Microsoft is Testing Ads in WordPad in Windows 10 (betanews.com) 184
BetaNews: Over the years Microsoft has taken numerous controversial decisions with Windows 10, including installing sponsored apps, using the Start menu to advertise apps it thinks you might be interested in, and -- of course -- the various forms of data-collecting telemetry. Now it has been discovered that more ads could be on their way. A Windows researcher has uncovered ads in WordPad encouraging people to try out Word, Excel and PowerPoint online. News of the ads was shared on Twitter by Rafael Rivera, and it was met with a mixture of indignation and reluctant acceptance. Reaction was mixed because while some people saw little wrong with Microsoft advertising a free service rather than trying to encourage people to part with money, there was still a widespread feeling that it was an invasive move.
FFS just ditch Windows (Score:4, Interesting)
MacOS for the desktop, Linux for everything else. You don't need Windows in your life whether you're a private individual or a corporation. Windows reached it peak with 7 when it was an acceptable OS, now its just sliding back into being junkware.
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MacOS for the desktop, Linux for everything else.....
What's wrong with Linux as the desktop?
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The main issue is that Linux office suites are 99% compatible. Not 100%... and that 1% can cause major issues.
Oh, and Linux can't run business critical apps like QuickBooks.
Re:FFS just ditch Windows (Score:4, Interesting)
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In my experience, Windows runs much more reliably and smoother as a VM with minimal apps installed anyway. Yes. I have even managed to make Windows Vista run okay by putting it on a starvation diet.
Been running Linux exclusively on desktop for over 20 years for work and home. The last 4 or 5 I have barely interacted with Windows at all.
In 2011, I managed to make a clean break from Windows and went Linux and Unix MacOS. Happy times. Then I bought a new piece of radio kit and the only software available was Windows based. So sadly I got a Windows machine. Amazingly enough, it's still awful Windows product. The less windows the better. The new machine is pretty stripped down, and no personal info is on it.
Re:FFS just ditch Windows (Score:4, Insightful)
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The main issue is that Linux office suites are 99% compatible. Not 100%... and that 1% can cause major issues.
Oh, and Linux can't run business critical apps like QuickBooks.
And Microsoft offce isn't compatible with itself. Seriously though - what is that 1 percent incompatibility?I use Linux, Microsoft and MacOS versions of Apache Office and haven't found an incompatibility yet.
I also use the plaform that has the software I need. But saying that Windows wins because Quickbooks is like saying that MacOS wins because Final Cut or the better Adobe Suite. It's null. I have to use Final cut So my desktop is Mac.Which also integrates perfectly with my iPhone and my new Jeep's inte
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If everyone just switched to LibreOffice and dumped MS Office entirely, then there would be no issue whatsoever.
Unless LibreOffice has a 100% accurate work-alike equivalent for VBA/.Net/Mono, then this discussion is already at an impasse for a lot of small, medium, large businesses. You know, 90%+ of MS's Office customers.
Re:FFS just ditch Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure.
But there's 30 years of that stuff out in the wild. Many of which provide functionality that people use to run their businesses.
You can't just write it off without providing an alternative. And the suite of functionality provided by those tools are why any of the Office alternatives haven't caught on outside of casual users.
Everything from a basic .doc/.xls mail merge (which gDocs cannot do without a lot of pain.) to entire CRMs built with the tools provided with Office need to be replicated.
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little dictator
That's rich coming from a bigoted MS shill promoting closed-source, forced labour malware under the guise of "the one true OS" and "one true office suite".
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Maybe 2021 will be the year of the Linux desktop...
Software Drivers for GRAPHICS CARDS (Score:5, Insightful)
That "Nouveau" crap simply doesn't work.
Nor do the ostensible drivers from nVidia itself.
Windows immediately finds the cards, installs the correct drivers, and you never have screen freeze.
Whereas Nouveau gives you MAYBE fifteen minutes max between screen freezes.
Nouveau is utterly unacceptable for serious desktop work.
And no, I have zero interest in getting a PhD in how to recompile a custom kernel so that my frigging proprietary graphics card drivers might actually figure out how to install themselves after maybe six months of 24x7 work on the frigging project.
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Stop using closed-source nVidia. I'm happily running 3 4K monitors on my Linux box using an AMD Radeon Pro WX 5100 and the open source amdgpu drivers. Plug-and-play with KDE Plasma. Four workspaces (three screens per workspace), full 3D desktop effects, OpenGL 4.5, beta Vulkan when I'm feeling adventurous. Uptimes measured in months. Stop playing with your proprietary graphics card drivers and go professional.
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And are you going to convince every equipment manufacturer on the planet to write and possibly certify Mac/Linux packages? Not to mention that software often isn't an individual users choice, if Microsoft can convince the suits/IT department that Windows is the way to go then everyone in the organisation runs Windows/Office/whatever. We've plenty of hardware in the lab which flat out doesn't have Linux or Mac softwa
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Sadly, I have encountered many lab devices that run Linux on the device but only Windows software to talk to the device. At least this seems to be changing. Now some of the newer devices run Linux and serve up a webpage that can be accessed by anything with a browser---but they are so slow.
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It'll get better. More and more, a web interface seems to be the direction companies are heading.
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Shrug. I was issued a Mac at my current job. The company standardized on the Google suite, so no Office incompatibilities between the Mac and Windows users. People who interface with the outside world may occasionally need Office, but they have to get special permission to install it. It's considered an extreme edge case.
Windows is very difficult to get rid of completely, but some companies are chipping away at it.
Mind you, although I use a Mac at work, I can't justify the cost for home. And as I said
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And are you going to convince every equipment manufacturer on the planet to write and possibly certify Mac/Linux packages?
Hey, the IT folks and coders are often worse than Rednecks at the corner garage getting into fiostfights arguing about their Fords and Chevies.
The best example I can come up with is we were looking for a lot of high speed scanners to convert paper documents to pdf. We looked at a few units and invited some folks in to show us. One group brought in a nice unit, fast and we were just about sold. I then noted that we needed the Mac version of the software.
"This is Windows only". I was surprised, since it
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ironically, I'd suggest linux for the desktop if you're holding out due to games. Gaming on linux is actually pretty good right now.
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True, provided you're not trying to play any games that require high frame rates.
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Wine 5.0 was just released with aim to better play with anti-cheat software. It still has a long way to go, but there's progress...
Framerate is also pretty good with DXVK now.
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I tried it a year ago, and it really did play much. Maybe time has improved on it.
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I've been suffering under OSX for three years no. Please go fornicate with thyself.
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Suffering in what way? Its a perfectly good - if somewhat lightweight - unix with plenty of application support.
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Agreed. Oddly enough, the company I worked for standardized on Macbooks. This means I don't have to worry about replacing the hardware when Apple thinks I should -- that's someone else's problem.
To a *nix administrator, OSX is like some bizarre Frankenstein collection of BSD, Gnu, and proprietary stuff, but it works ok when you get used to the eccentricities. You can get really frustrated trying to make it behave like Linux, and it's best just to learn "the Mac way" and treat it like a different operatin
Re:FFS just ditch Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
> You don't need Windows
Unfortunately, "need" is not that simple.
0. People don't want to change. They have Stockholm Syndrome.
1. There are certain apps and games that only work on Windows. While Proton [wikipedia.org] is coming along nicely for gaming it still has a ways to go.
2. People "need" their drugs. Until there is an equivalent MacOS and/or Linux software (and drivers) people will not switch.
3. MacOS has its own set of problems. Personally, I use all 3: Windows, Mac OS, and Linux, but Windows does somethings better, while Mac OS does other things better. All you have done is replace one problem with a different set of problems.
4. The most effective solution would be to set a date in the future say 2024, and everyone just ditches MS. That will NEVER happen due to people's laziness and apathy. While MS still has people using it's OS it will continue to exploit people -- that's been it's ENTIRE business purpose: To make money. Microsoft has ZERO respect for your time.
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> All you have done is replace one problem with a different set of problems.
What he said. I use Windows and OSX on the desktop (and we're forced to use Windows for some back end services) and they each have their own problems. With Apple, you don't just have problems with the OS, you also have enforced retirement of the hardware, which is why I don't use it at home.
Re:FFS just ditch Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
0. People don't want to change. They have Stockholm Syndrome.
Bullshit. It's Linux that doesn't want to change.
Linux has been around for decades, which is an eternity in the computer industry. During that time, Apple has recovered from the brink of disaster, Linux blew it in the netbook market, and Google has risen to take over the web, the mobile market, and is on the cusp of potentially challenging Windows in the near future. If Linux hasn't been able to foster a large community after all that time, then that means it sucks and people don't like it. Period. Anything else is just excuses.
This isn't the 1980's anymore. The industry is mature and people know what they want. Linux just fails to recognize those needs and blames it all on user error, manufacturers' drivers, and Stockholm Syndrome. Every time I've tried Linux in the last decade, I'm disappointed how many issues from the 90's are still a problem today, and various Linux zealots insist that those problems don't exist and I'm just making shit up. Yeah... no thanks.
Re:FFS just ditch Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
Mac OS is simply not the panacea you think it is. Also, the hardware tax for Mac OS is quite salty.
The problem is that there is not a one-size-fits-all desktop OS solution and Windows, Mac OS, and all of the Linux desktops just aren't there yet, but they are what we are stuck with for now.
Great! (Score:5, Insightful)
Great! When can I get the Mac version of our mission critical software?
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You don't need Windows in your life whether you're a private individual or a corporation.
Great! When can I get the Mac version of our mission critical software?
And *that's* the reason, as a Mac user at work, I have a Windows box hidden under my desk.
Still need Windows for some stuff... (Score:2)
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MacOS for the desktop, Linux for everything else. You don't need Windows in your life whether you're a private individual or a corporation. Windows reached it peak with 7 when it was an acceptable OS, now its just sliding back into being junkware.
Except that, I can't justify the premium price for brushed metal, and I don't fit in with the glassy-eyed Mac culture.
Really, since we do most things in a browser these days, Linux on the desktop (Mint, actually) meets most of my needs. The only exception being Adobe Creative Cloud, and I can't justify owning a Mac just for that. So I have a Windows box, purchased used. But I probably won't be using Wordpad anymore.
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I want linux, but it can't run League of Legends without triggering the anticheat system eventually (triggering it once means a permaban btw)
I'm sure there are a lot of games with the same issue
...and suffer Mac Hardware? (Score:5, Insightful)
MacOS for the desktop, Linux for everything else.
If I _could_ run MacOS on my desktop I might agree with you but MacOS only runs (legally and reliably) on Apple hardware. Ten years ago that was not a problem but for the past ~6 years Macs have been overpriced junk with dodgy keyboards, expensive gimicky features, lack of useful ports and, for the MacPro (until very recently) 6-year old hardware priced as if it were new. I dropped macs for PCs about 3-4 years ago and while MacOS was a great desktop I paid ~$1k less for a Dell laptop with better specs. Windows Linux Subsystem is the saving grace for Windows 10 and while MacOS is better it is not worth paying an extra $1,000 and suffering crap hardware.
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I'd be fine with that (Score:5, Interesting)
As long as they remove WordPad from Windows and make it an optional (not installed by default) application (maybe available through their store).
But I don't want any ads inside Windows. They are selling this product. It should be ad-free. They could also make a free, ad-supported version of Windows if they want to but that's not the case actually.
"They are selling this product." No, they aren't. (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, if would have ever taken a look at your contract / license agreement, you have seen that it isn't a product at all, and it never was. .... always was bullshit, ... and licenses prove they know that.
They are selling *licenses*. That is a contract that you will be told a secret (the software), if you promise to keep that secret.
Which is silly, since they could not tell if you didn't. (And I have researched this down to the literal physics.)
But acting as if it was a product
Software development is a service. Software *itself* is not anything.
If a painter paints your wall, and you paid him, which is a service too, then you don't sign a license, nobody is banned from seeing said wall, and most importantly, nobody ever needs to pay the painter to use that wall ever again. Nor will anyone be called a sea-faring rapist thug if he doesn't pay up that protection money.
And here lies the culprit: They are transitioning to *software* as a service, instead of software *development* as a service, like it should be.
They still want to limit the usage of the software they were alread paid to make! They seriously expect you to keep paying and paying. Nevermind that Windows barely needed any new features since a loong time ago, and what is added nowadays, is nearly exclusively added to justify further payments.
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Not really, MS would like you to pay them to fix the bugs and security vulnerabilities they built into the software.
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To be honest, WordPad is a horrible application and Microsoft probably should recommend alternative products to use instead of it.
That said, it would be nice it worked like the EU mandated Browser Ballot, where they needed to offer several options. If you don't want to pay for Word, perhaps LibreOffice is more to your liking?
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Do people still use Wordpad? On any new Windows box, right after I download Firefox, I download Textpad. I thought everyone did this.
Transitioning to an ad-based business model ... (Score:2)
... are we?
Coming soon: Windows, Free2Play edition?
Meanwhile I see more and more "average users" and old people that casually tell me they have "Linux" too. (Well, not really GNU/Linux, but systemd/Linux, but I'm taking it.)
Bye bye Windows. I hope your dick falls off. [youtu.be]
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There were old rumors that Microsoft wanted to go to a subscription model. The rumors at the time said that you would need to pay X dollars a month for access to Windows or your computer would revert to minimal access. Depending on the rumor you listened to, it was everything from no internet access to locked out entirely. Perhaps the rumors were true, but they are going to show ads in apps unless you pay your X dollar a month subscription fee.
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No, Winders is there to serve Internet Explorer. Many sites still require that damn thing. If you ping them, they'll swear they are sworn to support Winders. What they mean is that some knucklehead wrote their software to depend upon IE and that knucklehead left the building long ago and damned if they can figure out how it all works.
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Re:Transitioning to an ad-based business model ... (Score:4, Interesting)
I think it's inevitable that they will make desktop Windows some kind of subscription, probably tied into Azure for everything so its synchronized and you can login from anywhere.
How long (or if at all) it will run without network access would probably be tied to the subscription tier. I would guess the cheapest tiers would just be VMs in the cloud with no local access, and high-end enterprise would run locally indefinitely and be cloud synced, too.
You could put a lot of IT out of work and cut costs if a "new" computer was just a login and a prioritized sync from the cloud, pulling down data as-needed to run apps or access files. Roaming profiles on steroids.
Plus MS could nuke all the VDI competitors at the same time, since such a system could also use baked-in templates for specific organizations.
My question is whether they will ever face anti-trust action for something like this, or whether they will point to Linux or MacOS and claim there are other options/no too much MS control over the desktop.
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I would think that Windows 10 is ... (Score:5, Interesting)
.
I have three more PCs to over to Linux, then I won't care about the Windows 10 disaster any longer...
Roku (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I like youtube on my Roku, but it is indeed getting to be like a billboard. They are cramming ads into every square inch of it.
I guess that is what you get, when ads pay for the service.
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... going to become more of a billboard than an OS sooner than later.
Based on a single story on a single app advertising another app of which there are maybe 4 in Windows which do it once and then not again?
I wish I could get rid of a billboard with a click of a button and have it never come back.
I mean it's a dick move to show the advert but then instantly claiming Windows is going to become more of a billboard than an OS is a slippery slope fallacy that borders on satirical absurdity.
WordPad?!! (Score:2)
Wow, I didn't even know that was still around. I haven't ran WordPad in at least two decades.
Regarding ads in apps, I can't say I'm surprised. Commercial software developers are *desperate* for revenue and when the subscription model (thanks Adobe!) isn't an option or just doesn't cut it, then in-app advertisements will be the next step. I wouldn't be surprised if the most commonly used dialogue boxes in Windows, such as File Open, Save, Save As, or Quit foist an ad upon the user ("Before you click Save, wo
Re:WordPad?!! (Score:4, Interesting)
I haven't ran WordPad in at least two decades.
Wordpad is the only program I know of that can open huge text files and is installed on every Windows installation. If you want to take a peek at a huge log on a client's machine, Wordpad is the way to go.
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Not sure what you consider large, but I just tried to open a 16 GB text file and WordPad flat out refused.
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"Ad Blockers are Unethical" idiocracy continues. (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft continues to demonstrate it has ZERO respect for users or their computers.
It also doesn't help that we have idiots like this:
Using an Ad Blocker Is Unethical [inc.com]
I thought Idiocracy (2006) [imdb.com]was suppose to a political satire not a documentary!
--
Can we just Ban Advertising already? Companies "visually pollute" our social environments while profiting off personal data.
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So is spying on your users and selling their privacy.
Pot, meet kettle.
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So is spying on your users and selling their privacy.
Pot, meet kettle.
I see privacy notices all the time saying "We value your privacy", and all I can think is "because we make lots of money selling it".
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Microsoft has huge amount of respect for the users of IT's computers
they are it's advertisers - you just bought the computer, what makes you think you own it...
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Where does the OS end and free apps begin? (Score:2)
Reaction was mixed because while some people saw little wrong with Microsoft advertising a free service rather than trying to encourage people to part with money
I feel like this really becomes a question of whether an installed-by-default program counts as "part of the operating system", which you purchased, vs. a freebie that you didn't.
Personally, I think it's part of the OS and, therefore, should not be an advertising platform. Same with the Start Menu.
Ads linked to more ads (Score:2)
You can try, and then the online version will have similar ads.
Just shows that modern software makers are out of ideas and don't want to admit it.
All that's left for them to do at this point seems to be just QA.
I'm using Windows (Score:2)
I know Word. I know Notepad. But what is that WordPad you're talking about?
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498 dollars in 1989 had the same buying power as 1014.85 current dollars. [futureboy.us]
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It's sort of a middle ground. Much lighter and faster than Word, but much more capable than notepad (it understands more than one kind of newline, for example). I use it whenever I need to open a text file on windows and I don't have notepad++ installed.
Just one more reason... (Score:2)
Windows 7 runs very nicely as a virtual machine in Ubuntu (free) using VirtualBox (free).
I don't see any reason why I would install Win10 on anything I own. If it becomes impossible to continue using Win7 because other software becomes incompatible with it as time passes, I will move entirely away from Windows.
What are you people bitching about? (Score:2)
Thank God for LibreOffice (Score:4, Informative)
Nobody needs that MS crap.
if anything will drive people to GNU/Linux (Score:3)
the year of the Linux desktop is getting closer than ever
Its not an ad, its a nudge (Score:3)
This is called a "nudge" in design parlance. They are trying to nudge the user to migrate to Office 365.
This is likely because they plan to EOL Wordpad and stop investing in it. Once a critical mass of users stops using Wordpad and moves to Office 365, they don't have to spend money supporting it anymore.
I'm all for moving away from Windows, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
M$ did do something really right...Active Directory has no direct competitor in the marketplace. Yeah, you can kind of fake it with SAMBA, etc., but it really only fully works well with Windows at the endpoint.
I look forward to the day that there is an open solution on par with that sort of enterprise management.
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^ this guy knows what he's talking about
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You're better off using a Single-Sign-On protocol like SAML 2.0 where you can administrate accounts through a website like Okta, OneLogin, or heck you could just use your GSuites account as an Identity Provider.
Sucks that you still need to use Active Directory to splice into your windows account logins but if you don't actually need that you can stick to web only services.
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M$ did do something really right...Active Directory has no direct competitor in the marketplace. Yeah, you can kind of fake it with SAMBA, etc., but it really only fully works well with Windows at the endpoint.
I look forward to the day that there is an open solution on par with that sort of enterprise management.
AD has no competitor in the marketplace because its the only directory service that would ever work with Windows. MS is never going to allow third parties to horn in on "their" business, if they can help it. Since directory services need hooks into the OS kernel to work well, and 95%+ of businesses have substantial Windows install base, its game over for any potential competitor.
Ads? (Score:2)
Software nobody uses or should be using anymore is suggesting what few remaining users are left should use better software... We now call these "ads"
Doesn't surprise me (Score:4, Interesting)
On the Xbox they have advertising all over, even if you buy all of the paid subscriptions applicable for the system (i.e. Xbox Live, GamePass, whatever else).
Microsoft just likes advertising, and people who use their products put up with it, so it's easy for them.
Tell me again (Score:3)
Tell me again why I should PAY for an operating system that forces ads on me?
Jesus Christ, Microsoft really has no shame. It's all about monetizing everything no matter who it pisses off or how shitty it makes their products. They know we don't want to see ads, and they just don't give a fuck.
Also, I'm totally 100% sure that if a malicious ad infects my system, Microsoft will fix it and pay me for damages, right? RIGHT?
I am SOOOOOOOOOOO glad I switched to Linux. It's been just over a year and I will never, ever go back.
LibreOffice Should Buy Ads! (Score:2)
Poor product placement. (Score:3)
Another reason. (Score:2)
Any good alternatives? (Score:4)
Anyone know of any good alternatives? The only thing I can think of is maybe ReactOS has their own version that I could just grab and use on Windows installs, but I haven't checked.
Ads? (Score:2)
I guess my question is who is being targeted?
Huh, maybe 2020 WILL be... (Score:2)
... the year of Linux on the Desktop!
Nah, just kidding!
One more domain (Score:2)
to add to the pi-hole blacklist.
More than one, most likely. Everyone should use pi-hole. Hopefully advertisers will get the message - the consumer (private, corporate, or govt) pays for the bandwidth, and they have the right to decide what comes down that pipe.
You want my attention for your latest gadget or service? Make me an offer, and we'll negotiate.
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Apples and Oranges.
* People, sadly, are used to ads in mobile apps, and websites.
* People are NOT used to ads on desktop apps or their OS.
The fact that companies can't respect your time isn't the sad part. It's that people put up with this shit.
Can we just Ban Advertising already? Ads are nothing more then visual diarrhea and propaganda. Do you not have any self respect that you allow companies to visually pollute our social environments??
Re:Double standards (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Double standards (Score:5, Funny)
There is no such thing as an unobtrusive ad.
not that anyone has noticed, anyway.
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Re:Double standards (Score:4, Insightful)
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Nah. I block them both.
What is your point again?
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So when Google does the same thing, it is business as usual because they are in a cloud, but when Microsoft gives away Windows 10 updates and then show unobtrusive messages for related products it is an outrage?
-Bill
Yes, because 'unobtrusive ads' didn't work the last go-round. They tried it in Office 2010 Starter Edition. If it was profitable to do unobtrusive ads in a variant of Word whose functionality was pretty damn close to Wordpad, except for the splash screen, there would have been Starter versions of 2013 and 2016, but there weren't. The failure of unobtrusive ads in Office 2010 leads me to believe that the ads in Wordpad will be far less unobtrusive...starting with calling into question the amount of screen sp
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Well, common sense, of course! If Microsoft put in the time to add this feature, surely it's because so many users have been screaming for it. The software is for users, after all. If users are insisting that Microsoft help them to become better informed about interesting products and services, Microsoft is going to listen to their users and give them what they want!
And if your so-called "capable freeware solutions" fail
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It's not like people are going to stop using Windows and switch to Linux.
I did, and so have more than a few people I know. It's not always painless, but pretty close.
We're all just sick of Microsoft. They peaked with Win 7 and it's been a rusty downhill slide ever since.
Years ago I predicted that the holy grail for MS was to make Windows a subscription service, and whaddya know, here we are.