Amazon Joins Walmart In Saying Tesla Solar Panels Caught Fire (bloomberg.com) 62
Earlier today, it was reported that Tesla is working to resolve the lawsuit Walmart filed against the company earlier this week over defective solar panels. However, this story is far from over as Amazon has chimed in by saying it too has seen its Tesla solar panels catch fire. Bloomberg reports: On Friday, Amazon.com Inc. said a June 2018 blaze on the roof of one of its warehouses in Redlands, California, involved a solar panel system that Tesla's SolarCity division had installed. The Seattle-based retail giant said by email that it has since taken steps to protect its facilities and has no plans to install more Tesla systems. Tesla didn't immediately respond to a request for comment, but said earlier on Friday that it had discovered flaws in a part that the company had used in some of its systems. The part known as a "connector," manufactured by Amphenol Corp., led to "failures and disconnections at a higher rate than our standards allow," Tesla said in an emailed statement. The company has worked to replace it.
If in doubt... (Score:3)
... blame the subcontractor, not your QA procedures?
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More like part supplier. And it is absolutely believable, this kind of shit happens every day, I have a few stories to tell as well about parts that seemed sound at first, but lead to failures after a while and there was no way do predict this.
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it's not even that. There are many thousands of PV fires every year, and SolarCity was the largest solar installer in the US. If the trend is now "dig up any fires related to SolarCity you can find over the past decade", this could go on for a while.
(I don't have current numbers for the US, but just to put it in perspective, in Italy alone, in 2012 (e.g. when solar installs were much less common), there were even then over 700 PV fires [sfpe.org])
For the record, Dana Hull (the author) is one of the leading Tesla FUD
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Oh, I forgot the other big one: Lora Kolodny. She's just as bad as the other three. I'd maybe even put her above Dana, although below Linette. Linette definitely tops the list.
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Apparently you think Mark is a woman's name?
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Probably wanted to summon you.
For the record, I consider Tesla way overrated, but this story belongs to the "meh, shit happens" bin.
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On the other hand, Tesla knows they have shitloads of Amphenol connectors out there that they deem dubious, and is choosing to address this in a very questionable way: scheduling services to look at them with thermal imaging to see if they're hot, and only then replacing them if there's a problem, in an attempt to conserve labor and costs.
My brother is not happy with the response at all. He has the dubious connectors on his roof, and Tesla will not be looking at it for weeks (a long time after Tesla has kn
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Atomic Energy is safer per watt-hour produced than Solar, Hydro and Wind.
Amphenol is a generally reputable brand (Score:2)
Amphenol is a historically old connector manufacturer. It's possible they screwed up but it's not likely they were picked because they overspeced and cheapenated their product.
Tesla is now the Ford Pinto of roofs.
Hey that's a hot looking roof you got there.
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Don't think anyone's ever rear-ended a roof.
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Yes, the XLR connectors in my sound system are all Amphenol and they are well regarded. More likely they were not spec'ed properly than it being a quality issue.
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Even reputable brands have fuckups every now and then.
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Put the blame where it belongs - on the bean counter that decided to pick a cheaper connector than what was suitable for the task.
Saving a few cents is the most common reason for things going bad.
Re:If in doubt... (Score:5, Insightful)
Paying more doesn't mean you get a more reliable part. "You get what you pay for" is a lie, although "you don't get what you don't pay for" usually holds true.
They chose the wrong supplier. Whether they had any information which should've allowed them to choose better is an open question. It's also possible their requirements were formulated wrongly which led to a bad requisition decision. But odds are the decision was not as simple as "we'll take whoever's cheapest without looking at any other info about the company." Only Walmart does that, which is why most of what they sell falls apart when you breathe on it.
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One thing to bear in mind, is that Chinese parts often follow the rule of "provide high quality parts for testing", then later on.. months later, swap out 'good' for 'cheaply made'. This is harder to do, for example, if you're in the US, and someone in the EU is buying parts. Being Western nations, with similar courts, court histories, and treaties.. we can easily sue one another.
For example, suing someone in the US, and then registering that decision in the UK, is relatively easy.
Now try to do that same
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Doubtful. Most of the parts were from Amphenol, a US company.
Re: If in doubt... (Score:1)
Doubtful. Most of the parts were from Amphenol, a US company.
It's a good thing no US companies outsource manufacturing to China.
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Paying more doesn't mean you get a more reliable part. "You get what you pay for" is a lie, although "you don't get what you don't pay for" usually holds true.
They chose the wrong supplier. Whether they had any information which should've allowed them to choose better is an open question. It's also possible their requirements were formulated wrongly which led to a bad requisition decision. But odds are the decision was not as simple as "we'll take whoever's cheapest without looking at any other info about the company." Only Walmart does that, which is why most of what they sell falls apart when you breathe on it.
When you choose a product (eg connector), you have to choose a connector that is weatherproof, and whose connection contacts do not corrode. Panels are in rain, some have snow and ice that penetrates the connector mating surfaces, and pops the connection apart. Other, dust and "cooking in the sun" affect/destroy the material holding the mating pins together.
Re:If in doubt... (Score:5, Informative)
Uh, Amphenol connectors are (in most cases) neither cheap nor unsuited. They're a well respected manufacturer.
I'd guess that the connector in question is their H4 (they have a couple of variants), a near copy of the Staubli MC-4 which is ubiquitous throughout the solar industry.
While Tesla seems to be blaming the connector, I'll wait for the facts to come out. The Staubli MC-4 is a proprietary design - specs aren't available. Yet, it's often closely copied via reverse engineering and the various copies are typically close enough that they will mate together. But when doing so the quality of the electrical connection is a crap shoot. The various copies also have their own methods of proper crimping/assembly - Amphenol uses a different crimping tool/die than Staubli.
When more comes out, my guess is we'll learn the cause was that installations mixed connectors from different manufacturers and/or used the wrong tools to install them. If there were issues with Amphenol solar connectors, I'd expect them to be seen elsewhere too, not just in Tesla installations.
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I'm more concerned that the purchaser did look in the price list and said that this connector is 25% cheaper than the other with identical measurements and purchasers don't have a clue about which materials that mix well and which that goes bad quickly when brought together.
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I'm not sure what kind of company you work for, but I've never found a purchaser who looked at the details of a plug design and then decided (or even had the authority to decide) to replace an item listed in a bill of materials.
Technical bid evaluation is a thing, but it's never up to the purchaser to make decisions on the technical part. A BOM change always requires an engineer sign-off.
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I'd worry that counterfeit parts were substituted at some point; even down to the installers themselves swapping out good ones for them self for cheap ones because "fuck it, it's wal-mart"
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I do work in the vehicle industry and there's often a fight with the purchasing department where they want to shave off a few cents by trying to change to substandard parts because they are cheaper and are almost good enough.
Amazon wants to buy Tesla? (Score:2)
That's a smart move if AMZN wants to buy TSLA: sue it to near bankruptcy then buy cheap.
Bezos is that rufless and ambitious.
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No one wants failing Tesla. There will be no massive lawsuits anyway, it is just a fire.
Re: Amazon wants to buy Tesla? (Score:3)
Amazon is behind everyone on self-driving tech. Becoming number 2 for $20B would make sense.
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Tesla isn't #2. GM is. Tesla is like #6 and is using a technology that won't work.
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Does a retailer and cloud hosting provider need to be involved in self-driving tech? Yes, they buy lots of delivery vehicles. They could buy self-driving vehicles from a vehicle manufacturer in the future.
time for a new slogan? (Score:3)
Tesla's solar division can now advertise with, "Energy? We'll give you more energy than you can handle!"
No? Oh.
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Tesla's solar division can now advertise with,
"Order now, and we'll include a free s'mores pack!"
"Bonus marshmallow toaster will show up for free!"
Nothing to see here! (Score:2)
And even if there was something, there's nothing that an OTA update won't fix.
To Mars, to Mars!
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Don't forget the Tesla robotaxi by 2020! I love living in the future.
Tesla should make a joint venture... (Score:3)
known as (Score:4, Funny)
>"The part known as a "connector," manufactured by Amphenol"
Wow, something called a "connector", that sounds so interesting. I haven't heard of one of those. I am writing this reply on something known as a "computer". [eye roll]
The writer couldn't just say "A connector manufactured by Amphenol"? Amphenol makes quality electrical connectors, has forever. Although we usually just called them "Amp".
So yeah, it is Amp's fault. Not how or where the connector it was installed, or what type or rating of connector that SolarCity selected....
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Who's this "we?"
AMP and Amphenol are completely different. The former is a division (brand? product line?) of TE Connectivity (NYSE: TEL). Amphenol (NYSE: APH) isn't related. Both make connectors.
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I pretty much forgot it after reading the article, but my first thought on reading was a similar "What the fuck is that in quotes for?" reaction.
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I am still confused, I think you need to quote more of your words.
Amazon's on fire (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe related to this (Score:5, Informative)
Dug around on interweb and found this:
https://www.ecmweb.com/fire-se... [ecmweb.com]
Amphenol UTX PV solar connector from 2017, microscopic cracks formed allowing water inside. My guess is the fire part comes from electrical breakdown in the connector due to contamination shorting the panels out and causing them to overheat and catch fire. So maybe the Tesla explanation stacks up. BTW, Amphenol are a well regarded connector manufacturer, so this just shows how difficult it is to make stuff survive in an outdoor environment for long periods of time (as any production engineer could tell you).
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Exactly correct. Current is probably in the 10 amps range, which doesn't seem like enough to cause much of a fire... but I've put in a few PV systems, and on one bright sunny day on one of my first systems I checked open-circuit voltage, around 380, okay, good.
But then decided to try a short-circuit test (legitimate test). Got the expected number, but when I pulled the meter probe away, I pulled an arc like I've never seen- many inches, just sizzling, arched upward. Scared me significantly. I had to sit
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I'm also curious if the people who think Amazon should be held responsible if third party sellers on the Amazon website sell you a defective or dangerous product, also feel Tesla should be held responsible for failures of Amphenol connectors i
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...this just shows how difficult it is to make stuff survive in an outdoor environment for long periods of time (as any production engineer could tell you).
Yes, even tech-savvy people tend to underrate the complexities involved in designing and manufacturing reliable electro-mechanical components such as switches, relays, and connectors. Accelerated ageing tests don't always accurately model real life. Material incompatibilities, chemical reactions between different plastics, plastics off-gassing and causing corrosion, chemicals used during electro-plating leaching out and causing corrosion, unexpected behaviours from extreme thermal cycling, un-noticed differ
The buck never stops (Score:2)
"connector," manufactured by Amphenol Corp., (Score:2)
AMP's that THAT market cornered for years -- I'm sorry, decades. I remember cursing at them in the 80's. I'm glad to hear they're keeping up with the high standards.
To be fair: they probably have more connectors out there than people on the Earth, so a 0.000001% failure still shows up. But still, if you're one of the lucky bazillionth percent....
because we didn't know that already (Score:2)
"The part known as a "connector," manufactured by Amphenol Corp."
The person who wrote the summary, known as its "author", presumes that the reader has never heard of connectors.
Amazon ... caught fire. (Score:1)
Companies: Stop using substandard materials! (Score:1)
This is where these problems start. They use glue where bolts should've been used, or insulation that is too thin for the kind of current the wires are carrying, stuff like that.
Even a USB cable can cause a house fire as I had one burn up near where it plugs into the phone. Very scary and nasty stuff.
Ah yes, that part... (Score:1)
The part known as a "connector"
How very specific and informative.
Amazon PPC (Score:1)