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Businesses Privacy

Barclays Installed Big Brother-style Spyware on Employees' Computers (cityam.com) 108

Barclays has been criticised by HR experts and privacy campaigners after the bank installed "Big Brother" employee monitoring software in its London headquarters. From a report: Introduced as a pilot last week, the technology monitors Barclays workers' activity on their computers, and in some instances admonishes staff in daily updates to them if they are not deemed to have been active enough -- which is described as being in "the zone." The system tells staff to "avoid breaks" as it monitors their productivity in real-time, and records activities such as toilet visits as "unaccounted activity." A whistleblower at the banking giant told City A.M. that "the stress this is causing is beyond belief" and that it "shows an utter disregard for employee wellbeing." "Employees are worried to step away from their desks, have full lunch breaks, take bathroom breaks or even get up for water as we are not aware of the repercussions this might have on our statistics," they added. Big Brother Watch, a privacy campaign group, described the technology as "creepy." The software, provided by Sapience, has been rolled out throughout the product control department within the investment bank division at the firm's Canary Wharf headquarters. After the publication of the story, Barclays announced it is scrapping the program.
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Barclays Installed Big Brother-style Spyware on Employees' Computers

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  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @05:42AM (#59749998)

    ... is that anybody halfway competent will look for a job elsewhere. The dross will stay, but they will be more sick and perform even worse.

    This has never worked and cannot work. But the utterly incompetent MBA bean-counters behind this did likely do not even minimal research and would not be capable of understanding how "work" and "productivity" actually works. All they can do is count minutes.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      ... is that anybody halfway competent will look for a job elsewhere.

      No, they will simply start surfing for porn on their own, non employer provided, devices.

    • But how will professional banking staff in London's banking district, during a time of unusually high employment, possibly find another job!?

      Am curious what this actually measures though. Would a day spent filling in random numbers on excel be considered productive? I've never been a great fan of mistaking metrics for some sort of productivity measurement, but I can't see how the system described could even come close.
      • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @06:32AM (#59750056)

        The thing is, this does not need to measure anything really. Well, it does need to create some reminders or the like to give the impression it is watching. But like other tech aimed at controlling behavior (e.g. DLP tech, surveillance cameras, etc.) the main goal is to create fear. It does not actually need to work or work well for that.

        Fear does decrease productivity sharply though, as people suddenly spend a lot of time looking over their shoulders and have massively higher stress levels. Authoritarians are incapable of understanding that though ("if you have nothing to hide..." and "everything must have its order") and that is one of the main thing that makes them a force of destruction.

        • Those things may not work "now", but down the road it will as monitoring AI programs become more sophisticated and trigger certain alerts, if say, the employee takes one too many sips of coffee or moves her head away from the computer monitor to look elsewhere. Humans may not be able to watch things all the time, but AI helpers will soon mitigate that. "Alert! Alert! You are in violation!"
          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            You misunderstand. These things are even more effective if they do _not_ work. Because then there will be a random element and fear-induced paranoia will be far more effective at controlling people than some actually working alter system where you can work out when you will not be in violation.

            More effective that is if you want your employees completely miserable and minimally productive. The whole approach is a complete fail.

            • Yeah, you are referring to the panopticon where you might or might not be watched. You don't know until you get tapped. But someone else mentioned here, about my point, that Amazon already has the model I mentioned. There is this constant cattle prod pushing you. My scenario can work if the punishment is strong enough. Your scenario is to keep rolling the dice until the inevitable thing you do not want to happen does. Both scenarios are dystopia. I live in a city and there are already lots of cameras with m
              • by gweihir ( 88907 )

                Well, you can only do the constant prodding if the work is sufficiently simple. Amazon warehouse workers are basically just there because robots cannot yet do all of the sorting and packaging, but what is left is pretty menial and the results at the interface are easy to monitor automatically.

                As to cameras, yes, bad things will come. In particular to make people fear them, they will need to do the random arrest "based on camera data" (whether true or not is immaterial) and maybe the random kill, just to kee

      • I've never been a great fan of mistaking metrics for some sort of productivity measurement, but I can't see how the system described could even come close.

        Isn't that what metrics are - a productivity measurement? If you're not turning out X number of widgets a day, surely your 2% salary increase will be halved.

        • by sjames ( 1099 )

          The problems are legion. First, not every job is producing widgets. The metrics generally don't measure everything you need to know. Fire the guy whose productivity metrics are 5% below average and find out that the unmeasured things he was doing were keeping the line running. Now you're metrics are in the tank.

      • If it's like some "systems" I've seen, all it does is measure user input intervals, so it looks for keystrokes and mouse movement. Not WHAT the movement or input is, just input at all. So that's the sort of thing any hardware tinkerer could defeat with a cheap USB mouse they slapped a small motor into the bottom and a circuit to generate random movement from the motor. Just throw the mouse in your drawer while it's plugged in and then surf the web on your phone while it "produces" away in a random jiggle

    • by lgw ( 121541 )

      This has never worked and cannot work. But the utterly incompetent MBA bean-counters behind this did likely do not even minimal research and would not be capable of understanding how "work" and "productivity" actually works. All they can do is count minutes.

      Amazon uses this style of monitoring for their warehouse workers. For a while, I worked on that software. Only time I ever left a job due to ethical concerns.

      The sad thing is, it's obviously bad for Amazon too. They have one Hell of a time retaining workers, and the ramp up for a new workers is expensive. I can't go into numbers, but let's just say that what turnover costs them is significantly larger that what they squeeze out in added productivity through constant monitoring.

      And all that's in a job wh

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Thanks for the info. Your observations do not surprise me one bit. If work is more sophisticated than what Charlie did in "Modern Times", this approach is a complete fail. Incidentally, remember that "lunch machine"? Seems the demented "minute counters" were active even back then....

    • No!

      People need to fight this shit anywhere it crops up. If you leave and itâ(TM)s kept in place it will crop up somewhere else. Then eventually those leaving wonâ(TM)t find new jobs at places without it and theyâ(TM)ll be powerless to stop it.

      Imagine if this was used and a productivity score gets attached to you like a credit score and then you donâ(TM)t get job offers because everyone wants a certain score.

      Once youâ(TM)re blacklisted then your essentially broke and homeless.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Well, I rather think every company that does this eventually goes down the drains because they cannot get anybody competent anymore. But sure, YMMV and there are different approaches. However you should definitely not just accept something like this.

        Fortunately, I live in a country where doing something like this would be highly illegal and probably would send the ones that signed off on it to jail.

      • Then work! When you work at a place you do what they pay you, not to surf porn or watch YouTube all day! Work hard and your boss has no reason to watch over you. Theyâ(TM)re not your babysitter, they pay you to do something they want. Itâ(TM)s a little thing some call capitalism.

    • I have received one of those MBA degrees, and no where in my course work did it state Spy Performance software is a good idea.
      Actually my MBA Research shows the usefulness of taking breaks, and general socializing, is a net benefit.
      Performance metrics need to be only measured by output and carefully classified for detailed job functions.
      Eg A Database Programmer will have different output metrics as an interface programmer.
      But breaking and time off from the grind, is often a net improvement to performance. 1

    • Exactly, that is why Jeb Bush stayed with them as a consultant, for $1 million per year --- it's not as if anyone would hire that dood elsewhere . . .
  • Why is this news? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NoNonAlphaCharsHere ( 2201864 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @05:42AM (#59750000)
    Amazon has been acting this way to their warehouse employees for years. Talking to another employee will get you fired. Looking at your phone will get you fired. Unscheduled bathroom breaks will get you fired. The only new twist to this story is that it's happening to white-collar employees at their keyboards.
    • by TheReaperD ( 937405 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @06:20AM (#59750042)

      It's the 'us' vs 'them' mentality. We white-collar workers tend to think of ourselves above 'common' wage slaves such as janitors, warehouse workers, etc. What white-collar workers tend to refuse to acknowledge is that management doesn't regard us as any better than janitors or warehouse workers. They see us all as near-worthless plebeians that cost them money and their bonuses. As soon as they can replace you with a robot, you're gone. They won't even give it a second thought. White-collar workers think they're better so they don't need unions and the companies exploit this vanity to screw us over.

      • A lot of white collar workers in banks hold a LOT of behind the scenes power (eg software/DB/network maintenance, trading, customer relations etc) and could - in theory - cause the bank and its boardroom assclowns a lot of problems if push came to shove.

        • A lot of white collar workers in banks hold a LOT of behind the scenes power (eg software/DB/network maintenance, trading, customer relations etc) and could - in theory - cause the bank and its boardroom assclowns a lot of problems if push came to shove.

          Wasn't this the entire premise of the movie "Fight Club"? Except it was the blue collar workers at the time.

        • They might even burn the whole place down if their stapler doesn't get returned!
        • by sjames ( 1099 )

          But WILL they? Or will they just keep making sheep noises and hating life?

      • Very nicely and aptly articulated, TheReaperD! Any sane and informed person would concur.
    • Looking at your phone will get you fired.

      I certainly hope so, there's an explicit rule against phones on the warehouse floor for security and privacy reasons.

      • by lgw ( 121541 )

        Except, there are no legitimate security and privacy reasons. The actual reasons are about liability and OSHA complains if anyone had a camera. Those warehouses are madhouses.

        • Let me just photograph the paperwork of the guy who ordered a dildo, and while I'm at it let me photograph camera blindspots for the upcoming heist.

          • Thus began the great dildo heist of 2020.
          • by lgw ( 121541 )

            None of that is visible to Amazon warehouse workers. I mean, the dildo is, but it just goes in the box. There's no order or address associated with it that he ever sees. You clearly have no idea how these places work. It's all miles of conveyor belts and a mix of robots and completely robotic human labor.

            And "heist"? You seriously have no idea what these places are like. Are you imagining they're ever empty? Are you imagining you could find your way from one end to the other? They're massive 3D maze

      • Looking at your phone will get you fired.

        I certainly hope so, there's an explicit rule against phones on the warehouse floor for security and privacy reasons.

        Safety is much higher on the list of reasons. Even a buzz of a notification in your pocket while you're driving a forklift can be enough to distract you from driving properly.

    • At Amazon, though, the purpose is to fire the employee before they become vested. A crucial financial ploy . . .
  • Layoff insurance (Score:5, Insightful)

    by indytx ( 825419 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @06:13AM (#59750034)

    Because this sounds like an awful place to work, one has to wonder if there is going to be a round of downsizing on the way. Maybe the data wasn't going to be used, but if someone figured out that employees with longer tenure and seniority (and who maybe get paid more) were not banging away at their computers as much as the friendless drones, it could be used as an excuse to let the more senior, more expensive employees got Someone could argue that this was going to be an experiment to get around claims of age discrimination. Okay, that does sound a little cynical.

    • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Or the implementation of such measures would reduce the need for layoffs, as a large number of people would voluntarily look elsewhere as a result of this system.

      • Or the implementation of such measures would reduce the need for layoffs, as a large number of people would voluntarily look elsewhere as a result of this system.

        I am cynical enough to believe it, but the problem is that employees are not interchangeable. I am not sure most MBAs are aware of this, but when you treat employees like shit, the good ones go elsewhere....and big tech is perpetually hiring. So you're left with an odd assortment of people with issues at home (think illness or ill loved one) who don't want to risk changing hours and insurance and those who either thrive on chaos (psychopaths and sociopaths who enjoy it or the apathetic who ignore everythi

    • There could be something in this - I have a different indicator though.

      HSBC were the first bank in the UK to kick out contractors (ostensibly because of new bone-headed tax rules that will, broadly speaking make hiring contractors harder). Barclays and Lloyds have followed suit.

      HSBC of course have recently announced a huge decrease in global headcount. Losing the UK contractors doesn't change headcount, but it makes it much easier to see where headcount isn't really doing anything useful or where there's a

    • Okay, that does sound a little cynical.

      That doesn't mean you're wrong...

    • There has been a lot of noise about Brexit and London losing its financial center status. This monitoring scheme does sound like a way to do damage control should London financial institutions start to suffer because of Brexit.

      They can lose some people due to the attrition this will cause (which is a free layoff) and then get more free layoffs as terminations-for-cause backed by spyware productivity loss stats.

      And all of these terminations could also be free from any new disincentives planned by the govern

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        And the only people left will be the ones that have the highest click metrics because they make so many mistakes that every other action is backspace and clicking undo. OOPS.

  • by xack ( 5304745 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @06:23AM (#59750044)
    They pay their executives millions yet they close rural bank branches and cut interest rates to near zero. And when that isn’t enough they do shit like this. We need a banking revolution but a lot of the energy for that was wasted on cryptocurrencies instead of true bank reforms.
    • by Archtech ( 159117 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @06:42AM (#59750070)

      They pay their executives millions yet they close rural bank branches and cut interest rates to near zero.

      The purpose of running such big financial corporations isn't only to make the select few super-rich. It is to maximize the difference between their way of life and that of everyone else.

      As the "executives" get plenty of leisure and are allowed to work as and when they wish, it heightens their pleasure to see the rank-and-file minions reduced essentially to the status of slaves.

      See David Graeber's excellent book "Bullshit Jobs", passim. Especially:

      "At least a galley slave knows that he’s oppressed. An office worker forced to sit for seven and a half hours a day pretending to type into a screen for $18 an hour, or a junior member of a consultancy team forced to give the exact same seminar on innovation and creativity week in and week out for $50,000 a year, is just confused...

      "I think we can conclude that from these [student work] jobs, students learn at least five things:
      1. how to operate under others’ direct supervision;
      2. how to pretend to work even when nothing needs to be done;
      3. that one is not paid money to do things, however useful or important, that one actually enjoys;
      4. that one is paid money to do things that are in no way useful or important and that one does not enjoy; and
      5. that at least in jobs requiring interaction with the public, even when one is being paid to carry out tasks that one does not enjoy, one also has to pretend to be enjoying it....

      " ...being trapped in a job where one is treated as if one were usefully employed, and has to play along with the pretense that one is usefully employed, but at the same time is keenly aware that one is not usefully employed, would have devastating effects. It’s not just an assault on the person’s sense of self-importance but also a direct attack on the very foundations of the sense that one even is a self. A human being unable to have a meaningful impact on the world ceases to exist...

      "If make-believe play is the purest expression of human freedom, make-believe work imposed by others is the purest expression of lack of freedom".

      • I hate whey you guys/gals/zims post book links because I usually end up buying the Kindle version so I can be in/stay in the know. :)
  • they needed public outcry before they realized this was the wrong thing to do?

  • by Archtech ( 159117 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @06:43AM (#59750072)

    "The software, provided by Sapience, has been rolled out throughout the product control department within the investment bank division at the firm's Canary Wharf headquarters".

    "Sapience" means "wisdom".

  • This is a big so what!!! When I spent a year at Capital One they had all sorts of "software" on your laptop computers and your phone! They monitored everything - your email, who you connected to with Slack, everything! It made me realize that I can never work for a company that monitored you all the time, and put incompetent people in charge!
    • This sounds like the basic monitoring/archiving most financial institutions are required to do by law.
      • Point out the law to me that makes this mandatory.
        • In what jurisdiction? In the EU it is part of the Markets in Financial Instruments Directive. In Canada, the IIROC. In the USA, FINRA 10-06/11-39. Or SEC Rule 17a-3 & 17a-4. Granted FINRA and IIROC are not government entities, so fair enough I misspoke a bit. The point is still valid. The basic idea of all of these is that communications of all sorts be archived so they can be checked for evidence of insider trading, illegal frontrunning, and similar crimes.
  • by Cederic ( 9623 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @07:00AM (#59750098) Journal

    From a report:

    Barclays says it has scrapped a system that tracked the time employees spent at their desks and sent warnings to those spending too long on breaks.

    -- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/bus... [bbc.co.uk]

    • From a report:

      Barclays says it has scrapped a system that tracked the time employees spent at their desks and sent warnings to those spending too long on breaks.

      >

      ... Barclays is now planning to replace all of its employees with AI technology in the form of C3PO model robots with their personality traits modelled on those of 0-0-0. Barclays management is said to expect great things from this strategy.

      • by Cederic ( 9623 )

        Comically someone invited me a couple of weeks ago to apply for a job at Barclays head office. I declined, but mainly because it's not the role I'm after.

  • Yeah, they'll scrap this one and implement a new one and this time they will obscure it better from the employees. The only issue from their standpoint is that they got caught.

    • Almost correct. They do not need to scrap the existing program or uninstall anything. They just change what they monitor and do not remind slackers that they have been caught. The press release says they have stopped something - but they are free to monitor something else Of course this would not relate to pregnant women (how dare they take more toilet breaks) of those sick in chemotherapy, or older women with waterworks problem, trade union activity and possibly fire drills. But any good employer would not
    • They don't even have to scrap this one. They just turn off the notifications to the worker and send a report to his boss instead. Let the boss take care of it in the next "why aren't you at your desk" review.

  • Whoever thought this was a good idea to implement should be fired. They demonstrate that they don't understand how to base decisions on real evidence.

    So should everyone working at Sapience, pushing bullshit onto people without any evidence that their surveillance will actually increase productivity.
    • Heads won't roll (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @07:28AM (#59750160) Homepage

      You can be 100% sure this idiotic idea , even if it didn't originally come from the top was certainly given approval from there. This is the typical kind of thing the sociopaths in the boardroom would think was a good idea - unless applied to themselves of course, because they're "special."

      • Boardroom people are special. It's nice to fantasize about fat cats sitting around lighting cigars with $100 bills, but the reality is they are always at their desk. They are at their desk at work. They are at their desk at home. They are at their desk at 2am when their phones go off. They are at their desk at the weekend.

        I know a few people who sit on boards. Just know them loosely, god knows they never have any time to do anything outside of work.

        • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

          Sure, all those golf courses are filled up with working classes with the car park full of fords and skodas.

          You're funny, you should do stand up.

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Friday February 21, 2020 @08:12AM (#59750238)
    A long ago I had employer that attempted to monitor employee inactivity. Back then it was very primitive software, so you could avoid it by having a mouse shaker. This solved a problem for a while, where management were shown feel-good reports that were not even remotely accurate...until some idiot forgot to log out and turn it off while going on vacation and the impossible utilization got flagged for investigation. I didn't stick around to see how it all played out and the company is no longer around to find out how it ended.
  • That is all you can reasonably expect to get from any employee on average and it has nearly been scientifically proven as well... nearly.

    Can you get more... yes... you can occasionally push people for short periods to go past this... but not for long and definitely not without health risks.

    I wonder how long it will take to figure this out. But think there are other problems that create this scenario, because when I am working on something for myself... that directly benefits me and not "the man" I am able

    • Your post strikes me as informed by a fairly anthropological framing. For the last ten years, I live and work abroad in my vocation and an anthropological "lens" lends itself to descriptive and constructive vantages less prone to a range of biases and syllogisms that I hear and read expressed by many, maybe a majority.

      Kurt Vonnegut wrote that anthropology is a poetry. I've found most people don't care for poetry very much.
  • We only hear one side with this... Was it a corporate initiative to understand how employees worked and what could make them more efficient (as most corporations are attempting to do now with ever tightening budgets). Also, if you're on a corporate system they have a right to track and review everything. If people are afraid, that's a bad change management process that didn't properly inform those being monitored what things mean and what measurements are... That doesn't mean the whole thing was wrong an
  • Quit! Its your only option, management never listens.
  • Put one on the keyboard before going to the loo.

  • In my company the PC application nags me periodically to take breaks and do exercises.
  • How dare they treat white collar information workers like whole industries treat their blue collar information workers
  • I would go a step further from calling Barclays treatment of their staff as "creepy" to describing it more accurately as "psychologically abusive". I've worked at call centers where there were metrics calculated for every break you take, bathroom, water, breather, lunch, etc. That was stressful enough with weekly competing metrics over it. But Barclays behavior is beyond the pale with getting in their staff's heads with verbiage like in "the zone" and daily nagging of everything they do enough for the s
  • ... all this will do is cause workers to unite and create a wave of unions.

    Not sure this is a bad thing. Wages are really stagnant compared to productivity and profits.

  • It happens all the time. Some genius decides that an open office configuration with tons of noise are somehow productive.
    Then productivity falls and people retreats to the toilet now and again to rest their ears and brain as it is virtually impossible to be "in the zone" in that environment.
    Some will find another job, they can't get new hires when the new people they are hiring sees the work place so they conduct the interview at a different location and they only get to see their new work place after work

  • I was asked to look at web filtering for a 250k user company. I grabbed their logs and ran it through one of these systems. Lots and lots of porn sites... And I saw one person who spent 8 hours at work browsing porn...

  • Ha ! I once worked in a collection agency, the only job I ever quit without a new one lined up. The boss there had a 4 minute timer on the bathroom lights. If things took longer, you finished in the dark. This bit of inhumanity didn't extend to the executive washroom.
  • I was once at a sleazy company owned by Baird Private Equity --- today called Baird Capital --- which illegally placed keyloggers on the company PCS --- illegal as they suggested we should access our private and personal email accounts from the company PCs, etc., plus illegal in the state of Washington to do so without notifying the employees of such!

    They also bugged the landlines, but at that point nobody used such, instead using their personal cell phones for private communications.
    One of the soon-
  • They probably mean that they're just going to disable the desktop notifications and continue collecting the employee "productivity" metrics in the background. As long as management gets the report at the end of the day so they know who to fire and who to promote based on who does the best job of looking busy, they'll be happy.

  • Once a company is on M365/Azure AD, Microsoft is providing "engagement reports" which basically do the same thing:
    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-... [microsoft.com]

    The employees are sent a nice innocuous email telling them that Office is helping keep track of their contacts, communications and who they work with as a helpful aid in digital transformation or whatever. But under the hood, Microsoft is also surfacing this to administrators...so it's the equivalent of monitoring toilet breaks and figuring out who's talking to w

  • We should adjust your pay according to the proportion of time you spend goofing off versus actual time on your job. If you sit at your desk on Discord and Reddit like 6 out of 8 hours, well we should pay you 25% of the maximum rate we agree to when you were hired. Simple.

    Really, people need to understand what it's like to dedicate 40, 50, or 60 hours a week to an employer. How much of your life your really lose when you work a job where you give it your full undivided attention. And how much better robots a

    • ...and if you hire me as a salaried employee, then only give me work that takes me 10-20 hours/week....?........

      From my experience, having 40h of work to fill a week is a blessing, the hard weeks are the ones where I need to "fill 20 hours" without goofing off. There's only so much "reading documentation" and "learning tangentially related languages" one can justify..

  • This is finance. This is the life they envision for everyone that is not at the executive level in finance.

    It's the same mentality that used TARP bailouts to pay executive performance bonuses first.

"The vast majority of successful major crimes against property are perpetrated by individuals abusing positions of trust." -- Lawrence Dalzell

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