First Japan-Built Airliner In 50 Years Takes On Boeing and Airbus (bloomberg.com) 75
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: More cities in Asia and Europe are seeking to link up with each other and the global air travel network. The Mitsubishi Regional Jet, the first airliner built in Japan since the 1960s, began certification flights last month in Moses Lake, Washington, to satisfy that demand. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.'s new airliner is testing the skies just as rivals are moving to sell off their manufacturing operations for jets with up to 160 seats. Boeing is set to buy 80 percent of the Embraer SA's commercial operations in a joint venture, while Bombardier last year sold control of its C Series airliner project to Airbus SE and is exploring "strategic options" for its regional-jet operations. At stake, particularly in the market for jets with fewer seats, is $135 billion in sales in the two decades through 2037, according to industry group Japan Aircraft Development Corp.
With few seats and smaller fuselages, regional jets are a different class of aircraft from larger narrow-body planes such as Boeing's 737 or Airbus's A320. The MRJ has a range of about 2,000 miles, while a smaller variant can haul up to 76 people for about the same distance. A longtime supplier of aircraft components to Boeing, Mitsubishi Heavy is developing the MRJ to emerge from its customer's shadow. After spending at least $2 billion over more than a decade, the manufacturer is looking to get its jet certified and start deliveries to launch partner ANA Holdings. Mitsubishi expects to have the plane ready for customers next year, a timetable that will test the company, said Mitsubishi Aircraft President Hisakazu Mizutani.
With few seats and smaller fuselages, regional jets are a different class of aircraft from larger narrow-body planes such as Boeing's 737 or Airbus's A320. The MRJ has a range of about 2,000 miles, while a smaller variant can haul up to 76 people for about the same distance. A longtime supplier of aircraft components to Boeing, Mitsubishi Heavy is developing the MRJ to emerge from its customer's shadow. After spending at least $2 billion over more than a decade, the manufacturer is looking to get its jet certified and start deliveries to launch partner ANA Holdings. Mitsubishi expects to have the plane ready for customers next year, a timetable that will test the company, said Mitsubishi Aircraft President Hisakazu Mizutani.
Good to see some Japanese engineering in the skies (Score:1)
Hopefully some competition will help Boeing and Airbus to raise their games, too.
Re: Good to see some Japanese engineering in the s (Score:2)
Don't buckle up yet, lawyer up first! (Score:2)
Airbus, which took over Bombardier's CS series of aircraft (hence renamed the A220 series), may have some ongoing legal things to say about the new Mitsubishi aircraft:
https://www.reuters.com/articl... [reuters.com]
Bombardier has claimed that former employees either took trade secrets with them to work at Mitsubishi or otherwise passed on such information to help Mitsubishi’s oft-delayed regional jet project.
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Add to that the fact that Mitsubishi received significant subsidies from the Japanese government to design and build the Boeing 787s wings, which Airbus are considering taking to the WTO over and above the litigation which has already gone on between the EU and the US over Airbus and Boeing...
Works really well but... (Score:5, Funny)
Seems like a nice ride, but I'm not quite sure how passengers make it through the transformation to giant robot after it lands.
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HondaJet is much smaller, only six searts. The MRJ can carry up to 90.
Asia versus Europe (Score:2, Interesting)
One of the things the business community has been noticing is that, while air travel is up in Asia, it's actually decreasing per capita in parts of the EU. People are realizing their main contribution to climate change is flying - they live in urban centers, take bikes and trains, and now they're cutting back on regional flying, opting for even heavier use of trains. This is most marked in Sweden and Denmark, currently, but there are signs it's spreading to the rest of the EU, partially as a way of virtue
Flying and climate change (Score:1)
I'm just going to note that different modes of travel have different CO2 costs, obviously, but that plane travel is a bit different than cars and trains in that it effectively has a high up front trip cost, but once you separate that out, the per mile/km cost is quite cheap.
So over a certain distance, plane is actually the lowest CO2 method of travel.
Flying to see my parents is the best way, even discounting the extra time any other method would need.
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(source: Wall Street Journal)
Whatever, dude.
Airplane vs CO2 (Score:3)
depends what you compare your plane to.
- vs cars: (e.g. in the US)
yes, indeed, because having people grouped together in a signle fossik burning machine is much efficient than spreading them, each with their own small fossil burning machine.
The end result, is that planes are among the lowest emission per travelled per passenger.
( ^- notice the "among" part)
- vs train: (e.g.: EU)
depends on the power source mix on the considered electric grid.
European countries tend to use more renewable (hydro, solar, wind)
No, it *IS* train. (Score:2)
Busses produce much less CO2 than trains per passenger-distance.
Sorry, but no. It's hard to beat zero.
You probably missed the part where I mentioned:
In coal-powered backwater countries, maybe bus could beat train.
(And even there I'm not quite sure. You'd need to have the small distributed fossil burning engine in each bus somewhat managing to beat the efficiency of a large centralized power plant. We'd need to read studies running down the exact numbers)
In country (like some European like Switzerland) that
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You just agreed with me, you know?
people travel on enormous distances that would take a couple of days by train)
I fully admit that trains can win on medium distance. Planes win with extreme distances and/or significant water crossings.
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The other reason for the market being not affected or growing is: large parts of the populations of asian countries could not afford flying until recently. Partly they have more income now, partly flying got cheaper, so the amount of travelers is increasing steadily.
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People are realizing their main contribution to climate change is flying - they live in urban centers, take bikes and trains, and now they're cutting back on regional flying, opting for even heavier use of trains.
And I thought people fly less in EU because all the crap they receive at airports. Maybe I'm the only one who minds it :-/
Yes, great to see! (Score:3)
Glad to see Mitsubishi flying again.
Boeing needs to be taught a lesson or three... they had a perfectly good comfy regional in the guise of the 717 and killed it to protect the 737. Then there's that whole accounting-lead and piss-poor QC lately.. it's more than just teh 737 Max, USAF is rejecting KC-46's left and right because they're not up to snuff, full of debri, just not properly made. WTF boeing. You're behaving like 1970's GM and Chrysler fer fuck's sake.
More's the merrier, bring it. I wish Lockheed would make a new jetliner, it's been almost 50 years since the L1011.
Bravo, Mitsubishi. *claps* hope to fly in one someday.
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Lockheed Martin only makes absurdly overprice aircraft for the military. Commercial aircraft have to actually make money.
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Lockheed Martin only makes absurdly overprice aircraft for the military. Commercial aircraft have to actually make money.
Now, you mean. You see, Lockheed once upon a time was a rockstar of commercial aviation. Expensive, sure, but also dementedly good. Until their engine partner let them down. Oh and the turboprop Electra was a disaster, too.
L1011 was powered by Rolls-Royce RB211, the worlds first triple-spool hi-bypass turbofan. Rolls ran into huge cost and time over-runs. In fact RB211 killed Rolls Royce, forced 'em into receivership, made the car division go to BMW and the jet engine division to go to.. I forget who.
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The Rolls Royce Trent is a long family line of engines which are based on the RB211 - and that family includes a lot of successful engines as well as some which have had problems, so it's not the RB211 familial heritage which is the cause of the current issues, but more the approaches that's Rolls has taken in some engines.
GE have also had problems with their GENx series in a similar fashion, and that's an engine that dates back to the 1970s in terms of family.
There does seem to have been a spate of engine
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A discussion between a bunch of people who actually know WTF they are talking about.
Am I still on
Who wouldn't want to fly in an aircraft (Score:2)
from a major aeronautical innovator that's been producing aircraft since 1920 and manufactured the Zero?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Dunno about Zero being long-range.. it was meant to be a flea. Quick, agile, maneuverable.
A fully-loaded Zero is lighter than an empty Corsair. >.
I would so love to have a Zero to flit about in. 1250 pounds empty. Oh man. Like it's wired to your brain, is what Zero drivers say.
Of course, Spit drivers say the same thing, so.. *shrug*
But in my book, less mass always makes for a more entertaining machine, whether it flies, rides or drives.
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"One of our tanks is worth ten of theirs. But they always send eleven!"
Attributed to almost everyone who ever wore a Wermacht uniform.
More accurate sentiments might be "If we had two it wouldn't matter; we only have the fuel for one" or "it doesn't matter how many tanks anybody has when their jabos can roam around at will".
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Wasn't that largely due to one having armour, and other not?
Not really relevant to your point, but still.....
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Sins of the fathers should be forgiven (unless the kids are also evil, that can happen due to parenting). Making airplanes isn't a sin.
Many Euro companies aided Germany, certainly not from choice, but for survival (of the people involved). IBM just helped (Germany and Japanese interment in the US):.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
That a Japanese company would provide for their country in a time of war? It's treason if they didn't. But actually patriotism.
Oh, and Doolittle knew he was on a one way fligh
Scope Restrictions (Score:2)
The reasons all the new generation of regional jets is under extreme pressure is the scope clauses for the US airlines; planes over a certain number of passengers or maximum take-off weight must be flown by mainline pilots and not outsourced to the regional airlines. This makes the economics of aircraft under about 150 seats extremely challenging due to the pilot wage disparities.
The C-Series/A220 seems best positioned for now, with an extremely efficient airframe that has room to grow, and Airbus now back
First F35 Assembled by MHI recently Crashed (Score:2)
Of note, the first F-35 Strike Fighter assembled by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries crashed recently during trials.
https://www.reuters.com/articl... [reuters.com]
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
Not that everyone can't make mistakes, and it is a foreign design, but still notable.
A lot of money (Score:2)
West Germany with the VFW-Fokker 614 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
France tried with its Dassault Mercure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
China is trying with the Comac C919 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The US with Lockheed L-1011 TriStar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The problem is range, design, costs, changing needs, weight, new engine costs.
A decade of new design now makes the perfect jet for
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In the 1970s, Fokker was an established manufacturer of regional jets with their F-28 [wikipedia.org]. By the 1980s, they were looking for a replacement. They tried various routes: first a 'Super F-28' (based on the Boeing 727 fuselage), then an all-new design, the F-29 [wikipedia.org]. Because the company wasn't large enough to finance the new designs, they looked for partnerships (Boeing, Airbus, McD with the MDF-100). Those attempts all failed. Fokker eventually built an upgraded F-28 called the Fokker 100, but never made enough money
Looks very similary to the Sukhoi Regional Jet (Score:2)
The problem with the Sukhoi one is that it had a few accidents and icustomers outside the former Soviet teritorry did not warm up to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
This looks like an attempt to get a larget market.
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Neither of these crashes were the fault of the airplane. But the SSJ is a hangar queen with deliberately inefficient engines, hence the lack of buyers.
Design Flaws ? (Score:2)