Faulty Tesla App Locked Some Owners Out of Their Cars For Hours (gizmodo.com) 144
Some Tesla owners who depended on the app to unlock their cars were left scrambling for their physical keys yesterday when the app went down for maintenance. Several users took to Twitter to pour out their agony. The Next Web first reported the news: Downdetector.com, a website that shows the status of various services, had many people reporting an outage for Tesla over the last couple of hours. According to the website, first outages were reported around 4.30AM ET. While Tesla's app helps you unlock the car, you can still use a key card, an option key fob, or the app without needing to connect to the internet. But some people who didn't have the key card or the fob, and were logged out of the app, had to wait at the time of reporting. A Tesla spokesperson confirmed to Gizmodo that Tesla's app was temporarily unavailable on Monday but full functionality was soon restored. Tweets suggest the app was down for around three hours at least.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
You only have to see the number of people who think a hackable IoT device to monitor their kids or unlock their house is a good idea to realise the number if idiotic geeks (as opposed to nerds or coders) there are out there.
Re: (Score:3)
The way I head it: This app is supposed to be the backup , in case you lose your keycard.
I guess Tesla is overestimating their customers' intelligence again. People relying 100% on something that could fall and break, leaving them stranded.
Re: (Score:2)
Good thing there's mechanical latches that allow egress within seconds and not needing electric power, just like any other car, right?
Re: (Score:2)
Where's the appy apps luddite troll when we need him?
Re:kinda dumb (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't take a genius to realize that you could stop your car somewhere that has no cell phone signal, and then you can't unlock or drive the car without the fob.
Indeed. How will those people who park their cars in garages unlock their cars? Oh wait, they thought about this. The fob works just fine without any cell signal at all using Bluetooth.
No one was locked out of their car, and despite the wisecracking of the typical Slashdot armchair geniuses, people actually do put thought into designing their products.
The only thing you need internet for is remote unlocking, it even says the app works fine without the internet right in the summary.
Why not read the summary at least? (Score:4, Informative)
Guess what the summary also said...
But some people who didn't have the key card or the fob, and were logged out of the app, had to wait at the time of reporting.
No one was locked out of their car...
However, Model 3 owners who don’t carry a key fob or key card, and don’t use the phone-as-key feature, and who only use the Tesla in-app lock and unlock feature that requires cell signals will be temporarily screwed when the app fails.
Your claim is false.
Re:Why not read the summary at least? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Wow, I’ve always used the analogy of natural consequences and burning your hand on the stove, but Ive never heard it worded so eloquently. The burned hand teaches best. Thanks for that!
Re: (Score:2)
The eloquent way is "the burned child fears the flame", which has the benefit of being both factually and grammatically correct. It is older than either of us and an avid reader ought to have discovered it before leaving grade school.
Re: (Score:2)
Definitely not factually correct. While most of the physical scars of my childhood have faded, some of the memories are still pretty vivid. Despite many burns, I never learned to fear fire. Aerosol cans exploding and flying out of bonfires leaving a flaming trail in their wake? I learned to fear those, but that's a special subset of flame.
Re: (Score:2)
Wow, I’ve always used the analogy of natural consequences and burning your hand on the stove, but Ive never heard it worded so eloquently. The burned hand teaches best. Thanks for that!
You know when you touch a hot stove, that reflex reaction to pull your hand away happens without any instruction from the brain.
Re: (Score:2)
and typically people generally only ever do it one time .. from then on they at least check first, distractions aside. Even repeat incidents where you get distracted and end up touching it, happen so fast you usually dont actually suffer any sort of burn. you felt the heat and flinched away before any real injury.
Another reflex reaction I was taught in boot camp was to always touch the door knobs with the back of your hand, because grasping can be a reflex reaction and make the injury worse, and in turn ren
Re: (Score:2)
There are no such people. In order to get the car to start moving, you need to have one of:
1. Fob.
2. Key card
3. Phone as Key.
So the people who are described as having none of these features cannot ever drive their car, therefore, one can conclude that they d
Re: (Score:2)
Yea, day 1 we realized the physical key cards in the wallets were the appropriate backup plan :)
(for the model S/X the key fob would take that place).
Re: (Score:2)
Why didn't they have their key? How many times have smartphones failed in other tasks? Put the fucking key card in with your driver's license and all problems are solved, since you should have your license with you when operating a motor vehicle on public roads, right?
Re: (Score:3)
It is not mandatory to carry your driving license in the UK. The police can look up your data on the spot or you can be asked to present documents to a police station within 7 days.
Re: (Score:2)
Or just don't log out of the app that you're relying on to drive your car. I mean, you already have to authenticate to your phone, why not trust that?
Re: (Score:2)
Probably a bad app design that forces validation of the auth token even when there's no connection. Lots of apps fail miserably when there's no Internet. My favorite RSS reader did not work offline at all as I found out - it is no longer my favorite.
Re: (Score:2)
In this case, Tesla's servers sent out bad data, which triggered an automatic log out of the App.
Re: (Score:2)
They can't get simple lock/unlock to work right at all times. can you imagine them trying to do "self-driving" cars?
Re: (Score:2)
The ones that deserve it ;)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It seems the app will get logged out in some condition. We've had a model 3 for a year or so, and I've had the app log me out about 3 times. However, I just carry the damn key card in my wallet, so even if I can't log back in for some reason, I just tap the card against the B-pillar and lay it on the center console and happily drive away.
It's almost like engineers thought of this scenario. Just like every other keyless entry car has a backup if the fob battery fails.
Re: (Score:2)
Because the Tesla app, at least on iOS, has serious problems in the way it does authentication. Mine logs me out fairly frequently, and the only way to get the password out of the system keychain is to tell it "Cancel" when it asks you to sign back in, ignore the dire warnings about lost data, and then sign in as if you had never run the app before.
What the app should do is:
Re: (Score:2)
Serious first world problems eh?
To bad they aren't fully autonomous. Damn, locked out of my car, guess now’s a good time to go have a few pints and watch a game somewhere.
Re: (Score:2)
More than that, there is a backup - the RFID card that you use to pair your phone in the first place. Put it in your god damn wallet next to your driver's license that you need to have when operating a motor vehicle and this doesn't happen.
Sounds a whole lot like operator error to me.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There is no correlation between money and intelligence, because we have created so many ways for stupid people to succeed through malicious behavior. So there can be plenty of stupid people driving Teslas.
Re: (Score:2)
and were logged out of the app, had to wait at the time of reporting
I'm sorry, but relying on an internet connected piece of software/hardware to operate a device that can easily end up somewhere with no internet access is just stupid.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that you could stop your car somewhere that has no cell phone signal, and then you can't unlock or drive the car without the fob.
Or they could run out of battery.
Or simply drop the phone and break it.
Tesla gives them three ways to open the car and they rely 100% on the most fallible one? First world problem.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed it never occurred to me to drive the car without the fob in my pocket. I'm aware I can open the car without the fob I did not know that I could drive it without the fob. I'm not sure I'll behave any differently now, I still have to carry at least my house keys anyway, I'm not sure why eliminating the fob helps me any.
Re: (Score:2)
I think this speaks to the reliance people have on technology that seems to work. For example, the "not-really-self-driving" features and now a cloud keyfob that works most of the time. It all works - until it doesn't.
I dislike carrying my keys with me. Heck, I even hate carrying my phone too. I have a Watch that doubles as a payment system - until I find a store that only takes Cash or credit-card only reader. But I can get really far with this new fangled technology and complacency sets in until
Re: (Score:2)
I think this speaks to the reliance people have on technology that seems to work
Believe me, it's harder to wait on technology that does. As much as I'd enjoy having smart this or automated that, I keep waiting until I see an ecosystem that all works together well (ideally with no vendor lock-in). And haven't bought a single thing as a result.
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed.
Keep your keys in your pocket, folks.
Despite what the big city folk would have you believe, there are still areas of the vast United States that have no/very poor cell signals, and therefore, no Internet.
That's also why I vacation in those areas. Sometimes, it's kinda nice to be disconnected.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not how it works. The "phone key" system works without an Internet connection after hit has been configured.
The problem in this case was that Tesla's servers were sending out bad data. Had there been no Internet service, the phone key would
spent money on battery (Score:2)
people who spent $80,000+ on an average sedan.
Technically if you look at the BOM, they mostly spent 80'000 USD on a very large Lithium battery, and recieved it with a complimentary average sedan bolted on it.
Actuallly, if you look at Tesla's cash flow: they are giving 80'000 to Tesla's crowdfunding for the construction of a mega-factory, and getting the battery-with-a-complimentary-sedan-on-top as perk for participating in the kickstarter.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
But learn to code?
That's hate speech. /sarcasm
Idiots (Score:2)
So, the only people locked out where those who not only did not have a key card, a key fob, but also had not logged into their app so they would need an internet connection to get into their car. That sounds like the most idiotic thing to complain about, do these people make sure they park somewhere where they have good cell reception in order to get into their car? What if their phone provider has an outage, e.g. in a case of emergency when they would really need to get in their car?
Jeez...
Re: (Score:2)
So, the only people locked out where those who not only did not have a key card, a key fob, but also had not logged into their app so they would need an internet connection to get into their car. That sounds like the most idiotic thing to complain about, do these people make sure they park somewhere where they have good cell reception in order to get into their car? What if their phone provider has an outage, e.g. in a case of emergency when they would really need to get in their car? Jeez...
Uh, "good" cell reception is hardly an argument here for those who own a Tesla. They're not buying second-hand service from some shit provider, and they also have to live within range of a Tesla charging station (also known as those densely populated areas of the country where they have plenty of cell service)
underground parking (Score:2)
in some parts of the world, underground parking a very common.
these almost always have cell-repeaters / pico-cells, but very often those only allow emergency numbers.
it is indeed very likely to have your car parked out of signal.
(so if you have car with app unlocking, better have the card as a fall-back, or at least have logged into the Bluetooth service before).
Re: (Score:2)
(so if you have car with app unlocking, better have the card as a fall-back, or at least have logged into the Bluetooth service before).
Why you'd expect to unlock your car solely with a device that you've never previously used to unlock the car, I have no idea.
Re: (Score:2)
They're not buying second-hand service from some shit provider,
Why all the FUD about MVNOs? They literally use the same towers as the first-tier providers.
Re: (Score:2)
and they also have to live within range of a Tesla charging station
No you don't. I charge at home or at work. I don't need to live near some branded charging station.
I have an S and an X and I often end up somewhere where the car doesn't have reception (examples being underground garages in Boston and parts of rural Maine). If I had the 3 I would never go out without the key card (in fact, I'd have gotten the optional fob). As the subject says, anyone who was "locked out" was an idiot.
Re: (Score:2)
Such people don't exist, because without one of the key card, fob, or phone-as-key, you cannot start the car.
In any case, phone-as-key does not
What a weird world we live in (Score:5, Interesting)
where we need an internet connection to a server thousands of miles away, owned by a third party, to open a door our own door right in front of us - or operate the house's thermostat, or turn on a light bulb or the coffee machine... I'm totally puzzled by people accepting the way IoT devices work as acceptable. Maybe I'm getting old, but it seems to me the stupidity of it all defies basic common sense.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm totally puzzled by people accepting the way IoT devices work as acceptable.
What is unacceptable about it? Idiot users exist. The kinds of people who don't have fobs, don't have internet, and log themselves out of the app purposely eliminating the multiple redundant fallback mechanisms in place are the same ones who lock their keys into their trunk, or forget them in their apartment when closing the door.
Why wouldn't you accept something that has many redundant fallback mechanisms but nonetheless provide you an increased level of flexibility when you *choose* to use it?
Job opening in Tesla customer relations (Score:2)
So all of this is solely the customer's fault, that they were not prepared with the provided backups?
And this is not the result of normally functioning persons with lapses in preparation, such as forgetting their fob at home, but rather, customers who are at the very low end of the scale in mental function, i.e. idiots (IQ of 0-25)?
I suppose automobiles are becoming more and more software products with every aspect of the software experience, including being scolded as a user of a consumer product?
Re: (Score:2)
If you drive any BMW produced in the last 13 years and the battery in the key fob is discharged, wouldn't the driver be kind of an idiot if he didn't have the mechanical key backup to still get entry to the car? There is a mechanical key cylinder in the door handle for a reason.
Tesla provided two RFID cards to use as keys should you not have your phone, or something has gone amiss with the phone app / bluetooth connection. You tap the card against the B-pillar and it unlocks the door. How is this any dif
Re: (Score:2)
So all of this is solely the customer's fault, that they were not prepared with the provided backups?
Almost, but not quite.
It's the customer's fault for relying on a fragile backup method rather than one of the two main options, leaving the main options at home, and having the backup get disabled during an outage of the backup service, where if it had not been disabled it would have worked despite the backup service outage.
The users have a key fob, a key card, and an app that doesn't need a cell phone signal, but does need to be logged into while there is one. (And while the app servers are up and running,
Re: (Score:2)
Not quite. As some point, Tesla's servers sent out bad data, which caused the app to auto-logout.
Re: (Score:2)
The younger 80s hacker in me would be dreaming up all kinds of prankster shit to do with all these single-point-of-failure devices. How much computing power does this shit really need? I like automation, but i don't like an offsite control of it. Why cant I have my own rudimentary AI that can do all that shit on my isolated LAN so long as I have electricity at my house? Does this shit _really_ need Watson?? Even if i do have to read Tale of Two cities aloud to train speech recognition, like back in the ear
RTFA (Score:2)
Except you don't. The key fobs work just fine and don't need an internet connection. Some idiots weren't carrying them and were locked out.
Re: (Score:2)
I know they do.
What I was saying was, a remote server owned by the car manufacturer that is capable of unlocking your car over the internet - be it at your command or because of a bug, or at the whim of someone working at/with/against Tesla - is a ridiculous feature and a revolting idea that would have been laughed out of existence only 20 years ago. Even only as an optional way of unlocking the car. The fact that this seems to be the new normal for almost any everyday object boggles the mind.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, because none of these exist:
GM OnStar
BMW Assist
Audi Connect
Mercedes MBrace
AcuraLink / HondaLink
FordPass
Chrysler / Dodge / Jeep / Fiat UConnect
Infiniti InTouch
Lexus Enform / Toyota Entune
Jaguar / Land Rover / Range Rover InControl
VW CarNet
Hyundai BlueLink
Yeah, basically every auto manufacturer has this, and has for years. Why are you puzzled specifically by Tesla having it?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
That might be how shitty IoT devices work. Good ones turn into just a standard version of the device they are replacing when absent a connection.
A Tesla Model 3 can still be unlocked with the RFID key card, completely absent an internet connection or smartphone, and the driver is an idiot if they don't keep the key handy. Just like any other keyless entry system has a backup key to allow you to get into the car if the battery in the fob dies, and the driver is an idiot if they don't keep the key handy.
A "
Re: (Score:2)
Same with the app - you only need to have successfully authenticated to it once, so long as you don't instruct it to forget you. Which apparently some people did, and then got surprised when it failed to work perfectly? People are stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
where we need an internet connection to a server thousands of miles away, owned by a third party, to open a door our own door right in front of us
The thing is that you don't actually "need" that. It's an option, but in my experience the slowest and least reliable option. The fob works just fine. There are a few corner cases where having the app might get you out of trouble, but these are edge cases that probably would not have been noticed inside the window we're talking about, certainly not by very many.
Re: (Score:2)
Only stupid people "need" that. Even half-intelligent people realize that the thermostats have manual controls on them, the car has an RFID fob, and there are fallbacks for just about everything. Even smart light bulbs can be rebooted by just turning the actual lamp physically on and off.
This is why Tesla will fail (Score:2)
There are certain “service levels” that are just not easily fixed with technology. I was in the market for an X, but between the ipad interface and all the “power” accessories it was very off putting. If you could rip the drivetrain out and put it in a real car, it would be a much more compelling product.
Re: (Score:2)
If you could rip the drivetrain out and put it in a real car
A real car like the current BMW series 5 which also supports bluetooth and internet based unlocking? Is that real enough for you?
Re: (Score:2)
If you could rip the drivetrain out and put it in a real car
A real car like the current BMW series 5 which also supports bluetooth and internet based unlocking? Is that real enough for you?
The only reality one must accept when owning a BMW is the reality of it breaking down and the cost to repair it. That alone makes a Tesla look like a bargain.
Re: (Score:2)
The only reality one must accept when owning a BMW is the reality of it breaking down and the cost to repair it.
That, and the fact that owning a BMW apparently activates a person's "I'm an asshole driver" gene.
I used to think the "BMW = Asshole" thing was a joke, but fuck me if nearly every BMW I see on the road isn't being driven by someone who doesn't give a shit about speed limits, turn-only lanes, red lights, HOV lanes, proper merging, etc etc.
Owning a BMW also seems to erase the part of the brain that lets you remember how to operate a turn signal.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
What's the difference between a BWM and a porcupine?
The Porcupine has the pricks on the outside.
It's funny 'cuz it's true.
If I had mod points, they'd be yours.
Re:This is why Tesla will fail (Score:4, Insightful)
Sit in and drive a beemer, then look at the Tesla again. Doors, radio knobs, dials, etc...
A car should be a car first, and Tesla forgot that. Too much focus on “experiences” and not enough on things that involve actually driving a car.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Oh no (Score:2)
Tesla owner here - little sympathy (Score:4, Insightful)
It's nice to have the app's ability to unlock. But relying on it as your sole measure? That's nuts.
The infamous Cloud (Score:2)
Those who view the infamous "cloud" as is pure, white, and perfect are the kind of people who look at a $500 designer toilet and assume the same thing.
In both cases, shit happens.
Re: (Score:2)
Or as I like to put it: Confucius say, "use cloud, get rained on."
No problem at all (Score:2)
If only there was a safeguard (Score:2)
From Tesla's website:
Note: A paired Phone Key uses Bluetooth frequencies instead of a network connection to communicate with your Model 3. This means that if you’re parked in an underground parking garage with no cell signal on either your phone or your car, you can still lock, unlock, and start your vehicle without issue.
I get the feeling there is going to be a giant ass banner on the app that says to turn your bluetooth on if you are having problems connecting with the servers going forward.
Re: (Score:2)
From the sounds of things, the problem here wasn't that Bluetooth was disabled. It was that you needed tohave been logged in to use the app, and people who weren't already logged into the app couldn't log in to the app. While it seems that you don't need an internet connection for the app to work over Bluetooth (i.e. the app can use an authentication token it previously pulled down when it had a connection), best security/software practices would suggest that if a user chooses to log out for whatever reason
Car (Score:2)
Computer + car = computer [amazon.com]
In defense of the "locked out" folks.... (Score:5, Informative)
I, too, drive a Tesla. And yeah, I always keep my keyfob with me, because I don't see the point in relying on my phone just to unlock my door or allow me to start my vehicle. As long as I've been driving, I had to carry some kind of physical key for it -- so I don't treat the Tesla any differently.
Still? The more important question here is reliability of Tesla's back end servers and infrastructure.
These cars are supposed to be constantly "tethered" to Tesla's systems via their LTE cellular connection. (Even when you do things in the car like listening to streaming radio, it does all of that via a VPN tunnel it establishes with Tesla.)
That means, there really are some concerns if Tesla doesn't have a good back end in place with plenty of bandwidth and hot failover capabilities for downed servers, etc. I don't know what they're really doing over there these days? I've read a few Reddit posts with some info from former Tesla employees who sounded disgruntled and complained of some really haphazard coding practices, and seat of the pants Q&A. But to be fair, most of that would have been from no later than maybe the 2014-15 time frame or so? They've had some time to improve all of that, but they've also sold a LOT more vehicles, especially with all the Model 3's on the road now. So they had a need to scale things up considerably too.
There has been an ongoing issue where the ability to schedule service appointments via the phone app comes and goes for people. And as long as I've owned my Model X, the mytesla.com page offers a link to a PDF document with vehicle specifications that only opens an empty 2 page long document. I had a problem for a while on my vehicle where any time its computer was rebooted/reset, it would go back to factory defaults. My GPS location would show the Tesla factory location in Fremont, CA as my "Home", and all of my preferences were wiped out in the settings, etc. They finally fixed it with one of the software updates, but it took a lot of digging to learn what was really going on. It was all due to a long standing bug where they store your settings in a drive partition that they were failing to mount correctly if it developed any errors or corruption in it, and it wasn't able to run a disk repair on it automatically if it got into that state. Since mine did, I was stuck with no ability to save settings. Things like that do make me question them .....
Hilarious (Score:2)
I can't be the only one who finds this hilarious.
"I can't drive my car because the app is down."
Re: (Score:2)
More accurately:
"I can't drive my car because I'm an idiot and didn't bring the key, choosing instead to rely on a chain of single points of failure including an application that requires a network connection to log into, which runs on an unreliable smartphone, connected on an unreliable network connection offered with no guarantee of service from a telco operator that literally cannot be paid to give a shit about anything but if the bill gets paid."
Every single person with this "problem" has a key card / f
People are stupid: Not News (Score:2)
How did this article even get submitted, let alone approved for posting?
Re: (Score:2)
because Tesla.
Odd that we don't get these articles when HondaLink has some kind of brief outage.
The app and the car work just as well offline! (Score:3)
Everybody is answering like you'd need internet access to unlock each time which clearly isn't the case (and would be immediately obvious as many underground parkings are completely without any kind of mobile coverage).
The problem was if you needed to authenticate in the app (like for example you reinstalled it or changed phones or whatever and just then the service was down. With enough users sure it would happen to some but it's not the huge disaster everybody makes it to be.
Open the pod bay doors Hal (Score:2)
DAVE: Open the pod bay doors, Hal.
HAL: I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.
DAVE: What’s the problem?
HAL: l think you know what the problem is just as well as l do.
DAVE: What are you talking about, Hal?
HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
DAVE: I don’t know what you're talking about, Hal.
HAL: l know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I’m afraid that's something I can’t allow to happen.
DAVE: Where
'Keyless' doesn't make sense to me at all (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm waiting for gangs with equipment to interfere with GPS/LTE and blind the lidar sensors. Now you just flatbed that car away and part it out. Same goes for big rigs. Force them off the road and raid the contents. No drivers to get in the way and no assault charges. Easy pickings.
Re: (Score:2)
So what are you going to do when they switch to starlink? Gonna fly a jamming drone between them and the satellites?
It will work once or twice, but eventually they'll use drone flyover to watch the roads.
Re: (Score:2)
Hijack them in tunnels.
Re: (Score:2)
Tunnels have wired surveillance cameras in them already.
Re: (Score:2)
Satellite signals are pretty weak. A few watts of broadband noise is all you need.
Re: (Score:2)
They're directional. If jamming becomes a problem they'll make them shielded.
I think it's doable briefly, I just think that it's an arms race. And if necessary, they'll put armed guards onboard.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
That's not how this works.
The vehicle is capable of self driving without an internet connection. That's why it has so much hardware on board. What it can't do without one is find out about traffic conditions ahead. Or probably find a new destination.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not even remotely how autopilot works.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is probably why every Tesla also has a key card or key fob. Stupid users, it turns out, are stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
It does. However, it cannot authorize a user when offline, just like any other service.
The >99% of users that already had an authorization token stored on their phone continued to operate without knowing anything was amiss. The people effected by this that had the key card in their wallet may have shrugged or sighed, and then unlocked and drove their car anyway. But tens of people that are stupid and didn't have the actual key for their car were shit-out-of-luck for a few hours. Just like any other k