Uber Lays Off 400 People On Its Marketing Team 117
Uber confirmed Monday that around 400 of the roughly 1,200 people in its marketing unit are being let go as part of a broader restructuring of the department. CNN reports: In an email sent by Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi to staff and seen by CNN Business, he says, "we are not making these changes because Marketing has become less important to Uber. The exact opposite is true: we are making these changes because presenting a powerful, unified, and dynamic vision to the world has never been more important." The news, first reported by the New York Times, comes as the company faces pressure to clean up its finances following a lackluster Wall Street debut in May. Uber has a history of steep loses and its revenue growth is slowing.
Uber lost $1.01 billion in the first three months of this year, according to the company's first earnings report as a public company. Revenue from its core ridesharing business grew just 9% from the year prior. The company is set to report its second quarter earnings results next week. The layoffs are just the latest turbulence inside Uber in the less than three months since it went public.
Uber lost $1.01 billion in the first three months of this year, according to the company's first earnings report as a public company. Revenue from its core ridesharing business grew just 9% from the year prior. The company is set to report its second quarter earnings results next week. The layoffs are just the latest turbulence inside Uber in the less than three months since it went public.
Sacrificial Lambs (Score:5, Interesting)
When the bad news comes out next week, everything will be blamed on those just fired. IMO what they need most is to improve their image, which is going to take some serious effort. Beyond that, the big question is if they can get any of their autonomous driving fleets running before they run out of cash or someone else beats them to the punch.
Re: (Score:2)
When the bad news comes out next week, everything will be blamed on those just fired. IMO what they need most is to improve their image, which is going to take some serious effort.
Those just fired were all in marketing. They should already know how to improve their image.
Re: (Score:2)
They should already know how to improve their image.
According to Bill Hicks and Douglas Adams, they should be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
When the bad news comes out next week, everything will be blamed on those just fired. IMO what they need most is to improve their image, which is going to take some serious effort. Beyond that, the big question is if they can get any of their autonomous driving fleets running before they run out of cash or someone else beats them to the punch.
My son drives for uber as a special service for the disabled. Uber takes 1/3rd of the fare. Before doing the transition to special care transportation, he was a regular driver. Yes, Uber took 1/3 of the take, and on a 10 dollar ride, only $6.60 was left. Given the gap between rides, a hustler driver doing 12 hour shifts can make a living. 12 hour shifts 6 days will yield around 45k/yr after car expenses.
Re:and nothing of value was lost... (Score:4, Interesting)
Over the decades I have learned to respect the value of a Good Sales and Marketing Team in your workplace.
For almost every Organization Corporate, Not For Profit, and even Government. All the work that you do for the organization is meaningless if there are no people using your services that your org provides. If no one uses the companies products and services, then your job isn't needed and you will be no longer working there.
If I am working on a customer facing product, I actually prefer to bring in the Sales and Marketing team early on to get their honest feedback, and see how they would be selling the product. Because that way we stop the problem of the product being sold with features that were never built. In cases where it seems that Marketing is selling a lie of a product, it is often due to miscommunication between the sales team and development, and it is from a telephone game of explaining features and ability.
Re:and nothing of value was lost... (Score:5, Insightful)
But scams like Uber and Yelp still make them feel like victims.
Re: (Score:2)
Techies like to shit on sales & marketing because they can be seem useless, stupid and incompetent. And sometimes they are... just like any other area in an organization can be. But you absolutely need them to bring in the cash, otherwise everyone would be more than happy to cut a ton of headcount.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
All the work that you do for the organization is meaningless if there are no people using your services that your org provides.
The best marketing is word of mouth and accounts for the vast majority of a product and/or companies reputation and sales. Marketing people contribute very little in the grand scheme of things and their very presence can negatively impact the out come of a sale, so loathed are sales people in virtually any industry.
The best sales people are rarely more than networking people, getting the real workers on the phone with customers and facilitating questions/answers. Nothing makes me say no faster to a vendor t
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
That's fair. Same can be said for any profession, always diamonds in the rough. I should do a better job not stereotyping them all.
Re: (Score:2)
Same can be said for any profession
Not necessarily to the same degree.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The best marketing is word of mouth
Which is why no one markets via other methods as that's the only good one.
I never expected to be defending marketing.
Yay! disruptive technology. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Now CEOs get nicer things and everyone else lives in fear of lay-offs
People who do not provide more value to the company than they cost, should live in fear of lay-offs.
Pro-tip: If you don't know what your value to the company is, or can't express it in $$$, you should definitely worry about being layed off.
What value does Dara Khosrowshahi bring to the company? How does he contribute to Uber's profits? Oh, that's right, Uber has never made a penny in profit and has lost billions. Good job.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
traditionally well-paying jobs like taxi driver
That's your idea of a "traditionally well-paying job??"
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Yay! disruptive technology. (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't believe that college grads are the only ones who deserve homes and families.
Re: (Score:2)
Given that taxi driver salaries collapsed the moment competition arrived, they were overpaid previously.
This is a slightly more complex equation than you're aware of - as evidenced by your conclusion; you haven't included the roles of the respective 'middle men' in the two situations you're attempting to compare.
Re: (Score:3)
Believe it or not, 20 years ago a taxi driver could afford a home and support a family.
Generally only by being willing to commute long distances: the passengers and the viable fares are found in big, [wealthy] cities; affordable living costs are not. This very much held true in the 90's except for possible outliers like the Dallas area; you'll have to go back quite a bit farther to be correct.
Re: (Score:2)
You should be careful if you can express your value to the company with a fixed number. First you often will shortchange yourself, or over inflate yourself. Then your bosses may look at that value, compare it to your salary and benefits, and may determine that someone else may give a higher ratio of profit vs cost. Even if they bring in less total profit.
Re: (Score:2)
Then your bosses may look at that value, compare it to your salary and benefits, and may determine that someone else may give a higher ratio of profit vs cost.
Working for a business that's managed like that... sounds like a self-correcting problem.
Re: (Score:2)
How about giving Obama credit for increasing the number of H1B workers over and over again for eight years. Lets also give fake news credit for calling these people highly skilled immigrants. If the American people knew these people were really temp workers and their Indian degrees were equivalent to a two year degree from a community college... well, then orange man wouldn't seem so bad after all.
Heil Hitlary Clinton!
Fake news eh? Do you have a citation for your claim that Obama increased H1B visas? According to this site [redbus2us.com], the visa cap was much higher from 1999-2004 and then was re-lowered in 2004:
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There have been many really good products that suffered by poor and inadequate marketing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
do you need FOUR HUNDRED people to market something like UBER? What the unholy fuck?
No, you obviously need EIGHT HUNDRED, since that's how many they have after the layoff.
Uber is a scam company with a completely unworkable/unsustainable business model, as proven by the fact that they have never generated a profit and have lost billions of dollars.
It only takes a few people to develop and maintain a ride sharing app, a few people to maintain the servers and a few people to handle all the behind the scenes stuff required to run a business. A hundred people, max. Uber has 22,000 employees w
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's 800 left as someone pointed out, and it's not clear to me what all 1200 were doing. Honestly does anyone capable of using Uber not know what it is at this point?
I know people who prefer Lyft over Uber, often for some vague ideological reason, but about 99% of the time its a car with Lyft and Uber decals on it, so like zero difference.
All I can think is that "marketing" is just a giant umbrella term and the people were doing something far more specific, such as creating driver recruiting materials or s
Re: (Score:2)
...and it's not clear to me what all 1200 were doing
No? They were busy trying to take over the restaurant industry until that recent article. ;)
Re: (Score:2)
It's 800 left as someone pointed out, and it's not clear to me what all 1200 were doing. Honestly does anyone capable of using Uber not know what it is at this point?
In the USA or the world in general?
Re: (Score:2)
I suspect that the main thing marketing people are good at is convincing their employers that they are somehow useful.
Like you, I can't imagine what these 1,200 people are doing all day. Probably going to a lot of meetings and filing sexual harassment lawsuits against each other.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not that cynical, but my experience leads me to believe that marketing employees often are "gap fillers" in organizations, with either the skills or tools (Adobe suite, color copiers, etc) to produce work products that have nothing to do with actual "marketing" of a businesses' products.
They're kind of the shock troops of a large-scale bureaucracy, pressed into service for all manner of communications and presentation needs.
Re: (Score:2)
You're the expert; why don't you tell us.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I can play that game too! (Score:2)
Providing a Service (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder, what Uber was doing with that many marketroids? 1200 are more than some other companies employ in total. Getting rid of 1/3 of them won't hurt Uber.
As in other news recently, Uber had an unfavourable court ruling in Austria [vienna.at] and stopped operating there. Seems they would have to operate under the same regulations as all other taxi drivers, which breaks their business model.
Same in other countries. In Saigon they dominated the local scene for bike-taxis until they run afoul local laws and disappared. Grab [grab.com] took over the market.
This is where Uber will make it or brake it, not whether they can field another battalion of marketeers.
Re: (Score:2)
I wonder, what Uber was doing with that many marketroids? 1200 are more than some other companies employ in total. Getting rid of 1/3 of them won't hurt Uber.
As in other news recently, Uber had an unfavourable court ruling in Austria [vienna.at] and stopped operating there. Seems they would have to operate under the same regulations as all other taxi drivers, which breaks their business model.
Same in other countries. In Saigon they dominated the local scene for bike-taxis until they run afoul local laws and disappared. Grab [grab.com] took over the market.
This is where Uber will make it or brake it, not whether they can field another battalion of marketeers.
Uber is a company that warned in its I.P.O prospectus that it will probably never make a profit which kind of says it all.
Re:Providing a Service (Score:4, Insightful)
It just rams home the fact that Uber is not primarily a tech company, they are mostly just criminals. The marketing department has been there to help them hide their criminality. Perhaps this is a sign that Uber understands that they don't have the political clout to flaunt the law forever.
So (Score:1)
Libertarian troll, or Uber shill? They hand out modpoints to anyone
Re: (Score:2)
Learn the difference between "flaunt" and "flout". I'm getting really sick of the illiteracy here.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm, I thought I wrote flout. No autocorrect excuse as I was using my keyboard. I know the difference without looking it up, thanks.
FWIW, I don't bother people over these kinds of mistakes any more because more often than not they're just jotting off a quick comment and it's been autodestructed. But you can be as upset as you like.
Re: (Score:2)
I wonder, what Uber was doing with that many marketroids? 1200 are more than some other companies employ in total.
Probably sending them to get exclusive travels deals with corporations. My company has one with Lyft where we get special rates through the app, company saves money etc. They send their sales/marketing people all over the world trying to get these deals. Once they get a company to create its system around your service, its rare the company will stop using it. Thats good long term money. I can see a large number of sales people for this purpose I suppose.
Re: (Score:1)
You don't "lay off" marketing people, you "exterminate" marketing people.
Well, now they're free to drive for Uber. Same diff, just it'll take longer for them to die.
Re: (Score:2)
They already have nearly half the revenue of US taxi services. In foreign nations they will often be blocked by strict taxi regulations or by government showing local companies preferential treatment.
Their growth potential is severely limited ... when you are trying to justify a 80 billion market cap, that's a problem.
Lay off your way to power (Score:4, Funny)
Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi to staff and seen by CNN Business, he says, "we are not making these changes because Marketing has become less important to Uber. The exact opposite is true: we are making these changes because presenting a powerful, unified, and dynamic vision to the world has never been more important."
So why not lay off the other 800 and get superpowers?
Didn't fly (Score:4, Funny)
Laid off from Uber? A great opportunity for them! (Score:2, Funny)
These 400 marketing can take this layoff as a great opportunity to be their own boss and take control of their lives by becoming Uber drivers! They can work as little or as much as they want! They can set their own hours!! I assume they already have awesome new cars so this should be very profitable for them. They can be making hundreds of dollars every single week!
uber vs taxis, or do they ever make a profit? (Score:2)
Never used uber, been years since using a cab... I can see how uber disrupted taxi business but I also see there is no way for a uber driver to have a sustainable line of work. For cab drivers, are they able to earn a livable wage? There was a documentary where taxi drivers have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their own medallion (permit) to operate a cab. Uber gets around all this by skipping the medallion, essentially an unlicensed taxi service (it is ***not*** a ridesharing service).
I se
Re: (Score:2)
Never used uber, been years since using a cab... I can see how uber disrupted taxi business but I also see there is no way for a uber driver to have a sustainable line of work. For cab drivers, are they able to earn a livable wage? There was a documentary where taxi drivers have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their own medallion (permit) to operate a cab. Uber gets around all this by skipping the medallion, essentially an unlicensed taxi service (it is ***not*** a ridesharing service).
Not quite how it works, at least with the cab drivers I know. Cab drivers don't need medallions. Cars need medallions. Whoever owns the medallion, puts it on a car and then leases it out to other people to drive 24/7. Medallions are limited in supply with new ones hardly ever released. The people who own them don't sell them unless it's an emergency because just owning one and letting a cab company handle all the other details still brings in quite a bit of money, ~$75k/year (20 years ago in my city). When
Re: (Score:2)
Medallions are limited in supply with new ones hardly ever released.
Why limited medallions? Do cities want to limit number of cabs? Seems to me limited medallions are like limiting building permits which leads to artificial supply problems and pricing many out of the market. Interesting mention of limo in contrast to taxi.
Re: (Score:2)
Medallions are limited in supply with new ones hardly ever released.
Why limited medallions? Do cities want to limit number of cabs? Seems to me limited medallions are like limiting building permits which leads to artificial supply problems and pricing many out of the market. Interesting mention of limo in contrast to taxi.
Yes. Usually with the reason of not wanting too many taxis on the streets and thus providing not enough work per person. Reality is that politics plays into it and the companies and people that have the medallions don't want other companies and people interfering with their defacto monopolies, so they apply pressure (or money). The same way taxi companies keep light rail from going to the airport in many cities that have it.
Uber will fail (Score:3, Insightful)
It's only a matter of time. I drove for Uber when I was in school, and when I was looking for a job after. In the beginning it was ok. Then they started dropping the rates. In my area the rate when from 0.96 a mile to 0.78 per mile. Might be lower now.
That shit adds up. In the beginning it was possible to grind out some decent cash $20-25/ hour. But now its a joke. After you realize how much wear and tear you are putting on your vehicle - scheduled maintenance is much more frequent, and gas, and constantly cleaning your car. And then paying your own taxes as a 1099 You end up with about $9/hour.
And while paying drivers an effective rate of $9/hour they lost a billion dollars in 3 months? So driver's will be pinched even harder.
Soon you going to have a trained chimp with a hat and vest picking you up when you call Uber. But once the zoo learns they are actually losing money that will end too.
No wonder they are pushing this driver less tech so hard.
Uber markets laying off marketing team (Score:1)
How do the lose a billion? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
WTF are uber doing that they can lose a billion dollars? Isn't their whole think getting a job done and taking a cut? How do they lose so much money doing, essentially, nothing?
It's a good question. If I had to wager a guess they are eating cost, and fucking drivers to make the platform look more appealing to passengers.
Solution : Price it for what it is and pay your drivers well. It will likely be very similar pricing to a traditional cab. But its a whole hell of a lot more convenient.
If you cant afford it , then I really don't want you in my car anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
I believe they make money per ride. However, they also have costs of enrolling new drivers. And, they have huge marketing costs because they're trying to enter new markets all the time. Heck, they entered the scooter market recently for some reason.
What their investors are banking on is that these high startup costs (billions of dollars) apply to everyone entering the market, not just the first two companies (Lyft, Uber), which will give them a duopoly on "ridesharing" allowing them both to make monopoly
Re: (Score:2)
but I think it's hookers and blow, just like wall street in the 80's.
Good image? Fire 'em all! (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It's a lot easier to teach engineers how to program than it is to teach programmers industrial engineering.
I actually tried doing that and I have to say that you are wrong, it's every bit as hard to teach engineers to code as a it is to teach coders engineering. However, you are right about many coders having delusions of Silicone Valley startup billionaire and retiring at 27 to a life of goofing off with multi million dollar toys.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
it's every bit as hard to teach engineers to code
Not even close.
Re: (Score:3)
it's every bit as hard to teach engineers to code
Not even close.
It depends on what you mean by "code". It's easy enough to teach engineers to write code that works, but to a real programmer "works" is the bare minimum. Maintainability, readability / clarity / elegance, security, scalability, flexibility, resilience to change... and on and on. There is a lot more to writing good code than just making it work on your machine.
Engineers can, of course, learn all of this. It will take them 1-2 years of focused effort to achieve basic proficiency, and another few years
Re: (Score:2)
it's every bit as hard to teach engineers to code
Not even close.
It depends on what you mean by "code". It's easy enough to teach engineers to write code that works, but to a real programmer "works" is the bare minimum. Maintainability, readability / clarity / elegance, security, scalability, flexibility, resilience to change... and on and on. There is a lot more to writing good code than just making it work on your machine.
Engineers can, of course, learn all of this. It will take them 1-2 years of focused effort to achieve basic proficiency, and another few years to achieve mastery. Which is about how long it takes a bright person who isn't already an engineer to learn to program. I've seen no evidence that engineers get any significant advantage from their prior education (except for the bits that are common, like math) when learning to program. And, unfortunately, most engineers don't want to apply the necessary focus to programming for the necessary amount of time because they want to do engineering.
The end result is that engineers who switch career tracks and become programmers generally become good programmers, over time. Engineers who learn to code just enough to accomplish their engineering goals write lousy code that causes lots of pain later.
As for the other direction, it seems pretty similar. An example in a different engineering field: I dabble in electronic engineering, and I make stuff work, but I know that it sucks and that a real EE would be horrified by it. Indeed, a couple of times I've had EE friends look at my circuits and they have told me they're awful. I'm sure I could learn to be a competent electronic engineer, but that it would require years of focused effort.
Word...
Re: (Score:2)
was written by an industrial engineer. I've seen their code, it's terrible, but they all thought they wrote awesome code.
The one thing though, if you think programmers are weird, well you haven't met many industrial engineers then.
Strangest bunch of people I have ever met, and I suppose I am generalizing based on the small sample set that I have worked wit
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What are they doing? Well, it's pretty simple. They're going out and finding investors who don't seem to believe in ROI. They have had absolutely no problem borrowing money, and so long as there are banks and investors willing to give them cash based on a wing and a prayer, they'll just keep motoring along.