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Transportation EU Government

EU Laws Requiring Audible Warning Sounds For Electric Cars Take Effect July 1 273

Posted by BeauHD from the too-quiet-for-their-own-good dept.
Starting July 1st, electric vehicles with four or more wheels must be fitted with an "Acoustic Vehicle Alert System" (AVAS) if they want to be able to legally drive in the European Union. With AVAS, vehicles would make a continuous noise of at least 56 decibels if the car's going 20 km/h (12 mph) or slower. New Atlas reports: Designed to address the public's fear of quiet electric vehicles, the new laws require cars -- not motorcycles -- to make some kind of noise at slower speeds. The noise, which isn't prescribed to be any particular sound, must rise and fall in pitch to signal whether the vehicle is accelerating or decelerating.

Fifty-six decibels isn't particularly loud, mercifully -- it's about the sound level of a running air con unit or electric toothbrush. A diesel truck, for example, will make about 85 decibels when it passes, and the rules state that the warning sounds can't be any louder than 75 decibels, or about the noise level of a regular dinosaur burning car. So the AVAS systems will make no difference at all to people who walk around with earphones in. Jaguar has decided to go with a "weird kind of spaceship sound," while BMW has gone with something that sounds more like a traditional engine. Nissan "seems to have gone for a bit of a jet airliner feel," writes Loz Blain for New Atlas.
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EU Laws Requiring Audible Warning Sounds For Electric Cars Take Effect July 1 More

EU Laws Requiring Audible Warning Sounds For Electric Cars Take Effect July 1

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  • In other news ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:00AM (#58729744)

    Bicycles need to use a playing card, fitted to the rear wheel, to warn pedestrians.

  • Oh FFS, more EU BS (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:06AM (#58729764) Homepage

    How much noise does a Rolls Royce or any other rexecutive car make at 12mph? Almost nothing, the engines are inaudible. In fact most modern petrol car engines are quiet when idling or at low rpm. Will the dumb beaurocrats require those to make some silly sound too?

    Yet another Sounds Like A Good Idea nonsense from Brussels that is an idiotic idea in the real world.

    • Re:Oh FFS, more EU BS (Score:5, Interesting)

      by fazig ( 2909523 ) on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:22AM (#58729808)
      Ahem, at least some of the higher tier European car makers, like Porsche, have added artificial engine sounds a while ago.
      I've seen their soundlab for engine testing in the Weissach development centre, when we visited it with our control systems engineering professor in the mid 2000's (focus was on the bus systems used in Porsches).

      So why did they do this? Allegedly, because the customers complained that the new cars didn't sound like the old ones. So they always try to replicate the authentic Porsche sound with artificial means if necessary.

      A common complaint from regular people I hear around my (South Western) parts in Germany is that electric cars are too silent.

      Therefore I think that at least a subset of people has gotten used to the noise as a warning sign for an approaching motorized vehicle. It's not simply bureaucrats who came up with this. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the German MEPs who pushed this.

      • Re:Oh FFS, more EU BS (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:57AM (#58729880) Homepage

        Artificial engine sound is for the audio pleasure of the driver and is done via the cabin sound system, it can't be heard outside the vehicle. It is completely different to what's being proposed here.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by fazig ( 2909523 )
          They test for both interior and exterior sound from the setup I've seen. The anechoic chamber is large enough to fit even the largest Porsches, some high end microphones, high speed cameras (for test with just engine blocks if I remember correctly) and still leave plenty of room to walk around the setup.

          But yes, without a doubt the primary concern is the driver. They are the ones who (usually) pay for those cars.

        • Wow. 2 for 2. It's the second time you made silly assumptions about what "artificial sound" is being talked about rather than actually researching the topic. There are precisely zero electric cars on the market that put sound into the engine cabine, something traditionally done by muscle cars.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] Here's an example of that sound that "can't be heard outside the vehicle"

          Common, go for the trifecta. Say something else completely ignorant! Going 3 for 3 here. Don't let us down!

          • How silly are you?
            He answered to the Porsche comment. Yes, they have artificial engine sound inside of the cabin. BMW started it. The engines were to silent, and drivers complaint about missing "sound feed back" ... old news, 20 years old.
            Go back under your rock.

      • Ahem, at least some of the higher tier European car makers, like Porsche, have added artificial engine sounds a while ago.

        There were artificial engine noises in a low-end Peugeot I rented last month.

        Press the "sport" button and a farty noise comes out of the speakers (at least put in a V12 or something, jeez)

      • Yeah, but that sound is _inside of the vehicle_ not outside for the pedestrians.

        A common complaint from regular people I hear around my (South Western) parts in Germany is that electric cars are too silent.
        They definitely are to silent. I got sneaked up by one once from behind, in a yacht harbour, no idea if it legally was allowed to drive there, anyway, nearly died to a heart attack.

    • Re:Oh FFS, more EU BS (Score:4, Insightful)

      by vadim_t ( 324782 ) on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:57AM (#58729886) Homepage

      You are aware that stuff like this tends to happen because of dead people, right?

      It's not some bureaucrat sitting around with too much free time and coming up with weird laws to pass. But that somebody got run over by an electric car, didn't like it, and went complaining to their representatives. And the representatives want to be seen as doing something, so they do.

      So, if you don't like this kind of thing, pass it around: if you or your mate gets run over by a silent car, don't complain! Tell them broken bones and dead people are a good price to pay for not having more regulations.

    • I don't think you realize how silent an EV is. My Renault Zoe is not audible above a normal conversation.

      I know this because once, I turned the audible noise off. Not sure why but when I returned from my trip, I drove up to the parking lot and was approaching two girls talking. They had their backs toward me and the car crawls up behind them. When I reach a free spot, I start turning and the girls yelp loudly. Because the sound of the turning front tires was more audible than their conversation.

      Anyway, I ag

      • I agree with you that this law is bullshit because all EVs I know already have this. It's simply codifying existing best practices into law.
        Seems you are an idiot. Why is a law that codifies best practice bullshit? Without that law people can ignore "best practice", with the law not.
        Anyway, that is how EU law making works, and that is true for most member states anyway: if some technology is "state of the art", like set belts, they get mandatory roughly 10 years after they established themselves. So a law i

    • How much noise does a Rolls Royce or any other rexecutive car make at 12mph?

      More than what is legally required by this EU law which is how they formed the basis of this law. But thanks for playing.

      Yet another Sounds Like A Good Idea nonsense from Brussels that is an idiotic idea in the real world.

      Ignorant people who like to run their mouths rather than actually researching what they are talking about often think that.

  • Stupid law (Score:5, Insightful)

    by qbast ( 1265706 ) on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:09AM (#58729772)
    That's a step in exactly wrong direction - electric cars allow to finally do something about noise pollution in the cities. Instead of encouraging it, EU decides to add even more noise just because some idiots won't bother to look up from their phones before stepping onto a street.

    • Re:Stupid law (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:22AM (#58729810)

      At least the first video, was all about the blind. Same concept as those beeping crosswalks.

      I think I don't mind this as a transitory thing. For example, I can see it being an issue when you have both petrol AND electric cars on the road. In such a case, gas cars might mask the sound of an electric nearby.

      (Someone commented on how quiet some petrol cars are, and indeed some are! Yet.. there are a lot that aren't, and a lot of older ones that aren't)

      So, I'm all for this "for now". And really, you mention noise? Even those crosswalk "BEEP BEEP!" sounds will need to be tamed down a bit, once all gas cars vanish! They're made loud enough that when traffic goes roaring away from the opposite direction, they can be heard. Won't be necessary as much with all electrics.

      Hmm.

      You know, a final thought. There are going to be a lot more people mad at their neighbours. I live in the country, and I can hear my neighbour get into his car, and drive away.. and that's on 1 acre lots, and trees between us and so forth. I can hear him shut the door. I hear every car drive by on the road.

      Why? It's VERY QUIET out here.

      So when all petrol cars are removed from the equation, and the city becomes much more quiet, noise from neighbouring apartments and homes will become much, much more audible. And more so, without the constant 'hum' of cars and such, the 'peaks' of noise.. it being quiet, then BANG! really loud, will be much more intense.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Livius ( 318358 )

        How are people ever going to get rid of the nuisance? No-one has yet suggested getting rid of the stupid beeping traffic signals, even though we've had the technology to give every visually impaired person a better smart-phone solution for decades. Too many misguided people like the nuisances because it's lets them pretend their making some kind of virtuous sacrifice, when in reality everyone suffers and no-one benefits.

      • A beeping crosswalk guides them to the button that activates the crossing signal.

        You don't need to guide them to cars that are passing in the roadway. If they have a walking stick they can detect the edge of the curb and stay on the sidewalk.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by idji ( 984038 )
      This is completely stupid. I lived in Southern California with Teslas and Priuses driving around everywhere. You always heard them coming - even when gliding slowly out of their driveways - it was a very pleasant hum. I had no problem letting my children play on the crossroads near our house. This idiocy will go away like the man ringing the bell before a car 100 years ago.

      • But you do know that the "pleasant hum" is an artificial sound, exactly what the EU is cementing in law now for all EVs?

      • Re:Stupid law (Score:4, Informative)

        by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Saturday June 08, 2019 @11:19AM (#58730858)

        I lived in Southern California with Teslas and Priuses driving around everywhere. You always heard them coming - even when gliding slowly out of their driveways - it was a very pleasant hum.

        You can hear them because the U.S. already has a law [wikipedia.org] requiring they make noise. The hum is played through a speaker under the hood [youtube.com]. The Priuses from before the law were completely silent at low speed.

        • We're still in the pre-rule period.

          From the link you provided but didn't read:

          The regulation requires full compliance in September 2020, but 50% of "quiet" vehicles must have the warning sounds by September 2019.

    • FWIW, when I'm on a bicycle, I'm very much aware of motorized traffic behind me thanks to acoustic cues. Bikes generally don't have rear-view mirrors. I can tell whether it's a car, a truck, or a moped. When I'm on a bicycle track, I I need to pay attention to moped sounds. The electric ones that suddenly zoom past (way above the speed limit) without warning scare the hell out of me.

      On holidays in certain South-European countries, it is amusing how car and truck drivers think it's necessary to honk the hor

      • You could always get blinkers (a human version of horse blinders) and then the cars won't scare you anymore. :)

      • You misunderstand.

        Those trucks run over a lot of bicyclists who ride on the same roads that heavy trucks use. They don't really want to run you over, but if they do they don't want to feel guilty either. They think you're an idiot, and if they still run you over after honking, they can sleep soundly because from their perspective it was your fault.

    • How about limiting the noise they can make? The old myth that "Short pipes save lives" is just that, a myth.

      • How about just limiting the amount of noise any vehicle can make, period? I had a person down the street that moved away about a month ago. He had a pick-up truck that was so loud I could hear him accelerate from the traffic lights three or four blocks away. I'm in the suburbs so it's quieter here than in downtown. Now if the guy with the loud motorcycle would move things would get a bit quieter. The motorcycle is even louder than the truck.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      From TFS: minimum warning sound level for electric cars is 56 dB, a diesel truck passing is 85 dB.
      It means you need 795 electric cars to match the noise level of a single diesel truck. Or if you take the loudest allowed warning sound of 75 dB, you still need 10 cars to match a truck.

      56 dB is rather quiet. I don't think it will contribute significantly to noise pollution in cities. In busy cities that would be drawn completely by other noise unless you are right next to the car, which is the point. And in q

    • That's a step in exactly wrong direction

      But is it? 56db is less than the sound of an idling engine, and 20km/h is a speed limit exclusively used in shared pedestrian zones in many European countries, even school zones have a higher speed limit than this.

      Don't worry, your noisy world will be getting quieter.

    • You are an idiot. Cars in Europe are so quiet you barely hear them. Noise pollution was 30 years ago ...

      because some idiots won't bother to look up from their phones before stepping onto a street.
      You are really an idiot, aren't you? What has such idiotic mindset to do with the problem? You approach a street with your bike, you are used to know ahead how it looks like and slow down accordingly. Now suddenly a car shows up ...

      Or you are simply standing a round 3 cars come from three sides and you don't notice

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It isn't beyond the wit of man to develop a sound that isn't irritating, and which is primarily projected forward.

    • You can take all the precaution you can but we human have limited visibility at night, we have dead angle in cities, etc... Believe it or not but people on foot have a right to pass through zebra where there is no red light , they have a right to walk where there are car parked (and there are plenty of driver being too stupid to pay attention if there is somebody walking when they get out of parking), and plenty of other situation where noise act as a warning signal, this is especially true since we have be

  • This is stupid. Cars make sound just by the friction of the wheels on the road.

    Much better to require all electric cars to have sensors to evade accidents.

    But maybe to show how insane this is, maybe a couple car companies will allow drivers to choose their own sound, like the ring tone for a car. I would love to have mine be some kid just saying "room roooooom" over and over again.

    • Much better to require all electric cars to have sensors to evade accidents.

      A lot of modern cars already have this, and the EU will make automatic emergency braking a mandatory feature on all new cars in 2021. Along with drowsiness detection, lane keeping assist, and parking cameras or sensors.

    • This is stupid. Cars make sound just by the friction of the wheels on the road.

      Yeah, above 20km/h that sound is audible too. Below it on the other hand...

  • hack, hack... (Score:3)

    by lkcl ( 517947 ) <lkcl@lkcl.net> on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:30AM (#58729826) Homepage

    i look forward to the next slashdot report: electric cars hacked to tell pedestrians, "Get out the f*****g way!"

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Zocalo ( 252965 )
      Funny, and probably inevitable, but it'll also almost certainly be used for marketing. There was a video [youtube.com] doing the rounds a while back of a Dominos motorbike made to sound like it was saying "Dominos" over and over again. Think about how many commercial vehicles there are on the roads, now think about how it's going to sound on the street when all those vehicles start advertising their owner's services. Now, what do you think the response to that might be?

      Congrats EU; you just passed a law that'll enc

  • bring back red flags, i say! (Score:4, Informative)

    by lkcl ( 517947 ) <lkcl@lkcl.net> on Saturday June 08, 2019 @05:34AM (#58729834) Homepage

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    say, haven't we seen this before? like... in 1865?? bring back men walking in front of vehicles, waving a red flag, i say!

  • Society generally always hostile to change (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 08, 2019 @06:01AM (#58729896)

    Reminds me of laws that existed shortly after the introduction of the automobile.

    Examples:

    1. Automobiles traveling on country roads at night must send up a rocket every mile, then wait ten minutes for the road to clear. The driver may then proceed, with caution, blowing his horn and shooting off Roman candles, as before.

    2. If the driver of an automobile sees a team of horses approaching, he is to stop, pulling over to one side of the road, and cover his machine with a blanket or dust cover which is painted or colored to blend into the scenery, and thus render the machine less noticeable.

    3. In case a horse is unwilling to pass an automobile on the road, the driver of the car must take the machine apart as rapidly as possible and conceal the parts in the bushes.

  • ... that the EU is right up there with our friends across the pond when it's time again to make idiot laws for idiots.

    My 2 eurocents.

  • I walk a mile a day, sometimes more and until ev's become the majority of cars this is probably a good thing - you can hear a car or van / larger thing with a petrol engine coming, an ev makes a low pitched whine sound at present and it gives me no idea how fast it is approaching me.

    Here is an example near me is a single track road and i think a nissian ev uses it when i walk past despite looking both ways it seems the ev always breaks, normal cars do not have to since i aware by hearing it

    So yes this d

    • I walk a mile a day, sometimes more

      Closer to three a day for me...

      until ev's become the majority of cars this is probably a good thing - you can hear a car or van / larger thing with a petrol engine coming

      I have a different system - I just look both ways before I step into the street. It's worked remarkably well for me - haven't been hit by a car, electric or otherwise, in several decades of walking....

      • Give it time. One day, you'll get hit by a delivery drone that just had a catastrophic failure.

      • I have a different system - I just look both ways before I step into the street.
        This is not a different system. This is the standard system.

        If you had a different system you would wear a geeky hat that has rear mirrors so you hear .... ooops ... see if an EV is approaching from behind.

        But perhaps you are a paranoid high alert person that does not really enjoy walking but is hawk eye and eagle eye scanning its environment for silent threats?

        I prefer walking at leassure, where stuff makes noise, so my mental

  • I'll be very disappointed if someone doesn't make a car that sounds like George Jetson's car [youtube.com].

  • ...the noise emitted by his car, this could be a very strong selling point for EV cars!

  • Most ICE cars and trucks make more or less the same noise when running. People are used to this sound. Animals too.

    Jaguar has decided to go with a "weird kind of spaceship sound," while BMW has gone with something that sounds more like a traditional engine. Nissan "seems to have gone for a bit of a jet airliner feel," writes Loz Blain for New Atlas.

    So different cars will make different sounds... that can't be good. If people don't know, they could be scared of the Nissan because for a fraction of a second t

    • The only thing dumber than mandating a noise would be mandating a specific noise, and the only thing dumber than that would be having that noise mimic an ICE. How about we just teach people to stay out of the street? When I was a child, I was scared smart by that commercial with the steamroller. I never had a street-playing habit. I had a kid run out in front of my car once. Parked, took the tot by the hand, and had him walk me to his front door where I found that his father appeared to be a stereotypical t

  • Carmakers could make it so that customers can load their own sounds (and auto-adjust the volume to meet minimum legal levels, of course).

    I expect the law will be repealed quickly enough, and replaced with a "electric cars need to shut the fuck up" regulation.

  • I'd suggest "Hail to the Queen" personally.

  • The proposal is much better than I'd feared initially, it at least allows manufacturers to choose much better sounds than the incredibly irritating BEEP BEEP BEEP now used on reversing vehicles.
    The mandated audio levels also seem sane - 56 dB is about as much as a current petrol car at those speeds.

  • Anyone remember the dominoes electric scooter sounds? https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • Omg its going to be ring tones all over again.

  • If I could pick the noise my car makes, it'd play some annoying earworm song all the time. It's the best way to get this law repealed quickly.

  • I want my EV to sound like George Jetson's flying car.

  • Jetsons car
    Knight Rider car
    Blade Runner "Move on, Move on"

  • In Brighton (UK) I sometimes join the liberated throngs (nice experience, yes really) But if you step off the kerb to get past the exuberant crowd, you can be rear-ended and totalled by a double-decker bus whose Diesel engine is so-quietly in the back. General problem. Fixit.

  • 'Standards' (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GerryHattrick ( 1037764 ) on Saturday June 08, 2019 @09:21AM (#58730468)
    This is what ISO Standards are FOR. Do not allow the artificial noises to advertise brands; require that the uniform warning noise should be proportional to speed and distance-to-stop. No seriously, I'm out of ISO now, but can someone who is engaged please cover?

  • With AVAS, vehicles would make a continuous noise of at least 56 decibels if the car's going 20 km/h (12 mph) or slower. New Atlas reports:

    A decibel is not a measure of loudness, but a measure of sound pressure. 56dB at what distance? They should have used sones, not dB. Nonetheless, auto-decibel-db [auto-decibel-db.com] rates the 2013 Lexus LS at 35.4dB at idle, and only 47.5dB at 55 MPH. The 2019 S-Class is supposed to be way the hell quieter than that, too. So they're literally requiring EVs to be louder than ICE-based vehicles!

  • I live on a residential street less than 2K from the Tesla factory. The density of Tesla cars on the road is probably higher here than anywhere else in the world.

    When I am in my front yard I can always hear the Tesla cars coming the same as any other car. The tires make enough noise.

    UPDATE: AS I TYPED THE PRECEDING SENTENCE a Model X just went by my window, which is closed. I could hear it just fine.

    I just don't get why we are doing this.

  • I try to avoid busy streets with constant traffic, but when I am on residential streets the sounds of vehicles are a big part of situational awareness. I don't wear earphones for exactly that reason (I find the idea horrifying actually, though I am quite aware there are deaf cyclists out there who manage fine), and yes I try to keep a 360 degree visual picture as well, but I have indeed been surprised by electric cars where I see them before I hear them, which is the opposite of how it usually works.

    If all

  • Look, there will obviously develop a cacophony of different sounds that will absolutely drive people crazy. People now can ignore traffic sounds to some degree if they so choose because they fall into what I would call a "vehicle range" of sounds. We learned those sounds and we know those sounds. But with no kind of general range of sounds set there can be ANYTHING making noise in our environment and for any reason. It will be maddening. And companies will be able to change the sounds depending on model or

  • I just want mine to make the Cylon sound...

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n17B_uFF4cA

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