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Transportation Security News

Atlanta Pauses Scooter Permits After Deaths (nbcnews.com) 143

Posted by msmash from the cautious-moves dept.
Atlanta's mayor put a pause on the city's issuance of permits for smartphone-based electric scooter rentals Thursday following two recent deaths. From a report: The city had come under pressure from activists in recent days who had protested on Atlanta's streets after a man riding a scooter was run over by a city transit bus. The executive order from Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms stops short of removing scooters from the city's streets.

"Across the nation, municipalities are dealing with the sudden and unforeseen impact these devices have had on our communities," Bottoms said in a press release. "While some municipalities have banned the devices altogether, the City of Atlanta acted in good faith to work with the private sector to explore innovative solutions to ease existing commuting strains," said Bottoms. "However, as Atlanta has seen two scooter related deaths, this complex issue requires a more thorough and robust dialogue."
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Atlanta Pauses Scooter Permits After Deaths More

Atlanta Pauses Scooter Permits After Deaths

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  • cars (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I think they should ban the busses and cars too. People die from those as well. Even walking. Should all be banned - think of the children!

  • The scooter concept just needs a little tweaking (Score:5, Funny)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:08PM (#58986176)

    For simple protection, perhaps they could add some sort of protective metal exoskeleton around the rider. For more serious situations, a restraint system of some sort might be beneficial... maybe even add some passive cushioning devices which deploy when an impact is sensed.

    Also, sometimes it seems like needing to make sudden stops is a problem with the current design, since it relies completely on the users' feet. The manufacturers might consider including a mechanical stopping system of some kind.

    Additionally - to make it more comfortable for the riders, they could consider adding a seat. Maybe even additional seats to accommodate groups who are traveling together.

    • You are describing a golf cart.

      My neighbor has a combination of:
      1. Lots of pedestrians (it's an old walkable neighborhood)
      2. Lot of bad drivers (what's a stop sign?)
      3. Lots of bicycles (some motorized)
      4. Lots electric scooters
      5. Lots of golf carts

      And all but #1 use the street.

      6. And lots of bars

      I'm surprised it's not a bloodbath to be honest.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I'm curious about your neighbor. It seems to me that having pedestrians would be illegal. I guess maybe it's voluntary? And I guess he must be rather rich to have a lot of drivers, golf carts and bars. Though I do wonder what's the point of having a driver if they're bad at it. Maybe he should get some different ones?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

        You are describing a golf cart.

        My neighbor has a combination of:
        1. Lots of pedestrians (it's an old walkable neighborhood) .....And all but #1 use the street.

        In the neighborhood I grew up in the kids on bicycles, kids walking to a friend's house, and the loose dogs all used the sidewalks. The only ones out in the street were the women with strollers walking 3 abreast and the old people. You know, the ones who should know better.

    • Why not just let the scooter drive itself?

    • You just described a 93 Escort Wagon. Completely impractical for driving down the sidewalk.

      • You just described a 93 Escort Wagon. Completely impractical for driving down the sidewalk.

        There you go again, jumping to conclusions without even bothering to test the hypothesis.

  • Right hook (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ichijo ( 607641 ) on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:13PM (#58986198) Journal

    Atlanta police said a CobbLinc bus collided with Brad Alexander, 37, who was riding on a scooter. The bus was turning [right] onto 15th Street and hit Alexander.

    This type of collision is known as the "right hook [bicyclesafe.com]". It's particularly common between a narrow vehicle like a bike, and a longer vehicle that can't make a right turn from as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway [justia.com] as required by law.

    • Re:Right hook (Score:5, Informative)

      by PPH ( 736903 ) on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:45PM (#58986400)

      can't make a right turn from as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway

      Yes they can. It's just that 'as close as practicable' for a bus (or truck) is a long ways. And people (including car drivers) that try to sneak by on the right are going to get hit. This is why proper lane discipline for ALL vehicles must be practiced. Which means no passing on the right. Even if a bus or truck swings left and leaves you 90% of the lane.

      • Usually it is not the motor vehicle passed by the right by the slower bike, it is the motor vehicle passing by the left, THEN turned right inconsiderately. Source : my local emergency service told me shortly after they had to scoop me up the street after a TOTAL JERK IMBECILE FUCK YOU MAN driver passed by my left then immediately turned right colliding me, leaving me bloody then speeding away like there is no tomorrow. That is why biker usually intentionally go 1 to 2 foot toward the middle, not completely

    • a longer vehicle that can't make a right turn from as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway as required by law

      If the longer vehicle can't make a right turn at a given distance from the curb, it's by definition not practicable for it to do so.

    • Atlanta police said a CobbLinc bus collided with Brad Alexander, 37, who was riding on a scooter. The bus was turning [right] onto 15th Street and hit Alexander.

      This type of collision is known as the "right hook [bicyclesafe.com]". It's particularly common between a narrow vehicle like a bike, and a longer vehicle that can't make a right turn from as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway [justia.com] as required by law.

      This is one thing that makes me a little paranoid with biking lanes to the right and I have to turn right, even in a short vehicle.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ichijo ( 607641 )

        Signal and merge into the bike lane before turning right. (Except in Portland where that's illegal for some reason.)

    • Re:Right hook (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kevmeister ( 979231 ) on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:24PM (#58987322) Homepage

      At least in California it i mandated that vehicles turning right when there is a bike lane on the right MUST merge into the bike lane before turning to prevent this type of accident. Unfortunately, most vehicles simply ignore this (or are unaware) and the closest I have ever come to being hit by a car or truck was an unsignalled right combined with a typical non-stop when turning right at a stop sign.That was three ticketable offenses that I see all the time and have never seen ticketed even though I have seen police cars stopped a few feet away.

      And, yes, I do see many bicyclists do really, really stupid things that are just asking for a collision. It's often NOT the car/truck's fault.

  • People are ridiculously bad at navigating traffic with bicycles too, especially the first month of every day riding. Scooters use electricity and are more comfortable but require the same navigation principles as a bicycle, mostly. I'm sure if everyone had to start using bicycles tomorrow the same gaps in navigation/safety would come to light.

    I don't think the scooters are inherently dangerous, it's just that it takes time to adjust to how navigation works and realize you're not in a car anymore.

    • Scooter rentals work out on a resort island, not in a busy city.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Misagon ( 1135 )

      I live in a European city where most people know how to ride a bicycle. But electric scooter riders are a big problem here, just as they are in cities where neither bikes nor scooters used to be common.

      I think that scooters are inherently less safe than bicycles, and I don't believe that information and training would be able to counter that completely.
      Because users don't pedal and the scooters don't have a speed gauge (at a relative height to eye level, anyway), scooter riders don't have as much of a feel

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Scooters are bad because of very small wheel diameter, extraordinarily bad centre of gravity, all creating really bad turning and braking characteristics, basically no safe at any speeds and only to be used for limited recreation. Pretty much every emergency manoeuvre on a scooter involves falling off and down and often running someone down.

  • Electric scooters and bikes should be banned until they have collision preventing sensors. There's no reason you should be passing humans at more than 1-2 mph faster than they are traveling. This article is garbage, because it doesn't address the real concerns of people protesting electric scooters. They're a hazard to pedestrians, effectively taking away designated walkways AGAIN, as cars had previously. (Look up the origin of the term jay walking.)

    • In my experience, bicycles are mostly prohibited on sidewalks, and have to share the road. Out here in California we are obligated to yield the lane to cyclists when we cannot give them three feet of berth, even on highways, though they are required to yield it back at the first safe opportunity, if five vehicles are following. In practice, people generally just pass them anywhere there is visibility. In theory they're supposed to have a continuous trail all up and down the coast relatively soon, which woul

      • The same three-foot rule exists where I live, but the cyclists are under no obligation to give back the three feet at all. In fact, if you are operating a car and a cyclist on their own closes the distance to less than three feet, the car operator has to yield. The cyclist can keep closing that distance until the car can't yield any more space in which case it is forced to stop where it is until the cyclist moves away. We are absolutely not allowed to cross a double yellow to go around even if there is n

        • The same three-foot rule exists where I live, but the cyclists are under no obligation to give back the three feet at all.

          Just to be clear, here in California they're only obligated explicitly to give it back at the same time as anyone else, which is to say, when five people are stacked up behind them on a highway. But nobody is obligated to operate a vehicle of any kind on a public road in a way that unduly impedes the flow of traffic, so there's lots of arguing room.

  • Training (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    How about "Swipe your scooter license to drive"?

  • Require a License! (Score:3)

    by Zorro ( 15797 ) on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:20PM (#58986238)

    Also require a written test and insurance. Just like a car. Need to pay taxes on that scooter too.

  • and let the problem resolve itself.

    I can't wait until shoes will require certification and licensing by the various cities.

    When will we learn that the stupid cannot be stopped?

    Looks like these morons were destined to kill themselves, it just so happened that scooters were it!

  • In a few years, the rich people providing money for these ventures will stop being willing to dump large amounts of cash into them and, instead, start expecting a financial return. Once these scooter and bike rental companies have to start charging what it actually costs to run the business, it's likely they'll die off pretty quickly.

  • "Across the nation, municipalities are dealing with the sudden and unforeseen impact these devices have had on our communities"

    We've had fucking scooters, foot, gas, and battery-powered for like 8 plus goddamned decades. The scooters aren't the problem, it's the irresponsible people that can't put them in a proper spot when not in use, and the reckless people that can't pay fucking attention, that are the problem.

  • God love this world that we have now. People die crossing street using shoes every day. Do we ban shoes? They die by a wave crashing down on them and breaking their necks. Do we ban going to the ocean? People die walking with metal straws. Do we ban straws? Maybe we should ban the bus that hit them. Maybe we should just ban everything so everyone is 100% safe from living life.
  • But scooters those are dangerous.
  • Scooters, bicycles, and motorcycles are the future. Due to numerous factors, including the insane prices of cars, it makes little sense to own a car if one can get by in other ways. On top of all the problems in the auto industry, there are also huge problems with parking and storage of cars. Cars get stolen and vandalized. That means you need safe parking areas and in many places that is expensive. In some cities, people pay $500 a month to use the basement parking in their apartment buildings. At so

  • First pedestrians complain and the city passes ordinances forcing the scooters to use the roads instead of sidewalks.

    And then the scooters DO that and whoa two of them are run over and the operators are killed by cars.

    WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY THINK would happen when you force slow scooter to share the road with much larger, faster, heavier cars, driven by people who don't want to share the road with other cars much less share with scooters or pedestrians or cyclists?

    There should NEVER be a place where cars an

    • That would require investment in bicycle paths, more extensive public transit to reduce the number of vehicles on the road, etc. US citizens won't even invest sufficient sums for public transit as is, they're not going to spend for a citywide cycling route.
  • Mayor Lance Bottoms or skateboarder Lance Mountain?
  • What everybody needs is a go go gadget helicopter hat

  • These dangerous electric scooters are not a problem in the UK - because they're not allowed on public roads or on public pavements.
    It's a simple solution that avoids all these deaths, injuries, and risk to everyone.

    Electric scooter riders lack lights at driver-viewing level, lack safety gear, lack intrinsic stability in their vehicle, lack good braking ability (can't hang on while you brake sharply). They also cross from pavement to road unpredictably and frequently, making avoidance harder for cyclists and

  • Recently some guys were telling me about how bad it is with the scooter apps in Texas. Apparently there's a gigantic number of scooters, and the people that are supposed to go charge, fix, etc the scooters just don't do it to enough scooters. So there's always a ton of uncharged broken scooters sitting around. In some cases, people get super pissed off and the scooter graveyard littering the area and will throw them off bridges, into water, etc. Apparently one of them saw a fountain just filled with the

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