US Dept. of Transportation Rules Airlines Must Allow Miniature Horses to Fly as Service Animals (thedrive.com) 351
An anonymous reader shares a report: For all its indignities, air travel is also surprisingly democratic -- people of all stripes and shades crammed together into a small metal tube and lofted into the sky. Some of them have service animals, some of which are a hair more exotic than a vested dog. This has caused some spirited debates. But on Thursday, the U.S. Department of Transportation issued its final guidance on the subject and added miniature horses to the list of service animals that can fly in any cabin. You may have some questions. Yes, miniature horses make great -- if rare -- service animals for those with emotional and physical disabilities. Standing 2-3 feet tall, weighing around 100 pounds, and often living 35 years or longer, they're not unlike large dogs in their comforting presence and ability to perform complex tasks. And yes, airlines have historically balked at the idea of seating a horse in Economy Plus. The DoT's statement notes that air carriers "have asked us to declare that a wide variety of species (e.g., birds...and animals with hooves or horns) constitute 'unusual service animals' that may be categorically banned." But with trained miniature horses officially recognized in the Americans with Disabilities Act as legitimate service animals, the agency has decided they must be able to fly. The declaration isn't a law per se, but it indicates that they'll punish U.S. airlines that violate it.
Fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as they are actual service animals, trained and registered; and not some "emotional support animal".
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Sarcastic moral panic is a lot like leaving your engine idling in the parking lot while you nip inside for some smokes, thinking it will be quick, only the street person in front of you spends three full minutes counting out exact change from nickels and dimes, and then when you get back to your idling vehicle, you smash your fist on the roof and go "well, it was supposed to be quick!" and then you ch
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ever been on a flight with bad turbulence? The kind that can knock people into the ceiling if they're not wearing seat belts? Or perhaps some extremely rough/emergency landings?
A large animal like that could actually be fatal to a child sitting in a nearby seat when something like that happens. So no, it is NOT fine to most people who realize it's completely asinine to bring a horse on a commercial plane, and the U.S. DoT should at least try to push back against people trying to abuse the Americans with Disabilities Act like this.
FTA: "the guidance only allows airlines to specifically ban snakes, reptiles, ferrets, rodents, and spiders"
You would think someone trying to bring a horse onto a plane would be the wake-up call lawmakers need to fix this crap. Do we really need someone to try forcing their way onto a plane with an "emotional support bison" to actually wake them up?
Re:Fine. (Score:4, Insightful)
A horse would be more likely to be fatal for a few reasons:
1) A WASP is significantly more likely to be buckled in using a seat belt that has been both designed and tested specifically for a human sitting in those seats.
2) Pretty much every part of a WASP's body are softer than a horse's hooves (which would likely be lashing out in a panic in a situation like that).
3) (Less likely, but still possible) If the WASP has any time at all to realize that they're about to crush a child, he/she can make an attempt to fall in a way that is less likely to harm the child. There may be no time to react, but even just throwing your arms out in an attempt to make sure the seat back takes the brunt of the fall (instead of the child) might help.
IMO a better argument against WASPs would be how stubborn many of them are about not keeping their seat belts on when they're seated. TBH, I really wouldn't mind if those people were banned from flying along with the horses, though.
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Um, no they are no service animals at all and require no specific training, this is just rich and privileged people getting whatever they want
An emotional support animal (ESA), assistance animal, or support animal, is a companion animal that is intended to provide some benefit for a person disabled by a mental health condition or emotional disorder. Emotional support animals are typically dogs, but are sometimes cats or other animals: they are intended to assist persons suffering psychological disabilities
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
We are about to go over the hill with all this snowflake bullshit.
I get it, some people have emotional problems. Some need true service animals, like those that help blind people to get about society, no problem.
But this runaway "emotional support" thing where "certifications over the internet" allow anyone to get a certificate for just about anything is going over the top.
I guess I'll get one for my service pet Eric the half bee next.
Seriously, how are you going to pack on miniature horses on a fucking airplane?
They're going to be standing in the aisles? How will the drink cart get through?
Won't this be a problem in case of an emergency evacuation?
What about literal horseshit?
Unless you have a REAL handicap, toughen your ass up and get an adult. You don't need a fucking comfort horse, or peacock or garden slug to help you fly or make your way through life.
WTF has happened to people these days?
We've come a long way down the hill from the "greatest generation" in a very short piece of historical time.
I'm really scared to see what will happen in case of some really domestic crisis, like a sun flare where power goes out for an extended period of time.
I'm guessing those relying on emotional mini-horses will be the first to perish.
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not sure what your point is, because this news explicitly does not cover "emotional support" animals. There are blind people who use miniature horses for assistance instead of dogs.
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But this runaway "emotional support" thing
is excluded from this ruling. Only genuine, trained service animals who perform a task for the disabled person are included.
They're going to be standing in the aisles? How will the drink cart get through?
Won't this be a problem in case of an emergency evacuation?
What about literal horseshit?
You could make the same argument about service dogs in restaurants. What's to stop the dog licking the buffet or taking a dump on the floor? I'll tell you.
A service animal should be trained to not do those things. The ACA specifically states that the animal must be trained in order to be considered a service animal.
The airline may have to allocate some space to the animal, just like th
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Interesting)
How about living in a world where many people have severe allergies to the animal you want to pretend you need in order to be crammed into a sardine can with 200 of your closest friends? Do people with fur allergies not have any rights?
Re: Fine. (Score:4, Funny)
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You can find places online that will send you a certificate within 2 days of applying and going through a 15m "consultation". While there are certainly good programs, most are about a rigorous as getting your online viagra prescription.
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You can find places online that will send you a certificate within 2 days of applying and going through a 15m "consultation".
There is NO requirement for any consultation. Nor is there any requirement for "registration" or a "certificate".
There is a requirement for "training", but self-training is legal. So if you say you trained your dog, no one has a legal right to challenge you.
You can buy a "service animal ID" from Amazon [amazon.com]. Just pay for it, and it is yours. I got one for my dog, so if I stop by the grocery store while returning from a hike, I don't have to leave her in the car.
But the ID is legally meaningless, since there
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
You can buy a "service animal ID" from Amazon. Just pay for it, and it is yours. I got one for my dog, so if I stop by the grocery store while returning from a hike, I don't have to leave her in the car.
But the ID is legally meaningless, since there is no requirement to have an ID. It is mainly to get ignorant people to stop bothering me and let my dog into their shop.
What a jackass. People like you make life harder for people with actual service animals.
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
How so? In what way am I making anyone's life harder?
Because you're the reason why people tend to disbelieve those who claim their animals are actually service animals.
It takes a massive sense of entitlement to think that you should be able to bring your pet onto someone else's private property without permission; so much so that you lie and abuse the law in order to do so.
Re:Fine. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you are not disabled, then you are breaking various laws.
The more people who abuse and violate the law, the less likely a person with a genuine disability is likely to be believed.
Genuinely disabled people have no problems explaining the law. Why do you think that you have some special ability in this regard? Unless you are visibly disabled, people will listen to you and likely discard what you have said immediately you leave the premises.
Genuinely disabled people do have problems bringing service animals along.
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whoever57 remonstrated thusly:
If you are not disabled, then you are breaking various laws.
The more people who abuse and violate the law, the less likely a person with a genuine disability is likely to be believed.
Genuinely disabled people have no problems explaining the law. Why do you think that you have some special ability in this regard? Unless you are visibly disabled, people will listen to you and likely discard what you have said immediately you leave the premises.
Genuinely disabled people do have problems bringing service animals along.
In fact, there is a maximum $250 federal fine for falsely claiming a dog or miniature horse is a service animal - and that's per incident.
The fact is that the law forbids any person from demanding to see certification or licensing documentation for service animals. There are fines and potentially jail terms for violators of those prohibitions. Legally, you may only inquire as to the specific nature of the disability with which the animal is specifically trained to help you cope
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How so? In what way am I making anyone's life harder?
By lying about having a service animal, and expecting your dog to be treated as one when you know that it isn't. You demonstrate a selfish attitude that results in false claims, which then leads others to doubt true service animal owners when they come across them.
You wrote: "You can buy a "service animal ID" from Amazon [amazon.com]. Just pay for it, and it is yours. I got one for my dog, so if I stop by the grocery store while returning from a hike, I don't have to leave her in the car."
In other wor
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It's not the dog's fault that its owner is an asshat, poor thing probably has no idea.
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One of the requirements, isn't that you have documentation, but you can explain what disability the animal is trained to help you overcome.
Those owners have the legal right to make you leave your animal outside. Where it belongs.
You are part of the problem.
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Informative)
One of the requirements, isn't that you have documentation, but you can explain what disability the animal is trained to help you overcome.
No. This is wrong. It is ILLEGAL for them to ask any questions about the animal hander's disability.
They can ask:
Legal: Is this a service animal?
Legal: What tasks has your animal been trained to do?
They can NOT ask:
ILLEGAL: What is your disability?
ILLEGAL: Who trained your animal?
ILLEGAL: Can you demonstrate your animal performing a task?
ILLEGAL: Do you have any documentation on your service animal?
ADA FAQ on Service Animals [ada.gov]
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Kinda like how no surgery or hormone treatment or even a doctor's note is required to claim Title IX treatment to allow men to go into women's locker rooms, play women's sports, etc. under Obama doctrine (since overturned by Trump). All they have to do is "identify" and that's it. No one may question their claim. Women who might otherwise complain about having men who simply claimed to be women (no medial treatment or diagnosis required, just a statement) were told to pound sand.
The lack of even minimal req
Re:Fine. (Score:4, Insightful)
My wife thanks you for the hives that her allergy to your mutt gives her.
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Get caught without a doctor certifying you need a support animal ...
Doctors do not issue any such certifications, and there is no requirement to have one.
To be clear:
There is no "certificate" for service animals.
There is no "certificate" to be considered disabled.
There is no license required for either animal or handler.
There is no ID required for either animal or handler.
There is no official training required for service animals.
There is no registration required for service animals.
There is no registry or database of service animals.
There is no requirement that service ani
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Informative)
Usually, "emotional support animals" are actual service animals, trained and registered, as recognized in the Americans with Disabilities Act. This is the kind of miniature horses the article is about.
"Emotional Support Animals" do not have legal protections.
To be considered a Service Animal, the ADA definition is:
Dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities.
That's it. Ignoring the fact that this has been extended to other types of animals, it is clear that the animal must be trained to perform a service. Many "emotional support animals" are not. Some service animals are trained for psychiatric tasks, such as retrieving medication, turning on lights and waking up their handler if he or she is having a night terror, searching the home to alleviate symptoms of hypervigilance, guiding their handler home during a dissociative episode, initiating tactile intervention when a handler experiences sensory overload, etc. But the requirement is that the animal must be trained to perform a service.
An animal that exists purely to comfort the owner is not a service animal and is not protected. It is completely within the law to ask "What is the service that this animal performs?" and reject access to animals that do not perform a specific service.
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It is completely within the law to ask "What is the service that this animal performs?"
It is legal to ask, but it is illegal to ask the owner to actually demonstrate the animal's ability to perform the task.
Shop employees rarely ask, but if they do, I tell them my dog is a seizure alert animal.
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I would state that such animals still should just be Dogs, unless there is a really compelling reason for it to be an other animal.
Humans and Dogs have shared an evolutionary partnership for thousands of years. Much longer then any other animal. Cats and Horses are mostly domesticated, can be trained. However they have less of a connection with people.
Re:Fine. (Score:4, Interesting)
miniature horses are used as seeing eye animals for people who are allergic to dogs.
because they live so long (35 years), they have a longer working life, and in the long run are cheaper than training a new dog every 10 years
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ZombieCatInABox claimed:
Usually, "emotional support animals" are actual service animals, trained and registered, as recognized in the Americans with Disabilities Act. This is the kind of miniature horses the article is about.
No.
Under U.S. Title II and III of the Americans with Disabilities Act [ada.gov], as of 2011, only dogs may officially be designated as "service animals." However, under Title 28 [cornell.edu], miniature horses may also legally be employed as service animals, so long as they meet the training and other requirements under section 35.136.
You're also dead wrong about "emotional support animals" having co-equal legal status with service animals. They don't. "Emotional support animal" is a buzz term, with no lega
Re:Fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF are you talking about? Emotional Support Animals are recognized by the ADA.
They are not included in the Service Animal laws. Their use anywhere and everywhere is not protected.
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>"WTF are you talking about? Emotional Support Animals are recognized by the ADA."
What a farce. We all know the concept of "emotional support animals" in public is a crock of crap. If one is BLIND and has a seeing eye dog, fine. That is about the only valid "service animal" I think is reasonable in most public places. Otherwise, many people have *actual* medical problems- like bad animal allergies and should not be subjected to others' dogs, cats, ferrets, horses, or any other "emotional support" ani
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... not having legit documentation
There is no documentation required for service animals. There is no registry and no database. The IDs and certificates that you can buy on Amazon are convenient but legally meaningless since there is no requirement to have one.
In fact, it is illegal for anyone with authority to deny access to even ask for documentation.
See Q7 of the ADA FAQ for Service Animals [ada.gov].
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It'd be great if you could just buy out an entire row of seats and pay an extra fare to have it tented off for privacy. You could join the mile high club, have your horse sit next to you or whatever as long as it wasn't a threat to aviation or passenger safety.
"confort" animals are in dire need of training (Score:5, Insightful)
The entitled attitude of people with comfort animals is getting irksome. One should not be able to have any critter and take it anywhere under this guise. Like guide and other service animals, support animals need to get an official program so they behave.
Re:"confort" animals are in dire need of training (Score:5, Insightful)
The entitled attitude of people with comfort animals is getting irksome. One should not be able to have any critter and take it anywhere under this guise. Like guide and other service animals, support animals need to get an official program so they behave.
Most "comfort" animals on planes aren't comfort animals. They're pets that people are too cheap or unwilling to subject them to being stuck in the bottom of the plane (having loaded plenty of animals into plane cargo holds, including weeks old puppies, don't do it unless you absolutely have to, it terrifies them). Real service/comfort animals are trained not to pee/crap all over the place or bite people. Most of these people are ruining/stigmatizing things for the people who actually do need support/comfort animals.
Do you have any sources to back that up? (Score:2)
Re: Do you have any sources to back that up? (Score:4, Insightful)
Then don't fly.
Really, if you're that messed in the head the solution is to not fly.
Or take a Benzo to chill the snowflake within.
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I completely agree. Further , there is virtually no vetting (ha!), and people register their family dog as a "service animal" so it can go on the plane. It's absurd.
A lot of the major airlines now require proof from a doctor that a service animal is required as well as valid documentation from accredited organizations certifying the animal is correctly trained before they will accept the animals as a service animal.
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Re:"confort" animals are in dire need of training (Score:5, Insightful)
All pets are "comfort animals". Why else would you keep one?
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Service horses are generally potty trained. That said, they have to relieve themselves more often than dogs.
In general, though, they perform the exact same role as a service dog. Horses are very intelligent animals, and they have advantages over dogs in that they live significantly longer, and have better peripheral vision (almost 360 degrees), and excellent night vision. Allergies to horses aren't as common as to dogs, and some people have religious objections to keeping dogs but not horses. Horses howev
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The best part was when he said they need an official program. ..there is an official program.
Also amusing: regulator passes regulation, "It's not a law per-se, but they'll enforce it" like somebody doesn't know how the law works.
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The best part was when he said they need an official program. ..there is an official program.
There is no program that I am aware of. To be a protected service animal, the animal must be trained to perform a specific task or service. That's the ADA definition of service animal.
It is completely within the law to ask "What is the service that this animal performs?" and reject access to animals that do not perform a specific service. But it is really difficult for individual companies or venues to make the distinction, and the wrong decision can easily lead to a lawsuit.
There is a need for
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No, there's an official certificate, and it actually applies to the owner stating that they have a need. During this process the animal may or may not be evaluated. No actual training is required. There are so many programs out there that are just certificate mills it isn't even funny.
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Given how pretty much every comfort animal belongs to someone with a severe mental handicap
We certainly agree on this!
Re:"confort" animals are in dire need of training (Score:5, Insightful)
I sincerely hope you one day need to sit next to someone on a plane who had their service animal taken away from them. It will make a plane full a new born babys seem like a trip to anechoic chamber in comparison.
Because an untrained animal (large dog, horse) with no training having a panic attack at 35K" is so pleasant for everyone. Maybe someone who has such a severe problem but can't be bothered to get a trained animal should stay home until they can be bothered. Or should act entitled to take their untrained animal anywhere, just because they're special?
That's it, I'm bringing a Llama (Score:4, Funny)
If someone else can bring a freaking HORSE on a plane, I can certainly bring a pack llama to help me carry my luggage.
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His name isn't Karl, is it?
Re:That's it, I'm bringing a Llama (Score:4, Funny)
Watch out for Winamp, it whips the llama's ass!
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If someone else can bring a freaking HORSE on a plane, I can certainly bring a pack llama to help me carry my luggage.
Yes, but only if it’ll fit in the overhead bin.
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Only if it doesn't wear a hat.
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If someone else can bring a freaking HORSE on a plane, ...
Miniature equines serve as balance assist animals for people with vertigo producing disorders such as Menier's disease (a horrible progressive destruction of the inner ear caused by a stuck pressure relief valve).
Dogs don't work for this. Lean/fall against a dog and it moves away. Lean against an equine and it leans back - just what you need to keep you upright and avoid falling, brusing, broken bones, ...
Mini donkeys may be better than mini horses
the drawback is.. (Score:2)
there'll be a lot of coughing, because,....
[do I have to say it?]
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I don't know... (Score:4, Insightful)
Do I want to sit by the guy with the pony or not.
I'm leaning toward yes. I do want to sit next to the guy with the pony. That kinda sounds awesome.
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Do I want to sit by the guy with the pony or not.
I'm leaning toward yes. I do want to sit next to the guy with the pony. That kinda sounds awesome.
Oh you do, the alternative is to sit next to me and my 500 pound sabre tooth cat.
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I'm totally going to sit next to your cat and order the fish. Going to get my drinks (and wheelchair handler) comped for life!
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"Must allow miniature horses to fly" (Score:4, Funny)
Re:"Must allow miniature horses to fly" (Score:5, Informative)
I didn't realize horses were capable of flying due to their lack of wings.
They can fly, but they all have trouble when it comes to the landing.
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> They can fly, but they all have trouble when it comes to the landing.
Dude, the bronies setting policy in their fantasy world at USDOT are counting on pegacorns.
Also: horses can't be housetrained, much less airplane-trained. Y'all wanted Big Brother in charge of airlines - horseshit policy is what you get. #wewontfly
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Awesome Python reference!
Re:"Must allow miniature horses to fly" (Score:4, Insightful)
You joke, but imagine hitting severe turbulence with one of these horses, unsecured, flying around the cabin. If you're lucky the only thing you'll get hit with is the flying horseshit.
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Believe me, if that thing craps on me over the Atlantic, it learns how to fly.
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My horse is Pegasus, you insensitive clod.
I have to ask... (Score:2)
...who clears the shit up?
We Need One Thing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Misbehaving animals should have their "service" status revoked.
I have a blind friend with a well-trained guide dog. It never barks unless he's about to do something dangerous. It doesn't care about crowds, car/TV noise, other dogs, etc. When he's seated, it will lay directly next to him or underneath the seat.
If these so-called service animals misbehave and disturb other passengers, they should be removed from the flight. There should be a certifying agency and clear rules. While I'm not a fan of bureaucracy, I'm sick of people bringing their miscreant beasts into places where they can't behave themselves.
Horses? (Score:4, Funny)
To that, I would have to say, "Neigh!"
you've got to be kidding me (Score:2)
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Where do I apply for the privilege of culling the human herd?
Probably best to not open that link. (Score:2)
I would suggest you don't open that link, unless you have some "protection". One CPU core at 100% while reading that page, this is common with sites that host crypto-miners etc.
Allergies (Score:2)
If you're wondering why a mini-horse may be a better option than a dog, supposedly it's because some people who require service animals have dog-related allergies.
Miniature horses are very easy to groom and don’t shed or trigger allergies like dogs often do
https://usserviceanimals.org/b... [usserviceanimals.org]
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Behavior-wise horses are basically just really large dogs anyway, especially if they've been trained.
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no, a dog will not kick your heart out through you ribs, a horse with someone behind them can get nervous and do just that.
Horses are not dogs.
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There are plenty of dogs that don't shed or cause allergies. I have one, a golden doodle
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I have one, a golden doodle
No doubt, but how do those fair as service animals?
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I have one, a golden doodle
No doubt, but how do those fair as service animals?
My mother-in-law's labradoodle is used as a therapy dog to help children learn to read. They're certainly smart enough. One of our doodles (who i think is actually a goldendoodle because she act so much like my M-I-L's golden and our labradoodle acts so much like her labradoodle) can open our kitchen trashcan. We have leave a metal pan on top to use the noise to scare her away when she tries to get into it (both her and my m-i-l's golden are big chickens)
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I didn't think of the therapy dog use......I was narrow-mindedly thinking of seeing-eye dogs.
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They would be incredible. Very smart, very gentle.
A 100 Pound loose object in a Passenger Cabin... (Score:2)
Expect a horse coming your way when you are in turbulence the next time.
What a fantastic short sighted idea.
Well, I guess I won't ever fly again (Score:2)
Finally, my service alligator can fly with me (Score:5, Informative)
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I'm a sadist, so I'd bring a velociraptor.
I'll just lock myself in the lav. There's no way they could learn to open doors.
Was there a cost benefits analysis? (Score:2)
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*We have to make some accommodations to allow people with disabilities to participate in society*
No, we don't. Who made that rule? People can buy or make what they need to make themselves functional and there may be things they can never do, doesn't need to be "on society".
Oh, HELL, NO! (Score:2)
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If you fly, use an A320 instead. They are wider, hence more comfortable.
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It's posting a meme to say this, but: can you imagine the smell?
Speaking as someone whose grandparents lived next to a cow field and owned horses, the smell isn't horrible. There's nothing like the smell of sweetfeed, dried horse manure, and tobacco that permeated the barn back when it was used to dry tobacco. It's actually mildly pleasant.
Reason 2,493 why I REFUSE TO FLY (Score:3)
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At least I seriously hope it's AI-generated, otherwise writing something this way must have taken a lot of effort...
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This is a mistake only a native speaker would make. While it sounds close enough for them, the words would make no sense whatsoever to a non-native. Same goes for things like "could of".
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Hell no, let'em roam free! Cage some of the passengers!
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I thought that's what airlines do these days anyway?
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