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Firefox Mozilla

Mozilla Installs Scheduled Telemetry Task On Windows With Firefox 75 (ghacks.net) 102

Posted by EditorDavid from the data-on-default-browsers dept.
Ghacks writes: Observant Firefox users on Windows who have updated the web browser to Firefox 75 may have noticed that the upgrade brought along with it a new scheduled tasks. The scheduled task is also added if Firefox 75 is installed on a Windows device. The task's name is Firefox Default Browser Agent and it is set to run once per day...
Mozilla says:
  • "We're collecting information related to the system's current and previous default browser setting, as well as the operating system locale and version. This data cannot be associated with regular profile based telemetry data..."
  • "We'll respect user configured telemetry opt-out settings by looking at the most recently used Firefox profile."
  • "We'll respect custom Enterprise telemetry related policy settings if they exist. We'll also respect policy to specifically disable this task."

"Collecting telemetry is one way we're able to ensure we can understand default browser trends in a way that helps us improve Firefox. It's our hope that by better understanding more about our users and their choices around browser preferences, we can continue to build a better Firefox."

Long-time Slashdot reader AmiMoJo writes, "Opting out can be done via the Privacy & Security section of the preferences screen. You can view collected telemetry and view your current settings at about:telemetry."

Bleeping Computer also notes that by default, "For some time, Firefox has been collecting telemetry data about how you use the browser, such as the number of web pages you visit, safebrowsing information, the number of open tabs and windows, what add-ons are installed, and more. This telemetry data is kept for 13 months and IP addresses listed in server logs are deleted every 30 days.

"On my computer, Firefox has collected over 400KB of information."


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Mozilla Installs Scheduled Telemetry Task On Windows With Firefox 75 More

Mozilla Installs Scheduled Telemetry Task On Windows With Firefox 75

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  • Why? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Jarwulf ( 530523 )
    Its not like they've actually cared about what users want or need or how to even be profitable for years now so why do they need all this personalized data?

    • So they can actually see the plight of the users, when they beg and scream.

      Because what else would they fap to? :D

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      CoC?

    • Its not like they've actually cared about what users want or need or how to even be profitable for years now so why do they need all this personalized data?

      No, it's not like they actually listened to you personally whining. They actually exist which makes them a long way from perfect and they're fighting a very well funded and aggressive adversary, to the point that they've seen off their old aggressive, well funded adversary. And yet they still manage to produce the best product in the category. I guess th

    • I wanted to see if anyone else had the same question. Do you think Mozilla is trying to nail down how it's loosing its market share? It's not like their product is bad, or substantially worse than the competition. I reckon they detect foul play... Nothing new in the browser sphere. I am really looking forward to see how competition plays out for Google. In particular to their long forgotten 'do no evil' ethics. To think that this catchphrase made Microsoft blush. What will it take for developers to say eno

  • Oh God... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Parker Lewis ( 999165 ) on Saturday April 11, 2020 @04:47PM (#59933618)
    Make it opt in, asking during install. Because everything we need now is to make open source software install telemetry in a time where they should be the guardians of privacy.
    • I'm also curious about the legality of this in some places. Opt-in is the only reasonable option
    • They don't make it opt-in, even if you've already opted out. See AC response to Re:So..? in this thread.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It used to be opt-in but nobody opted in so they changed it to opt-out.

      https://wiki.mozilla.org/Progr... [mozilla.org]

    • I happily opt in to Mozilla's telemetry. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

      Now I can appreciate the privacy nuts, but from a distance. I like what RMS has given the world and I can appreciate his single minded devotion to privacy with the hardware he runs etc. I don't have quite that inclination. I don't have the time or money etc (I would quite like a Talos II, mind, but I'm not getting one). I do however value a good deal of my privacy. Not as much as some, but like most people I'm prepared to make

  • So they want to grab every Firefox profile they can get to see if they have anything they can sell!

    Just my 2 cents ;)

    • You did not read one word from TFS, did you?

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by gl4ss ( 559668 )

        look, why they need to collect the info when I'm not running firefox?

        they had some deal with someone on how to make money from this info. that's the only sensible explanation really. and to say that something thats sent from your computer to their servers couldn't in some cases be connected to you is a laugh.

  • The world is NOT getting better, it's getting worse.

  • So they are criminals now... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday April 11, 2020 @04:52PM (#59933636)

    The DGPR states clearly that any such thing must be "opt-in" and may not be "opt-out". What they are doing is illegal all over Europe.

    • Good thing they're grabbing locale data then, so they'll know who to stop watching. /s

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Good thing they're grabbing locale data then, so they'll know who to stop watching. /s

        They are not allowed to do that either. They must default to no collection.

    • So what is the big bad EU going to do with a company based in the USA? Write them a letter?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by pahles ( 701275 )
        It hasn't stopped them from fining Google and Apple...

      • So what is the big bad EU going to do with a company based in the USA? Write them a letter?

        Fine the crap out of them. Google was fined £2.1Bn in 2017 for online shopping antitrust rules, £3.9Bn in 2018 for using Android to cement the dominance of its search engine and in 2019 they were fined £1.27 Bn when Google placed exclusivity clauses in contracts with publishers which it says prohibited them from placing any search adverts from competitors on their search results pages. If they want to continue to operate in the worlds first/second largest market they have to pay the fines.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Indeed. In theory, Mozilla could decide to lose any and all revenue coming from the EU, but that is not really practical and they need that money.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I have contacted them at compliance@mozilla.com asking them for their justification for making it opt out. Looking at their privacy policy they don't justify it anywhere. The only way they can do it is if they have a legitimate business need such as preventing abuse or to provide a service the user requested, neither of which apply here.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Thanks. Will be interesting to see whether they respond. From some IT audits I did recently, I have the impression that quite a few developers and IT people have not yet realized what the GDPR actually requires of them.

    • Honest question: What would be the legal standing of this situation:

      American company distributes freely downloadable and free-to-use software. The installer says clearly that "This product handles data in ways that conflict with GDPR. If you live in a country covered by GDPR, do not use it.". Then a German citizen installs and runs it anyway.

      Is the American company still liable?

  • Firefox is being sabotaged (Score:4, Insightful)

    by xack ( 5304745 ) on Saturday April 11, 2020 @04:56PM (#59933644)
    By companies that only want one browser engine to exist (Blink/Chromium) so they can track and drm the web for profit. They do this by making Firefox less desirable to use for geeks they are making it so they are less likely to install it on their friends and families computers and in companies so they can entrench monoculture. They tried before with Internet Explorer and failed. Now they are coming after Mozilla. We need to stand up to these bullies and defend Firefox for the sake of web freedom. We need to stage a protest at Mozilla Foundation by getting rid of developers that put in crap like the new address bar and telemetry and make Firefox in control of the users once more.

    • Hmm, I actually liked the "awesome bar" back then, that everybody here complained about because it was different.

      I disliked them failing to absolutely make sure that the new safer add-on API was as powerful as the old one, and instead killed Firefox's very point and advantage it had ridden to success on. (Firebug , Greasemonkey, Stylish and Adblock(!!) literally allowed us to take back the web, and changed the whole game OMG Greasemonkey was great. Everyone who never used it, truly missed something.)

      • Hmm, I actually liked the "awesome bar" back then, that everybody here complained about because it was different.

        I dislike many things that it does that I don't want and can't disable (or enable, like limiting the drop-downs to typed only) anymore, but hate it simply because they call it the "awesome bar".

      • Not possible. That's a contradiction (Score:4, Informative)

        by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Saturday April 11, 2020 @05:50PM (#59933818) Journal

        > make sure that the new safer add-on API was as powerful as the old one

        You do understand that's impossible as stated, right?
        It can't be both safer and as powerful. Safer means people can't do as many bad things. As powerful means people can still do all the same things.

        It's the same as saying "make sure the new lighter basket is as heavy as the old one", a contradiction.

        • It's the same as saying "make sure the new lighter basket is as heavy as the old one", a contradiction.

          I think what people ask for is the counterpart to "make sure the new lighter basket is rated to carry at least the same payload weight as the old one."

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            In any case it's not technically possible because the old add on API let them do all kinds of unsafe, crazy stuff that introduced their own vulnerabilities.

            Mozilla does in fact offer more control than the Blink/Chrome API does. For example they have a way for add-ons to delete site data on a per-site basis. Chrome can delete cookies on a per-site basis but not other stored data which is used for tracking.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by DeVilla ( 4563 )

              OK. I want an extension API to allow me to disable CTRL-Q again, or at least to make it ask "Do you really want to close all # of your browser windows and lose all that work?" If allowing an extension to override a key is too dangerous, then why isn't it too dangerous to allow web pages to override my keys for text search, scrolling, page navigation, etc?

              I can't see why allowing a web extension I install to improve the UI like tab mix plus or the old tab-sets that used to be built into firefox is bad, bu

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

                You can make it ask you by setting these preferences:

                browser.sessionstore.warnOnQuit=true
                browser.warnOnQuit=true

    • LOL firefox has been self sabotaged by Mozilla for years now where your privacy and security has been for sale to the highest bidder.

    • By companies that only want one browser engine to exist (Blink/Chromium) so they can track and drm the web for profit.

      Unfortunately the public is too stupid. One look at the modern PC gaming landscape and it's monuments to the fact that the public is a bunch of morons, they'd been stealing (aka client servering) PC game ssince the late 90'ss with ultima online and everquest. They saw it print money which lead us to steam, valve has been infecting PC games with malware since 2004. Stealing games outright since 2009 with TF2 and dota 2. The internet has made stealing software and hacking everyones computer by client-s

    • I don't understand this conspiracy. Chromium is open source and lots of companies/projects develop their own variant with different features and privacy aspects. The engine seemingly has nothing to do with privacy.

      Also while we're talking about choice in browser engines, why? Developers naturally coalesce around a single engine for a reason. It's just easier to test for. It was IE a decade ago, now it's chromium. With web technology it's pretty much proven at this point that simple standards aren't enoug

  • With a detailed info dialog in front of it, telling us what is collected, by whom, and why.

    Otherwise it'd be flat-out illegal.

    (By the way: How is Windows handling that? I did not see them do this, but I didn't install Windows anywhere for a long time now.)

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      There are allowances for technical data collection needed to maintain the service. It's the same thing as "required tracking" on websites that you can't turn off.

  • I looked at the settings and they are exactly the same thing that they were when i switched to Firefox last year: off. one of the first things i did when i switched was to look at all the settings and turned on or off anything that wasn't something i was interested in, shouldn't everyone do the same?
  • I don't understand why it's so hard for developers these days to understand that it's not ok to spy on their users. Personally, I don't care if you believe that the information you collect is sufficiently anonymized, or that hackers will never compromise the servers where you store it, or that all the personnel who will ever have access to that data is loyal and diligent. You can make these assumptions when it's your own personal information to be at stake, not mine. Get off my lawn already.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      Money. When someone's livelihood depends on not understanding something, it's very hard to make them understand that something.

  • This stinks of an internal effort to kill Firefox.

  • I don't remember ever looking at the setting, and when I look at mine the telemetry is disabled. It's possible that I went through my security settings a long time ago and disabled it--but if it's new with version 75, how is that possible?

  • Instead of spying on your users, how about asking them if you need information?

  • "We'll also respect policy to specifically disable this task."

    I like how organizations have to explicitly tell us, over and over, that they'll actually honor their policies.

    Reminds me of how the checkbox to disable offline data storage literally does not work, and you have to set multiple about:config settings instead (and if you miss one of the settings, the thing will remain fully enabled -- great when they decide to sneak in yet another new setting in a new version).

    I don't trust Mozilla anymore. I switched to a Firefox fork a long time ago.

  • Telemetry. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jimbo ( 1370 ) on Sunday April 12, 2020 @12:23AM (#59935172)

    I'm happy to have telemetry enabled in Mozilla to help make it better. I hope they somehow manage to stay alive, seeing as they're our last feeble defense of an open WWW which is alarmingly close to becoming the Google Wide Web.

    • At least someone here understands. Most of Slashdot is simply filled with people who don't understand why Mozilla don't understand how they use their browser and at the same time complain about the fact that Mozilla try.

    • You really believe telemetry makes things better? MS collected telemetry for years and the end result was Windows 8.

      Users have complained for years openly in public that they hate the UI redesigns, and the organization just doesn't listen. Remember the clusterfuck that was Lightspeed? People made it clear that was NOT popular, and Mozilla has been slowly implementing those changes anyway.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        You really believe telemetry makes things better? MS collected telemetry for years and the end result was Windows 8.

        Users have complained for years openly in public that they hate the UI redesigns, and the organization just doesn't listen. Remember the clusterfuck that was Lightspeed? People made it clear that was NOT popular, and Mozilla has been slowly implementing those changes anyway.

        Telemetry is the ultimate in democracy. It does work, but only if you're in the majority group that voted that way. As th

  • Mozilla / Firefox has always captured telemetry to help with bug fixing and metrics gathering. It was one of the first apps I can remember which used to send off crash reports so that devs could see a stack trace of where the code fell over. Just turn it off if you don't want it.

    Anyway Firefox 75 has a bigger problem which is that stupid looking incredible-expanding-address-bar. It looks ridiculous when Firefox launches or a user opens a new tab or window.

  • Having telemetry disabled won't stop the new scheduled task from being installed. And disabling or deleting the task only works until the next firefox update, which re-enables it. This will stop it from doing that:

    Firefox 75 has a new policy setting, DisableDefaultBrowserAgent, set it to 1.
    There are a few ways of creating firefox policies. On my Win 7 box, I added the following registry entry:

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Mozilla\Firefox]
    "DisableDefaultBrowserAgent"=dword:00000001

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