For Tech-Weary Midwest Farmers, 40-Year-Old Tractors Now a Hot Commodity (startribune.com) 246
An anonymous reader quotes a report from StarTribune: Kris Folland grows corn, wheat and soybeans and raises cattle on 2,000 acres near Halma in the northwest corner of Minnesota, so his operation is far from small. But when he last bought a new tractor, he opted for an old one -- a 1979 John Deere 4440. He retrofitted it with automatic steering guided by satellite, and he and his kids can use the tractor to feed cows, plant fields and run a grain auger. The best thing? The tractor cost $18,000, compared to upward of $150,000 for a new tractor. And Folland doesn't need a computer to repair it.
Tractors manufactured in the late 1970s and 1980s are some of the hottest items in farm auctions across the Midwest these days -- and it's not because they're antiques. Cost-conscious farmers are looking for bargains, and tractors from that era are well-built and totally functional, and aren't as complicated or expensive to repair as more recent models that run on sophisticated software. "It's a trend that's been building. It's been interesting in the last couple years, which have been difficult for ag, to see the trend accelerate," said Greg Peterson, the founder of Machinery Pete, a farm equipment data company in Rochester. [...] There are some good things about the software in newer machines, said Peterson. The dealer will get a warning if something is about to break and can contact the farmer ahead of time to nip the problem in the bud. But if something does break, the farmer is powerless, stuck in the field waiting for a service truck from the dealership to come out to their farm and charge up to $150 per hour for labor.
Tractors manufactured in the late 1970s and 1980s are some of the hottest items in farm auctions across the Midwest these days -- and it's not because they're antiques. Cost-conscious farmers are looking for bargains, and tractors from that era are well-built and totally functional, and aren't as complicated or expensive to repair as more recent models that run on sophisticated software. "It's a trend that's been building. It's been interesting in the last couple years, which have been difficult for ag, to see the trend accelerate," said Greg Peterson, the founder of Machinery Pete, a farm equipment data company in Rochester. [...] There are some good things about the software in newer machines, said Peterson. The dealer will get a warning if something is about to break and can contact the farmer ahead of time to nip the problem in the bud. But if something does break, the farmer is powerless, stuck in the field waiting for a service truck from the dealership to come out to their farm and charge up to $150 per hour for labor.
Everybody wants right to repair (Score:5, Insightful)
Companies want to get your business but instead of being competitive they just lock everybody else out, but the customers want options
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Re:Everybody wants right to repair (Score:4, Interesting)
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Except in this specific instance that isn't the case? Because they're buying 40-50 year old tractors instead of buying new locked in ones.
Re:Everybody wants right to repair (Score:5, Insightful)
manufacturers finding it difficult to produce more repairable things while staying in business themselves
I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing tractors. You know, solid lumps of metal with big chunky tyres and a top speed of sweet fuck all.
If John Deere can't profitably make an easily repaired tractor then they're in the wrong fucking business.
They choose not to. They intentionally design lock-in, they actively prosecute people trying to repair things themselves and they explicitly want to create a captive market.
It's working for them too, a 29% increase in revenue and profit for their farming division. Of course, that revenue and those profits are coming from farmers and their customers, so we're all paying really.
Re: Everybody wants right to repair (Score:5, Insightful)
No, I class "easy" as including "the end user can do it".
The farmer can't do it, due to the artificial blocks that are put in place. That means that repairs are not easy, no matter how technically trivial they may be.
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The end user "could" do many of the repairs--as they routinely do with their 1970's tractor. The trouble is, they cannot source parts since they're not authorized service blah, blah, blah. Even if they didn't require or managed to get a hold of the part, and "fixed" the issue, they'd still have to call the dealer service tech out to input the "unlock" code to actually operate their equipment again.
To use a car analogy... You can think of it as something along the lines of your check engine light coming o
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Making it *not* easy for them to repair, n'est-ce pas?
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Customer demand and buying habits are just as much to blame, with manufacturers finding it difficult to produce more repairable things while staying in business themselves. Customers might want options, but when given choice, they end up going with the locked in so often that producing anything else is not viable.
Wait, what? Where do you think the "locked-in" option came from? It wasn't on accident. The locked-in, must-take-it-to-the-dealer architecture is a rent-seeking effort to wring more money out of the customers. These companies are expending resources - legislative as well as technical - in order to force customers to send repair work back to the company ecosystem.
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The companies are locked into the same cycle though, and they are not exactly raking it in. Customer demand and buying habits are just as much to blame, with manufacturers finding it difficult to produce more repairable things while staying in business themselves. Customers might want options, but when given choice, they end up going with the locked in so often that producing anything else is not viable.
I could almost guarantee you if one of them decided to have the balls to let go of the lock in and just make a tractor that works reliably to the minimum required levels and can be repaired by any mechanic they would sell. That is if they wouldn't then be drowned by lobbyists and legislation making it illegal or as hard as possible to rock the boat and threaten the rest. Why the hell are tractors so dependent of software anyway? What changed in farming that a tractor has to be one of the most technologicall
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But, but but Tim Cook says that 3rd parties replacing iPhone batteries might do it wrong and burn your house down, so really they're all doing it for our own good. Truly it's amazing to see how selfless those big corporations are being, protecting us from ourselves by not letting us try to repair things, and just wanting us to pay through the nose for official support.
Re:Everybody wants right to repair (Score:5, Insightful)
When Apple is at the forefront of fighting the right-to-repair laws, that's why they're on my mind for a discussion about right-to-repair. If the shoe fits...
And I'll let it go if Apple does. So fat chance of that.
Queue China (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder how long it will take for a basic Chinese mechanical design to be introduced with optional tech addons that are open-source.
I'm sure that Ukraine can help write [vice.com] the new firmware.
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If there's not a law to prevent Chinese tractors and Ukrainian firmware, there will be. Got to protect American jobs.
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I don't know shit about tractors, but I have seen and heard lots of ads for 'Mahindra' here in the midwest. I'm guessing thats an Indian company rather than Chinese, but I bet they have less tech reliance than John Deere , International Harvester and Caterpillar.
(and yes I did read the FA in todays paper - The Star-Tribune is the only paper I read - I can't get the Fargo Forum on Kindle)
Re:Queue China (Score:4, Informative)
I saw a Mahindra at a farm show a while back. It's a nice little utility tractor. However when I asked what the asking price was for on it, it wasn't that much lower than a green or red one. It's not Mahindra's fault. the dealers are certainly not going to undercut domestic competition by that much. Why give up profit after all.
A lot of import tractors are actually using domestic engines and transmissions, because they are reliable and easy to get parts for, and they meet emissions standard. By domestic I mean also European. For example Kirovets puts Mercedes engines in their big tractors. I know one chinese company puts Perkins engines in their tractors.
Anyway, the entire machinery market is way inflated right now and in need of correction.
Re: Everybody wants right to repair (Score:2)
Re: Everybody wants right to repair (Score:5, Interesting)
I repair agricultural electronics for a living. Been doing it for a few years now. When a farmer calls me, he is thankful when I give him a few guidelines and troubleshooting tips. I do so that often he/she won't need to send the indicator/monitor in.
Some of the equipment I work on is used in mixing food for dairy cows (1800 pounds of corn, 1300 of oats, etc). They really can't do without it or they have to guess more than they should about rations, and milk production and their cows suffer. So if we can fix it over the phone and figure out what they need to order, it's less time away from the cows. Some of the equipment I service is ancient, with nixie tube readouts. Some of it is a lot newer.
Farmers really like old things that are serviceable, ideally that they can do a lot of the servicing themselves. I repair a Grain Moisture Detector that only has one transistor in the design. Occasionally we get in planter monitors with only one transistor per row (so they have 10-16 transistors in the entire monitor).
Re: Everybody wants right to repair (Score:3)
That's only part of the problem (Score:3)
The biggest problem is having the dealer lock in and only being able to get repaired by "Approved" agents who pay a license back which is a license to print money.
Companies want to get your business but instead of being competitive they just lock everybody else out, but the customers want options
Yeah, end users want the right to repair themselves. But they also wants something they CAN repair. No one wants to have to plug a computer into a terminal to fix a fuel injector. A tune-up should be a simple manual procedure, not running a Star Trek Level III diagnostic.
The tractor trend isn't the latest. This has been going on here in the US South for awhile, as country boys seek out older cars and especially, trucks. Plentiful parts available in the aftermarket, relatively easy to maintain and mod, and y
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No one wants to have to plug a computer into a terminal to fix a fuel injector. A tune-up should be a simple manual procedure, not running a Star Trek Level III diagnostic.
Not that I want to fix my own vehicle, but if I did I would be fine with plugging a computer in. These days, a wireless device and a smartphone really. Just not DRM blocking me. A tune-up is not going to be a manual procedure when you are tuning fuel efficiency to such a high degree. An ECU is just going to be way more efficient at running everything.
Re: That's only part of the problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: That's only part of the problem (Score:3)
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First, most consumers have no idea what they are doing. If they decide to dink around with the software on an ECU, they can easily fuck up the timing, and have a valve in the way when the piston slams down for a compression stroke... trashing the engine.
I don't think that's even possible, while variable cam timing is a thing, it's not enough to get it in a dangerous position and having a valve kiss the piston. Automotive computers get random errors too, sensors eventually fail, while the leading cause of this catastrophic failure is a failed timing belt.
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DIY is a big deal on a farm (Score:5, Insightful)
Downtime can cost you your whole crop (aka years worth of work) if say your combine or bailer or whatnot isn't running. You can't just tow big machines to the local dealer for 50 bucks, like you can with an old car.
Re:DIY is a big deal on a farm (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, DIY is big in every way. Self sufficiency (as much is as reasonable) is one of the ways farmers attempt to make their business profitable. Tractors were designed to run for a very long time, and they were designed to be repaired. You could buy entire tractors, and any parts for them, mail-order through Sears back in the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:DIY is a big deal on a farm (Score:5, Informative)
This is a flat out lie.
There is no law, or regulation, citing that a *modified* item adheres to emission standards. How would that even possibly work?
"Manufacturer = sued by EPA, because someone modified the product they bought, without the manufacturer's involvement"
Yeah. Right.
Where'd you hear this? When the dealer was trying to justify this crap?
"I know! I'll get the EPA to take the blame, farmers hate the EPA!"
This is a red herring, a lie, and smacks of some weird industry supporting troll.
Re:DIY is a big deal on a farm (Score:5, Insightful)
Similar things have happened in the past. People modified tools and then they or third parties were injured or killed. The manufacturer was still found partially liable to the tune of 7 figure judgements (tho most were probably lowered to under a million on appeal but those have NDA's so little info comes out on those).
Cite?
Re:DIY is a big deal on a farm (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah but you just cited an example of a company not being found liable which is the opposite of the argument you were making.
As for defending themselves and ultimately not being found liable that is meaningless, anyone can sue anyone for anything. I could claim I slipped on a coke can and it triggered my wisdom teeth coming out and having to be removed or that coke is liable because I crushed the can and stuck it in an electrical socket and shocked myself with coke being negligent in producing the can out o
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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It's a commonly believed fact!
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A lot of equipment is already hired, rather than bought. e.g. https://www.combinerental.com/ [combinerental.com]
This is because farm equipment is expensive. Very fucking expensive. And you need a lot of it, if you want to operate efficiently.
So no, farmers can't afford to invest in 'hot spares'.
Not quite (Score:4, Insightful)
"and aren't as complicated or expensive to repair"
You're not allowed to repair yourself, complicated has nothing to do with it.
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Interesting)
"and aren't as complicated or expensive to repair"
You're not allowed to repair yourself, complicated has nothing to do with it.
No, it is mostly the complexity of repairing them as well as the cost of repairs which is artificially inflated by US tractor manufacturers through digital systems and legal barriers. In Canada Farmers have started to buy Belorussian tractors because of their: "... low purchase prices and simple mechanical technology ...". https://www.grainews.ca/2015/0... [grainews.ca] Interestingly I know for a fact that some US farmers have started sourcing these things from Canada too for the exact same reasons. I don't blame them, it seems like a sensible decision if you can get one of these MTZ tractors brand new for half the price and repair it yourself without having to bend over and get shafted like you have to if you buy John Deere or New Holland.
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Re:Not quite (Score:4, Interesting)
“The biggest claim to fame for our tractors is we’re still allowed to bring Tier 3 engines, which are much simpler than the more complicated Tier 4s,” he says. “Environment Canada is running a program called Transition, which allows us to bring in Tier 3s until 2018. It’s based on a U.S. program. It allows for an limited exemption. We just have the right timing, I guess. The majors ran their exemptions within the first year of the program, because of the volumes they make.”
Emissions exemptions are hard to get in the US. You can't just pay a fine for violations either. [fleetowner.com]
Re:Not quite (Score:4, Interesting)
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"Rural" does not automatically equal clean air. My rural, farm-heavy county has some of California's worst air... because the pollutants all blow here from San Francisco and Sacramento and get backed up against the mountains. And farm equipment no doubt emits a lot more than cars due to size and running time, and does so around food we eat which it may be important to limit the
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A very big chunk of pollution in the US comes from agriculture, but it has little to do with tailpipe emissions. There just aren't enough tractors around. That's not to say no emissions laws at all are needed there, but the low hanging fruit is enough (much as with cargo ships). Modern auto engines have incredibly sophisticated monitoring and adjusting for emission reduction, and that sort of thing is just unnecessary for agriculture. Just the cheapest, simplest stuff will reduce emissions by 90%, and t
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From the article you posted:
“The biggest claim to fame for our tractors is we’re still allowed to bring Tier 3 engines, which are much simpler than the more complicated Tier 4s,” he says. “Environment Canada is running a program called Transition, which allows us to bring in Tier 3s until 2018. It’s based on a U.S. program. It allows for an limited exemption. We just have the right timing, I guess. The majors ran their exemptions within the first year of the program, because of the volumes they make.”
Emissions exemptions are hard to get in the US. You can't just pay a fine for violations either. [fleetowner.com]
I have faith in MZTs ability to punk the established US manufactures by coming up with a compliant engine or licensing it from some European manufacturer. If there is one thing New Holland and John Deere need, it's competiton.
They already have a tier 4 engine in their lineup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
In 2010, distribution of Belarus tractors in United States and Canada was re-established through a local distributor "MTZ Equipment Ltd".[1] One of the contributing factors was the fact that the factory started making tractors with compression ignition diesel engines matching the current emissions standards, including Tier 3/4i/4 (United States/Canada) and Euro 3a, 3b, 4 for emission standards in Europe.
However, even
Re: Not quite (Score:3)
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They don't *have* to be more costly. And complicated to design, doesn't mean complicated to implement and repair.
Those two statement are contradictory, however. It's possible to design something that's both very complicated, and not so complicated to repair, but that's the most expensive design and adds unit costs as well. You're optimizing for that instead of other things, like efficiency or production cost.
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>>You're not allowed to repair yourself, complicated has nothing to do with it.
>>No, it is mostly the complexity of repairing them as well as the cost of repairs which is artificially inflated by US tractor manufacturers through digital systems and legal barriers.
"legal barriers" like DRM and copyright law. So you literally are NOT ALLOWED to repair them yourself because you have to break the law to even try, as nospam007 said. I doubt you could even buy the systems needed to legally repair it
Patents are not forever (Score:3)
I'm surprised some enterprising chinese company doesnt just replicate a 1970s John Deere tractor. The patents have already expired by now.
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Sounds like there is a market for newly-built tractors that have the old, simple designs.
I wonder what is currently preventing some enterprising entrepreneur from supplying such a thing.
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Re:Not quite (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds like there is a market for newly-built tractors that have the old, simple designs.
I wonder what is currently preventing some enterprising entrepreneur from supplying such a thing.
I had the same thought, and my guess is that it's not cheap to start a tractor company complete with an assembly line. But I'd bet there would be an instant market.
Hell, Elon Musk could take a couple billion and start a tractor company. It would barely be a rounding error for him. And he'd be an instant American Hero(r).
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Plus, they could advertise Green Tractors (not John Deere Green, maybe British Racing Green to avoid lawsuits), and have charging stations tied to windmills...
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Was thinking the same thing. Maybe make two or three models depending on how fancy the farmer wants to get. Model 1 is the tractor with a GPS-enabled screen and A/C. Model 2 is the same but a few extra add-ons which allow the farmer more granular control. Model 3 has all the bells and whistles.
The same could be said for cars. Instead of manufacturer lockin or computers controlling everything, have a few models which are stick shift with a real parking brake and keys. No worrying about software going hay
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It's a diesel tractors, zero electronics are required. The only electrics, the battery, starter motor and alternator. Everything else modern could be added as packs, remote steering pack etc.
Reality is cunt corporations are just ruthlessly sticking it to farmers. Real fucking arse hole corporations.
$180,000 equipment is also complex (Score:2)
It's both, and the manufacturer restrictions are the most annoying part.
John Deere had heads-up display and self-driving ten years ago. When you're talking about a $180,000 piece of equipment, a fee thousand for advanced computer tech makes little difference.
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Around here, most farmers are just getting by and a few thousand does make a difference. The big problem is waiting for that computer tech to show up while harvest is needed due to the rain on the way and such.
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True. I expect that a family farmer is going to be on the extreme end of pragmatic. I think that it may be more a case of there being very little else available on the market, as all the manufacturers go the same way (except, it seems, some in other countries).
I don't personally know why the decisions were made, and there's typically good reasons, hard to swallow as they might be. IANAF.
But you'd still have to drag me kicking and screaming into betting the farm for the InstaFarmer selfie-cam option. There's
Re:$180,000 equipment is also complex (Score:5, Interesting)
$180k? I don't think there's a single piece of new machinery with an engine I could buy for that cost, at least nothing over 180 hp. Try closer to $500-600k. It's completely insane. Yes $20k for GPS guidance is pennies compared to that, but at a certain point it starts to really sting. Especially when it comes to upgrading or unlocking features that are already in the system but just need to be turned on, like RTK.
I have some neighbors that bought a fancy self-propelled silage bagger machine for a cool $600k. Fortunately the corn silage is worth enough to pay for it in just a few years. Still, though.
"Cost-conscious farmers are looking for bargains" (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:"Cost-conscious farmers are looking for bargain (Score:4, Informative)
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Completely false. Family farms do get the handouts, too. I know, because I've got some of those Trump handouts in my bank account.
I know that as a proud American farmer, you'll be too proud to accept this thinly-veiled socialism in the form of a government handout. Right?
"Everyone hates the government until they need a friend." -Ronald Reagan
Re:"Cost-conscious farmers are looking for bargain (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"Cost-conscious farmers are looking for bargain (Score:4, Interesting)
I got it because I own a share of farming land in the Midwest. It was the largest government bailout in history.
Re:"Cost-conscious farmers are looking for bargain (Score:4, Insightful)
Completely false. Family farms do get the handouts, too. I know, because I've got some of those Trump handouts in my bank account.
I don't think the statement was intended literally. My understanding is the vast majority of the farm subsidies go to large, corporate farms. Farmer Bob out standing in his field gets a small but non-zero slice of the payments.
Perhaps we should all strive for precision in our writing?
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That is incorrect - small farms (really, small businesses engaged in the outdoor segment of the food industry) do in fact receive a host of federal subsidies.
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You aren't likely to find a politician who has anything but contempt for anyone who doesn't live in a coastal city.
Family farms don't get those handouts, Monsanto and pals do.
That's cause the big boys give the big dollars; and the family farmers make nice talking points about why the handouts are needed. Win-Win, excpet for the small farmers.
False (Score:5, Informative)
100% false. I owe a percentage of some land farmed by my family, and I got my percentage of Trump handouts every time.
Re:False (Score:5, Informative)
The DRM garbage is conspicuously absent (Score:5, Informative)
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While I generally don't eat produce, the meat I eat is fed from farms. These farmers are being locked into machinery ecosystems much like on Phones (Android/Ios) and cannot easily get out.
Good to see old tech working.
Re:The DRM garbage is conspicuously absent (Score:4, Interesting)
This summary misses a HUGE driver of the problem and this response - DRM. It's not just that the modern tractors are more computerized, it's that the manufacturers have been locking the systems down so that ONLY a dealer can fix them.
I wonder how often a broken tractor is something like the suspension and the spinny-cutty bits versus the engine. I'm sure the bits which cut and move dirt and plants break or jam all the time. I can't see how the DRM could keep you from unjamming an auger or welding a busted plow blade back on.
OTOH, if an engine emission sensor or computer goes, there I could see there's some software and license which keeps you from just swapping the part. Quite honestly, a tractor sounds like a great application for a dead simple, brute force diesel engine built to last forever. Why Deere doesn't use them I can't say but EPA rules sure sound plausible. Well, that and lower fuel costs sounds like something a farmer might (but not necessarily) prefer.
Now, the closest I ever get to a farm was when my daughter took a tractor driving class in her last quarter at UC Davis (an ag school) so have no actual experience with tractors. Anyone know what failures are common and which ones are annoying but once in a blue moon?
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Think of the Corporations! (Score:2)
Those evil farmers! Trying to make a buck. How dare they! There should be a law! Get my Senator on the phone! /s
About to break? (Score:2)
I wonder how something detects that it's about to break with enough lead-time for a deal to get the part in. I would assume that things that break on a schedule would be replaced at maintenance time (i.e. fan belts).
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reduced flow rates. overheating. additional current draw. im sure you could think of a few more ways.
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I wonder how something detects that it's about to break with enough lead-time for a deal to get the part in.
"I've just picked up a fault in the AE35 unit. It's going to go 100% failure in 72 hours."
“It can only be attributable to human error”
"I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the farm. And I want to help you."
maintenance timers like the oil change light cars (Score:2)
maintenance timers like the oil change light that some cars have with an hidden menu to reset it.
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modern cars have belts, they just don't drive fans that often anymore, as they use electric fans so the ecu can control them. but the belts still run things like AC and power steering pumps, and your alternator.
people still call them fan belts even if they dont run fans.
i know some farm equipment junk yards (Score:2)
Perfect opportunity for China (Score:3)
Really nothing new (Score:2)
40 years ago farmers were still buying 40 year old tractors.
Why stick with american old tractors? (Score:5, Interesting)
You can get tranctors from India (Sonalika comes to mind).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
China and Iran are also very active in the tractor arena, but with the current climate, is not viable in the USoA.
Also, there are also tractorss in europe. Did you know that Lamborghini started as a tractor and agricultural equipment maker? And still produces them... Fancy a new Lambo?
https://www.lamborghini-tracto... [lamborghini-tractors.com]
So, I smell a business opportuity.... New tractors with no fancy-pansy computer systems from other countries for USoA farmers, tired of DCMA takedown letters, and all such nonsense. Get a Closed down automotive plant in a non-unionized state, retrofit it to assemble some tractors designed abroad, set up a service network, and, eventually, profit.
Me, I am not an USoA Citizen, so, quite hard to jump at the opportunity. But still, interesting.
And just to be certain, this post is not supposed to be funny or sarcastic.
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Re:Why stick with american old tractors? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do tractors have to meet emissions? If so that could be the reason for some of the complexity. Older Tractors are probably exempt. In the trucking industry, they get around that with what they call gliders. They are new trucks but with old rebuilt engines. The rules are that the engine and transmission are the year of the truck for emissions. If that is the issue then maybe a system like that would work for tractors. You just get older tractors and rebuild them and offer a warranty. But then you have the ethical question are you then avoiding emissions controls and making pollution worse and actually hurting people. Another option would be to convert them to use natural gas as it burns a lot cleaner, is cheap and produces less CO2 per unit of energy than most other fuels. Maybe electric is a possibility if the costs can be driven down and the range issue would not exist. I have not done the math or any studies but I am sure that someone will at some point.
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This will happen with computer systems too. (Score:2)
I'm so glad I made the complete switch to open source 20 years ago.
opensourceecology tractor (Score:4, Interesting)
https://www.opensourceecology.... [opensourceecology.org]
look up the ted talk by marcin https://www.ted.com/talks/marc... [ted.com]
buying a 2nd-hand tractor and spending months and a fortune on repairing it after it broke twice was precisely why he began the OpenSourceEcology project... with an open-design fully-documented tractor as the first project.
Re:opensourceecology tractor (Score:5, Interesting)
https://www.opensourceecology.... [opensourceecology.org]
look up the ted talk by marcin https://www.ted.com/talks/marc... [ted.com]
buying a 2nd-hand tractor and spending months and a fortune on repairing it after it broke twice was precisely why he began the OpenSourceEcology project... with an open-design fully-documented tractor as the first project.
Well, we built the first prototype in 2008 - https://wiki.opensourceecology... [opensourceecology.org], we got near product release with the MicroTrac in 2017 - https://wiki.opensourceecology... [opensourceecology.org], and in 2020 we're taking it to the finish line with a product release of the MicroTrac - built using an open source CNC torch table - built using our open source 3D printers. You can see our full Tractor Costruction Set genealogy at https://wiki.opensourceecology... [opensourceecology.org]. Check out more about this year's plans at https://www.opensourceecology.... [opensourceecology.org] - it's getting really interesting as we reinvent the wheel (3D printed wheels and tracks) - and print in metal using Wire Arc Additive Manufacturing.
Business opportunity for Tesla (Score:4, Interesting)
Tesla is still ramping up, trying to do 89 different things at once. (Build more SuperChargers, build more factories, finish the R&D on the Semi and pickup truck, get the Semi and pickup truck into production, continue R&D on improved battery technologies, continue R&D on drive trains, etc. etc.) So I think odds are very low that Tesla will try making tractors anytime soon.
But someone could make very simple and reliable tractors using Tesla battery packs and electric motors.
Note that Elon Musk has stated publicly that Tesla won't ever treat repairs as a profit center. Tesla cars don't have any DRM locking down their parts. (Tesla cars do use a number of parts that you can only get from Tesla, but I'm pretty sure no lock-in was intended. And, Tesla does now have a program [cleantechnica.com] where they sell parts; they aren't forcing Tesla owners to go to Tesla dealers for all repairs.)
Market dominance is the problem (Score:2)
Don't really see this as much outside the usa, since there is many more companies selling tractors. If someone tried to pull this crap people would just go do another brand.
Antiques? (Score:2)
Whoever wrote that knows nothing about farming. Tractors are used until they die. I mean, really die. A buddy of mine bought and the first thing he got was a 1972 IH tractor that I helped him pick out. It's a beast, and works great for the various aspects of baling hay. Money wasn't an issue - there's just no real reason to pay more than a few thousand bucks for a tractor that works for the purpose.
When I lived on farm back in the mid 90s, the farmer there used his Ford 8N that was built sometime in th
Re: (Score:2)
Try to find a "farm truck" (Score:2)
Just buy two. (Score:3)
"The best thing? The tractor cost $18,000, compared to upward of $150,000 for a new tractor. And Folland doesn't need a computer to repair it."
"the farmer is powerless, stuck in the field waiting for a service truck from the dealership to come out to their farm and charge up to $150 per hour for labor."
Buy two then? I see this stupidity in enterprise IT every day, they throw out 100% functional equipment solely because the service contracts end. I buy these machines on eBay for literarily pennies on the dollar and then just buy an extra one to keep on the shelf for spare parts if anything should break.
Same reason (Score:2)
emerging market: import new old-tech tractors (Score:2)
Not in my area (Score:2)
Farmers complain about the right to repair, but the honest truth is that fewer farmers repair their own machines these days. Many still do thank goodness. In my area no one would would consider buying a 40 year old tractor for mainline work because very few of them had the horsepower required to pull modern air drills and high-speed tillage machines. Out in Saskatchewan farmers regularly pull 60 foot wide air drills through heavy soil, which requires a lot of power and traction. A lot of them are running
Re: (Score:2)
Guess I should qualify what I said somewhat. There are plenty of old tractors around still kicking and will never disappear as long as a person can keep repairing them. We've got a few ourselves and we have no plans to park them. They don't tend to be working broad acre fields though.
If you want to see how a large American family farm operation runs, check out Welker Farms on YouTube. Three guys farming thousands of acres. They are some of the most creative and inventive farmers I know. They farm with s
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What the...? (Score:5, Interesting)
OK this is freaking me out. When did Slashdot, a mecca of bicoastal, cosmopolitan educated people, suddenly discover compassion for rural Americans in general and farmers specifically?
Hacking and fixing your own shit is cool.
Stories about people sticking it to greedy corporate psychopaths is cool.
Small businesses and entrepreneurship is cool.
Judging technology by actual value not just complexity and date of manufacture is cool.
Everyone loves small time farmers even if their only farming experience is playing zombie farm on their cell phones.
Do I have to remind you of Cletus the daughter-raping hillbilly who is racist and voted for Trump? That's who these 40 year old tractor buyers are.
Why do you have to be so ridiculous?