Home Builders Ditch Nest After Google Ties Devices To Digital Assistant (bloomberg.com) 46
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Several residential builders have stopped buying and installing Google's Nest devices after the internet giant overhauled how Nest technology works with other gadgets. The Alphabet Inc. unit bought Nest in 2014 for $3.2 billion to enter the so-called smart-home market. Nest has become one of the largest makers of internet-connected thermostats, smoke alarms and locks. The devices were popular with builders who saw a Nest gadget as a way to increase the value of properties. But earlier this year, that began to change as Google exerted more control over Nest and started changing the underlying technology. As a more independent business, Nest developed software that helped its gadgets communicate with a wide range of products from other manufacturers, through accounts set up directly by users.
As of the end of August this year, however, consumers need a Google account -- and access to the company's voice-based Google Assistant service -- to integrate new Nest products with other devices in their homes. The move may help the internet giant weave its Google Assistant deeper into people's lives. But for builders it's just a pain because Nest devices no longer work so well with the other gadgets they install in homes, such as audio and entertainment systems, and alarms and other security gear. It's also a less enticing user proposition with all the privacy permissions that Google Assistant requires. That's spurred some builders -- who collectively purchase tens of thousands of Nest devices each year -- to avoid Nest products.
As of the end of August this year, however, consumers need a Google account -- and access to the company's voice-based Google Assistant service -- to integrate new Nest products with other devices in their homes. The move may help the internet giant weave its Google Assistant deeper into people's lives. But for builders it's just a pain because Nest devices no longer work so well with the other gadgets they install in homes, such as audio and entertainment systems, and alarms and other security gear. It's also a less enticing user proposition with all the privacy permissions that Google Assistant requires. That's spurred some builders -- who collectively purchase tens of thousands of Nest devices each year -- to avoid Nest products.
Nest camera prices are changing, too (Score:5, Interesting)
Aside from devaluing "works with Nest", Google Nest just also bizarrely announced that they were simplifying pricing in 2020, and will now have event-based recording that captures only when there is motion, and a more expensive continuous recording plan. The big sell to people with many cams is now they will pay one price for all of them. But the downside to people with only one camera is that right now you can get 5 days of continuous recording for $50/yr, and in 2020 the cheapest plan with continuous recording looks like it will be $120, which is more than double the current pricing. Annoyingly, many people use Nest cams specifically because it's continuous recording.
Either their product people don't think things through or they just don't care.
Google has become poorly managed? (Score:3)
It seems to me that Google has become, in recent years, poorly managed.
Re:Google has become poorly managed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Google has become poorly managed? (Score:1)
It usually doesn't work out well for companies when they take this attitude. The Google assistant crap in my phone is what annoys me about it. I keep turning it off and they keep trying to get me to turn it on again. Good thing I have options like the librem purism phone for when I get completely fed up.
Re:Google has become poorly managed? (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems like 'marketable information' is gradually getting less and less valuable, as ad-supported web sites have to add more and more (and more obtrusive) advertising just to break even. After all, how many times does Google need to confirm that I'm in my 50s, married, a bit of a technophile, generally liberal, etc. Unless there's some major change in my life all their research is just reconfirming information that they've had for most of two decades.
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It's true that people who are not tech-savvy appreciate the easy setup and integration that's made possible by sending all the information through central servers.
But just about anybody with any sense of digital security sees that this arrangement is, precisely, a gigantic hole in personal security.
I have personally recommended for at least 2 years that people do not use any home automation products from Google or Alphabet. Including Nest.
But some other brands' product lin
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Google's business model is NOT selling hardware, it is selling your personal data.
Actually it seems to be selling ads based on your personal data. If you want to target slashdot users, Google will deliver, if you want a list of slashdot users, you have to go somewhere else such as Facebook.
Re:Nest camera prices are changing, too (Score:4, Insightful)
If anyone (besides me) read the Google Home privacy policy, they wouldn't let ANYTHING that requires a Google account into their house. I have a bunch of smoke detectors and a couple of cameras, and the minute they REQUIRE a Google account (instead of being optional like it is now for those devices), they'll all go onto eBAY for some sucker to buy.
Nest wasn't evil; Google is.
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See my earlier comment. There are ways to do it. And there is a private label "Alexa"-type device being marketed now that does not "call home".
Voice recognition and everything else are local.
Of course you can have it access a website, if you want, but you're in control.
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Annoyingly, many people use Nest cams specifically because it's continuous recording.
Either their product people don't think things through or they just don't care.
Not only that, that was one of their selling points! Maybe they should concentrate on speeding up their incredibly slow (I think it's written in Applesoft Basic) iOS app.
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Either their product people don't think things through
People are always befuddled how companies continue to make money and default to a company not thinking things through. You don't just get some dude arbitrarily decide that the price is now higher. This is almost definitely part of a corporate strategy to separate more users from their dollars.
Can't Blame Them (Score:2)
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Ironically the Google Assistant home control ecosystem relies on everyone trusting Google to connect to all their non-Google device accounts.
Guess it's a one-way street.
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Went with Honeywell (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Went with Honeywell (Score:4, Insightful)
My thermostat has no WiFi. So it does not care if WiFi works or not.
Re:Went with Honeywell (Score:5, Funny)
The thermostat in our office is a total bad boy. It doesn't seem to care about the temperature and all the girls are always fighting over it.
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My thermostat has WiFi and is Cloud controlled. It also does not care if WiFi works or not, and will happily keep doing what it was setup to do even without any connection to the outside world. I fail to see your point.
None of these smart devices actually depend on an always on connection.
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Honeywell makes a number of good thermostats, including a line of wifi compatible units that don'T require hookup with Redlink.
The problem with the Nest unit is its attempt to break into the market without widespread acceptance within the industry, ie., marketing through HVAC companies. Sold primarily to homeowners, it was manufactured to work with or without a 24v common present at the t-stat, so that it could be universally installed without technical expertise, using robber voltage on an unused command c
Re: Went with Honeywell (Score:1)
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Plus WiFi only so no heating outages because someoneâ(TM)s server crashed... Which actually happened to Nest users last year.
Not at all. The Nest does not rely on servers for controlling heating. What happened was a software update pushed through by Google caused Nests to not trickle charge properly and several months after the update they ran flat and stopped heating. The same problem could very much exist for Honeywell smart thermostats too since they also have the option of applying a software update, but admittedly the user needs to do this, whereas on the Nest updates are applied automagically.
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Note to self: Don't buy a thermostat that has a mechanism to apply firmware updates.
Good (Score:2)
Greed is asymptotic ... (Score:2)
... and data collection is the only real business model that will feed that monster.
Wow. Really!? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Yes but you are unique. The world has well and truly voted with it's wallets and people in the broadest sense don't give a crap about privacy and will happily pay for toys.
I have a Nest at home (from the pre-Google days). When someone came over (post Google acquisition) they were still "wow, cool, where can I buy one, was it hard to install, drool drool drool).
Never underestimate the value people put in gadgets.
Nobody wanted this (Score:3)
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No, consumers will probably just gobble it up and not think twice. By and large, Google and Apple and Microsoft set the example for them on what is acceptable risk. I wish it was not this way, but it is.
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I hope you're right...
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I think that's where Amazon was smart. Things **can** talk to Alexa (apparently it's incredibly easy to write to, and over 5,000 devices already communicate with the Echo) but they don't **have** to. If down the road someone has a better interface all of the current Alexa-integrated devices can change to the new player, which Amazon can then either buy or partner with.
Just Wait... (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would anyone buy IoT devices glued to a specific ecosystem or walled garden?? It defeats the entire benefit of IoT and just becomes GoT or AoT (Google of Things or Apple of Things).
Because if you WANT to do IoT for the home, you may not have much choice. Google and Apple have either been buying up or pushing out competitors, and one of their selling points is " We're a simple, friendly one-stop shop for integration and security". Business loves "Industry Standard". In a few years, when you go buy new home appliances or HVAC systems or security systems, you'll be hard pressed to find an IoT devices that ISN'T either Apple or Google aligned.
Just wait until governments (my bet is California will be the first) mandate that all new homes be built with "industry standard" IoT systems, giving governments or designated corporate authorities ( like utilities) the ability to, say, change your thermostat against your will. And report to Big Brother when you try to turn it back up again.
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Why would anyone buy smartphones or smartwatches glued to a specific ecosystem or walled garden?
This doesn't seem so puzzling to me. Nearly every desirable device is tied to a specific ecosystem: Google, Apple, Amazon, or Facebook. How is this any different?
Re: Nobody wanted this (Score:2)
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Well you'd better tell Google about that, they don't seem to realize the significance of the name.
Your question wasn't about the name though. It was about why people would want to use a walled ecosystem. The truth is, people seem OK with it.
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Why would anyone buy IoT devices glued to a specific ecosystem or walled garden??
RTFA, they weren't, another company came and built a wall around them.
Here we are (Score:5, Informative)
This, right here, is why I am a skeptic of all of these cloudy IOT things. It doesn't matter if you think the manufacturer isn't like all the others. If the device makes it possible, the deal will eventually be altered. Perhaps the manufacturer will go to the dark side or perhaps they get bought out later by someone who will. The only defense is to avoid anything that phones home or in any way depends on their network resources.
It can be hard to completely avoid any such connections these days. At least make sure that you control when it updates, make sure it can be rooted, and make sure the features you care about will still work if the device is cut off from their servers.
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This.
As an excited, new homeowner, one of the first things I bought was a Nest. A few months later, Google bought them out. I had just gotten done moving away from Google for search, e-mail, calendars, contacts, etc., so being tied back to them in such a personal way was a blow. Even worse was to see Nest go from being the scrappy underdog who was constantly pushing the envelope by regularly releasing new hardware and software updates to resting on their laurels and doing virtually nothing for the next five
They broke IFTTT (Score:2)
They broke IFTTT, so I am replacing my Nest thermostat with an Ecobee when it stops being remote operable based on real time electricity pricing. So they sold me on a device with great functionality, then removed the functionality. They did walk that back, but the cost of walking it back is that I can't add any future integration or improve my electricity price responsive system any more. So that's out.
I recently added a Nest doorbell, because the continuous recording feature is what I wanted. I just read *
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This sounds a lot like Sony's removal of OtherOS support from the PS3. Can't wait to see the multi-billion $$ class action suit against Google for their removal of IFTTT and unfair business practice of locking in customers to their ecosystem by removing advertised/known capabilities on products through "updates" after purchase.
This is why no one should buy Stadia (Score:1)
Ecobee works with all (Score:3)
I bought an Ecobee precisely because there's no lock-in... Works with "Apple Homekit, Amazon Alexa, Samsung SmartThings, IFTTT and more."
Nest shutdown of it’s developer api, Bye bye (Score:1)
I got 2 nests and hooked them up to my standalone HomeAssistant server. I controlled when to shift to away based on my sensors. That’s all I really wanted. Once they shutdown the api, I couldn’t do this anymore. I will be getting rid of the nests, (gifts? I have the boxes...) and I’m current researching for a ZWave thermostat. F**K Google