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Vandal Who Keyed A Tesla Discovers That It Filmed Him (electrek.co) 174

For the third time, someone who vandalized a Tesla discovered that the car's "Sentry Mode" had filmed them -- and after the video went viral online, decided to turn themselves in.

An anonymous reader quotes Electrek: The 20-year-old said that he was frustrated after a car cut him off and he thought the Model 3 might have been the same car. The Edmonton man said that he saw the video online and "became overcome with disappointment and embarrassment." He added that he doesn't have anything against Tesla and he regretted doing it right away...

Earlier this month, we reported on the case of Alan Tweedie's Tesla Model 3 being keyed badly by a woman for seemingly no reason while he was at his daughter's soccer game. The Tesla Sentry mode video of her keying the car went viral and she ended up turning herself in. There was also another similar incident involving two men who ended up turning themselves in earlier this year and now this new incident in Canada becomes the third example of vandals turning themselves in because of Sentry mode.

While Tesla Sentry Mode is useful to capture those incidents and pressure the vandals, the hope is that the feature gets publicized enough that people become less inclined to vandalize Tesla vehicles in the first place.

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Vandal Who Keyed A Tesla Discovers That It Filmed Him

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  • Illegal (Score:2, Interesting)

    by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

    A note to EU owners who own a Tesla: using this is illegal. You would need to put up signs warning people that you have CCTV wherever you park, and take steps to block the camera's view of anything other than your car.

    • Re: Illegal (Score:3, Insightful)

      by PopeFaggo ( 6170928 )
      Thus confirming how batshit insane you all are.
    • Are there laws against photographing or recording someone in public? Seems odd for this to run afoul of regulations.

      I’m also not familiar with this Tesla feature. Is it always recording or only when someone gets close to the vehicle?
      • Re:Illegal (Score:5, Interesting)

        by TheGratefulNet ( 143330 ) on Sunday October 20, 2019 @11:54AM (#59328054)

        1) you have to enable it (locally on the UI or via remote car 'app')
        2) there has to be enough fat32 storage (and high enough speed) and there has to be a creatable and writable toplevel TeslaCam (iirc) folder.
        3) it records based on motion changes and you get a 'preroll' saved when a trigger happens (along with several seconds of video after, I forget how long, but its fairly long)

        limits and bugs: when the car goes to sleep, it unmounts the disk harshly and the clean bit is not set or cleared. they don't (or didn't) do a graceful unmount. next time the car wakes up and tries to mount, it fails and does NOT do sentry mode.

        odd workaround: a raspi zero (usb host mode) simulates storage and renames files out of the way when done so that the top folder and 'device' is always clean and ready. quite clever, actually, as a user workaround. too bad its still a bug, last time I checked (v10 sw on model 3)

        • 2) there has to be enough fat32 storage (and high enough speed) and there has to be a creatable and writable toplevel TeslaCam (iirc) folder.

          It doesn't need to be FAT32. I use ext4.

          limits and bugs: when the car goes to sleep, it unmounts the disk harshly and the clean bit is not set or cleared. they don't (or didn't) do a graceful unmount. next time the car wakes up and tries to mount, it fails and does NOT do sentry mode.

          I haven't seen this behaviour.

      • Re:Illegal (Score:5, Informative)

        by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Sunday October 20, 2019 @11:55AM (#59328060) Journal
        There are rules, but they aren't as clear cut as GP suggests. Here in NL, CCTV cams around your house have to film "as little as possible" of the public road, but if it cannot be avoided without making the camera useless, then it is allowed but the footage will be subject to privacy rules. That means you have to put up a sign, and strictly manage access and retention.

        In principle, you cannot post footage from security cameras or dashcams without permission from the people shown in the footage. In practise, it is sufficient to blur out faces and number plates of any wrongdoers... you don't have to blur everyone unless they later contact you and ask for that.

        So: using this is not illegal. Posting it without blurring the culprit is... but in most cases nothing will come of it unless the culprit comes forward and you ingore their demands for the video to be taken down.
        • by LubosD ( 909058 )

          Posting it without blurring the culprit is...

          It used to be the same here in CZ until 2018, when the Office for Personal Data Protection decided it will no longer issue fines for this. Personally, I applaud the move.

        • So: using this is not illegal. Posting it without blurring the culprit is...

          Ok, I can understand blurring out the faces, plates of the innocent.

          But WTF do you have to blur out the face and identifying info of the culprit/criminal that you are catching outright in the act of committing the offense??

          That makes NO SENSE whatsoever...is this really a thing or did you have a typo there?

          • did you have a typo there?

            Nope. In fact if you don't blur them and they get caught later, a judge may hand down a much lower sentence because the perp "has already been publicly punished". For this reason, when the police themselves post footage of a crime in action and ask for witnesses to come forward "if you have seen this person", the perps will hilariously often be blurred out as well... I kid you not.

            Our judges are a little nutty in certain areas like this. But at least they are all equally nutty, so justice here tends

          • the face and identifying info of the culprit/criminal that you are catching outright in the act of committing the offense??

            Who appointed you judge, jury and executioner?

            The State wants to reserve that power for itself. If you try to challenge the State's monopoly on exercising power, the State will "have words" with you, which you might not survive.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            In Europe the courts decide on the punishment for criminals, not the victim or vigilantes who happen to capture their crimes on video.

            If you disagree with the court's punishment you can appeal to the court, but you can't set up a pillory and have people throw rotten food at the perpetrator.

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • So: using this is not illegal. Posting it without blurring the culprit is... but in most cases nothing will come of it unless the culprit comes forward and you ingore their demands for the video to be taken down.

          It is illegal if you don't put up warning signs..

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It depends how you photograph them. If you are taking pictures specifically of them then data protection rules come in to play and you are subject to them. If they just happen to be in the background when you take a photo of a building or something then it's fine.

        With CCTV if it captures anything off your own property then you have to inform people that you are capturing video. You also have to take steps to protect their privacy, such as making sure the camera can't see into private areas like through thei

        • by Cederic ( 9623 )

          . If you are taking pictures specifically of them then data protection rules come in to play and you are subject to them.

          That is not the case in the UK.

          It is though a still emerging area of the law and you will easily find a barrister willing to make themselves even richer by pursuing a case on your behalf.

    • A note to EU owners who own a Tesla: using this is illegal.

      Which is absolutely fucking hilarious in the UK, because it's one of the most camera-surveilled nations on the planet. At least you can power all those cameras on the heat energy alone from Orwell's spinning bones.

      • They will cease to be a EU member sooner or later anyway.

    • by LubosD ( 909058 )
      I suppose it depends on the specific EU member state laws. I've read the laws in my country and they don't seem to be that strict.
      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Here are the guidelines for UK domestic CCTV: https://ico.org.uk/your-data-m... [ico.org.uk]

        Since your car will be recording people in public, not on your own property, you need to comply with the GDPR and relevant UK data protection rules. That includes signage and obligations to take care of the data and process GDPR requests. You should have a policy available on request that explains the justification for capturing the video, how it is used and how long it is stored for.

        Because the car just saves the video to a flas

        • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          More simply, you can do pretty much what you want for security, but you should not keep the data unless you have a legal reason to do so ie exposed a crime. Any device should delete data automatically, after anything from 7 to 30 days, clearly it was written with this intent, though they obfuscated it, so mug punters would be less inclined to bother but commercial premises would be free to do what they are already doing. So car security cam trigger by any bump or close presence, fine, record away but delete

    • by Rei ( 128717 )

      You would need to put up signs warning people that you have CCTV wherever you park

      You mean like this? [wp.com] :)

    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      I would say check your legal jurisdiction. Here in Norway, which is not part of the EU but has signed all the data protection directives it's legal because a car is not considered a fixed installation and sentry mode is event-based and not a continuous recording. However, that only applies specifically to the recording and storing of the video. If you're using it to establishing a personally identifiable register like people coming and going that's illegal. If you're publishing the video with identifiable p

    • You sir are mistaken .It is not illegal in the EU, it is illegal in some member states. Read the local laws regarding recording in public.There are places like Germany where this would be illegal (but still admissible in a court). There are places like the Netherlands where it is legal to have a dashcam running like this (but having a fixed stationary camera recording the public road is illegal).

    • In a public place, such as street parking? I think not. It's not filming the environment at large, it's recording the area immediately around the car which is your property.

    • It is illegal to key a car too

    • What are you talking about ? Nothing of the sort.
    • No it's not. It's in a legal grey zone in some countries, but there's nothing in the EU that bans you from having surveillance systems for your vehicle in any public area.

      • there's nothing in the EU that bans you from having surveillance systems for your vehicle in any public area.

        There's nothing to prevent you from having whatever surveillence systems you want in any PRIVATE area - assuming you have permission of the owner (and in many countries you'd also need the individual permissions of people entering the property). But in general, in PUBLIC areas, you're going to run into problems.

        If you happent ot park your car near a school, then there's a pretty high chance of you g

  • Good (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nnet ( 20306 ) on Sunday October 20, 2019 @11:57AM (#59328066) Journal
    Couldn't happen to nicer folks.

    Keep your hands to yourself. Don't touch others things unless you ask first. Simple respect.
    • I just don't get some people.

      Aside from the one example that was carryover from road rage (getting cut off)....what possesses people to just damage cars and other items that are nice?

      Is it jealousy?

      If so...why? Just because someone has a nice, expensive car and you don't, why does that make you want to damage their nice car? Wouldn't you rather be inspired to work harder, etc so YOU could get one of those if that's what you want?

      This isn't exactly new with Teslas, only the built in cameras capturing th

      • by Rei ( 128717 )

        It's not just three examples. Sentry Mode has caught dozens of people. Some people have even started making clip compilations of them [youtube.com].

        Why do people do it? Beats me. Some people have problems. I hope the presence of cameras like this starts making people think twice about doing this sort of stuff. If not, maybe they'll have to make the "Keep Summer Safe" [cleantechnica.com] voice command be more like the original [youtube.com].

        • Yeah, we should set up surveillance cameras everywhere to stop bad behavior. My guess is this wasn't a Tesla you Musk acolytes would be apathetic or completely against surveillance cameras in cars. What a cult!

      • People have keyed Porsches and other nice $$ cars forever it seems, and I've just never understood that mentality. How has someone owning a nice thing harmed you?

        Most of the time with stuff like this, “people” means “young guys”. A lot of young guys do things which, if they thought about it even slightly, they’d realize they’d be better off not doing.

        • Most of the time with stuff like this, âoepeopleâ means âoeyoung guysâ. A lot of young guys do things which, if they thought about it even slightly, theyâ(TM)d realize theyâ(TM)d be better off not doing.

          In the past, I think I'd largely agree with you, but these days, I think females are making this a much more equal opportunity offender thing.....

          One of the first Tesla keying videos I was was of a lady and she didn't just casually drag a key lightly down the side of the car,

          • by Cederic ( 9623 )

            I'm not sure it is 'these days'. I think it's just more apparent now.

            Eventually the justice system may even catch up.

        • Neighbors and family members of all genders engage in this kind of expensive but not life threatening destruction.

      • Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Sunday October 20, 2019 @03:26PM (#59328608)

        Not to defend car keying scum, but resentment against the rich and their conspicuous consumption isn't exactly new. When things get bad enough, people lose their heads.

        Incidentally, US income inequality is greater than it was in revolutionary France.

        • Incidentally, US income inequality is greater than it was in revolutionary France.

          Except for pockets the whole of Manhattan is ripe for some pitchfork action.

        • B-but, median income is up!
          • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

            It ain't the median income earners who trundle out The National Razor. It's the 50% below them. But the medians join in because do you really want to get an extra close shave to stick up for some rich dicks?

        • by Tom ( 822 )

          Incidentally, it isn't income that's the main problem.

          It's wealth. Even poor Americans still own enough (and thus could lose enough) that they don't see the point of a revolution.

          When it reaches the point where are large percentage of people own nothing, then heads will roll. We're heading that way, but not there, yet. This time those in power are smart enough to actually give us cake to eat.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Not defending car keying either, but one of the most common ways cars are damaged here is door dinging. The spaces are often very small and cars are getting bigger, especially SUVs. Teslas are pretty wide too.

          As this sort of thing becomes more common I can see claims of door dinging becoming pretty common.

      • I just don't get some people.
        Aside from the one example that was carryover from road rage (getting cut off)....what possesses people to just damage cars and other items that are nice?

        A friend of mine once keyed a car just off 6th street in Austin in an adjacent angled space because the driver parked right on the line (like two feet away from their curb on the other side, the spaces on that street are/were in isolated pairs) and then actually turned the steering wheel all the way over so that their wheel/tire was preventing the passenger door from being opened. We were parked all the way over to our side, too. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

  • I don't buy it. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Sunday October 20, 2019 @12:09PM (#59328100)

    I don't buy for a second that either he "immediately regretted it" and I highly suspect that this isn't the first time he's keyed a car. This guy deserves everything that's coming to him.

  • The electric cars have so much of battery power, they can implement features that are nearly impossible to replicate in gasoline cars. The 75 kWh battery of the Model 3 can power an average home [eia.gov] for a couple of days! Running three or four cameras, and a proximity detector for extended period of time is impossible with the puny 12 v battery used in most automobiles.

    BEVs can run their A/C even when parked in closed spaces without emitting carbon monoxide for extended periods of time. Not possible in ICEV.

    • Sentry mode is not one of those features, though. An average car battery is 12V, say 100 amp hours, so 1200 watt-hours. A camera recording to solid-state storage uses about a watt, so 4W for four of them. An ICE's car battery could run a set of spycams in sentry mode for 300 hours, or over two weeks. Definitely for a day before it shuts it down to protect battery charge.
      • by ELCouz ( 1338259 )
        I've never seen an 100 Ah battery in cars. Most average 50-60 Ah if you calculate from Reserve Capacity ratings.... so it's even worse!
        • 60 amp-hours would still run a set of cameras for a day with no issues.
          • by ELCouz ( 1338259 )
            I think you are misunderstanding the difference between regular SLI battery vs a deep-discharge one. Car battery use are mainly for starting. They are designed to give maximum cranking amps at the expense of deep cycling and Ah reduction. Life for a SLI bat is around 150-200 cycle at 30% DoD. Not much to do with only 18 Ah available (30% of 60 Ah) before killing even more the battery. Close to 90% DoD will kill the battery in less than 15 cycles. It's doable with only 60 Ah but only if car manufacturers equ
            • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              I think you overestimate how much power a couple of cameras use, particularly when they're operating as sentries.

              If the trickle discharge actually was a concern, the manufacturer could stick in a small auxiliary lithium ion battery.

              Having kilowatts of battery power available does let you do some interesting things. Running a few cameras isn't one of them.

      • In reality, you leave a door ajar or wipers running or the dome light left on over night drains the battery. In theory you make calculations to should it could be done.
    • What are you talking about? You can buy plenty of security cameras for your car. They don't require anything else but a rechargeable battery in the system.

      • Do they have proximity sensors outside the shell of the car? Or are they simple motion sensors of the car? Do they have plans to upload the footage to a server so that the intruder can not destroy the storage device?

        BTW you are slipping. Not up to your old games. You still have not found my postings claiming "I paid 50K" and "I paid 55K" for my tesla proving what a bad liar I am. Also you used to have some thing about me not having an account in teslamotorsclub.com proves I am not really a Tesla owner.

        Wo

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        I've looked into this recently. The current best available dashcams with parking mode use about 1.3W in that mode. That's with low frame rate and a motion sensor for triggering, it's much higher if they do image processing for triggering.

        Anyway, that's per camera. So for a system like Tesla's that can capture from 4 cameras (front, back, both sides) to cover door dings and keying you are looking at about 5.2W average.

        Let's say you get a 10,000mAh battery of the type widely available. You will experience abo

  • by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Sunday October 20, 2019 @12:22PM (#59328142)

    Six years ago I bought a Korean-made dash cam and mounted it in my Ford Escape. It has both forward and rearward cameras.

    It doesn't go to sleep. Whenever it is parked and its motion sensor gets triggered I get some high-def footage of what is going on in its view. It would have caught these vandals even though it doesn't have the visibility of the side cameras that a M3 has.

    So why is this a Tesla issue? Any car can have a dash cam. This "Sentry Mode" is absolutely nothing new.

    • Tesla owners think everything that Musk puts out is novel and unique.

      • by MikeDataLink ( 536925 ) on Sunday October 20, 2019 @12:45PM (#59328174) Homepage Journal

        Tesla owners think everything that Musk puts out is novel and unique.

        Nope. It just happens Elon does it from the factory and and on your car its aftermarket only. In addition to that it was a software update using existing hardware, an idea a customer submitted. Let's see your car do that.

        • Almost... you still need an extra USB disk for the data.

      • Err, I mean Microsoft fans?

      • Hey! do you still have the postings that you copy and paste from? The ones that "prove" I am not a Tesla owner because someone thinks I dont have an account with teslamotorsclub.com ? And also the ones about me claiming to have paid 55K in one post and 50K in another post for my Tesla?

        FunnyTesla hateboi like you call everyone in sight a fanboi

    • You are right, having a dashcam isn't new. What is a Tesla thing is that when I bought my model 3 there was no dashcam or Sentry mode. Then one day I got an over-the-air update and BOOM, I suddenly did have a dashcam and Sentry mode, and it integrates with the car sound system to play an alarm if there is a break-in, and it sends a message to my phone, and it was free. How many other car manufacturers IMPROVE their the product for free after purchase?

      • ... when I bought my model 3 there was no dashcam.... Then one day I got an over-the-air update and BOOM, I suddenly did have a dashcam ...

        How did you get new hardware over-the-air? I assume the cam was there when you bought it. So it was just inactive? Did Telsla disclose the cam prior to purchase?

        • All Model 3 cars come with 8 cameras which, along with the forward radar and 12 ultrasonic sensors, are used for the autopilot. When I bought the car the only the backup camera was directly viewable, and none of them could be recorded. They added Dashcam and Sentry mode as new software features that record video onto a USB drive.

    • Any car can have a dash cam. This "Sentry Mode" is absolutely nothing new.

      So which of them have dashcams as a standard feature? Which of them record a 360 degree view rather than just the front and back?

      When you fail to answer these questions you'll know why it's a Telsa issue. The fact that you bolted a clearly inferior in coverage aftermarket product to your car is irrelevant.

    • Sentry mode has proximity sensors. Keying a car might not trigger motion sensors.

      It does not do it now, but Tesla has said it is going to upload the recorded clips through LTE to its servers. It will keep them for three days. Thus if the thief breaks and grabs the recorded media, it can still be available to the owner.

      BTW there are thousands of after market devices for cars. But when something is made standard equipment for the first time, it is significant.

    • Whenever it is parked and its motion sensor gets triggered I get some high-def footage of what is going on in its view. It would have caught these vandals even though it doesn't have the visibility of the side cameras that a M3 has.

      No. It would not. It might have caught some video of the people keying the cars when they were in front or behind your car, but it would be trivially easy for them to argue that they just walked past. That assumes that your dashcam would have been triggered by the very slight mo

      • by vux984 ( 928602 )

        At least half the cars I've been in have the CLA powered when the car is off.

        And pretty much anything security / safety related is wired to a hot connection; so there are lots to tie into. (Alarms system, interior lights, etc, keyless entry system), or just run a wire right to the battery.

    • You've said it yourself.

      The way your camera is positioned, it would only give you circumstantial evidence that someone keyed your car, not direct evidence that someone did.

      My own GM car has additional fish eye cameras located on the rearview mirrors to help with the 360-top view, so it could capture such incidents, but just like with your car, it doesn't give me access to its builtin cameras when the car is off, so I've had to purchase my own dashcam system aftermarket also.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Would it have caught these people? Even the Tesla system isn't 100% reliable at catching them.

      For a start you need coverage of the sides of the car. Front and read cameras don't cover the door areas so won't capture this kind of damage, or the more common accidental door ding.

      The other issue is getting their licence plate so you can pursue them for your losses. The Tesla system doesn't always get it either, as it records 10 minutes after the event but if they take longer than that to drive away it probably

  • Never having knowingly seen a Tesla, where are the cameras situated? In the bumpers? In the light fittings? In the wing-mirror nacelles? That's going to have a lot of influence on their range of vision.
    • by nbvb ( 32836 ) on Sunday October 20, 2019 @08:08PM (#59329226) Journal

      ... yes. To pretty much all of the above.

      Forward facing, 3 cameras, all above the rear view mirror. Wide angle(35 degree), main (50 degree) and fisheye (150 degree) focus points.

      Then two side cameras in the B pillars. (80 degree)

      Two rear facing cameras under the side view mirrors. (60 degree)

      One in the rear trunk lid. (140 degree)

      And then, one in the cabin above the rear view mirror - still not in use.

      Plenty of coverage ....

  • Good News: There's recording equipment to help protect your Tesla from vandals and it's being made public knowledge in hopes of preventing more incidents.

    Bad News: It's an unmarked, public video recording system that may break laws in some places. Also, people who plan to vandalize those cars will simply mask their appearance since they know there are recording devices installed.

    I wonder if the self-admitted vandals got lesser punishments because they turned themselves in?

    Someone could conceivably sue for t

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