Uber Stops Upfront Ride Pricing in Response To California Worker Law (reuters.com) 123
Uber informed its California customers this week that it would switch to providing estimates as opposed to fixed prices for its rides in response to a new law that makes it harder to qualify its drivers as contractors. From a report: In an email sent out to riders and seen by Reuters the company said the final price would now be calculated at the end of a trip, "based on the actual time and distance traveled." "Due to a new state law, we are making some changes to help ensure that Uber remains a dependable source of flexible work for California drivers," the company said in the email. The change applies to all private rides, while upfront prices will continue to be provided for shared, or pooled rides. The email included a picture displaying an example of a ride request on the Uber app. It showed a $27 to $36 range for an UberX ride, the company's most popular private ride option.
In other words (Score:1, Flamebait)
Just like every other taxi service does. At least those who turn a profit.
Re:In other words (Score:4, Insightful)
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A taxi service has a meter in the car so you can see as you drive what you will pay and get out if you don't like the price.
If you get a ride in a taxi and at some point don't like how much it's going to cost and simply get out without paying, that's theft. You still owe the driver for the amount up to that point.
But the point is you don't know how much you'll pay until you get to your destination. Which is exactly what the Uber taxi service is now doing. Before they had flat rates, even though those rat
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This should mean more money for their drivers since now the true cost of being a taxi is being taken into consideration.
It may or may not mean more money for the driver. It also incentives taking longer routes, a common complaint against taxis.
That said, I think you're mixing up cost with revenue. Letting the meter run may increase their revenue. It doesn't do jack to their costs.
Costs are stuff like fuel, maintenance, interest on car loan, depreciation of vehicle, cleaning, taxes, and insurance.
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The parent did not say "without paying" -you added that part, thus creating a strawman that you then attacked.
The parent was stating that if you see the price on the taxi meter (the law requires the meter to be visible to passengers during transport) is going to be higher than you are willing to pay, you can choose to cut the ride short. With Uber's new method, you will not know if the ride is beyond what you are willing to pay until after the fact -there is no opportunity to terminate an expense that is g
did uber pre bill tolls as well? (Score:2)
did uber pre bill tolls as well?
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When I book a car from point A to point B, I always get an upfront price using a car service.
Usually it's quicker than calling a cab company too, though it is not as quick as using Uber.
What I'm actually surprised about is that the Uber is a fixed price, I never noticed but assumed it was calculated on reality of the drive.
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What I'm actually surprised about is that the Uber is a fixed price, I never noticed but assumed it was calculated on reality of the drive.
I did as well. I usually pulled up Google maps (or watched the app's built in map) with my destination to make sure the driver wasn't going some crazy route
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I'm usually doing short runs around town (to avoid drunk driving) and tell them to go the correct way since it's sometimes stupid.
Sometimes I'll stop and buy smokes too, I really hope they get some compensation for that.
I also always tip the max amount (often 50% or so), so I think they do alright.
Re: In other words (Score:2)
To me, that is the entire appeal of Uber. Knowing how much it is. In fact, that is what forms the basis of the decision. How much is it? Ok, go ahead and use them.
Without try fixed price up front? May as well call a taxi.
So it's like how taxis price stuff? what about air (Score:1)
So it's like how taxis price stuff? what about airport where at some it's fixed prices based on zones?
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So it's like how taxis price stuff? what about airport where at some it's fixed prices based on zones?
What about it? They appear entirely able and willing to charge for that.
That's why when getting a Lyft from Folsom airport, you walk over to the state department of education building on the other side of the road and get picked up from there.
Uber is a shitty company (Score:5, Interesting)
What absolute bullshit hypocrisy (Score:3, Insightful)
I know that I'm in the extreme minority, but I refuse to do business with shitty companies like this.
That is pretty rich, have you seen how absolutely shitty taxi companies treat drivers? That's why most taxi drivers are rude and hostile, and the taxis piece of crap cars that were last cleaned in the 70's.
If you actually cared about the workers or even ride quality you'd take Lyft/Uber every time, this small change is nothing compared to the loss of quality you suffer as a rider or a driver by going with
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is it possible to use uber/lyft without a smartphone APP installed?
website would be fine. but I'm under the impression that its ONLY via the app that you can use these services.
apps are security risk. I won't install anything from any of those 2 companies. zero trust in them and less than zero trust in anrdroid ecosystem.
so, unless you are willing to give up your data and privacy, you cannot use those services.
true or not?
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Uber.com. Click "ride" (Score:4, Informative)
> is it possible to use uber/lyft without a smartphone APP installed?
Yes.
I typed "uber.com", then clicked "Ride". It took me allmof six seconds to do this, less time than it took you to post.
> website would be fine.
Then use it.
> but I'm under the impression that its ONLY via the app that you can use these services.
You could have corrected that guess in less time than it took you to write it.
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You have fast typing skills to get your credit card number in that fast (I'm assuming smart people don't have one click payments from paypal and dont ever save credit card info to anything online).
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website would be fine. but I'm under the impression that its ONLY via the app that you can use these services.
http://m.uber.com/ [uber.com]
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may be true, may not be; but what I CARE about is stealing info from my phone.
I won't buy apple products, sorry. I realize they are better for security, but they have other weaknesses that I won't accept.
so, again, if I refuse to install apps, am I left out of the U/L non-taxi stuff?
seems so.
Sounds like a job for a burner phone (Score:1)
Well, it's a bunch of work, but you could set up a VM instance of an emulated android and run the app on that. However, the app is also used for things like tracking you and the driver, helping to confirm ride completion and handle payment. So you'd really need a laptop with enabled GPS, at least when using the app.
Alternatively, just get a burner phone that you only turn on for Uber/lyft and such.
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I always turn off cellular data and GPS on my phone, except for cases where this is needed (a map app when I want to know where I am). I know many apps think these things are on 24/7 but they're not.
What is wrong with you? (Score:2)
That is 100% false.
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Indeed.
"has ever used a taxi"? For one, Taxis used to be horse & buggy, predating the entire USA, back before photography ever started.
2. Dashcams and such are relatively recent
3. My area is still so crappy that they aren't doing this in taxis. Maybe in the cities.
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The government has records and facial scans of every single person who has ever used a taxi.
I was with you until this line. What? How exactly do you think they got all those pictures? It's not like taxis have scanners built in the back seat. And you can't seriously mean "ever": when I took taxis in the '80s, I don't think anyone took a facial scan of me.
Being less disagreeable, I just sorta assume if I'm in a public space in a city, there's a fair chance a camera is pointed more or less at me, regardless of whether I'm walking, driving, eating, catching a rideshare, or getting in a taxi. I don't t
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Yeah, it's so shitty that they offer them fixed rates, living wages, insurance, and benefits. That's awful.
If you actually cared about the workers or even ride quality you'd take Lyft/Uber every time
Did you recently have a blow to your head?
You are a monster (Score:2, Informative)
Yeah, it's so shitty that they offer them fixed rates, living wages, insurance, and benefits. That's awful.
Living wages [chron.com]? Really?? And piss-poor "benefits".
You are a monster, trying to normalize how cab companies are living off the backs of drivers.
There is a reason why most taxi drivers also work for Lyft/Uber, because they need to make enough to live.
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Re:You are a monster (Score:4, Insightful)
How is Uber supposed to pay their drivers more when they're losing money at alarming rates? The usual (and inane) line about companies exploiting their workers doesn't even come close to applying here. Apparently it's only the customers that are exploiting anyone since the company clearly isn't profiting and it's your own belief that the drivers (who continue driving for some reason) are getting screwed.
If you believe that the taxi companies are somehow benevolent employers that great friends to their workers, you might want to read the news [nytimes.com]. It sounds like they were exploiting employees far worse than Uber could ever hope to do.
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That's not my problem. In the US, we have very basic wage laws. It is illegal to employ people and not pay them a minimum wage.
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Are Lyft and Uber drivers outside salesmen? (Score:2)
Are you claiming that Lyft and Uber drivers fall under the outside salesman exemption? Because the others are mostly related to overtime for a salaried professional worker whose salary is no less than twice the minimum wage for 40 hours a week.
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In the US, we have very basic wage laws. It is illegal to employ people and not pay them a minimum wage.
Which is the crux of the disagreement, isn't it? When I hire a contractor to perform a service, it's fee for service. Neither I nor the law care how much they make per hour. If they're efficient, I'm probably paying much more than minimum wage. If they screw up, I may pay much less.
Uber has been very clear to everyone, especially the drivers: you're being hiring by the rider to perform a defined service at a set rate. How many hours it takes you is the driver's problem, not Uber's and not the rider's. And a
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Uber drivers are not private contractors. They work for Uber. Uber is required to pay a minimum wage to its employees.
Uber claims otherwise. The Feds agree. The California Assembly and Senate wish to change that designation and the point of the article is Uber is making changes to their policies to ensure the courts agree with Uber.
I call bullshit! (Score:2)
Wow! There's some master level delusion going on in this post. Uber is not a charity or non-profit. Th
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However, you should probably stop to ask yourself why if they weren't making minimum wage, why they wouldn't just go get any job that pays minimum wage?
Because they fail to account for vehicle depreciation, fuel, increased maintenance, and time waiting for fares so don't realize they are coming in below minimum wage net?
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How is Uber supposed to pay their drivers more when they're losing money at alarming rates?
You tell us. How come Uber is buying back its own stocks if it's losing money? How come Travis Kalanick just pulled out 2.5 billion dollars of cash from Uber when the company is supposedly losing money? Or how come Lyft is giving its CEO a total remuneration package of more than 100 million dollars per year?
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How is Uber supposed to pay their drivers more when they're losing money at alarming rates?
Do what all other companies do - charge the customer enough to cover costs and earn a profit! Oh, but then Uber/Lyft becomes as much cost as a taxi, and loses a lot of the "appeal" of low cost... This is the natural end result of a business that builds its entire customer base on the premise of paying them (via heavily discounted services) to use them. When you give customers money, they will flock to you; but do NOT be surprised when they go away when you stop paying them.
Re: You are a monster (Score:1)
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Taxi Company: shitty wages
Lyft/Uber: wages so low the state changes the law to make them increase it.
Taxi Company: shitty benefits
Lyft/Uber: no benefits at all.
Taxi Company: high fares, but you know what it will cost in advance
Lyft/Uber: We'll charge you whatever we think we can after you're committed to paying.
The lesser of two evils may well still be evil, but it's also still less evil.
(Did Uber ever fix their under-insurance problem when one of their drivers is hit by someone with no insurance?)
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I read that Uber and Lyft drivers make less than minimum wage after expenses, both companies have never made a profit (but somehow get money from VCs), and story goes taxi drivers suffer worst than Uber/Lyft drivers. So how does such a transportation business continue to survive? As in what Chris Johnson wrote these drivers giving more than they get back, in the belief that they're cornering some kind of market? As they say, a cult?
an interesting comparison of Uber and Lyft, https://www.youtube.com/watch? [youtube.com]
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According to that link, taxi drivers make wages above the poverty line, and the job has no education or experience requirements. In other words, for people with the typical education of a taxi driver, it is one of the best jobs they could get.
Now compare the wages for Uber. I looked it up and the average is below minimum wage, and the average driver only does 10 hours per week. They make different amounts at different times, do to the pricing method. That implies that their hourly wage would go way down if
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Using Uber/Lyft and tipping (such as most people do with Taxis vs a few percent on those services) seems to me that it would provide just as well for the drivers.
The biggest pay discrepancy between the two is that Uber/Lyft passengers don't tip.
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If you actually cared about the workers or even ride quality you'd take Lyft/Uber every time
Did you recently have a blow to your head?
Since I can tell by your user id that you were born yesterday, I'll explain this one: He was born that way.
You probably should have inferred it by the Super- and the cosplay cape.
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Curbside real estate (Score:2)
In fact, in the private property paradigm, a taxi medallion represents a share of curbside real estate.
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The places I've seen that use medallions have roads literally clogged with taxis. They're there to limit the number of taxis so the roads are usable, not for any absurd libertarian conspiracies.
My impression was that most places using medallions were set up so that there was a significant shortage of medallions which is why ridesharing solutions managed to succeed against the existing taxis exploiting the loophole of being a "car hire" service rather than a taxi/"car hail" service - the cell app made a "car hire" as convenient as the "car hail" of the taxi.
Anyhow, here is info on the crazy NYC situation: in New York City, the number of medallions has not changed since since 1937 at under 13,600.
ht [citylimits.org]
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I know that I'm in the extreme minority, but I refuse to do business with shitty companies like this.
That is pretty rich, have you seen how absolutely shitty taxi companies treat drivers?
In my State workers have rights, taxis are well-regulated, and taxi drivers get treated fine. There is always demand for competent drivers, they can easily switch companies.
Most drivers lease the car, and are real-life contractors who set their own hours, choose where to wait when not on a call, etc. They also keep most of the profit when they have a good day. And there is profit, because we set minimum rates that are calculated by the State with the intent of guaranteeing that the rates are high enough to
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I'm happy to do business with local taxis when they're happy to do business with me.
They often aren't. Unless it's a drinking Holiday in town, or an airport run, they take 30+ minutes to show up telling you ten minutes every time you check for up to 2 hours.
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When I call a cab, if they say 20 minutes they show up in 10.
You either live in a tiny, tiny town, or else your taxi regulations fail to set a minimum rate. Places without a minimum rate often only have one significant company per city, because of consolidation driven by price wars.
I'm in a pretty small city and we have nearly a dozen cab companies, and they compete mostly on service with the prices in a narrow band. Some people want more service, some of us want to load our own bags. There is a range of se
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Or I live in an area where there's no money in having a network of cars dedicated to driving around drunks (we are the worst) since it's only a few specific areas.
Though I did see someone wait in my shopping center (where I work) 2 hours for a cab once.
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Same here, never used it, never will.
At least, not unless the outside world starts looking like Snow Crash.
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LOL... If you actually think that the taxi companies aren't 10x shittier than Uber and Lyft, I'm pretty sure you're young enough that all you've ever known is the era of Uber and Lyft. Neither would have ever gained a foothold if the legacy cab companies were not a steaming pile of craptastic.
With Uber and Lyft, I have no trouble getting a ride to or from where I need... that includes the Sunset and Richmond, where taxis just won't pick you up, and only drop you off grudgingly and with much complaining, ev
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Most of the commenters go out to a bar and get drunk at night, so that's why they're not driving. They have cars, giant SUVs that they idle to work in.
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But I thought one need a car for a job and vice versa. How does one get to and from one's first job that happens to be more than 2 miles or 3 km from home in order to afford one's first car?
Upfront ride pricing (Score:5, Funny)
So is it cheaper if you sit in the back?
Dickenomics (Score:4, Insightful)
They could statistically guess a single decent price, adjust their model over time, and have it average out to profits. They are just being a dick to "send a message" to other states.
Fuber
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I still don't get why they don't just let drivers and passengers set their own rates and negotiate.
They're pathologically incapable of following rules, that's why changed the rule to a different rule that still doesn't comply with the intent of the law. They'd rather end up owing the drivers a bunch of money later than to have been following the rules all along. Just because. I guess it is the company culture.
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...that's why changed the rule to a different rule that still doesn't comply with the intent of the law.
Funny about that. You can pass a bill and it still doesn't guarantee people will behave the way you want them do. Kind of makes you wonder whether legislation is an effective tool to address every social question, don't it?
Seriously, when will we learn? Clearly, gig companies, workers, and customers we all happy with the arrangement, otherwise they wouldn't participate. Or more specifically, they prefer the gig alternative to their next best option. Why do we insist on second guessing them?
Gotta go, need to
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...that's why changed the rule to a different rule that still doesn't comply with the intent of the law.
Funny about that. You can pass a bill and it still doesn't guarantee people will behave the way you want them do. Kind of makes you wonder whether legislation is an effective tool to address every social question, don't it?
No, I restrict myself to answerable questions instead of vapid, cynical, masturbatory rhetorical utterances.
So to start with, does the process I describe end in the legislation not being effective? No, what I described is merely a multi-step process, operating as intended, that leads to the intended result.
Because Freedom requires Process.
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I still don't get why they don't just let drivers and passengers set their own rates and negotiate.
You've never taken a taxi in an undeveloped country, or a one where attempts to fleece tourists is rampant, clearly. You've never had someone take advantage of you in a negotiation, either, and you have enjoyed great benefit from fixed, transparent pricing.
The reason that taxis have meters that are certified by some local governing body is to prevent fleecing of unsuspecting or naive customers by nefarious drivers.
All that you are suggesting, by following along the path that Uber is now setting, is that we
That's what they did until California made it ille (Score:2)
That's precisely what they did. Until California made it illegal for them to set the price. The driver needs to be the one to set the actual price, in order for them to be an independent contractor.
The driver chooses when to work, where to work, what car to use, how much to charge ...
Uber needs to be like Craigslist, not like Best Bu (Score:2)
You'll note that when you offer to sell a product or service on Craigslist, you set the price. Craigslist doesn't. That's because when you sell something on Craigslist, YOU are selling it, Craigslist isn't.
When you go to Best Buy to buy a TV, Best Buy sets the price, the salesperson doesn't - because the salesperson is an EMPLOYEE of Best Buy.
You see the difference between selling something ON Craigslist vs selling something FOR Best Buy?
The issue is whether the driver is an independent company, selling r
Sad CA is siding with corporations (Score:1)
By refusing to give prices up front, corporations can just take everything we have like the medical cartel does. Our lives with having enough money to buy food and shelter are over in CA since they can just take whatever they want. CA hates the people.
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California is the second most hostile state (after New York) towards business in the US.
Mostly, the state sides with the unions that contribute millions to reelection funds every year, and Hollywood's rich people. Everybody else is there solely to have money extracted out of them.
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California is the second most hostile state (after New York) towards business in the US.
OK, now look up what "business" does, and how businesses measures success.
It may turn out that California has one of the friendliest business environments in the entire world, with New York right behind them. But that's only true if the purpose of business is to make money; if the purpose of a business is merely to appear Virtuous to people with certain political leanings, then you might be right.
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That's funny, plenty of business are thriving in California. Ones that play by the rules.
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My company has an office in San Mateo, CA that is thriving. It's despite the huge taxes and higher costs though. We have it since it's much easier to find good developer talent than here in Seattle.
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Can someone please explain to my friend... (Score:3)
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Exactly. Explain it to me as well. I don't see how these things are related at all.
Re: Can someone please explain to my friend... (Score:2)
Re:Can someone please explain to my friend... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Uber is a logistics company where all costs are externalized...I'm not impressed.
You're not? It's a brilliant bit of disintermediation and financial engineering. The "sharing" economy is a fascinating and unanticipated way to improve the efficiency of our use of physical assets. It only seems unimpressive in hindsight after we've had the "why didn't I see that?" moment.
What I find ironic is that it seems to be liberals who both want to improve efficiency to Save The Planet and also hate on the sharing economy. Hiring out otherwise idle cars/houses/tools/whatnot is a great way to improve
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What is the actual relationship between this pricing change and the new California worker law?
The relationship is that while the old policy was clearly not legal since the new law was designed to force them to change it, the new policy hasn't been evaluated yet, so they can get away with this new thing while the State takes a bunch of time proving that they're not in compliance.
Expect at that point an additional new policy that also doesn't comply. Eventually, they'll end up in court with a Consent Decree that sets the policy to something the State writes for them. But that's years of process away.
Damn commies! (Score:1)
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Don't worry Ivan, if you keep going to your ESL classes eventually you'll have enough vocabulary to make an actual comment. Keep trying!
Big surprise... (Score:1, Funny)
What a shocker, California ruined something...
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You do realize Uber wouldnt exist without California?
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Rank drivers in a list with their ask prices (Score:2)
This range of price display is anti-consumer.
Range pricing will allow the Uber to send always send you the highest priced available driver, because then Uber gets a larger cut. Which you already agreed to, when you were shown the range.
What is needed is a list of ranked drivers (number of rides and number of stars along with vehicle make/model) plus their ask price to give you a ride. Uber already has all this info. They just need to display it to the buyer.
As a buyer you could also set a price and let driv
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This range of price display is anti-consumer.
No kidding. By institutionalizing the ABC test (one of which is the contracting company can't set prices) we're demonstrably hurting consumers. Way to go Sacramento. Too bad no one saw that coming.
Why wouldn't Uber just average the discrepencies (Score:2)
And thus keep a fixed price for the customers (hint to Uber: This price certainty is your MAIN value proposition to customers) and get fair compensation to each driver.
If the problem is that the initial offered prices are just systematically too low, on average, then figure out how much
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If Uber only acts as a middle layer connecting drivers and riders as they claim, then in my opinion they shouldn't dictate pricing for each ride, instead just let those drivers bid on them according to free market rates. eBay doesn't force sellers to sell their own items at fixed prices dictated by themselves no? Though it would probably create a scenario where everyone simply competes based on pricing alone, and may eventually drive the price down to bottom where no one really makes any profit, service quality would also suffer as a result.
The way Uber is losing money at the moment, I just don't understand how they can possibly cover the costs of turning contractor drivers into employees. In the end, I'm afraid customers would be the ones who end up paying for those costs. This has been a great ride guys!
But the customer has to pay the costs of providing the services, which really should include a living wage to the driver. If the price is not high enough to pay the driver, in addition to all the infrastructure overhead, then it is not sustainable.