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Transportation Technology

Tesla's European Gigafactory Will Be Built In Berlin (techcrunch.com) 101

Posted by BeauHD from the hand-picked dept.
Tesla's European gigafactory will be built in the Berlin area, Elon Musk said Tuesday during an awards ceremony in Germany. TechCrunch reports: Musk was onstage to receive a Golden Steering Wheel Award given by BILD. "There's not enough time tonight to tell all the details," Musk said during an onstage interview with Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess. "But it's in the Berlin area, and it's near the new airport." Tesla is also going to create an engineering and design center in Berlin because "I think Berlin has some of the best art in the world," Musk said.

Diess thanked Musk while onstage for "pushing us" toward electrification. Diess later said that Musk and Telsa are demonstrating that moving toward electrification works. "I don't think Germany is that far behind," Musk said when asked about why German automakers were behind in electric vehicles. He later added that some of the best cars in the world are made in Germany. "Everyone knows that German engineering is outstanding and that's part of the reason we're locating our Gigafactory Europe in Germany," Musk said. On Twitter, Musk said the Berlin-based gigafactory "Will build batteries, powertrains & vehicles, starting with Model Y."
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Tesla's European Gigafactory Will Be Built In Berlin More

Tesla's European Gigafactory Will Be Built In Berlin

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  • I hear there's going to be a former Adidas factory [slashdot.org] available soon.

  • BER Airport never finished (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stooo ( 2202012 ) on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @06:59PM (#59408444) Homepage

    The GF4 will open before the BER !
    Talk about a head start !

    • They can build the factory at the airport. They're not using it for anything else.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      At least Germany didn't try to leave the EU. Musk said clearly that brexit ruled the UK out for the new factory.

      In comparison failing to build an airport on time is a relatively minor cock-up.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sd4f ( 1891894 )

        I'm not basing it on any evidence, but I suspect that the real decision is how much of a special deal Tesla gets for opening the factory there, special tax rates, special deals, kickbacks, whatever. Part of Tesla's image is that they're seen as a green environmentally friendly. I'm not sure how lithium battery production can be considered green and environmentally friendly organisation, and politicians will certainly love being photographed cutting ribbons when the site opens. Meanwhile, the Germans also ha

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The EU has rules against state aid, including those kinds of kickbacks and special tax rates. You may remember that the Irish government was required to collect billions in back taxes from Apple because they gave them illegal state aid through tax breaks.

          The principal of a level playing field is a pillar of the EU's single market.

          • I also remember that over the space of 2 years, Ireland first refused, then dragged its heels, then appealed, and last I heard Apple cut them a cheque to stop the EU from dragging the Irish government through the courts which is sitting in a special account while they figure out how to give apple this money back without falling foul of the EU's meddling in the Irish economy. If Tesla are getting nothing out of this deal, then why Berlin? All that's happened is the sweetheart deal is not a scandal yet. No do

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              Maybe Berlin is just the best place to build Tesla cars in the EU. There doesn't have to be a bribe, it could just be a good business decision.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by sd4f ( 1891894 )
              I tend to think that the electric car is a disruption to the automotive industry, similar to the quartz watch was to clock and watch making. It has the potential to simplify and cheapen the engineering of an automobile to such an extent, that competitors can come in and completely change the industry, after all, the number of subsystems in regular cars are predominantly there to serve the powertrain and emissions controls. Just about all of that goes away in an EV, with substantially reduced complexity in a

            • If Tesla are getting nothing out of this deal, then why Berlin?
              There is no deal. Why the funk would there need to be a deal to set up a factory?

              Why Berlin is easy: biggest city in Germany. Several universities, huge work force, still affordable housing prices, and generally low cost of living. Unlike other cities Berlin is not a monolithic block of concrete but a spider net of settlements, water and wildlife. There is endless space to set up a factory. Most everything is nicely connected by public transport

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by sd4f ( 1891894 )
                The automotive seems to run on government subsidies. It's such a large industry in any country that it operates, that everywhere you go, that lever is pulled in order to suck more taxpayer dollars, take Australia for example; the government didn't buckle to increase its subsidies so the car manufacturers left, three of them in about 2 years. There's something in it for Musk/Tesla, they don't just go around and look for the best place to build cars, there's heaps of wheeling and dealing behind closed doors w

                • Sorry, to spoil your bubble,
                  There are no "deals" in Europe.

                  For what funking reason one would need a deal? Which side would need a deal? You simply buy the land and build a factory. Thats it.

                  Yes, there is something in for Tesla/Musk: well educated work force, low cost of living, low costs for housing.

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by sd4f ( 1891894 )
                    So subsidies have absolutely nothing to do with it? The increase in subsidies by the German government are just a coincidence?

        • I'm not basing it on any evidence, but I suspect that the real decision is how much of a special deal Tesla gets for opening the factory there, special tax rates,
          Germany does not have special deals on tax rates like in the US.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by sd4f ( 1891894 )
            I may have a bridge to sell you...

            • Really?
              Where is it?
              How much?
              Does it have pillars big enough to have a condo inside?

              What actually did you mean by selling me a bridge is beyond me ...

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by sd4f ( 1891894 )
                It's a figure of speech to indirectly suggest that you are gullible. There's plenty of references, you can find descriptions in a variety of websites, including urban dictionary and wiktionary.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        I would think Germany being in the middle of the EU, rather than at one end or the other had more to do with it. Many of the Germany auto companies have made the jump toward all electric and that means they need lots and lots of batteries but where is the new slick reclining two seater roadster with external battery packs and a single front powered swing up door. Tilt up to embark and disembark and slow speed and recline all the way down for high speed, the entire vehicle.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The UK used to attract a decent amount of car manufacturing. Nissan, Honda and BMW all built plants here, for example. Yeah, BMW, a Germany company, has a plant in the UK. They ship parts over and ship cars back.

          • Yes, they build the Mini there, which is a British car. They also own the Rolls Royce car company.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              The Mini isn't very British these days. It's all BMW hardware.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Thud457 ( 234763 )

                yadda yadda, Minis are no longer proper "British" motorcars

                can confirm, we've had ours more than a year and yet not one electrical gremlin or oil leak.
                Although Apple CarPlay is intrusive, balky and counter-intuitive enough to give you a digital facsimile of the authentic British motorcar experience.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

                  Bodywork still okay? See the great thing about British motors is that even though the electrics may short out and the engine go up in smoke you can just stamp your foot through the floor and push along Flintstones style.

  • ... should local politicians turn out to not pledge enough subsidies. I am starting to take this serious no sooner than when the construction has actually begun.

  • You can thank the USA... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    You can thank the USA for getting Tesla off the ground with the outrageous government subsidies. Now that Tesla is almost toilet trained, sporting it's pull-ups, and is pretending to be a grown-up company, countries like China and Germany will get the jobs that should have stayed in the USA.

    I am sure, like most of the Millennials, once Tesla graduates and realizes that it cannot compete in the free market, it will be back to live in the USA's basement, smoke pot, and pretend to look for jobs.

    • You can thank the USA for getting Tesla off the ground with the outrageous government subsidies. Now that Tesla is almost toilet trained, sporting it's pull-ups, and is pretending to be a grown-up company, countries like China and Germany will get the jobs that should have stayed in the USA.

      I am sure, like most of the Millennials, once Tesla graduates and realizes that it cannot compete in the free market, it will be back to live in the USA's basement, smoke pot, and pretend to look for jobs.

      Actually what is most likely to happen, is that someone else will buy them and use the brand name to sell their own cars. I know this because there is over 100 years of automotive history to learn from.

  • Since German automakers won't make EVs... (Score:5, Informative)

    by mspohr ( 589790 ) on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @07:33PM (#59408570)

    German automakers have been caught flat-footed with pathetic EV offerings. Only VW shows signs of life and they are only doing it because the US fined them billions over "dieselgate".
    Tesla can show them how to make EVs.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by vipvop ( 34876 )

      Except the Taycan is a better can than a Model S in every way

      • Part of VW. There is hope despite the late start

      • Re:Since German automakers won't make EVs... (Score:5, Informative)

        by colonslash ( 544210 ) on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @08:33PM (#59408728)
        > Except the Taycan is a better can than a Model S in every way

        The Model S (vs Taycan Turbo S) has better range (365 vs 288 miles), more horsepower (762 vs 616), arguably better controls, Autopilot vs none, a much lower price ($99,900 vs $187,610), better cargo space, and better interior space.

        Source: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/porsche-taycan-turbo-4s-tesla-model-s-performance-comparison/

        • Goddamn I just can't get over how they called it the taycan TURBO S. Turbo! Electric car! Gaaah!

          Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't buy one just because I'd feel like such a tool driving around in a car with turbo in the name and address electric drivetrain.

          • They had TURBO decals left over from the 80's.

          • "Turbo" just means "goes fast" in the consumer's mind. I agree it's a horrible deformation of language. Just like when they chose the poorly-named "autopilot" feature. Makes people think the car drives itself even though AKCHULLY more resembles an airline autopilot. Yes it's technically correct but how many people out there can fly an airplane and know how its autopilot works?

          • Tell me about it. In the 90s I used to pay computer games at higher than normal speed because I couldn't bring myself to press three turbo button on my pc because I too am unable to cope with words having multiple meanings.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by vipvop ( 34876 )

          now talk to someone who's driven both

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          You don't buy a Porsche because it's the best performing or best value for money. You buy it because it's a fun toy and status symbol, which by all accounts the Taycan is.

          Different market segments really. The Taycan is probably more of a competitor for the new Tesla Roadster than for the Model S.

          • You don't buy a Porsche because it's the best performing or best value for money. You buy it because it's a fun toy and status symbol, which by all accounts the Taycan is.

            So is the Tesla, to most people. The availability of the Model 3 is watering that down a bit, but not much. The only thing I really don't like about my Model S is the fact that it gets too much attention on the road -- even though it's a base model and a few years old, so wasn't particularly expensive. I don't want to be seen as a "flashy car guy", but I often am.

            Different market segments really. The Taycan is probably more of a competitor for the new Tesla Roadster than for the Model S.

            If that's true, then it's going to be utterly trounced by the Roadster, likely in every single measurable category.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              I wonder about the Model 3, especially if they deliver on their robotaxi plan next year. They won't, they are years away from that, but say they did and Model 3s became the most common type of taxi. It would be like driving a black London cab or a yellow New York taxi.

              Musk said on Twitter that a Model 3 would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars once they got robotaxi working, but I have a feeling it will be the exact opposite.

        • The points you mention are all secondary. The main point can be any of these: handling, status, handling, or whether it says Porsche on the outside. That last one might be just Porsche, or "Hey Porsche owner, can you catch me?" on a sticker on the back of a Tesla...

      • The Taycan looks like a great performance car. It handles better and that is the essence of a sports car to me. That said, I'd rather have my 3 year old Model S. Why? Because the Taycan wouldn't work as a daily driver. The lower ground clearance of the Taycan means I'd be scraping the bottom too often, while the S is high enough for normal use, plus I can raise it with air suspension. The S has much more interior space, plenty of room for the kids and luggage. Even my 3 year old S has better range th

    • Which is really weird. Making cars is very highly competitive, there's just so damned many car makers around. And EVs cost less to maintain, less to fuel, and less to build except for the battery. As soon as a cheap enough, long lasting enough battery comes out new gas cars are dead, even the most braindead customers would choose a $20k EV that can go 250 miles over a gas car that can do that when fueling the trip is a fourth the cost in the EV and they don't have to worry about oil changes.

      It's like a l

      • BMW and VW both sell more EVs than Tesla in the EU, by a lot and for quite some time.
        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Europe#Top_selling_plug-in_models

      • R&D cost vs licensing..

        maybe it's cheaper to just license the tech once it comes of age, than to try to build it yourself? And given one of the biggest hurdles to mass adoption is charging stations, it's in tesla's interest to push for as many ev's that use their charging standards as possible, even if it's a VW using it vs a Tesla.

        Side note, how long does patent protection last in the EU?

        • Teslas sold in Europe come with a standard European charging plug. Everybody is using the same standards locally.

        • Side note, how long does patent protection last in the EU?
          Most countries have patent agreements, that means the original filing country determines how long it lasts.
          In other words: you don't file for a patent in EU, you show the papers of your original country and ask for "recognition".

    • https://www.teslarati.com/tesl... [teslarati.com]

      In what could only be considered an unexpected win, the Tesla Model 3 was able to beat the BMW 3 Series and the Audi A3 as Germanyâ(TM)s Midsize Car of the Year at the Golden Steering Wheel Awards. The award was granted by auto publication AUTO BILD, whose event was graced by Tesla CEO Elon Musk.

    • They've been dumping R&D into self driving vehicles for some time. Look at the logos on the 2004 DARPA project, all those companies have had internal self driving divisions since at least then.

      Methods of locomotion have taken a backseat to that R&D, to the point of just cheating.

      They can both learn from each other. When you play fast and loose with some things (drive train) you get fast advancements in short time. When you play fast and loose with the self driving part, you get people killed. See: U

  • Elon Musk should have looked at a map. Saying that the factory will be built in Berlin is comparable to saying that it will be built in Manhattan.
    Berlin is crowded. It is much easier and cheaper to build it in Brandenburg. The Berlin Schönefeld airport is outside of Berlin. It is in Brandenburg. So is the autobahn ring around Berin (the A10).

    • The choice of synecdoche makes perfect sense to actual humans trying to communicate rather than pedants looking to score points.

      • Maybe you yourself should "take your autism pillsx, before barking something that clearly shows how you assume a dumber level of understanding because you aren't even aware of the higher level above yours.

        We *know* that one can say "in Berlin" to mean those outskirts too. That is the *basis* of the argument. Not its conclusion, like you thought. The conclusion is, that it was delibetately used for manipulative reasons, and the factory will not be in a location that "**in** Berlin" implies. Merely a sleazy l

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

          Have you ever considered suicide? Everyone who knows you would benefit by you giving it a shot.

    • When you're ten miles from the center of the city it's perfectly normal to say you're in Berlin. Saying that the airport and the factory are "in Brandenburg" would be a much more vague a statement. That's the whole state surrounding Berlin. Even worse, Brandenburg is also a city that the airport and the factory are *not* in. You could specify the exact suburb, but then hardly anyone would know what you're talking about unless you clarify it with "a suburb of Berlin". When you fly to JFK you're going to New

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by djgl ( 6202552 )

        The thing is that Brandenburg is a different state.
        Berlin will see no taxes from that factoy.

    • And yet it is still called the Berlin airport. Just like the Vienna airport is in lower Austria, and whole different state. Yet when you can get to the city centre from the airport in 20min no one argues that it "isn't in Vienna".

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Sique ( 173459 )
      Actually, Elon Musk said "in the Berlin area", which is completely correct. And if you looked at a map, you would have known that he was correct. But then you couldn't rant with such conviction.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by djgl ( 6202552 )

      Today's newspapers say that the factory will be built in Grünheide, Brandenburg.
      That's about 30km (18 miles) east-south-east from the center of Berlin.

  • there's not going to be a factory in Germany (Score:4, Insightful)

    by vipvop ( 34876 ) on Tuesday November 12, 2019 @09:48PM (#59408866)

    This is an excuse to raise more capital while the stock is high, there is absolutely no reason for them to build a factory in Germany

    • Of course there is/are:
      - a relatively peaceful country
      - a relatively stable government
      - a good educated work force
      - probably the cheapest city to live in in Germany
      - all the infrastructure
      - and actually already a local market

  • First they take California
    Then they take Berlin

  • German here. "Bild" is the worst yellow press rag (Score:4, Informative)

    by BAReFO0t ( 6240524 ) on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @02:37AM (#59409302)

    It is our version ofthe combination of Breitbart and the Daily Mail. Just for reference. Only read by trash.
    So any awards it gives out means nothing at all, except that somebody pleased the worst kind of lobbyists.

    Hence, you can assume some very dirty deal between Musk and some lobbyist politicians. Which explains why Musk chose Berlin.

    • Yikes...that "lugenpresse" slur coming from a German is very chilling. Lugenpresse ('press of lies') is a pejorative political term used largely by German political movements for the printed press and the mass media at large, as a propaganda tactic to discredit the free press. Someone modded this up...for shame.
      • yeah. sounds like trump.
  • Ich bin ein Berliner.

    Go Tesla.

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