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China Businesses Technology

Following US Huawei Ban, China Threatens Own Blacklist For Foreign Firms (techcrunch.com) 187

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
Odds of the U.S. and China cooling off their trade war further diminished on Friday after the world's most populous nation said it would create a list of "unreliable" foreign firms of its own. From a report: Gao Feng, a spokesman of China's commerce ministry, said today that the nation will create an "entity list" that will include, in part, foreign companies that have stopped or curtailed their businesses with Chinese firms. "Foreign enterprises, organizations or individuals that do not comply with market rules, deviate from a contract's spirit or impose blockades or stop supplies to Chinese enterprises for non-commercial purposes, and seriously damage the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese enterprises, will be included on a list of 'unreliable entities,'" he was quoted as saying by state-owned local media. The retaliation comes weeks after the U.S. Commerce Department enlisted Huawei and 68 affiliates in an entity list over national security concerns, thereby requiring American companies to take approval from the government before conducting business with Chinese firms.
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Following US Huawei Ban, China Threatens Own Blacklist For Foreign Firms More

Following US Huawei Ban, China Threatens Own Blacklist For Foreign Firms

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  • China's protection of Huawei is scary (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sbrown123 ( 229895 ) on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:06AM (#58685444) Homepage

    The level China is willing to go for a single company is rather scary. And all those subsidies to them by the government, and sleazy operations like what they did in stealing that robot arm should give every country in the world pause. Regardless of the US and China trade deal, Huawei needs to improve its image before anyone should do business with them.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:21AM (#58685510)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by TXJD ( 5534458 )
        Have you been following the amount of fines that have been levied on Google, Apple, etc. by the EU? But we don't react in the same way.

        • Re:China's protection of Huawei is scary (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ) on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:30AM (#58685548)

          Have you been following the amount of fines that have been levied on Google, Apple, etc. by the EU? But we don't react in the same way.

          Is Apple really a US company though? Judging by their taxes you would assume they're an Irish company.

        • Re:China's protection of Huawei is scary (Score:5, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:03AM (#58685732)

          Have you observed the process by which those fines have been levied?

          Have you noticed the years of warnings and appeals for "market self-regulation", the public process for proposals, the lobbying by the Googles and the Apples against the legislation, the actual implementation, the process of implementing those by national laws, the long adaptation times, the possibility to actually contest those in courts, etc?

          Contrast this with the arbitrary, unprincipled US tantrumps that happen overnight without warning and maybe you'll understand how these are different from what the US does.

        • Have you been following the amount of fines that have been levied on Google, Apple, etc. by the EU? But we don't react in the same way.

          Don't we? As with China and dictatorships worldwide, pols go into government to get in the way, to get paid to get back out of the way. To direct business models to their cronies (as was done in Seoul, outlawing Uber then cronies picked up the business model unhampered).

          It's tamped down in the West, but there's a reason Congressmen finish their careers multimillionaires in spite of a limited salary.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          We are talking about mere fines here. In the case of Huawei, the US has been trying to do a death sentence by telling all countries not to purchase their products, when that didn't work they are now trying to stop the selling of silicon and other tech to Huawei. There's a clear difference here. Why not because of supposed security issues that NSA/CIA refuses to disclose to their allies intelligence agencies, but because (1) Huawei has leapfrogged Western tech in several areas; (2) As Snowden reports, hav

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Anonymous Coward

            (1) Huawei has Stolen Western tech in several areas;

            FTFY

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        All the geopolitics aside, when Huawei started locking bootloaders and taking a stance against unlocking them on their devices, it doesn't give a vibe of trust.

        If Huawei opened their phones, allowing LineageOS to run, or even shipping phones with LineageOS or other ROMs, open sourced their Linux kernel SoC drivers, and allowed the xda-developer crowd to use their devices to the fullest, Huawei would get a dedicated worldwide following that would keep them as a contender. Of course, people doing custom ROMs

      • Re:China's protection of Huawei is scary (Score:4, Informative)

        by kamapuaa ( 555446 ) on Friday May 31, 2019 @12:45PM (#58686332) Homepage

        China already does ban its citizens from Google, Facebook, and even fucking Wikipedia. I am a big Obama fan. I am not a big Trump fan. But China frequently bans American tech already, and Obama (and GW Bush) should have done a retaliatory boycott of Chinese tech companies years ago. While that's not really the reason for what Trump is doing here, China doesn't have a leg to stand on.

      • The onus is on Huawei to prove it's trustworthy

        No it isn't. Apart from the obvious "innocent until proven guilty" argument the claim that they are not trustworthy is coming from a government that has not only been shown to be doing exactly what they are accusing Huawei of but which has also used "national security" arguments purely for economic benefit without any truth to the claims....well that is unless you really believe that Canadian steel and aluminium exports to the US pose a dire national security threat to you (besides given the obesity epidem

      • The onus is on Huawei to prove it's trustworthy

        Guilty until proven innocent then? Why don't you say the same about Apple? Can Apple prove 100% that they have no surveillance tech in their phones? Post Snowden I think it is only fair to assume that no American company can be trusted not to essentially be a branch of the NSA. Every American company that has the potential to aid mass surveillance should be assumed to be spying for the NSA. I'd rather by spied on by China than by the US. So for that reason alone I'd go with a Chinese phone except they mostl

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by tsqr ( 808554 )

          The onus is on Huawei to prove it's trustworthy

          Guilty until proven innocent then?

          Oh, brother. First, Huawei is not on trial in a US court, so your aphorism doesn't apply. Second, trust is not an unalienable right; it must be earned. And once it's earned, the standard protocol is "trust, but verify."

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        plugged in a huawei stick wifi extender i bought for a dron craft, tried to see how good it was on my home network, instantly started sending data to some unknown ip's

    • if the US is attacking Huawei as part of the trade war then China is right to stand up when we single out one of their companies. That said, I don't have enough background to say if Huawei really is a security threat and I've read too much contradicting summaries (and have been too lazy to look for real research papers :) )

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        An oppressive communist dictatorship running death camps in its north west is not right, and shouldn't stand, is not on the up, not now or ever. I wouldn't single out any of their companies, I'd ban them all.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Cederic ( 9623 )

          An oppressive fascist regime running offshore torture camps doesn't however have the moral high ground.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Mashiki ( 184564 )

            Are you talking about the EU? Cause they still operate those. But if you think the US is fascist, you've got a serious problem understanding what fascist is. Just keeping in mind that one of the only reasons that gitmo is still open, is because the terrorists home countries refuse to accept them as prisoners or in many cases military prisoners.

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by aliquis ( 678370 )

              Communists in general has a poor understanding of just about everything.
              Or is at least fine lying about it.

    • Re:China's protection of Huawei is scary (Score:5, Funny)

      by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:43AM (#58685612)
      What's more scary is how far our country is willing to go to protect a single company like Goldman Sachs. At least Huawei makes something useful.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It's not just one company. DJI is being targeted now.

      Anyway, the US would do the same of it was Apple.

    • Re:China's protection of Huawei is scary (Score:5, Informative)

      by Austerity Empowers ( 669817 ) on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:58AM (#58685706)

      The level China is willing to go for a single company is rather scary.

      This is the real news. China at times bans or disables our companies working in their country and we don't do much about it. Either Google (for example) works within their laws or pulls out. There might be grassroots efforts to condemn China because of their obvious fear of truth and an educated public, but I don't think we've threatened to ban any of their companies in retaliation.

      Huawei is a bad actor and needs to be thrown out the window. By defending them so fiercely, it's fairly easy to see that the accusations of Huawei in terms of espionage (industrial and otherwise) must therefore be true; I mean other than the ones that have already gone to court and they've lost.

    • The level China is willing to go for a single company is rather scary.

      This tells you it's the one the elites have their financial claws sunk deepest into (wouldn't rule out Tik Tok, too, mostrous growth curiously unscathed by government).

    • T And all those subsidies to them by the government, and sleazy operations like what they did in stealing that robot arm should give every country in the world pause. Regardless of the US and China trade deal, Huawei needs to improve its image before anyone should do business with them.

      Because no US government or US business have ever done the same have they? Oh wait, that's right, they have on multiple occasions and that's before we even get to things like the NSA's favourite hacking tool which recently leaked onto the web.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      There are also billions of personal wealth at risk.

      The whole country is run by a totalitarian-capitalism complex. The government has deep interest in Huawei: on one side, it provides much needed communication infrastructure for the massive military and police operations; on the other side, it also provides investment opportunities for the high-level officials who have connections ( the level of wealth is measured by billions with a big B!)

      The company is private, with no obligation to disclose any detailed

    • So that the US mobilizes its whole nation state to bully a foreign competitor without any actual evidence is all OK, but Chinese government retaliates to protect its own companies is not? Hypocrites never feel shaemful applying double standard.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by aliquis ( 678370 )

        Liberals know.

      • The American government and their supporters never understand hypocrisy. It's always do as they say and not do as they do.

        Every few years the issue of softwood lumber tariffs comes up between Canada and the US. The US claims that logs harvested off of crown land in Canada (government land) are unfairly subsidized and so anything processed needs to have a tariff applied. But if we send the logs to the south there's no tariff applied. The tariff is really something to protect/create jobs in the US. If it was

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by aliquis ( 678370 )

      Why do you think it's got anything to do with Huawei rather than global power, influence, bullying, trade, competition, fairness, image ...

      China want to show that they too can and feel confident in their capability both as market and in production.

    • Perhaps you could make a list and tell us what Huawei did wrong.

      We here in Europe fail to see it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dryeo ( 100693 )

        Refused to help the US spy on Europe and other countries. Can't have companies that don't obey national security letters.

    • The level China is willing to go for a single company is rather scary.

      I know. It was truly horrible when they bailed a heavily indebted car manufacturer using tax dollars.

  • Oh nos teh Chinese will stop buying their one copy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:10AM (#58685460)
    Super worried that we'll stopping selling that one copy of each piece of software or tech that America releases. (The bit: Don't really see much downside with all the piracy/reverse-engineering that goes on after China government/industry acquires its first and only legitimate copy from the US.)

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The Chinese market is huge for US companies. The US market is fairly saturated in many areas, while China is growing fast. If they cut off say Microsoft or Apple it would be a huge blow to them.

      • lolz, don't worry, Apple and Microsoft will survive it.

        I think trade wars are stupid and counterproductive to say the least but...

        a lot of chinese good we have to buy are substandard crap, maybe I'll be able to get some better goods for the home.

        we probably should never have started doing business with China in the first place because of their near-slavery labor conditions, ethnic persecution, right abuses....but that ship sadly already sailed.

        • lolz, don't worry, Apple and Microsoft will survive it.

          Survive, and perhaps thrive. Big economic upheavals nearly always benefit the wealthiest the most, or at least harm them the least. This is because people (or companies) with lots of cash have the most resources available to cushion the blows and find the opportunities.

          It's the little guys (individuals and companies) who will be hurt the most.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The Chinese market is huge for US companies.

        No it isn't. Massive tariffs, having to move a significant portion of manufacturing over there to sell legally, and having to partner with a local company and give them 50% of revenue just to operate legally. Then there's the obvious threat of your IP being stolen by the local manufacturers and sold back in the US, which hits everyone including powerful companies like Apple. There's little rational reason to do business in China.

        Trade deficits nearly everyone has with China aren't going to go away. The upsi

      • Microsoft or Apple, you say? Trump doesn't care about them. Banning Boeing would hurt the US just as much, kicking the company while it is down anyway, it also would hit Trump closer to home.

    • We sell a lot of tech (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:56AM (#58685688)
      it's just mostly high end manufacturing and medical tech. US manufacturing output and exports are the highest they've ever been. We just don't make consumer grade tech so you don't notice it.

      OTOH we don't employ a lot in our manufacturing sector thanks to automation and the simple fact that if you're selling 10, $5 million dollar MRI machines a year you just don't need that many employees to build them. So we're in a much better spot to weather those job losses.

      On the other other hand we're fighting a trade war to bring back jobs that are never going to come back. Even China is automating. My last video card proudly proclaimed it was made with 100% automation. The implication being no human error was possible, but it means there's practically nobody involved in large scale electronics manufacturing.

      If the factories came back the jobs wouldn't, so we might end up wrecking our economy (and China's) over nothing but some cheap political points in rust belt swing states.
      • I'm worried we have the same problem Britain had with Brexit, where a large population of retirees voted for things they know will hurt the economy because they themselves no longer directly participate in the economy and therefore are willing to trade nationalism for economic prosperity.

        I've seen a few interviews with old Brexiteers where they acknowledge that it will be terrible for the economy but that maintaining 100% British Autonomy is worth it. They seem to be looking wistfully back at the Britis

    • China should ban everything american (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      ... before the brain-death that is so visible on Slashdot infects them.

      Fortunately both Europe and Russia recognized the american disease a while back and began to safeguard their respective territories against unbridled US corporatism and mass sociopathic insanity.

      Unlikely as it seems, Trump has made an important contribution to the world. Everyone is now aware that USA doesn't believe in a level playing field of equal partners, but only in a world where USA dictates all the rules, does all the surveillan

  • From credit rating, to Uber driver / passengers ratings, moving into a Corp alliance score. The latter exists custom tailored in various companies strategies but now moving into a political realm. China has AI for consumers and people so this is coming forward sooner due to trade frictions. Drawing friend or foe lines as battles escalate.

  • This is great for film lovers (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:48AM (#58685646)

    Once upon a time Hollywood cared about things like censorship. Now Hollywood has become China's lap dog and self censors many films just so that they can be exported to China. This has also resulted in many films being watered down on plot and dialogue for export purposes. I'd rather not have dumbed down movies.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      > Once upon a time Hollywood cared about things like censorship.

      LOL When was this? Hollywood has always self-censored, that's literally what the MPAA is.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dryeo ( 100693 )

        > Once upon a time Hollywood cared about things like censorship.

        LOL When was this? Hollywood has always self-censored, that's literally what the MPAA is.

        Back in the '20's and earlier. Then the Hays code was introduced in 1930 and really took off in 1934 as the studios figured self censorship was better then government censorship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
        Remember that the Supreme Court decided in 1915 that the 1st amendment didn't apply to movies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

  • Chicken feet and pig ears?

    REAL Chinese food is weird and scary.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Mashiki ( 184564 )

      Nah. China will want to import as much as possible, since they currently have four serious problems with their food supply. The first is a rampant hemorrhagic disease decimating their pig farms. The second is a rampant viral disease that causes chickens to go insane and attack themselves and other chickens. The third is a fungal disease currently destroying large swaths of wheat and rye crop. The fourth is an outbreak of locusts which is chewing it's way through food and livestock crops. Big problems

  • Get Real (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    China?
    You mean the guys that have 0 respect for western copyrights?
    The people that have already banned most of our Social Media?
    The guys that work people six days a week twelve hours a day?
    The Folks that Host other country's IT sweat shops?
    The Country that forces criminals to give up their organs?
    The Country that is going 1984 Plus Good at turbo speeds with their Social Credit System?
    The State that take over Private Business and Lands of their own on Foreign Soil?
    The State that builds up "Lost Islands" to c
  • Just curious, what has not yet been blocked in China yet? Even movies have a quota.

  • In order to do any business in China, your company has to have the blessings of the Chinese Government anyway.
    So what, exactly, is going to change ?

    The way I see it, this will sting China much more than it will the US since China's exports to the US are nearly 5X that of the US exports to China.
    ( $540B vs $120B )

    When your ENTIRE ECONOMY is reliant upon -foreign- purchases of products you manufacture, it is rather important to keep those products flowing if you wish to ensure it remains healthy.

  • At least it's not a real war.

  • It is going to be much, much easier for the US to give up Huawei than for China to give up the American firms like Google, Microsoft, Netflix, FB, etc.

    They might give up some chinsy ones like Salesforce or Whole Foods or something like that and then declare victory.

    Since their citizens are starting to get attached to iPhones and stuff like that, it might not go so well.

    If the Great Wall becomes the next Iron Curtain it could lead to a similar collapse.

  • China already bans foreign firms (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    China has been banning foreign forms for many many years. Facebook and Google are 2 examples.

    Plus there are all the companies unwilling to give up their trade secrets that are banned already. And there are the companies unwilling to partner with the Chinese that are banned.

    Trump would have acted like a bully either way, but let's not pretend that China doesn't already act like thugs.

    • They pulled out because they didn't want to censor (as required under Chinese law). Facebook is the same.

      Plus there are all the companies unwilling to give up their trade secrets that are banned already. And there are the companies unwilling to partner with the Chinese that are banned.

      They choose not to play the game. That's not the same as being banned from the game.
      Their country, their rules. If you don't want to sell there, don't.

      If the shoe was on the other foot, would you allow Chinese firms to just ignore any American laws they didn't like? Would America just let them?

  • The American Dream: How to become the biggest asshole you can be.

  • The Chunese are discovering that when you have been strangling the flow of goods into your country and imposing huge tariffs for decades while exporting mountains of goods into another country without tariffs, and you get into a trade war with that other country, you have no ammunition - you've disarmed yourself.

    In what alternate universe does anything China threatens on trade cause more pain to the US than what they've been doing since the 1990s?

    In every single way that the US depends on China, the US was

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