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Amazon Has Ceded Control of Its Site. The Result: Thousands of Banned, Unsafe or Mislabeled Products (wsj.com) 131

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Just like tech companies that have struggled to tackle misinformation on their platforms, Amazon has proven unable or unwilling to effectively police third-party sellers on its site. The Wall Street Journal: Many of the millions of people who shop on Amazon.com see it as if it were an American big-box store, a retailer with goods deemed safe enough for customers. In practice, Amazon has increasingly evolved like a flea market. It exercises limited oversight over items listed by millions of third-party sellers, many of them anonymous, many in China, some offering scant information. A Wall Street Journal investigation found 4,152 items for sale on Amazon.com's site that have been declared unsafe by federal agencies, are deceptively labeled or are banned by federal regulators -- items that big-box retailers' policies would bar from their shelves. Among those items, at least 2,000 listings for toys and medications lacked warnings about health risks to children.

The Journal identified at least 157 items for sale that Amazon had said it banned, including sleeping mats the Food and Drug Administration warns can suffocate infants. The Journal commissioned tests of 10 children's products it bought on Amazon, many promoted as "Amazon's Choice." Four failed tests based on federal safety standards, according to the testing company, including one with lead levels that exceeded federal limits. Of the 4,152 products the Journal identified, 46% were listed as shipping from Amazon warehouses. After the Journal brought the listings to Amazon's attention, 57% of the 4,152 listings had their wording altered or were taken down. Amazon said that it reviewed and addressed the listings the Journal provided and that company policies require all products to comply with laws and regulations.
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Amazon Has Ceded Control of Its Site. The Result: Thousands of Banned, Unsafe or Mislabeled Products More

Amazon Has Ceded Control of Its Site. The Result: Thousands of Banned, Unsafe or Mislabeled Products

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  • Fuck it, I'm switching to Costco (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <vincent@jan@goh.gmail@com> on Friday August 23, 2019 @09:45AM (#59116114) Homepage

    Why even bother with this hot mess of a company any more? Their products aren't the best, and they're not even the cheapest, in general. They're not a great employer by any public accounting of it, and I really can't find a good reason to support this stuff anymore. Maybe I won't be able to get the most rock-bottom garbage cases for my phone anymore, but I'm probably better off for it.

    • for those who aren't lazy and do research, the very best of some items can be had on Amazon at fantastic prices. Shop around. It's like any other large department store really.

      buyer beware.

      • the very best of some items can be had on Amazon at fantastic prices.

        those good prices are, partly, because they cut corners where they can. One of which is ensuring that the goods that it sells are legal and safe. Brick & mortar shops have had to do these things for many years, Amazon do not bother and gets away with it. Conforming to regulations costs real money, Amazon not doing this is part of the reason that it can sell cheaply. Who suffers if something goes wrong ? You - the customer.

        Amazon says that many products are sold on behalf of other vendors with whom the l

        • It's also interesting that if you look at Amazon operations in countries where there are regulations and those regulations have teeth, this problem barely exists. This is purely a product of that fact that they can get away with anything in the US. They've proven that they can deal with the issue in countries where regulations, and regulators, compel them to act in a responsible manner, it's just that they don't have to care in the US.

      • for those who aren't lazy and do research, the very best of some items can be had on Amazon at fantastic prices. Shop around. It's like any other large department store really.

        buyer beware.

        You are assuming you are receiving what you thought you are buying. Those "fantastic prices" are often the result of counterfeit or defective goods being sold. You can't even trust the seller name, many have been hijacked. There are many products I just wont buy there any more, like water filters. They seem to be a "fantastic price" for the name brand filter and yet somehow they don't fit right and leak all over the place. Who knows whats inside them, it's not like you can check.

        • I had a friend order a cheap Black birdHDMi-to-7.1ch-analog-surround converter/decoder from monoprice.com recently but they ordered it from Amazon. The item that arrived had major design flaws.

          Anyone still giving that company their business deserves what they get.

          • I buy my music from there, if there isn't a more attractive offer from the label itself (Sometimes Nuclear Blast has a killer offer of limited edtition vinyl in superb colors.... I can't ever pass that up...)

            I've had no troubles buying LEGO sets (nothing overly fancy... the low-end "city" stuff), and I sometimes buy used books from third party sellers there as well. But I am realistic. Seeing something that otherwise costs $500 for $99 is part of my job as a savvy customer to avoid, even if it says "Amazon

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Hard to shop around online. I can't hold or examine the object, and the photos they have are awful, the descriptions are insufficient, they don't have technical details when required, and the reviews are not trustworthy. If I go to a brick and mortar store and see the item I want, then I will buy it then and there because the local economy needs supporting and the price difference is likely zero (unless you're cheating and not paying sales tax on your online purchases).

    • Not a bad employer (Score:4, Interesting)

      by virtig01 ( 414328 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:15AM (#59116250)

      They're not a great employer by any public accounting of it

      They have a 3.9 on Glassdoor, with 75% of reviewers recommending the company [glassdoor.com].

    • OFFS, doesn't anybody know the time-honored statement: caveat emptor (buyer beware)

      You are buying something on the freaking internet, through a website that enables people to put up storefronts, process payments and deliver goods.

      What's next? EBAY?

      LOL, sometimes the griping over making a poor choice is just deafening, unless of course you just dislike Bezo's in which case maybe you can just be honest about what you are complaining about.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by I4ko ( 695382 )

        Umm no. I grew up in a communist country. Penultimate consumer protection. If some company would sell a fake product their executives would find themselves on the wrong end of a firing squad and their more regular employees would find themselves in a labour reeducation camp. So fake products were practically unheard of.

      • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @11:51AM (#59116708)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Your argument falls apart in the face of counterfeit goods. Do your research, select your item, and then what? What if you're getting a widget labeled "Made by XYZ" but it's not?

          A good barometer of that sort of thing is price. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Now if there are counterfeit goods being sold at the same price as the original then we've got a dilemma that the FTC should be looking into. (It just seems unlikely to find counterfeit goods at the same price, because you'd just go buy the

        • Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

          You claim:
          >>Amazon sells products directly too. As the article fucking mentioned, the items being discussed were sold by Amazon directly

          The quote from the article says:
          This is what the article says: "In practice, Amazon has increasingly evolved like a flea market. It exercises limited oversight over items listed by millions of third-party sellers, many of them anonymous, many in China, some offering scant information."

          It is hard to really take any of your op

    • Parent comment: "... mess of a company..."

      It amazes me that the Amazon web site is such a MESS! There doesn't seem to be any normal management.

      One story: Jeff Bezos's $150 Billion Fortune Is a Policy Failure. [theatlantic.com]

      Jeff and MacKenzie Bezos are set to finalize their divorce this week-- here's what typically happens when billionaires break up. [businessinsider.com]

      I suppose it is difficult to be a billionaire. You can't have normal friendships. For example, many women want to have sex with a billionaire so they can have easy

    • Re:Fuck it, I'm switching to Costco (Score:5, Interesting)

      by grahamtriggs ( 572707 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:40AM (#59116334)

      Because they have a pretty comprehensive range of products, they mostly meet their promises, and they have decent customer service when things do go wrong. When you look at some of the retailer hacks, cart skimming, etc. they are a fairly low risk option for purchasing.

      All you have to do as a buyer is pay attention to who is listed as the seller - as long as it is Amazon, or is listed as Fulfilled by Amazon, you should be fine. If you are a Prime member, you can pretty much just restrict what you are looking for to things that are covered by Amazon Prime.

      If the seller isn't Amazon or using Amazon fulfilment, then you are taking a bit more of a risk about what they will deliver and the customer service. That said, at least you aren't taking the chance of putting your personal and credit card details into some random internet site.

      I don't make judgements about them as an employer, as there is more than one side to it. You might make a case that they can afford to do better, but ultimately, they employ people within the limits of the law - whatever they are doing legally, others can or will do given half an opportunity. If we think the practices are that bad, then we should be campaigning for changes to the law, not just the employer.

      It's a decent, reliable default shopping option. I view it that other (online) retailers need to provide a good enough reason to use them rather Amazon. If you don't have a critical analysis of the other options, you may just be rewarding the same or worse behaviour that you wish to punish Amazon for.

      • Well, there's a reason why I picked Costco over any other online retailer that I could've mentioned. Or even WalMart. Costco has a reputation for paying its workers a decent wage and trying to minimize turnover. The workers get benefits. There's a 15% markup on Costco products, and if their cost drops, the price drops with it. They also have good customer service and an excellent warranty system.

        Every complaint about Amazon I have is largely immaterial with Costco, the only downside being that I have to pay

        • If what I want is a) inherently expensive and b) available from costco then yeah, I'll get it at costco. Even if I don't have a membership at the time (as I don't now) I will go and get one in that case. I'll likely do that again soon in order to buy golf cart batteries there. They have a tendency to go above and beyond their return policy that makes me want to shop there. And yes, I have a friend who works there, and I know they really do treat employees well, so that makes me want to shop there too.

          On the

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by HiThere ( 15173 )

            The problem is, "How can you be sure what you get is what you ordered?", and the answer it "You can't.".

            Another story, about a month ago, detailed how even Amazon didn't track the origin of the stuff in the bins in their warehouses. (This may not be true for all of the items, of course.) So this guy bought something from Amazon that was "fulfilled by Amazon", and it turned out to be fake. And the response from the company was crickets.

            Now it's one thing if you're talking about paperback books, and it's a

      • Problem is that is not fine anymore (Score:5, Informative)

        by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:50AM (#59116380)

        All you have to do as a buyer is pay attention to who is listed as the seller - as long as it is Amazon, or is listed as Fulfilled by Amazon, you should be fine.

        Yeah I used to think that to, but read this [engadget.com].

        In particular, this bit:

        That same year, Apple filed a lawsuit against Mobile Star LLC for making counterfeit Apple chargers and cables and passing them off as authentic goods on Amazon. As part of the suit, Apple said it bought more than 100 Lightning cables and chargers marked as "Fulfilled by Amazon" over a period of nine months and that about 90 percent of those were fake.

        I think something like this happened to me with a cable that I thought was official but the one I got ended up seeming very crappy.

        • This happened to a friend; I had her order a Monoprice Blackbird (ultra cheap HDMI-to-analog-surround converter) but she insisted on ordering it off of Amazon. I"m quite certain it's a fake since it has a faulty design, complete with miswiring.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by lgw ( 121541 )

        This hasn't been true for a while now.

        "Fulfilled by Amazon" gets you protection from only the most blatant scams: where they don't ship you an item at all, or ship fraudulent item to arrive after the 30-day period where it's easy to complain.

        But there are plenty of counterfeit, or just really bad, items with Prime shipping. That just filters it to the bigger, more successful scammers.

        "Sold by Amazon" is better - there you get the same level of security that you would with any retailer, not perfect but pret

    • Why bother with ebay and Aliexpress? They are in all measures worse yet people still use them. While people still use those companies Amazon will continue to thrive.

      Chinese shit with overnight shipping. The great American dream.

    • Costco is great (and my preference), but they don't really have much in the way of variety, and they don't carry as much as Amazon does.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        This is a problem I occasionally face, but one can usually order direct from the manufacturer.

    • I don't bother with Amazon. About the only time I use them is if I'm in a bind about holiday gifts and I can't find the requested items anywhere else. It's a sleazy company, they still haven't figure out how to reduce packaging, they like to split orders into multiple shipments (more trucks on the road), they trick people into signing up for Prime ("would you like free delivery?"), and it's putting brick-and-mortar stores out of business.

      Though probably there's someone crying that Bezos got divorced and i

  • Lack of quality is losing customers (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @09:46AM (#59116116)

    I used to buy most things through Amazon. Even electronic gear.

    But more and more cables I get through there have been shoddy, and who knows if even "official" cables are not cheap clones.

    So I pretty much stopped buying cables from Amazon, going back to NewEgg and Cables2Go...

    Now I have a large set of hard drives to purchase soon. I was going to use Amazon as before.... but now I think not as I wonder if I can even trust them for drives.

    The problem Amazon has there is if I stop purchasing many more items I may seriously consider dropping Prime. Amazon has very little of interest video wise so why am I paying for prime if I hardly ship anything anymore?

  • Amazon: Outsourcing QA ... (Score:3)

    by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @09:49AM (#59116126)

    ... to the press.

  • "Safe" is relative (Score:4, Informative)

    by Chris453 ( 1092253 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @09:52AM (#59116142)
    The FDA also banned Kinder Eggs on the grounds that non edible items (the toys) cannot be enclosed in an edible item (chocolate). Some of these items are probably perfectly safe in other countries but just banned by our nanny state.

    Regardless, just order from Amazon or items from 3rd parties that are fulfilled by Amazon (Prime). Amazon's return policies are the best I have ever used.

  • Batteries (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Train0987 ( 1059246 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @09:54AM (#59116150)

    They could start with rechargeable batteries. Hundreds of listings exist right now for 18650's with capacities that don't even exist. Counterfeits or relabels can literally blow up in the user's face or burn their house down.

    • Clearly Jeff needs to experience the catastrophic disassembly of a Li-ON pack while testing his cheapest, shoddy Chinese -made Vibrating Buttplug.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by al0ha ( 1262684 )
      You have that right - not to mention power tools that are inherently unsafe. There is a reason that here in America we have Underwriters Laboratories; to make sure electronics sold to the consumer are safe. NOT 1 of the electronic power tools sold on Amazon which are direct from China have UL certifications. I know, I was dumb enough to purchase a power buffer for my car, nothing in the product text said made in China, but when I received it I quickly noticed no UL certification, and the damn thing worke
    • It's impossible to buy OEM phone batteries and chargers on Amazon and know with certainty you're getting the genuine article.

  • Big box retailers (Score:3)

    by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @09:55AM (#59116156) Homepage Journal

    Big box retailers had this problem too. The idea that there is oversight on all aspects of your life is laughable. Buyer beware: always.

    • Re:Big box retailers (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bluefoxlucid ( 723572 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @09:59AM (#59116180) Homepage Journal

      Walmart doesn't have a problem wherein you pull up a page for an electric blender and it has 200 five-star reviews...and then you read the reviews and they're for drinking straws, because the seller put up a cheap-and-always-good product for a few months and then gutted it and replaced the description to sell vendor trash.

      • Re:Big box retailers (Score:5, Informative)

        by timholman ( 71886 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:39AM (#59116324)

        Walmart doesn't have a problem wherein you pull up a page for an electric blender and it has 200 five-star reviews...and then you read the reviews and they're for drinking straws, because the seller put up a cheap-and-always-good product for a few months and then gutted it and replaced the description to sell vendor trash.

        And then when you post your own Amazon review pointing this out, Amazon removes it. They don't just enable the scammers, they defend them.

  • Sensationalist nonsense title (Score:4, Insightful)

    by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:00AM (#59116182)

    ooo, so 157 "bad" items found out of... 3 billion

    so what, I can go do any local department store and find "bad" items too. Not all of those "bad" items would even be "bad" by my definition since the near useless wankers in the pockets of various large corporations staff places such as the FDA.

    Here's a better title: "People have ceded control of their brains, to sensationalist media"

    • You're asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is how they selected their sample. If they randomly selected 6000 and got 4000 bad ones, then it doesn't really matter if there are a billion total items.

      • Wasn't random though, they picked items form categories for which the FDA covers.... millions of things on Amazon are from foreign countries and will never be reviewed by FDA nor should they. For example, you can buy natural soaps made traditional way in certain regions (without the chemicals U.S. companies use some of which are known to be harmful).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      Hmm...so have all those 3 billion been actually tested or have you created an strawman and then claimed to have slain him?

      • No, you miss the point. You go to a large department store, or a grocery store, and almost everything there WILL NOT have been tested by the FDA.

        Nothing unique to Amazon going on here. Some subset of people like to whine about Amazon here, for stupid reasons that also apply to many other large stores.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by q_e_t ( 5104099 )

          No, you miss the point. You go to a large department store, or a grocery store, and almost everything there WILL NOT have been tested by the FDA.

          Nothing unique to Amazon going on here. Some subset of people like to whine about Amazon here, for stupid reasons that also apply to many other large stores.

          I would hope nothing in a grocery store needs to be tested by the FDA.

    • Spotted the shill. Or the moron; it matters not which.

  • The Jungle (Score:3)

    by tungstencoil ( 1016227 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:05AM (#59116208)
    It's like Upton Sinclair all over again, isn't it?

    company policies require all products to comply with laws and regulations.

    Is this like when I'm required by a potential hookup online to disclose the size of my erect penis? I pinky-swear it's long and thick? Seriously, they "require" this by announcing to sellers they must do this.

    Should we apply this kind of policy enforcement to other things? Plane safety (oh, wait, we kind of did that recently, didn't we)? Pharmaceutical testing (er... nevermind)?

    There's a difference between passive enforcement of, say, copyright infringement on a video-sharing site and freaking consumer safety.

    • Is this like when I'm required by a potential hookup online to disclose the size of my erect penis?

      The sad fact - I hate to break it to you - is that they're going to find out one way or the other.

      • But, much like Amazon deliveries, once I'm at their house, in their bedroom, they're stuck with me...at least for the short term.

        I'll see myself out now, thanks for listening, enjoy the veal, tip your waitress.

    • Is this like when I'm required by a potential hookup online to disclose the size of my erect penis? I pinky-swear it's long and thick?

      Thats what Terrel Owens thought when using Skype.

  • read the NEGATIVE reviews... (Score:5, Informative)

    by racerex ( 5692964 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:12AM (#59116232)
    You REALLY have to be careful on Amazon, and read the NEGATIVE reviews if you're looking for an honest answer about a questionable item. I've learned the hard way - the first purchase after I decided to pull the trigger and sign up for Amazon Prime I got 100% ripped off by a seller. Ordered my item (which seemed like a steal for the price at the time) and 3 weeks goes by with nothing, no tracking, etc. I message the seller and get no response. Another week goes by and I start seeing all kinds of seller reviews saying do not buy from this person as they too had paid for items and not received them. I contacted Amazon and they told me I had to attempt to contact the seller first before they would do anything - I told them I did and they requested I do it again since I had started a claim and document things. Never mind the fact that there's now a month's worth of over people (over 60 at the time) reporting the same thing right on their site about this seller. I play ball and message the seller again... crickets after two more weeks. Finally two weeks after THAT I got Amazon to agree to refund my money.

    So, to sum things up my FIRST experience as a Prime member I have a problem and Amazon takes over two months to fix it.

    Now I really try and weed out fishy items because there are a TON of them on there among the many good ones.

    • Re:read the NEGATIVE reviews... (Score:4, Informative)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @11:44AM (#59116656)

      So, to sum things up my FIRST experience as a Prime member I have a problem and Amazon takes over two months to fix it.

      As unfortunate as this is, Amazon is actually quite well known for the returns and dispute resolution process. I'm not excusing what is going on here, that is actually inexcusable, but for the most part at least in the past they have been one of the better companies out there.

      I received a shoddy set of fuse taps that were not the size listed in the sale from the seller, A shipping label later provided by Amazon and it was like the mistake never happened.

    • That's not good. I can understand that you need to try to resolve things with third-party sellers, but it sounds like the process needs to be streamlined a bit. Even so, one of the reason I still shop at Amazon is that I always get very good service. Every single time I've contacted them, they quickly and painlessly have resolved whatever issue I've had.

      I agree that you do need to be careful. I vastly prefer buying Amazon products directly, or if not, I try to find products sold by the manufacturer them

    • One can make a decent amount of money by simply listing fake products one never intends to ship if one gets enough people to order. One gets the payments in and puts it into an interest bearing account, waits until the customers complain their product hasn't shipped, give a reply that they are researching the issue and then issue a refund. If one can keeps say $100,000 in an account with 2% APR compounded monthly and one earns $166 per month. if one were to do it over a year with an average of 10 products,

    • I remember that optimistic time when the wisdom of the crowds was going to lead us to a better world, free of control by experts and authorities. Remember when that crowd spontaneously figured out how to play Pong collectively [vimeo.com]? Amazon's business model was based on that idea: The wisdom of the crowds could provide knowledge about products better than any expert or authority could. Thousands of honest customer reviews would make the market work better.

      It worked for a little while. Unfortunately, when yo

  • The problem is even worse than described (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timholman ( 71886 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:35AM (#59116308)

    The problem isn't just that Amazon has allowed entire product categories to be overrun with cheap junk (primarily from fly-by-night Chinese suppliers), but that doing so has completely pushed out the good products.

    For example, you can't even buy a decent laptop or cell phone battery on Amazon anymore. Everything listed is under the names of dozens of different companies, but they're all selling the same low-cost, zero-quality items. It's like eBay, except with a nicer web page. Kid's toys, R/C models, electronic cables, cell phone cases .... it goes on and on. It's all crap that doesn't work or doesn't last.

    I would love to find a decent battery case for my smartphone, but it doesn't exist. I've looked. There are a dozen vendors with made-up names selling the same two pieces of trash, and nothing else.

    Amazon has let itself become another eBay, to the point where more and more I find myself shopping from the manufacturer's web site just to ensure I get something that isn't counterfeit, and will be worth the money paid. It won't be the cheapest item, but at least it will be something I won't throw in the trash bin a week later.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by iggymanz ( 596061 )

      Nonsense. Amazon also sells name brand things for many categories... if that's what you're looking for. There are plenty of people for which that's not what they're looking for.

      So you're shopping around, comparing, finding what you want elsewhere for those things you're interested in.

      That's good. Then there is no problem.

      Meanwhile, I sometimes find good deals on what I want on Amazon. Love that fast shipping I get with prime, totally worth it.

      Buyer beware.

      Especially for a store that resells or lists 3

      • Re:The problem is even worse than described (Score:4, Interesting)

        by liquid_schwartz ( 530085 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @11:06AM (#59116458)

        Nonsense. Amazon also sells name brand things for many categories... if that's what you're looking for.

        The trouble is that even things that are listed as being from a given manufacturer are often fake. Counterfeit products are a huge thing on Amazon. I ask myself do I care if this is fake before buying anything on Amazon. Some things, like a book or CD, could be fake but the product would effectively still be the same. Other items, like batteries or anything I might eat, I am hesitant to buy on Amazon and prefer more legitimate channels. That I describe Amazon as less than legitimate is telling.

      • Nonsense. Amazon also sells name brand things for many categories...

        Would that be selective stupidity on your part?? When we order those supposedly genuine items, likely as not we receive a fucking knockoff.

        Defending the likes of Amazon is tough enough as it is; you're not going to get very far being stupid about it: no "knives to gunfights" and all that. ;)

      • Nonsense. Amazon also sells name brand things for many categories... if that's what you're looking for.

        Of course it does. There will be one lovely name brand listing among 200 cheap Chinese fakes. Just like ebay.

        • I don't see that when I search for monitor or disk drive or... lotsa other stuff

          Unless you're going to claim the Dell, Sony, Samsung, etc. monitors that come up are "cheap chinese fake"?

          hint, no, they're not.

          Now whether most this stuff I'm seeing is a good deal... I think I could do better elsewhere for most. Some sales on though.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Uh huh, and this doesn't happen at your local big box or department store....

          nothing new

          And the percentage at amazon is lower than your locals, by the way.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Shotgun ( 30919 )

      It was a race to the bottom. Amazon made it there in record time.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • That at least with Best Buy, they will match the price on Amazon. No longer have to worry about package being stolen off the porch, and paying the same price. Yes, you have to find the right place that will do that. But, they are out there and locally to you if you look around.
    • I've started to use best Buy. I like that I can order something online and sometimes pick it up at the store a couple hours later. If not a couple hours later, then next day for sure. Compare that to Amazon's nearly a week before I even get a tracking number indicating it was shipped.

  • ..to know what the hell is going on.

    Go to Costco. On the one hand, their olive oil at one time was more accurately labeled than that at Williams-Sonoma. On the other hand, a lot of stuff at Costcois the same stuff at Amazon.

    • I have both a Costco and an Amazon membership. The first problem with Costco is you have to go to Costco. What a nightmare. The parking, traffic, checkout lines, and entitled folk pushing their carts around like they are 15th century royalty quickly get on your nerves. The second problem is the ridiculous quantities of most everything. I have a two person household. I can't buy any fruits, vegetables, dairy, etc. as there's no way I'll use them before they spoil. I sometimes buy meat and seafood, but

  • When I was looking to buy something, Amazon.com was always my first stop. No longer. Now I look around in a search engine to see what sites offer the product I want. Amazon.com is just not worth the risk anymore, especially for commodity products like batteries.

  • IMO, they have gotten too big and is relying too much on automating everything that should have a real person involved. Even some sellers are having problems with getting their Amazon stores taken over through deception. Maybe Amazon should drop all third party sellers and start from scratch making sure everything is on the "up and up"

  • Unless it's a used book, I buy nothing through Amazon 3rd party sellers. I wish they'd be like Sears.com and allow you to filter anyone but the main site out.

  • This is the only way to reliably shop on Amazon (aside from DYOR elsewhere).

    I skip right to the 1 or 2 star reviews to see if I can find a well written honest review.
    Sure, many are people bitching about delivery, or they can't get the product to work - but there's often a review that I can see is legit that'll make me think twice.

    This is after I got ripped off on a 'wavlink' product that had stellar reviews, that turned out to be a hunk of junk which I returned for a refund. I went back to look at those rev

    • This is after I got ripped off on a 'wavlink' product

      You have got to research these busted-ass "brands". I was looking at AIMS inverters until I found out how they were built inside... Speaking of solar crap, anyone tried SunnySky? epever?

  • Unless it's used books, I'll buy nothing from Amazon 3rd party sellers. I wish they were like Sears.com and you could filter out everyone except the main site.

  • "The Journal identified at least 157 items for sale that Amazon had said it banned, "

    157 items from 350 million is not that bad, it's less than 0.00% on my calculator.

  • Declared unsafe by federal agencies (Score:3)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @11:34AM (#59116604)

    That has been abused to the point of being meaningless. Most of the time, it's just thinly veiled market protection.

    I'll buy medications from across the border. Until I see Canadians dropping like flies. And if I want a Euro spec vehicle bumper, that's my business*. I can keep rare earth magnets and plastic bags away from infants myself. I don't need your help.

    *Because I'm going to be replacing it with a winch bumper/bull bar anyway.

  • it's competitors, such as Walmart.com are doing the same thing. Except, one can search for a product one needs, see it is listed as being available at Walmart, check out the website and find you can't actually get it at a Walmart store because it is sold by a third party.

  • The Phantom Product business model/scam (Score:5, Informative)

    by DaveV1.0 ( 203135 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:31PM (#59116922) Journal

    Let me tell you how this works.

    • Create a fake company or 10 (optional)
    • List a phantom product for sale as mail order (Amazon, Walmart.com, eBay) specifying free shipping 2-4 weeks
    • Take order payments, place in savings account.
    • Wait for customer to complain they haven't received their product. This can be anywhere from 1 month to never.
    • Respond "Please allow us to investigate".
    • 1-2 weeks later, respond "Product was lost in shipment. You will be receiving a full refund. Please allow 1-2 weeks for delivery.
    • Pay refund, keep the interest.

    If one can keep $1,000,000 in a savings account that pays 2% interest, one will make $20,000 per year. the $1,000,000 is not that hard to accomplish with multiple products that are valued at $200 and being sold for $100 each.

    This scam is similar to the "Free product/Money back if not completely satisfied, simply return the unused product" scam that works well with vitamins, herbal supplements, etc. In this scam one creates a fake product that is really just inexpensive inert substance (basically sugar pills) and charges shipping and handling that is twice the cost of the product plus shipping. If the product isn't returned, one makes a profit equal to cost of the product AND what ever the price was it was sold. If the product is returned, one makes a profit equal to the cost of the product plus the interest earned on the payment AND can repackage what was returned to send to new customers.

  • Online stores with marketplaces are shit (Score:4)

    by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:56PM (#59117520)

    TFA is a few years late. Many online stores have marketplaces that are little more than cesspools of fraud. Why or how the likes of Amazon are able to get away with this without being regulated into the stone age is beyond my understanding. Have you tried pointing out fraudulent items? Good luck getting them to take action. All they do is blow you off. They have a vested interest in not giving a shit and they are NOT shy about showing it.

    What I really find distasteful about all of this is users are never provided the option of permanently switching off market places. It's always a per-search thing that never sticks for more than a few fleeting moments...I remember on Amazon it was impossible to even tell the source of an item without clicking on it they ALL had some misleading label like "shipped by amazon". Amazon to this day is STILL "shipping" 1TB USB sticks for $20... what a f***ing steal!! How the heck are they even able to facilitate such blatant fraud?

  • Amazon used to sell stuff, not "fulfill" it. They were on the hook for sales & returns, warranties etc and by fulfilling now they're not. They just stuff items in a box and wash their hands of it. That means they save money and fuck you if you get sold counterfeit goods or inferior/shoddy products. Good luck jumping through the obstacle course that is their refund policy. It's all designed to put you off and maximize their bottom line.

  • Basically the same comment as on the vaping story modified to 113 comments. Obvious low-hanging fruit would have been some funny products.

  • I used to think store charging a markup where just scamming the public.

    Then I grew up.

    Now, I know that there purpose is to filter the manufacturers for me. Take tools, for example. When I need one, I have a host of local suppliers, and I know which one to go to depending on just what I need.

    Harbor Freight - cheap chinese junk. Go there if I only expect to use the tool once.
    Northern Tool - still cheap, but much better quality. Go there for a variety of serious tools.
    Lowes/Home Depot (they both have almo

  • I used to buy cheap GOT dvds from Amazon 3rd party stores, and fuck, DRM is Amazon's problem.
    Who cares, now I just pirate, arrr
    (where's yr bucken ears, on yr bucken ed)

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