They are helping Muslims radicalize people.

        It's one thing to support free speech on your platform and allow that kind of material, it's another to actively assist Muslims in their recruitment drive.

        Nothing to do with freedom of speech.

        They are helping Socialists to target such people with their propaganda via their advertising platform. They are helping Socialists radical

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The difference being that Islam and socialism are not inherently violent or opposed to anyone's existence.

    • Searching for these individuals or the political parties they were a part of is *not* necessarily an indication of support. How can one understand the atrocities that were committed, the actual history of their rise to power, unless one searches for information? How can one learn the nature of fascist and authoritarian governments without searching for information on recent governments of that nature?

      Learning history, learning the lessons of history, requires reading about terrible things and terrible pe
    • Not all people that research Hitler/Nazi's believe in superior race. Ever heard of learn from history and the mistakes made?
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Does this include, say, calls to murder specific people and the like? Usually you place a limit on calls to criminal activity and for very good reasons.

  • double-standard (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BringsApples ( 3418089 ) on Thursday February 21, 2019 @02:35PM (#58159446)

    a clear hateful idea or narrative can be amplified to reach more people, is exactly what they said they don't want to do

    Who determines what a "clear hateful idea" is? Oh, I see what they did there.

    • a clear hateful idea or narrative can be amplified to reach more people, is exactly what they said they don't want to do

      Who determines what a "clear hateful idea" is? Oh, I see what they did there.

      Did they say it was a "clear hateful idea" ? I do not think so. It well could simply have been a "narrative" as stated one word after, no?

      • I should have asked, "Who determines what a "clear hateful idea or narrative" is? Thank you for correcting me.

        But the point is still the same: Facebook builds a narrative (no matter what sort of ideas stated by the user) on it's user(s), then sells that narrative to anyone that will pay.
    • A hatred of "clear hateful ideas or narratives" itself constitute a clear hateful idea. [wikipedia.org]
    • when they did that whole "Holocaust" thing.

      Seriously. If you're invoking Nazis in anything except historic context, either directly or indirectly, then you're spreading a message of violence. Nazism is like Ebola, really nasty shit that needs to be handled with care.
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Spain on any news about Catalonia.
      China about Taiwan been the real China.
      China over any aspect of a cartoon bear. China over its Communist past.
      Germany about any aspect of German news, culture, politics, art and history.
      The UK on police actions over words used.
      France over protesters.
      Many nations with blasphemy laws.

      US freedom of speech and freedom after speech is looking great.
  • by Major_Disorder ( 5019363 ) on Thursday February 21, 2019 @02:43PM (#58159492)
    If you send them enough "Herbal viagra" and "discount pharmacy" ads, the problem will likely self correct.
  • HA! (Score:5, Funny)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Thursday February 21, 2019 @02:50PM (#58159546)

    I'm gonna be the first to Godwin this threa... oh crap.

  • Nazis suck (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Vinegar Joe ( 998110 )

    while Communists rock. Thanks for clearing that up.

  • by laxr5rs ( 2658895 ) on Thursday February 21, 2019 @03:16PM (#58159724)
    Sometimes articles make it seem like Facebook or someone else went *out of their way* to advertise Nazi stuff to people. That's most probably not the case. They probably made some algorithm do something like. "if X is interested in Y, then send some Z their way." Sometimes that might mean Nazi stuff. Then this happens and people say, "see! FACEBOOK IS SUPPORTING NAZIS." Sorry folks, but sometimes software robotic automatons are not sensitive to everyone's predilections. The simple software robots we are using at this point do not make moral judgements (unless told to) and every possible situation that might crop up that is negative like this one, cannot, I repeat, cannot be accounted for. There's going to be some roadkill if you drive a bunch of cars down the road, and there's going to be some poorly chosen details if you let the amoral algorithmic robots choose for you. That's the breaks. We should be educating the masses that this will happen, but that we will adjust as we can to avoid these kinds of things in the future.
  • by jm007 ( 746228 ) on Thursday February 21, 2019 @03:23PM (#58159776)
    one time I read about leprosy.... and it's ridiculous to then assume I'm now pro-leprosy; silly example, but exactly the same thing happens on a hot-button topic like this

    ingesting information on any topic does not necessarily mean advocating or endorsing it; if one is 'curious' or 'interested' in a topic -- including valid historical figures and events, it is disingenuous to then be portrayed as being 'for' it

    keep in mind FB is not a government entity but a profit-oriented business; any and all of its power was handed to it voluntarily by those who feel okay with trading their privacy for whatever FB offers in return; also keep in mind that tolerance of differing viewpoints is a keystone of democracy... removing alternative viewpoints is tyranny and will have a much deeper negative impact than a generally unpopular topic running its natural course

    expecting government to handle social problems only leads to more government; more of that can certainly be worse than letting social issues play out in society; government-mandated solutions should be scarce since they come with their own set of intractable problems some of which are worse than what they are 'solving'

    I don't see anyone in the OP advocating gov't intervention, so perhaps I ramble a bit here; on the other hand, if this is an attempt to educate the general public about FB's practices so the public can make better informed decisions, then hell yes, let's hear it

    it comes down to personal responsibility for yourself and children; make a stand and make it work... too many whiners think "someone should do something" but never themselves; "I want my FB but somebody needs to make it safe for me" is about as disgustingly weak-minded as it gets; it's unreasonable to expect gov't to solve all of life's problems and honestly, I wouldn't want it to

    my life IS about my choices; if somebody else is making choices for me, then it's not really my life
  • Simon Wiesenthal is glad he's dead and doesn't have to suffer those Nazi-Ads.

  • ...the Western Allies permitted their citizens and military personnel to listen to Lord Haw-haw, Axis Sally, Tokyo Rose and more.
    Leadership knew daylight is a fine disinfectant. They were tough, smart, and not afraid of speech.

    They won.

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