Microsoft Asks Users To Call Windows 10 Devs About ALT+TAB Feature (bleepingcomputer.com) 235
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bleeping Computer: Microsoft has started to display notifications in the Windows 10 Action Center asking users to have a phone call with Microsoft developers and provide direct feedback about the ALT+TAB feature in Windows. While using a Windows 10 Insider build today, I was shown a Feedback Hub notification stating that "Microsoft wants to hear your opinions! To set up a phone call with Windows engineers, go to: http://www.aka.ms/alttab." This link then redirects to a web page at https://ux.microsoft.com/?AltTab. It is not known if this is only being shown to Windows Insiders users at this time.
When users visit this link they will be shown a Microsoft User Research page stating that a Windows 10 product team is looking to "understand our customer needs" and would like to have an anonymous 5-10 minute phone call with the user. In this particular case, the phone call will be with Microsoft engineers to discuss how users use the ALT+TAB feature to switch between apps. Microsoft states they are performing these calls in order to get a better understanding of how a feature is being used while they are in development. According to the web site, Windows engineers will be available on 3/11/2019 between 11:15 AM and 1:00 PM PST and on 3/12/2019 between 9:30 AM and 11:30 AM PST to schedule a call. The page goes on to say that users can expect a 5-10 minute call, but that it could last longer if there is more to discuss. They also state that the calls are not being recorded, are anonymous, and the content of the call will not be stored.
When users visit this link they will be shown a Microsoft User Research page stating that a Windows 10 product team is looking to "understand our customer needs" and would like to have an anonymous 5-10 minute phone call with the user. In this particular case, the phone call will be with Microsoft engineers to discuss how users use the ALT+TAB feature to switch between apps. Microsoft states they are performing these calls in order to get a better understanding of how a feature is being used while they are in development. According to the web site, Windows engineers will be available on 3/11/2019 between 11:15 AM and 1:00 PM PST and on 3/12/2019 between 9:30 AM and 11:30 AM PST to schedule a call. The page goes on to say that users can expect a 5-10 minute call, but that it could last longer if there is more to discuss. They also state that the calls are not being recorded, are anonymous, and the content of the call will not be stored.
So no recordings? (Score:2)
Re:So no recordings? (Score:4, Funny)
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ARGH! I so wish there was a way to punch someone over the telephone, since these guys deserve it and they keep scamming my mother.
Or.. phone spiders... https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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And when they do get the call they wonder why it's always someone cursing.
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And this is why the user interface of Windows 7 is the last decent UI, anything after that is just wildly confusing.
Why make the UI confusing and hard to understand? Not that the Win 7 UI don't have anything bad - it does, but it's at least consistent, which is important for many users. I don't want to waste time trying to figure out where a certain functionality is hidden - then I can as well use the command line interface instead.
As for the Alt+Tab - that's not something I use very often, but I understand
More M$ chicanery... (Score:5, Funny)
Users don't need more than 640k... oh, yes they do. Whoops!
Users don't need the Start Button... oh, yes they do. Whoops!
and now
Users don't need ALT-TAB... get your FSCKING hands off of my interface Microsoft!!!
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Re:More M$ chicanery... (Score:4, Informative)
They use it to switch active application. That's it's god damn job, and has been since Windows 3.1 (and probably earlier). It performs that same function in Linux. Why would we even think about changing that? Because we're Microsoft. (I just figured I'd go ahead and answer that question for anyone who was confused.)
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I'm like you. It's like "What's there to talk about? I use it to switch between usually a maximum of 3 windows. Sometimes I use it to switch to window 6 out of 21 windows, because I'm too lazy to go to the mouse and click on the application."
What are they gonna do? Here's an idea. Assign a new key where I get to type my window number on the numeric pad. Example. I want to jump to the 6th window, press Alt-tilde (or back tick, since tilde is the uppercase) and type 6 on the numeric pad, release alt-ti
Re:More M$ chicanery... (Score:5, Informative)
I used to use hot key mappings to switch to specific windows on Win7 - until they broke it in Windows 10.
I set up hotkeys to launch PuTty sessions to multiple unix hosts - or multiple accounts on the same host. And on Windows 95 through Windows 7, hitting the same hotkey would bring the corresponding session to the foreground. On Windows 10, the hotkey now launches a second copy of the corresponding session - rendering the hotkey feature useless.
Fix that, please - and you can take away Alt-Tab if you want...
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Useful when you have a full screen application, like a game where you can't just click on another window.
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win-key+# does that, where # is the order on the task bar (including pinned programs)
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Nice! I did not know that. Thanks!
Re:More M$ chicanery... (Score:4, Informative)
If they fuck with alt-tab at all, I'm not sure I could use that operating system. That's like 20+ years of muscle memory to overcome, and I don't see that happening as long as I'm using a standard keyboard.
It's baffling enough that they haven't every adopted Alt-` to cycle through windows of an application. I use that on linux all of the time.
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as long as I'm using a standard keyboard.
Introducing the new and improved Microsoft Keyboard, with the Alt and TAB keys removed!
In fact ...
https://assets.amuniversal.com... [amuniversal.com]
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And I'm not swiping to switch apps! I'd rather swipe my finger on the green stuff growing in my fridge before I swipe on something from Microsoft.
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We use it to switch apps by keyboard. I guess the more useful method, is a way to switch apps on a stupid full screen app with no way to quit or minimize it.
But what I really want to see is a Windows version of xkill.
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To be fair, the article doesn't say they're getting rid of it, just that they want an understanding of how it's used.
Well, something is bullshit, and it's either this statement or their justification for all the telemetry and related spyware they install.
Which do you think it is?
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Not necessarily.
End users give developers concepts, often in a way they cannot be implemented well. Apple will listed to their needs, but won't rush to give it to them, until they think they got it right, and easy to use.
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Alt+Tab - most common thing I use (Score:5, Informative)
I use that combo at least 100 times a day. And Ctrl-Tab for web browser tab switching.
Another favorite: Window+arrow keys is awesome for resizing and moving windows (the 50% of screen shift is nice to put two programs on one screen).
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thanks for the window+arrow trick, i didn't know it!!
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Don't worry, it'll be gone in the next update, as soon as they figure out how to break the Alt-Tab thing.
They are just waiting for it to become a ubiquitous thing everyone takes for granted and then they will kill it without a word.
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Right-click on the App - goto properties
In the properties window, look for the "Shortcut Key" field
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/open-programs-with-keyboard-shortcuts-in-windows-10/ [cnet.com]
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I use that combo at least 100 times a day. And Ctrl-Tab for web browser tab switching.
I've found myself using Windows-Tab more often now since it uses Task Manager. Often times much quicker for me than Alt-Tab.
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I don't like that format (I like the single screen look, I would prefer the Windows 7 text descriptions rather than the screenshots, but I usually know exactly how many "windows away" I am for 5-6 apps when Alt+Tab-ing)
Another useful one (for killing off Chrome when it decides to go haywire):
Ctrl+Shift+Esc = Open Task Manager...
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Timeline is ok it allows you to open stuff you closed previously in addition to switching between what's open. I'm not sure about the sync so you can resume your timeline on another device.
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What's wrong with alt tab? (Score:5, Insightful)
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It might work fine, but it's also inefficient when you have lots of windows open...
Many non windows systems also implement alt+tab because users are familiar with it, while also offering other solutions (eg multiple workspaces being my personal favorite)...
Just because something works doesn't mean it couldn't be done better another way... And just because a new way is now being offered, doesn't mean the old functionality is going to be removed.
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Even Windows 7 can have multiple desktops, with a power toy. And it's got a visual task switcher with another one... win+tab.
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My guess is they will want to replace it with timeline win+tab but aren't sure if it will piss everyone off.
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Alt harkens back to the days before Microsoft. By switching to the Windows key, they can leave an enduring legacy of who innovated the shit out of modern UIs.
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I know... I'm suddenly nervous about a redesign. It'll be like FB's create post button. You can't just type and publish anymore. Nope, instead it pops up another dialog "you want that on your timeline or news feed?"
Alt-Tab of the future "do you want to see a list of icons or pictures, or how about a history of tabs" (which is Windows-Tab btw).
Although - were'd the Mac like carousel tab view go? (or was that Win7 only?!). It was cool - but that shows you how much I used it. :-P
Crude (Score:3, Insightful)
As primarily a linux/mac user, i find the alt+tab (and its equivalents) quite crude and ineffective when you're running a large number of applications (having to cycle through a large number of applications one by one)...
I generally have multiple virtual workspaces which are each setup for a specific purpose (usually multiple apps laid out in each) and then switch directly to the numbered workspace that i require.
When i've seen people heavily using alt+tab it's usually on systems where a very small number of applications are in use (maybe 3-4), they are running maximized and the user is switching between them. From my desk right now i can see another user doing this with a browser, a mail client and a spreadsheet.
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You can hold Alt and then click on the window you want
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As primarily a linux/mac user, i find the alt+tab (and its equivalents) quite crude and ineffective when you're running a large number of applications (having to cycle through a large number of applications one by one)... I generally have multiple virtual workspaces which are each setup for a specific purpose (usually multiple apps laid out in each) and then switch directly to the numbered workspace that i require.
When i've seen people heavily using alt+tab it's usually on systems where a very small number of applications are in use (maybe 3-4), they are running maximized and the user is switching between them. From my desk right now i can see another user doing this with a browser, a mail client and a spreadsheet.
I have about 35 windows open right now. Most of them maximized (why not? After all, I have ALT+TAB ...). Use ALT+TAB incessantly.
It's not crude when you are experienced at it. It's second nature.
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Alt-Tab works very fine for alternating between a small number of windows, regardless of the total number, because they are hold in a LIFO stack. What I have seen from Linux users is that they tend to minimize their windows to get them away from blocking the screen, this would indeed ruin Alt-Tab as minimizing puts the window in the bottom of the Alt-Tab stack.
And of course all my windows are maximized, I do not like the tangled mess created by partially overlapping windows.
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The first thing ALT-Tab does is show a list of thumbnails with all the open windows.
You can click on the window you want with the mouse, no LIFO required.
If you don't click on one, then the LIFO is used.
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The first thing ALT-Tab does is show a list of thumbnails with all the open windows.
You can click on the window you want with the mouse, no LIFO required.
If you don't click on one, then the LIFO is used.
You're missing the whole point: people, including me, use ALT_TAB (and a dozen other key combos) because it is incredibly disruptive to use the mouse at all . It's even worse when you have to put one hand on the mouse and another on the KB (Oh, look, my KB doesn't have a WIN key on the right side, and I use a lefty mouse), which is why I programmed a mouse button to do CTRL-click, for example.
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When i've seen people heavily using alt+tab it's usually on systems where a very small number of applications are in use (maybe 3-4), they are running maximized and the user is switching between them.
Sounds like exactly the right way to use a system when you want to take full advantage of screen space. Even with the two 1600x1200 monitors on my desk, that is still definitely the case for me. And yes, I use virtual desktops as well. On laptops with typically paltry screens, why WOULDN'T you want to run each application fully maximized?
If you have a huge number of windows open at the same time and aren't organizing them in such a way that Alt-Tab works to quickly switch between them, then I argue you ar
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Alt+tab, then while holding tab use the arrow keys (including up and down).
Better, but still quite crude compared to alt+number to go direct to a virtual screen that's already laid out for a specific purpose.
The part I hate is when my mouse grabs focus while I'm alt tabbing.
I hate when applications steal focus, if an application wants to ask me something it should wait until i decide to look at that application, not draw focus away from whatever i'm doing and shove a requester in my face.
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Better, but still quite crude compared to alt+number to go direct to a virtual screen that's already laid out for a specific purpose.
I like the Windows 10 feature of Win-Number. Each application that is pinned on your taskbar has a number (starting at 1 for the left-most icon). If your first pinned app is Chrome, then pressing Win-1 will do an Alt-Tab of just the Chrome windows. Once you get used to your chosen application order, it is much faster than looking through all the applications at once on Alt-Tab or Win-Tab.
For the life of me, I can't figure out a quick way of switching between virtual screens on Windows 10. The only way I kno
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Leave it the fuck alone (Score:5, Insightful)
Leave it the fuck alone
WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
My feedback on it? My feedback would be instantaneously suspicious and the phone call would consist of me repeating over and over "for gawd's sake leave it alone and don't faff".
Stop changing things (Score:2)
I mean, change is alright as long as it is backward compatible, but completely rearranging functions I use every day gets annoying. Excel changed their keyboard shortcuts at one point. I used to be able to do pretty much everything in Excel without touching my mouse, then something changed and I had to use the ribbon for way too much, rather than fast keyboard combos.
oh great (Score:3)
"Oops, looks like we missed something, there's a highly useful feature there we haven't removed or screwed with yet!"
Stop Reinventing Everything (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is it modern software companies are obsessed with 'improving' features that already work perfectly well? It's not just Microsoft, but Mozilla, Google and most others. They're 'improving' the life out of their software. Their 'improvements' are generally significantly inferior to the original implementation, and commercial software has been moving backwards for the last 15 years. It used to be that you could just install Windows 2000 and use it, but with Windows 10 you have to apply about 100 registry hacks, and even then it's garbage. Firefox is trash compared to version 3.0 and the UI simply doesn't work. As for Google, they couldn't produce a decent UI to save their lives.
The problem seems to be the rise of the UX designer, and while interfaces were previously created by developers, they're now made by people who believe themselves to be highly creative and innovative, and believe they can do a better job then the developers that preceded them. However, their confidence is greatly misplaced, and these UX designers have destroyed modern commercial software, rendering it completely worthless.
All of the software I use now is FOSS, not so much because I planned it that way, but because each time a company destroyed the UI of their product, I've moved to a free alternative with a functioning UI. Now I'm on all FOSS because UX designers have so thoroughly destroyed commercial software. When I see articles like this it makes me glad I bailed out.
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It wasn't always better. Firefox's very existence is proof of that.
All that fucking telemetry... (Score:5, Insightful)
...and you have no idea how your customers use a key feature in Windows 10?
Way to fail there, Microsoft.
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Perhaps Windows having all that fucking telemetry is just paranoid fantasies?
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well -- People may press the button many times a day. But they doesn't tell them WHY you press the button.
Telemetry tells you that an even occurred. Talking to customers allows you to find out WHY and WHAT they are trying to achieve.
For example, I tap on my phone all day and never achieve what I WANTED to do. Spell check for example. That is NOT what I was trying to type.
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well -- People may press the button many times a day. But they doesn't tell them WHY you press the button.
Uh, care to tell me exactly WHY you are pressing ALT+TAB?
It's function is rather singular and it requires a combination of keystrokes, so it's hardly used by accident, or for 17 different reasons. Not sure how many ways Microsoft can ask that question, but it would likely resemble something like this:
(Microsoft) Can you briefly explain why you use ALT+TAB?
(User) Yeah, to switch between running applications.
(Microsoft) Yes, we understand that's the function of ALT+TAB, but why do you use it?
(User) Uhhh
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Alt-tab usage cannot be monetized, so it's not part of telemetry.
Every keystroke is optionally part of telemetry, and the EULA permits them to grab them.
What's the problem? (Score:3)
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All I see is a corporation continuing the practice of stealing from those that supply it's money, while paying others that cannot see what is in front of themselves. Wanna work for MS, and help put their products together? Get a salaried job with them. Stop paying them for product and working for free, answering their unneeded questions.
If their employee selection system is not working right, they need to work on HR, not continue begging their customers for clues.
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If only... (Score:2)
.
If only...
A Better Approach? (Score:2)
On KDE and MacOS, alt+tab goes from application to application, while alt+~ goes between windows of the same application. This is super helpful when you have a bunch of terminals open and want to switch between them or multiple web browser windows and want to switch.
I wish this feature were available on Windows.
Data point (Score:2)
I'm on Win10 1809, not insider preview, and I got the notification.
(I work for Microsoft, but this machine isn't on-prem domain joined or using an MSIT image. It is connected to AAD.)
Re:I use ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Given their consistently bizarre positions on things like ribbons, the start menu, etc. there's no telling what particular brand of LSD they've been eating lately wherein they believe that alt-tab isn't the most important key combination in windows (arguably up there with ctrl-alt-del, which used to reliably lock the screen, now it does...something else not helpful).
There are a few sacred key combinations that just work, and they shouldn't ever fucking touch:
ctrl-alt-del -> (with an option for task manager before screen blank & login)
alt-tab -> select background applications in order of what was last recently used, continuously pressing alt allows you to continue to go through applications until you find the right one
ctrl-c - Copy highlighted text
ctrl-v - Paste text from clipboard
ctrl-z - Undo (pressed 10 times in a row, uninstalls the OS and reverts back to Windows 2000, the last time they had the OS UI more or less correct)'
alt-f4 - Kill this shit immediately
There are others, but there are wear marks on my keyboard here.
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Less important, but alt-enter "used to" be the command for games to full screen.
Now with UWP, it's Winkey+shift+enter. ....Why?
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Since the implementation of GUIs beginning with Windows, the F3 function key has had no effect, or does something other than Exiting.
Re:I use ... (Score:4, Informative)
In the era of DOS applications, F3 was the nearly universal key for exiting the program, and returning to the DOS prompt.
It was actually a holdover from the mainframe/3270 days, when F3 (PF3 in IBM parlance) was universally used to exit a running program.
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One of my terminal based apps uses F12 to exit the app.
Just when you think the world plays by the same rules all the time...
Re:I use ... (Score:5, Informative)
Oh man, now I remember the keyboards at school had this cardboard cutout that fit over the function keys with an explanation of what ctrl/alt/shift/combo thereof along with each function key did in WordPerfect. I think ... Shift-F7 was Save, wasn't it?
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The function keys seem be used less and less now a-days. To a point where some keyboards (espectially laptop) don't even have the function keys as the default action, but use it for volume, microphone, screen brightness, wi-fi.... and you need a function key to switch to the function Fx keys. (yes this can be changed in bios)
However having used old VT and IBM 3270 terminal programs, I actually like the ability for have over 20 function keys at hand, it was like having a ribbon on your computer. It was comm
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F1 was not the Help key in WordPerfect
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F3 is usually search/find now
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That's what I use when I'm chasing rabbits in regedit.
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here's no telling what particular brand of LSD they've been eating lately wherein they believe that alt-tab isn't the most important key combination in windows
You say that as if it hasn't been replaced by an alternative that provides the original function + a lot more. Try hitting windows+tab at some point. You can still switch applications, + actually manage your virtual desktops.
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Windows-tab does not, by itself, switch between applications. You must also use the arrow keys to select a window and then hit enter. That's a lot less quick to switch back and forth between two windows than alt-tab.
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Windows-tab does not, by itself, switch between applications. You must also use the arrow keys to select a window and then hit enter. That's a lot less quick to switch back and forth between two windows than alt-tab.
Or you can click the window you want.
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Or you can click the window you want.
The key is to do it quickly. Alt+Tab allows you to switch between 2 programs quickly (and instantly) with one hand.
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Maybe on later Windows. My 8.1 machine allows me to go through the list by repeatedly hitting the tab key after the initial Alt+tab.
This works fine in my opinion, which means that Microsoft is going to innovate this out of the next product.
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Other shortcuts I use several times daily:
Windows + L : Lock screen
Windows + E : File explorer
Windows + D : Show desktop (minimize everything)
Windows + Left/Right: Move window to the left/right side of the screen
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Ctrl + Windows + Left/Right Switch desktops
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I keep the windows key disabled. In games it only does bad things, and I pretty much only use Windows for games. I have linux and os x when I need to get work done.
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What's stupid is that they come with new and arguably more powerful shortcut systems, but who the fuck knows what they are without obvious documentation/hints?
Worse is when they take away the originals for work-alikes (even better ones) but still don't make the new ones known.
They could even make an appy app that serves both as documentation and a way to change/add these keyboard commands back to what they used to be.
None of this satisfies UI designers, though. Most UI alterations never achieve whatever ut
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Ctrl+shift+esc, opens the task manager without having to use ctrl+alt+del or launching it explicitly from the run menu or command prompt. No idea why it doesn't seem to be documented.
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This is acceptable, just in case some multiplayer troll says that this combination is a menu that activates cheats, options, or some other valid reason. (Perhaps the user forgot to save the game, etc.)
On the other hand, this is not.
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Well, it's something you fall for once, like the recommendation to delete C:\Windows\System32 too...
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alt-f4 - Kill this shit immediately
Personal rant: I hate that many modern games don't do this properly anymore. If I press alt-f4 I don't want you to ask me whether I am sure I'd like to quit and then take 15s to actually quit, I'd like you to F*** OFF RIGHT NOW!
Is this a thing PC games can do? I mainly play elite and people are always moaning about combat logging which is basically doing that to get yourself out of a fight/death and the devs are always saying nothing can be done about it but if they could intercept that command and make the user piss around with an overlay while they get blown the fuck up they short of flat out pulling the plug that would basically be problem solved on that front.
Is ctrl+esc still a thing?
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windows key disabled... does more harm than good.
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I find it handy. I even remap it on linux. Win-c opens the calculator, Win-t opens a text editor, etc.
The more harm than good label belongs squarely on the asshole decision to make ctrl-q quit web browsers, and ctrl-w close a window. For years I fought to disable fucking ctrl-q in all my browsers, but lately it's gotten so hard to do that I've given up. Tab restore helps mitigate this evil, but it doesn't save half-written posts in other windows.
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You way seems rather complex already. Are you using a standard keyboard.
I just use my left thumb on the ALT and my Left Pinky (or Ring Finger) to hit the tab. Your method you right hand is really leaving the home row on your keyboard.
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Answer: "To give them the results they wanted"
Let's hope they get a "Brexit" vote.
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Here's someone asking the right type of questions.
Actually, I'm only left asking the obvious question; How the hell did MS telemetry not gather this detail.
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I like the preview effect. If you have, for instance, two command prompts, you can see which is which by looking at it.
But it looks like you have a different opinion. And I suspect that's exactly why they are doing that poll. There is no one true way of doing ALT+TAB.
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If you're going to ask users about features, do it on the phone and keep it private.
Some people: are blind or poorly sighted, are dyslexic, poor spellers or otherwise typing-impaired, or do not read English, are computer-shy or technophobic, sleep, work or are otherwise unavailable during your chosen hours; do not want a persistent record of their feedback and/or the following discussion.
Taking feedback over the web discriminates against all of the above.
See how easy it is to simply dismiss anything out of