Drones Used Missiles With Knife Warhead To Take Out Single Terrorist Targets (arstechnica.com) 327
Zorro shares a report from The Wall Street Journal: The U.S. government has developed a specially designed, secret missile for pinpoint airstrikes that kill terrorist leaders with no explosion (Warning: source paywalled; alternative source), drastically reducing damage and minimizing the chances of civilian casualties. Both the Central Intelligence Agency and the Pentagon have used the weapon while closely guarding its existence. A modified version of the well-known Hellfire missile, the weapon carries an inert warhead. Instead of exploding, it is designed to plunge more than 100 pounds of metal through the tops of cars and buildings to kill its target without harming individuals and property close by.
To the targeted person, it is as if a speeding anvil fell from the sky, the officials said. But this variant of the Hellfire missile, designated as the R9X, also comes equipped with a different kind of payload: a halo of six long blades that are stowed inside and then deploy through the skin of the missile seconds before impact, shredding anything in its tracks. The R9X is known colloquially to the small community of individuals who are familiar with its use as "the flying Ginsu," for the blades that can cut through buildings or car roofs and kill the target. The nickname is a reference to the popular knives sold on TV infomercials in the late 1970s and early 1980s that showed them cutting through both tree branches and tomatoes. The weapon has also been referred to as the Ninja bomb.
To the targeted person, it is as if a speeding anvil fell from the sky, the officials said. But this variant of the Hellfire missile, designated as the R9X, also comes equipped with a different kind of payload: a halo of six long blades that are stowed inside and then deploy through the skin of the missile seconds before impact, shredding anything in its tracks. The R9X is known colloquially to the small community of individuals who are familiar with its use as "the flying Ginsu," for the blades that can cut through buildings or car roofs and kill the target. The nickname is a reference to the popular knives sold on TV infomercials in the late 1970s and early 1980s that showed them cutting through both tree branches and tomatoes. The weapon has also been referred to as the Ninja bomb.
Simple to defeat (Score:2)
I'm buying shares in Kevlar helmets.
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Kevlar isn't really that helpful as a protection against knives. Classic steel helmets work fine, though.
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I doubt that even a steel helmet will protect you against a 100pound razor blade falling on you.
Re: Simple to defeat (Score:2, Funny)
it is as if a speeding anvil fell from the sky
Iâ(TM)d have to think that Wily E Coyote already holds the patent on this.
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Umbrellas it is.
Re:Simple to defeat (Score:5, Funny)
Kevlar isn't really that helpful as a protection against knives. Classic steel helmets work fine, though.
How thoughtful of you. Who ever has to clean up can just slide a piece of cardboard under the helmet and flip it over to remove the mess. Then just wipe up with a Shamwow.
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"Chamois"
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Vince wept.
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Cultural differences. :-)
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This thing goes through cars, not helmets.
It just doesn't explode said cars, that's all.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne... [telegraph.co.uk]
Re:Simple to defeat (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly.
A kevlar helmet will shatter, diffusing some of the force, but the remainder will still be FAR more than enough to cave in your skull.
A steel pot MAY stop penetration, but steel isn't bulletproof. And with that much kinetic force behind it, it'll still cave the helmet (and your skull) in and kill you.
And the blunt force trauma of being hit like that, even if it misses your head, should kill you instantly. And if it hits your head, your head is moving wherever the thing decides it should go.
So, as you said, in either case, your upper spinal column is toast.
It'll be like someone strapped your head to a muscle car with a 1000 foot tether and had the driver floor it.
Whether you want it or not, your head's going someplace.
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A kevlar helmet will shatter
Most certainly not.
And it is a nice protection against knifes, too ... as long as it slashing. They are a bit vulnerable to stabbing, but that is for vests. I would assume if you make a helmet from it, it is like a "linno thorax" and works quite well, too.
Obviously your other observations are right.
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They are a bit vulnerable to stabbing,
What about when the stab is rocket powered to 1000mph?
Re:Simple to defeat (Score:4, Informative)
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Also.
https://youtu.be/KzgiZpCIj1c [youtu.be]
This shows exactly how bulletproof a kevlar is.
Re:Simple to defeat (Score:4, Informative)
Most certainly not.
What the fuck all are you smoking, amigo? .50 BMG punches through a ballistic helmet like it were paper. This is significantly larger and more powerful. It will shatter.
This is a couple-dozen kilogram impactor moving at hundreds of meters per second.
A
Re:Simple to defeat (Score:5, Informative)
No so. Vlad wanted relatively intact corpses to impress his enemies. Nailing an ambasador's turban to his head when he wouldn't remove it wasn't aimed at killing quickly, but at producing maximal effect.
defeat is not the question IMO (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re: defeat is not the question IMO (Score:2)
The military attacks more than just terrorists, so that was a stupid point.
Not every target is a US citizen targeted by Nobel Peace prize-winning US Presidents, so that was a stupid point.
What is amazing is that this device can be so accurate it doesnâ(TM)tâ(TM)t need to explode to ensure the target is hit.
This is, really, a guided, ballistic rail gun.
Re:Simple to defeat (Score:4, Insightful)
If a kinetic weapon gets the job done, why complicate it with explosives?
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The thing weighs 100lbs; even if it was just droped rather than propelled from a helfire toward the target you from much distance above you a helmen isn't going to offer you much protection. So instead of you skull shattering your neck snaps - put that in the win column if you really want to but dead dead.
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For the bike rider, A helmet doesn't offer unlimited protection, but while you head and neck hurt a lot, you probably saved yourself from death, or more dangerous injuries.
Now a helmet for this case is still better then not. Because if it was a glancing hit, the helmet could redirect the knives without digging into your body. However that will often mean your arms will be cut off.
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Depends.
What sort of warfare are they trying to carry out? Terrorism goes both ways. One way to scare the pants out of enemy soldiers is to coldly demonstrate that you can take them out one-by-one at will. It is a display of power. Instead of blowing up a bunker, you wait for the leader to address them, then smash him to the ground right in front of them. You just created a band of rightfully terrorized messenger to spread the word about vengeance delivered from the sky. People become compliant, all o
Re: Simple to defeat (Score:2)
It is 100 pounds, and the knives are to help the projectile âoecut throughâ vegetation, structures, in hopes of passing through the intended target.
Imagine such a strike in a public square - the attack would seem indistinguishable from a meteor strike.
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That's gonna have to be one hell of a helmet... this thing penetrates buildings before it makes you imitate a tangerine...
Re:Simple to defeat (Score:4, Funny)
Phantasm? (Score:3)
is it a shiny silver ball? who plays the creepy alien undertaker?
Here's an actual video of this in action (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
warning--- actual footage of terrorist kill
Re: Simple to defeat (Score:2)
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"I'm buying shares in Kevlar helmets."
I know you couldn't RTFA, but helmets won't help.
'Some officials referred to the weapon as "the flying Ginsu," because the blades can cut through concrete, sheet metal, and other materials surrounding a target.'
Manhacks are real (Score:5, Informative)
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Half-Life 2 predicted the future.
Weren't manhacks just little drones covered with rotating blades that flew around and attacked people repeatedly? Source [fandom.com]
How is that similar to a single-use missile that dumps shrapnel on someone at high velocity? If anything, this knife warhead would be more similar to the missiles in HL2 used as a headcrab delivery system. Source [fandom.com]
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Actually, the first thing I though of was this: http://www.myconfinedspace.com... [myconfinedspace.com]
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An Anonymous Coward claimed:
Iain Banks was there first with the culture contact and special circumstances knife missile. Number 6 on this list: https://www.techradar.com/news... [techradar.com]
Uh ... no. Not even, not at all.
Have you even read Banks' Culture novels?
Unsurprisingly, TechRadar gets it wrong: knife missiles are named for their shape, not their function. They can
function as kinetic weapons, but they're more like autonomous flying Swiss Army knives than self-directed stilletos. They do surveillance and reconnaisance, as well as perimeter defense.
Fact checkers - yet another species on the verge of extinction ...
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Mod parent up.
Also, my own first thought was of a scifi book, but not one of Iain M. Banks - but rather of Dune, by Frank Herbert. Shortly after the Atreides' arrival on Arrakis, there is an assassination attempt on Paul, using a device like a guided knife / dart. I don't have access to my copy of Dune right now, else I'd have looked it up...
Then again, after reading of a differently equipped Hellfire missile, this is a whole different category - I had a picture of a smallish recreational drone in mind, equ
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"using a device like a guided knife / dart"
Hunter-Seeker is the device in question.
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See this missile as an early variant of a knife missile. We have just seen the beginning of the knife missile development and AI now.
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Re: Manhacks are real (Score:2)
Anvil (Score:5, Funny)
To the targeted person, it is as if a speeding anvil fell from the sky,
I assume that the targeted person is Wyle E Coyote?
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The target is the Roadrunner, and if real life holds true to this analogy, Wile E Coyote will be collateral damage. Glad I'm not the one pulling the trigger on this missile!
Re:Anvil (Score:5, Funny)
To the targeted person, it is as if a speeding anvil fell from the sky,
I assume that the targeted person is Wyle E Coyote?
Accelerate Carefully & Mince Enemies = A.C.M.E.
Re:Anvil (Score:5, Funny)
To the targeted person, it is as if a speeding anvil fell from the sky,
I assume that the targeted person is Wyle E Coyote?
Perhaps holding up a little umbrella will help?
Re:Anvil (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps holding up a little umbrella will help?
Maybe just paint a hole on the ground for the missle to disappear into
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Next time, don't look down. We all know that until Coyote looks down, he can walk on air.
Re: Anvil (Score:2)
after effects (Score:3)
Re:after effects (Score:4, Insightful)
If youve ever seen or been to these places, their lives are already a living hell. Life in these shithole countries already gave them PTSD. Theres a reason terrorist were easy to recruit in the first place. Get them all addicted to TV and beer and the recruitment will nosedive.
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If youve ever seen or been to these places, their lives are already a living hell. Life in these shithole countries already gave them PTSD.
Remember what the P stands for in PTSD. There is no "Post", because there isn't even a "Pre". It just IS. They don't have PTSD. They simply have the only hell they've ever known.
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I also wonder if any usable components are left after the fact. These knives are presumably super-tough so that they don't just break on impact, so maybe they have a use. I'd imagine there must be some remnants of the missile itself left too.
Low explosive charges & fine shrapnel (Score:2)
I thought another possible way to reduce collateral casualties and produce very localized killing effects was using "shrapnel" that was very fine and a low explosive charge.
The explosive has enough power to propel the fine shrapnel fast enough that it's lethal within a very short radius 6 - 10 feet, but due to the very fine nature of the shrapnel and the limited charge it doesn't blow out walls or even hurt people in the next room because it loses kinetic energy and momentum so quickly.
I think it was the Is
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I think it was the Israelis who were developing or using this, with the idea they could kill a target in his kitchen without risking the lives of the people in the next room.
While not quite as selective as only affecting one room, it is my understanding that Western pilots have since the end of the first Iraq war been using inert, concrete bombs to take out individual targets such as vehicles, stationary aircraft, or even buildings, without damaging adjacent structures or personnel. It's useful in urban or insurgent style fighting where groups may set up fighting positions or sniper's nests among a civilian population. Of course, a counter to that is one that was used regular
Fine Shrapnel (Score:2)
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My understanding, though, is that the collateral damage is a lot less than any normal anti-personnel explosive round, likely even less than a conventional RPG round, especially considering that they're designed to be delivered with stand-off launchers beyond the range of standard infantry weapons like RPGs.
I don't doubt that standing 10 feet away from the intended target still produces potentially fatal injuries, but considering the idea is shooting a hellfire missile into a room to kill a couple of people
Cultured... (Score:3)
Without attempting to make any statements about the implications, ethics or morality of this development... I had a brief moment upon reading the headline in which I thought, "Oh good, the Culture is here! Special Circumstances, here I come!"
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Exactly my thought ...
It slices, it dices! (Score:4, Funny)
Nice to know that we're taking weapon design cues from Roadrunner cartoons now.
Because the shit Wile E. survived should straight up kill ANYTHING.
Next we need portable holes/train tunnels.
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We've got this technology already. Watch.
*paints tunnel on a wall*
Now run into this wall at a high speed and you'll DEFINITELY go through it.
*smiles evilly*
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Actually, the Brits got good at this during WW2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] That pre-dates Wile E Coyote by a few years ;-)
Flechettes (Score:2)
This doesn't really seem novel... just a large flechette round. Flechettes have been deployed either directly from the muzzle via the rounds' explosion since at least WWI.
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If I'm reading this right, it's not a flechette round; it's not using an explosive to create shrapnel. It's a laser-guided, rocket-propelled spear.
And spears have been around forever. And spears are just pointy sticks, and sticks have been around for eons!
Re: Flechettes (Score:2)
And spears have been around forever. And spears are just pointy sticks, and sticks have been around for eons!
Eons? And what we are talking about is a self-guided ballistic spear with a hundred pound arrow head attached.
Re:Flechettes (Score:5, Informative)
This doesn't really seem novel... just a large flechette round. Flechettes have been deployed either directly from the muzzle via the rounds' explosion since at least WWI.
During WWI they used to spray solid steel flechettes from aircraft over areas where troops were encamped in tents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] People laugh at that sort of stuff as being primitive, but some of the descriptions of what it was like to be on the receiving end of a flechette attack are pretty hair-raising. Years ago I read an account by a British WWI solder who recalled waking up in the early morning to commotion when a German Albatros Biplane flew over the camp and dropped a load of flechettes, he was roused just in time to see a flechette plummet through the top of the tent, through the torso of the guy sleeping next to him and bury itself in the ground under the poor guy's field bed. What made it worse was that sometimes the aircraft wold glide in over the camp silently early in the morning to drop the things. That was particularly nerve racking because, you could usually hear a shell make some kind of sound before it impacted and dive into a fox-hole to avoid the worst of the blast and shrapnel wave, but flechette attacks came from directly above and for marching troops there were no bunkers to hide in and often no warning of the attack.
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I think it is more like the ancient Chinese "Flying Guillotine":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
It has finally come to pass (Score:2)
The "I'm going to get rich when I invent a way to stab someone over the internet" guy finally did it!
Ian M. Banks calling ... (Score:2)
In his culture novels, drones, aka smal AIs, liked to use "knife missiles" against attackers :D
Photos of car it hit in Feb 2017 (Score:5, Interesting)
https://images.wsj.net/im-7310... [wsj.net]
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/art... [thetimes.co.uk]
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.
Do watch some dogfight movies on youtube - and notice how many of the missles just want "ballistic" and went no where near the target. They had to back off that "beyond visual range" crap and start putting guns in fighters again.
They lied about how good the tech was then...what's changed?
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Probably one. The thing about dogfights is that the target is actively evading and taking defensive measures. (ECM, flares, ect.) This was used on someone who was caught unawares. Hellfire missiles are pretty good at hitting stationary targets.
Also, to point out an important aspect of this weapon that everyone so far has missed: The lack of explosive payload makes it much easier to determine if the target was actually killed. Blow a house to kingdom come with a tomahawk and it becomes almost impossible to
One of the earliest applications really (Score:3)
The earliest propelled missiles, the first metal cased rockets used by Tippu Sultan of Mysore kingdom of pre-colonial India against East India Company, were in fact strapped with swords.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
They were the opposite of precision guided systems though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Interestingly, it was these early rockets that were soon improved and repurposed by the British as Congreve rockets and were used against US in the War of 1812 and their descriptions live to this day as "rockets' red glare" in Francis Scott Key's The Star-Spangled Banner.
Assassination drones are ok (Score:2)
Assassination drones are ok as long as you include the word terrorist.
Hey, Elon, I think maybe I WOULD like that one way ticket to Mars after all.
Kinetic energy weapon (Score:3)
To be more concise, this is a kinetic energy weapon (IE it does not use explosives). To prevent the projectile from simply punching a small 7" diameter hole through the target vehicle and passing straight through it (potentially between all the passengers, if it hits the roof in the very center, which is the aim point), additional metal fins were added to at least triple the diameter that is impacted (which pretty much means it's now going to cave in the entire roof of a normal sized car).
These aren't "knives", in that they wouldn't be sharpened. They don't need to be sharp (the missile travels at mach 1.3 - 1000 mph), and it's not desirable for them to be either (again, the idea is to cave in the roof of the entire vehicle, sending all that mass down on the passengers too, so they don't want the fins to cleanly cut through the vehicle).
wonder if a drone is used for laser targeting (Score:2)
AAAAAA... (Score:2)
The awesomeness that could have been (Score:3)
I was hoping for a cruise missile variant which contained a payload of tiny Ninjas.
( BGM-109-N )
It flies over the target, deploys the Ninjas and the chaos begins. . . . . .
Murder by another name (Score:2, Insightful)
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This isn't physics or engineering, with a universal set of unchangin
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You're trolling.
But just for the sake of edification, terrorists are not entitled to protections under the Geneva Conventions because they, as a claimed sovereign entity, do not themselves accept and apply the provisions of same.
The same goes for the due process guaranteed by international law, which only applies to state actors acting on behalf of a nation that accepts and applies those laws.
In other words, any time you are talking about international laws and agreements, they can only legally be applied b
Re:Still murdering without trial. (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorists are not acting on behalf of a nation state. They are acting on behalf of Mohammad, a 7th century pedophile and child rapist descended from an illegitimate child of Abraham, who spread his farcical "faith" with the sword by murdering anyone who refused to accept it.
I was with you until this point. Terrorists can and in fact in some cases do operate on behalf of a nation state(state sponsored terrorism). And terrorism incorporates more than just Islam. There are Christian terrorists, Jewish terrorists, Buddhist terrorists, Hindu terrorists, Sikh terrorists, atheist terrorists, eco terrorists, anarchist terrorists, nationalist terrorists, right-wing terrorists, left wing terrorists, Marxist terrorists, Maoists terrorists, fascist terrorists, etc. Just about the only belief structure, ideology, or other "ism" that doesn't have an associated terrorist group is pacifism and, given human nature, that's bound to have one eventually as well.
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Terrorists are not acting on behalf of a nation state. They are acting on behalf of Mohammad, a 7th century pedophile and child rapist descended from an illegitimate child of Abraham, who spread his farcical "faith" with the sword by murdering anyone who refused to accept it.
I was with you until this point. Terrorists can and in fact in some cases do operate on behalf of a nation state(state sponsored terrorism). And terrorism incorporates more than just Islam. There are Christian terrorists, Jewish terrorists, Buddhist terrorists, Hindu terrorists, Sikh terrorists, atheist terrorists, eco terrorists, anarchist terrorists, nationalist terrorists, right-wing terrorists, left wing terrorists, Marxist terrorists, Maoists terrorists, fascist terrorists, etc. Just about the only belief structure, ideology, or other "ism" that doesn't have an associated terrorist group is pacifism and, given human nature, that's bound to have one eventually as well.
But in this context, who are we dropping this warhead on? Are we dropping it on Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, atheist, etc terrorists?
Re: Still murdering without trial. (Score:2)
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As long as you do it in your own country, nobody is going to bother you. What I have a problem with is when you do it in mine. Because last time I checked I don't have to wear a uniform around here to not be a legal target for someone with too much time and money at his hands.
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I'm going to talk as if you're American, forgive me if that's incorrect.
I'm sure the innocent citizens caught up in this who had no right to a fair trial, to see their accusers, to argue their case, to be immune from foreign laws in their own country, etc. are so relieved that they aren't entitled to the Geneva convention because the guy they got into a car with was a (suspected) terrorist who may not ever have committed any act against the US or any other country.
I'm not saying we should defend terrorists.
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By your logic American soldiers are not eligible for protection as the US govt does not respect Geneva at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.
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The pedophile thing comes from the fact that at least 3 of his wives are documented as having been around 9 at the time the marriages were consummated. This is not denied by mainstream Islamic scholars, and was fairly widespread practice at the time.
Western cultures at the time were marrying off women around the age of 12, so not much better. There are extremists from both sides who would support it still being the norm.
Joan, the daughter of English king Edward II was 7 years old when she was married off to the (eventual) king of the Scotts David II, who was only 4 at the time.
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Even if Aisha was 9 at the time it is worth keeping in mind that just because a girl was married at a young age did not mean that (a) the marriage was immediately consummated
She was *six* at the time of marriage. Yes, it was not consummated immediately, *that* happened when she was nine.
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What the hell does it have to do with western cultures in the 7th century? The estimated age of first marriage for women was around 19 years in Late Antiquity. [google.com]
Ok, you want Western world, 7th century. Here you go:
Wikipedia on Roman families-Legally, a girl was considered a child until she was twelve years old and a boy until he was fourteen years old. Young girls were often engaged at twelve years old and married at thirteen to a man chosen by her father.
Not Western enough? How about Vikings? They married as early as 12 as well.
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Either that or declare war. Call a spade a spade at least.
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