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Transportation

The Flying Saddle: Would You Give It a Try? (sfgate.com) 194

Posted by EditorDavid from the saddle-seats dept.
schwit1 quotes SFGate: Airlines are squeezing as many passengers as they can onto their jets, but one seat manufacturer believes its product can help carriers push capacity to the absolute limit. And it may help push down fares.

Say goodbye to whatever personal space you had left.

At this week's Paris Air Show, lots of curious convention-goers eagerly wanted to try out Avio Interior's "SkyRider" saddle-like airplane seat, but that's probably not the reception it would get if people found it installed on their next flight.

SkyRider passengers would lean on a bicycle-seat type cushion that sits higher than your traditional airline seat. Legs sort of hang off the saddle, as they would if you were riding a horse. The seat back sits straight up, forcing good posture. A knee cut-out provides another precious few inches of legroom.

You're neither sitting nor standing — you're sort of leaning.
Airplanes can install the seats in part of their planes as an alternative to more expensive seating options, the article points out. But it also notes that the company "is still looking for its first buyer...and has been for nearly 10 years."
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The Flying Saddle: Would You Give It a Try? More

The Flying Saddle: Would You Give It a Try?

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  • and stack them horizontally. that would be the best use of space.

    • I think I would prefer this to sitting on a bicycle seat for 4 hours. My testicles ache just looking at that thing.

    • No need to tranquilize, that's too expensive.

    • Re:just tranquilize the passengers (Score:4, Interesting)

      by im_thatoneguy ( 819432 ) on Sunday June 23, 2019 @07:00PM (#58811068)

      Honestly, I would pay extra for a lay-flat seat combined with a saddle. Give me a small 3 high bunk bed instead of a row of seats. I'll lay on my side and watch movies before falling asleep on long haul 15-hour flights.

      I just need a place to eat and if that's a semi-standing bar to eat at, I'll happily do that for the opportunity to lay down and get some real sleep on really long overnight flights.

      The challenge is the plane would be very red-eye heavy and what do you do for the 12 hour 6am -> 6pm flight?

      • >and what do you do for the 12 hour 6am -> 6pm flight?
        Drugs.
        Airline supplied, or bring your own. Whatever it takes to help you lay there and watch TV, sleep, or otherwise pass the time. Even if you're wide awake and sober the whole time it can't be any more uncomfortable than those horrible ergonomic* chairs. (*if you happen to exactly match average body dimensions, otherwise they're torture implements)

        Probably do good things for jet lag too - if you're on a twelve hour flight odds are your internal

    • That idea is so 2009, oh wait, that's 10 years ago, as is this horrible seat idea (I bet they were reading the Onion at the time):

      https://www.theonion.com/unite... [theonion.com]

  • Reminds Me of "Sleep on a Clothesline" (Score:4, Insightful)

    by crunchy_one ( 1047426 ) on Sunday June 23, 2019 @11:44AM (#58809030)
    As described by George Orwell:

    At the Twopenny Hangover, the lodgers sit in a row on a bench; there is a rope in front of them, and they lean on this as though leaning over a fence. A man, humorously called the valet, cuts the rope at five in the morning. I have never been there myself, but Bozo had been there often. I asked him whether anyone could possibly sleep in such an attitude, and he said that it was more comfortable than it sounded - at any rate, better than bare floor. There are similar shelters in Paris, but the charge there is only twenty-five centimes (a halfpenny) instead of twopence.

  • Not April fool's (Score:3)

    by HalAtWork ( 926717 ) on Sunday June 23, 2019 @11:44AM (#58809036)

    But you have to be joking with that utter nonsense. No. Not even for an hour flight.

    • The absurdist comedy that is “modern” US air travel has already made me switch to driving to any destination where it’s physically possible. So I wouldn’t mind seeing these get deployed on intra-national flights - it’s be good for a laugh, but it might even cause a large-scale revolt.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        Fuck that. This bullshit is why I don't fly commercial at all. Being treated like cattle, long waits while I expect some TSA thug to stick his thumb up my ass, then crammed in some seat 2 sizes to small but bubba and fat chick sitting my lap.

        I'll drive or take a train. It will take longer but I can get my own private cabin and you can't beat the view. If I really need to get some where in a hurry I'll see if I can get hooked up with a private plane going in that direction and hitch a ride.

      • The absurdist comedy that is “modern” US air travel has already made me switch to driving to any destination where it’s physically possible. .

        I did exactly that as well. I used to fly the short jump between O'Hare (connecting flight) and Grand Rapids but now I prefer the 3 hour drive.

        • By the time you deal with the trip to airport, parking getting to the terminal, check-in line (or self-service check-in kiosk line) TSA bullshit, boarding line, line to actually sit down in the plane with all the other passengers, the flight itslef, off-boarding lines and waits, etc, I think the three hour drive is quicker ultimately.....

          • I used to do the same for the LA to Vegas run, then I discovered a very cool airline making short haul hops in small jets:JetsuiteX
            By far the best flying experience I've had in years.
            Arrive 30 minutes early, fly, leave immediately.
            No TSA, no baggage claim, no absurd lines at the airport.

    • Too good to stand? Major cities around the world are full of people who have no problem standing for an hour long commute. If it would halve the price of my ticket for the 45min flight I'm taking tomorrow I'd be all for it. It would still be better than going to work in the morning.

  • Historically, there is a direct correlation between air fare going up while seat space reduces. Air fare has never lowered. So don't get your hopes up that it will, because it won't.

    • Air fare has never lowered.

      That's just ignorance. Look up some numbers.

  • I think I'd be getting a boot and wheelchair.

  • The SkyRider seat has been around for nearly a decade and has undergone several improvements.

    Call me an optimist but if they haven't indulged the nightmare seat for a decade, I don't think airlines are all going jump on this idea at once.

    • Clearly it needs another decade or two of improvement. One improvement I would suggest would be scrapping the whole thing, because it's a terrible idea. People will only pay to be tortured so much, unless they are into BDSM, but that's kind of a different torture and not really acceptable on commercial aircraft.

      There are different rules for private aircraft though - maybe these could be equipped in someone's G6 next to the ball gag cabinet.

      • There are different rules for private aircraft though - maybe these could be equipped in someone's G6 next to the ball gag cabinet.

        NXIVM Airlines, you'll sit where you're told. (Some trips may take as long as nine years)

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • I agree. I'm 190cm tall, and I just took a flight a few days ago. The cushion on my seat was worn out, so by the end of the 4 hour flight, I was really uncomfortable. I don't imagine that these seats would be usable for that long, but I would certainly consider them for short flights. I just need to try them out first, but problems like DVT for people with long legs and low heart rates would go away with a setup like this.

          If it's better, it's better. Something needs to change about airline seating. Iâ(

    • They won't. The single aisle airliners built for low cost airlines already have additional overwing emergency exit doors because of the amount of seats they have. Any more seats would force them to be upgraded to full doors, with much more weight and an empty row. Not worth it. It would also require a lot more oxygen masks and generators, swim wests and some kind of storage and all the added baggage would result in less cargo slace and weight left.

      • There isn't an airline out there that could pass a safety test if done with their current seating conditions, what makes you think they wouldn't get away with this too?

        • If the aircraft cannot pass the safety test, it won't get its type certificate so yes, they can.

          • It can pass the safety tests. Mostly because the safety tests were altered until they could pass it again.

            Mostly because safety tests are bullshit. Then the plane is only about half full (which by itself is laughable, especially on the larger planes which are by definition overbooked and packed to the brim). Children are represented by dolls that don't even weigh anything near the weight of children. And then the biggest problem: Safety tests are done by people who know that there is no emergency.

            Here [youtube.com] is a

            • That's kind of not my point. It is obvious that a real emergency evacuation will take longer than 90 seconds, but some kind of standartisation for the type rating tests is required and nobody would volunteer for tests that guarantee to result in an injury.

              My point is, it will be impossible to pass the standard 90 seconds test as it is done right now to earn the type rating with these saddle seats and the current amount and type of exits hence the airlines won't be able to use them without redesigning the ai

              • And my point is that it doesn't matter whether you pass the current tests because in a real emergency you're fucked either way.

  • Fuck it (Score:4, Insightful)

    by The Grim Reefer ( 1162755 ) on Sunday June 23, 2019 @11:52AM (#58809084)

    Why don't the airlines just put all passengers into a medically induced coma. That way they can just stack people in every part of the plane. This should allow them to fit double the number of passengers. It will also get rid of those pesky bathrooms, eliminate the need for a flight attendant, and any kind of drink or food service. It also helps with terrorists. So we can eliminate the TSA. They should also turn all planes into drones. This will save weight, and one pilot to control three or four planes and eliminate the need to get them hotel rooms.

    The airlines already treat their "customers" like cattle, why not eliminate any doubt about it.

    /s

    • I wouldn't mind since I find it almost impossible to fall asleep on a plane. It'd be a lot easier if it were medically induced.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The problem is that there is no safe way to anaesthetise or place someone in a medically induced coma. When they do it at a hospital they have trained doctors/nurses doing the work with monitoring equipment and a plan for when things go wrong, as they occasionally do.

      For longer flights there would need to be provision for preventing blood clots forming and for bathroom needs too.

  • 11 Years and No Buyer (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ronin Developer ( 67677 ) on Sunday June 23, 2019 @11:55AM (#58809102)

    How is this company even still in business?

    And, I am surprised that one airline in Ireland (the one that advocated standing and no seats for the economy section) hasn't jumped on this.

    Me? I would be inclined to NOT fly ANY airline that implements this in any form and would rather drive, take a train, book a slow boat, or just stay home watch Private Islands than endure this.

    To me, it's reminiscent of Mad Magazine's "No Frills" airlines of the 70's. The overhead bin with air holes would be more enjoyable.

  • steerage in air travel.

  • Is it just me, or does this look like it would be a nightmare to get out of in the case of an emergency?

    The picture makes it look like the rows are quite close together. I have trouble enough now getting out of my seat: if the plane was on fire, wouldn't this setup sort of encourage panic?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bunyip ( 17018 )

      It's worth taking a look at the Federal Aviation Regulations, such as FAR 25.807. I did some consulting work with LTU in Duesseldorf about 20 years ago, and remember someone telling me that they initially setup a 767 with tight economy seats front to back - but had to reduce the number of seats after testing the time to exit. Apparently they tried it with an airplane full of airline employees, but couldn't get out in time and still had people with broken arms and other injuries.

      So, this seating is like a "

  • Hell No! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by technical_maven ( 2756487 ) <tom&tgt,org> on Sunday June 23, 2019 @12:04PM (#58809166)
    Not a chance!

  • Hell No!, but seriously, this is just here to remind you that no matter how horrific air travel is today, it can still get worse.

  • That's going to fly well with long-haul flights. Pun intended.

  • The solution to this is simple, just make a bunch of horizontal bunk beds instead, problem solved.

  • Shouldn't they try to sell these to buses or subway car manufacturers first? That is, transportation vehicles in which people already stand.

  • I have given it a try in the form of stand-up roller coasters (specifically Riddler's Revenge at Six Flags Magic Mountain) and while it was novel when new I don't really go for it much any more. There are better ways to ride that mostly involve sitting down.

    So it is an acceptable way to go through a five minute thrill ride but for any sort of airline flight? No, hell no, boycott forever the first airline to try it no. If I want to get saddle-sores while traveling I will go learn how to ride an actual hor

  • Silly Ergonomics (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Mr_Blank ( 172031 ) on Sunday June 23, 2019 @01:10PM (#58809456) Journal

    There is no way I would stand for the vertical seats in TFA. Humans are not comfortable to rest in a vertical position.

    It seems to me that the better solution for packing the most humans into the least space would be a horizontal arrangement. The sailor's bunks on a warship might be a good model. The bunks might need strategic padding here and there to account for bodies thrown around by turbulence. There would also need to be accommodation for bodies of various sizes, mobility impaired people who could not get down or up to bunks, and to account for babies in the arms or bellies of parents.

    I hate to give any company ideas that could be twisted into the worst possible form. If maximum occupancy is the goal then recall how how humans were brought to the shores of America in slave ships [wikimedia.org].

  • Airline-speak for more profits.

  • One flight for 2 hours (SFO->DEN) I actually stood in the back galley for most of the flight. That is supposed to be against the rules but the cabin crew didn't hassle me about it. The reason is it was a 100% full flight and the gate put me in a center seat between two 250+ pound guys. The amount of seat available to me from the left/right overflow was about 50% of what I supposedly paid for. I could only "sit" there being sort of sideways.

    Anyway these saddle seats don't look all that uncomforta

  • I pretty much assumed--after my last omg-when-will-this-end? bout with air travel--that some a**hole in the airline industry would look for a way to make airline flights even less enjoyable. I predicted that having passengers stand up in order to pack more fares onto each flight was the only way. (Except I was effin' joking though, when I mentioned that to friends.)

    Brings new meaning to the old term "flying stand by", doesn't it?

  • Airlines are in a race to the bottom to offer lowest fare, because ticket aggregators ensure that consumers always buy cheapest. So yes, you will ride these saddles soon, because that will let airlines offer 50$ cheaper fare and everyone buys cheapest tickets.
  • With a cattle-prod like animals. And about as popular.

    But this insanity isn't new, I've seen this stinker of an idea appear now and then when there's a slow news day. No buyers so far, which tells me airlines keep a modicum of common sense.

  • It drops the space from 31 to 23 so only about a 25% drop in space so presumably you could only give a 25% discount to the passengers.
    I'm assuming an airline would go broke if they only sold economy seats and that they depend on "premium" seats to turn a profit.
    But you now have completely eliminated the ability to sell different seats for different prices.

  • Not just no, but FUCK NO (Score:3)

    by morethanapapercert ( 749527 ) on Sunday June 23, 2019 @04:30PM (#58810508) Homepage
    As I have commented on other sites whenever this ridiculous notion ever comes up, I loathe the very idea of it. Something like this will serve for a roller coaster or other amusement where you're in it for 10 mins tops. But even fully able bodied people are going to be intensely uncomfortable being held essentially motionless from the waist down for over an hour.

    There are people who can be comfortable in a saddle on a horse or motorcycle for an entire day. But those are generally able bodied people who worked up to it over the course of their career. And doing so creates quite noticeable changes in their pelvis and femurs. (it's why cowboys used to notoriously bow-legged) I would argue that any posture that is so unnaturally that it forces your skeleton to adapt is a posture to be avoided. (I make the same argument about the recent news that young folk are developing a bone spur at the bottom of their brain case because of hours looking at mobile devices with their chin down)

    Others have pointed out the hurdles of cost of switching over, getting FAA approval, doing time and motion studies to prove that evacuation can still be done in a reasonable time. (I would be very sceptical of any study that claimed people could get out of this contraption in a hurry)

    I will just point out that people with mobility issues already face a lot of discomfort, indignity and even pain in getting transferred to the now-standard "economy seating" The way it is done is that they have to be transferred twice. Once onto a narrow aisle "porters chair" or worse a sling and hoist arrangement and then again into the seat. You reverse the process at the other end. Standard procedure right now is to load such passengers first and unload them last. Which means us cripples are forced to stay in already uncomfortable seats for up to an hour longer than the rest of the passengers. The last flight I took, I was so crippled up afterwards that I would have happily traded that 3 hour flight for a 3 day road trip.

    Frankly, even the unsubstantiated rumour that a carrier had these deployed on even a small number of flights would be enough to make me boycott them entirely. Because even a trial deployment means they see enough financial incentive to ignore so many valid objections. And it's a camels nose in the tent situation. If we let one carrier get away with even a trial of this seating system, they almost certainly will expand its scope and all the other carriers will be forced to follow suit to remain competitive.

    And if I walked onto the plane and saw those waiting for me, I'd be more than able to resist the social pressure to conform, not interfere with other peoples boarding and just take my perch. I would say, rather loudly and firmly "FUCK NO" and demand to be let off the plane immediately.

  • NO NO NO (Score:3)

    by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Sunday June 23, 2019 @05:05PM (#58810648) Journal

    Not just "no", but "HELL NO!"

    No one wants to sit on these cattle-car-inspired pieces of shit.

    Let the executives from Avio Interior use them for a year and then maybe, MAYBE I'll look at it and not scream "HELL NO!"

  • Can you imagine what would happen on a flight with any significant turbulence? I can, and I don't think anyone would enjoy it.

    Another terrible idea from the Bean-Counters Collective, always looking to make a few more pennies regardless of the discomfort it may cause. After all, they'll be flying First Class, unlike the Poors and the Commoners.

  • flying crotch crusher.

  • BUT, that being said, why not just make em all fly naked, pack em in like they did during the WW2 concentration camp era and be done with it. STUPID airlines! Pack em in like sardines! Yeah, fly on a saddle over the ocean, see how that works. Between having to show up hours before your flight, being groped by the TSA, charging outrageous fees for baggage not to mention what they charge for water and snacks, FORGET IT!

  • Take a board of directors of an airline and make them use the seat for a transatlantic flight, then move them out for a full day of work. If they still think it's a great idea, we can talk about it.

  • Just when I thought the combo of airlines and the fucking government couldn't air travel any worse and/or more demeaning, they come up with this stupid shit....

  • I can only see this idea working out in something like a short-hop format.
    Things like an airborne bus ride.
    Anything longer than that, and you'll have people getting really stressed out (even more than usual) and then there would be trouble.

    Another example of "canned humanity".

    Can the income gap become any more obvious?

  • I really don't mind sitting in this shape of seat. After 10s of thousands of miles on a bicycle saddle, I'm pretty familiar with how my sit-bones need to connect with the saddle to prevent any tingling in extremities.

    That said, this looks like horrible ergonomics from a bicyclist perspective. The softer the saddle, the more you're supposed to sit on your haunches so as not to compress the blood vessels at the inside of your hips (think beach cruiser). This is nearly vertical seating (think hybrid or city cr

  • You know, if the plane would do constant loop de loops , there would be no gravity and we wouldn't care about our seats: we'd just float our way along.

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