Microsoft Confirms Windows 10X is Coming To Laptops Amid Big Jump in Windows Usage (theverge.com) 94
Microsoft is confirming today that it's planning to refocus Windows 10X on single-screen devices. "The world is a very different place than it was last October when we shared our vision for a new category of dual-screen Windows devices," explains Panos Panay, Microsoft's Windows and devices chief. From a report: "With Windows 10X, we designed for flexibility, and that flexibility has enabled us to pivot our focus toward single-screen Windows 10X devices that leverage the power of the cloud to help our customers work, learn and play in new ways." Microsoft isn't saying exactly when single-screen devices like laptops will support Windows 10X, nor when dual-screen devices will launch with the OS. However, Windows 10X will launch on single-screen devices first. "We will continue to look for the right moment, in conjunction with our OEM partners, to bring dual-screen devices to market," says Panay. Microsoft is reprioritizing Windows 10X for laptops and single-screen devices because of the coronavirus pandemic. The software maker has seen a 75 percent year-over-year increase in the time spent in Windows 10. More people are turning to using their laptops or PCs instead of a smartphone or tablet during the lockdowns we've seen worldwide to work or study.
WFH (work from home) (Score:1)
Re:WFH (work from home) (Score:5, Funny)
"The world is a very different place than it was last October when we shared our vision for a new category of dual-screen Windows devices,"
"People are already used to restrictions created by one virus, so it's now much easier for us to hit them with another".
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"The world is a very different place than it was last October when we shared our vision for a new category of dual-screen Windows devices,"
"People are already used to restrictions created by one virus, so it's now much easier for us to hit them with another".
In other words, there were no takers for the Microsoft offering. They now are looking for another milk-cow. (French say vache-a-lait), where a steady stream of renewals feeds the major shareholders. MS. It is time to look at what you deliver and scale down your size. Lean and mean is better than fat and sloppy.
Leverage the power of cloud (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 10X devices that leverage the power of the cloud to help our customers work, learn and play in new ways
Meaning "you'll be paying for Office Teams 365 Cloud Enhanced X until worms consume your corpse."
Re:Leverage the power of cloud (Score:5, Funny)
Worms are only available for those subscribed to the correct "Death Teams 365" plan.
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"Error 95663a54cd: Burial Service has not been installed or has been configured incorrectly."
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I tip my hat to you Sir.
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Re: Leverage the power of cloud (Score:2)
No they are actually built into Outlook. Because MS loves you very much.
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The Outlook version is "Death Panels 2000". Don't get them confused.
Re:Leverage the power of cloud (Score:5, Insightful)
Call me cynical but this seems to be the obvious reason for the jump to single screen laptops. W10X was developed with the tightest integration into pay for use technologies and was expected to penetrate the new market for dual screen devices. Seeing as millions of people are spending all day on their laptops instead of on their mobiles the next release is being retargeted at the new market. I wonder if it runs classic windows programs at all or only "apps" from the microsoft store?
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I presume by "mobile" you mean "cell phone". In either case, cell phone or laptop, you can't actually do anything I would ever want, particularly with Windows 10 (and presumably 10x). On the tiny monitor, even reading email is nearly hopeless on my company-supplied 15" laptop - there's so much wasted space that content does not show. Unless they fix that, Windows 10 is a non-starter.
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You can't function on a 15" laptop display?
FFS, if you are losing screen area to ads, stop using software supported by ads!
Can you really not find an email application that doesn't include advertising on the main screen?
Sounds like your company bought laptops with 1300x768 (low-res) displays and then saddled you with something like gmail for corporate email client. Go to a computer store and see what a real laptop display looks like.
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While I think it may be a tad hyperbolic, I think his complaint is the modern Windows design language where, particularly by default, every UI element needs to be big enough so that the largest thumb can still hit it if vaguely pressed in its direction.
They seem to have gotten better with some apps auto-detecting 'touch-likely' scenarios and/or offering a tooltip early on suggesting you may prefer to select 'tighter UI' for more efficient use of screen. It's been plaguing the PC platforms ever since that ti
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Yeah, it used to be that a 640x480 or 800x600 screen was enough to read email and write documents.
But with all the modern "save screen space" design it is not enough anymore.
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That was because we had to do with less back then. Far less features in software, far smaller screens, far slower PCs.
One of the first things that happened when PCs started getting faster was bigger screen resolution, until we discovered a functional soft cap for most people at slightly over 750 vertical pixels for laptops and slightly over 1000 for desktops. Which is where we remained ever since, with win10 even doing 25% scaling by default on 1080p laptop screens to get back to that 750-ish sweet spot "si
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Except that e-mail or editing documents didn't really change that much. MS Office ribbon interface supposedly saves some screen space compared to the regular toolbars, but newer email interfaces waste screen space.
Also, while MS Office or various email clients do have more features now, most people still use the basic set and could most likely use Word 97 just as well as the latest version for most of the documents.
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I've no idea what you're editing, but what I've seen in business, word documents, excels and powerpoints changed dramatically in last 20 years. Embedded multimedia went from something extremely novel and largely unusable to a norm.
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Something like contracts and such. Stuff that is usually printed (to paper or pdf) after it is complete.
However, that may excuse the high CPU/RAM requirements, it does not excuse the software for taking up a lot of screen space with larger icons than needed. I am not typing a long document on a touchscreen. And if I was typing a document on a touchscreen, it would be on a phone and not a Windows PC.
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Ah, that's probably it. One of the biggest changes was that many documents today never see a printer. So we get things like animations and such in powerpoints, superbly complex macros and images in words and excels.
And when you need to get something out to the printer in the end, you just export whatever you need to export as PDF, which strips those elements out.
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Well, now I feel like a superhero (despite the reading glasses), running 1080p without scaling on my 15" laptop.
If I had to use UWP apps for things, I'd be looking into reducing scaling, they waste so much space it's painful.
Maybe the real superpower is not running every program full-screen...
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To be fair, windows supported this for ages. Windows key + left or right arrow key is there for a reason.
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It's simultaneously wasting space with massive touch targets and saving space by being too small and compact?
Maybe the issue is that some manufacturers and corporate IT departments don't pick the right DPI scaling settings and people don't know how to adjust the size of UI elements themselves.
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Large touch targets are good. if the device is being used with a touch screen. I can manage to click on a 16x16 or 32x32 pixel toolbar icon with a mouse no problem. It does not need to be 128x128.
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That's what I mean about setting the UI scaling properly. If you need touch targets than reduce the DPI. If you don't then crank it up so stuff is smaller, and you can set things like font sizes separately if you need them for reading.
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I've got Outlook (latest version) open in front of me now and many of the controls are quite small. I'd be hesitant to try to touch them if this laptop had a touchscreen. It's definitely mouse operated software.
Same with Explorer, a lot of the controls are too small for reliable touch operation. Maybe that's why touch isn't all that popular in Windows.
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Outlook is one of the apps that seem to be somewhat adaptive. I had a laptop with no touchscreen and looked touch hostile.
Then I installed outlook on a touchscreen and noticed new big icons and a sparser layout. An internet search connected the fact that it detected a touch screen and went touch-friendly, and also the steps to make it touch-hostile again.
Re: Leverage the power of cloud (Score:1)
I'm sorry, but we are doing real work over here. A single screen is already barely usable, unless it's a 40" 4K one. Try using any large suite like a CAD, 3D design, video or music production suite on even a single HD screen. It's possible, yes, but having a second screen for the browser, documentation, render windows, video preview, VST plugins/mixer, etc, is so much better!
15"? What is this? The 90s??
320x240 is enough for everybody??
Oh, and if you were not talking about real work, why did you say "work"?
Re: Leverage the power of cloud (Score:4, Insightful)
Depends on the situation. At home or at work I have big screens. When I'm traveling or at a remote site I have a laptop. I much prefer to use the big screens but sometimes I have no choice. So I prefer a system that lets me do both, with what efficiency is possible with the given screen size.
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A 15" screen is often fine for that second monitor, though. I prefer two medium-sized screens (24" or so) to one large screen and a laptop screen, but I understand why people like it the other way for the same desk space.
I used to work with people who preferred to code on their laptop screen, and would often have it open on their desk working, sat in front of two decent monitors that weren't connected. I don't get that at all, but clearly some people can get work done that way.
Re: Leverage the power of cloud (Score:2)
I tried dual monitor setups before, and I was finding myself focused on only one screen, almost completely ignoring the second monitor. My eyes just dont like traveling the distance. Yes, it comes in handy when you are coding/debugging in one and have documentation open in another, but in most usage scenerios for me, the second monitor just goes unnoticed.
Everybody's different, and usage habits can vary wildly in the same individual depending on the task at hand. What works for me may not work for somebody
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A single screen is already barely usable, unless it's a 40" 4K one.
I'd appreciate a link to a laptop case that can contain your 40" display.
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Most laptops will hook up to a larger monitor even windows 10. You can buy big refurbished ones for less than the price of a fancy dinner. Add a full sized keyboard and mouse if you like. As for what you like using your laptop for who cares, lots of people get work done on all sorts of operating systems including windows 10.
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Lose yourself in the miasma of the cloud is more like it.
I have NEVER been impressed with cell/smart phones. I own the cheapest, reasonably recent Android smartphone I could find. It has just a few e-commerce and banking apps, used mostly over WIFI connections. I have an eReader for books (I'd have eyestrain and carpal tunnel syndrome if I tried to read on a phone.) For everything else, there's a desktop system that was pretty hot 10 years ago when I bought it. But there doesn't appear to be a way to deposi
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If "legacy" Win32 apps can't be run on this, I suspect Windows 10X will be a smashing success, just like Windows RT was before it.
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"Since Windows 10X is a modern OS, support for legacy Windows applications is done through a new containerized mode that essentially spins up stripped down version of full Windows 10 in the background every time the user wants to run a legacy application."
In short, it *can* but your app will be 'out of place' if it isn't UWP.
The strategy seems to be to make it viable for usual users by allowing running 'old' applications (unlike S, which basically screwed over users to make sure no one would want it). Meanw
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Windows10X is about containerisation.
!) All old Win32 apps run in one container.
2) All UVP apps get their own container
3) All PWA apps get their own container
All containers are separate from a read-only version of the operating system, for better security and faster updates. Better Battery life, I presume from being able to hibernate containers.
https://www.howtogeek.com/4427... [howtogeek.com]
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whoa (Score:1)
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Wow, that Surface Neo takes the idiotic MacBook Pro Touch(TM)Bar(TM) to new extremes.
Still waiting for the ARM-based "MacBook" that's just two iPads connected by a custom hinge.
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Nobody is impressed by you.
Idiots (Score:4, Insightful)
Why so much useless fragmentation? Just make the UI customizable to the individual and device.
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A bucket of that is conceivably worth more than I've earned, to the right people.
Re:Idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
Essentially, both S and X are attempts to move users into the next 'paradigm' that microsoft wants. S was about lockin to the Microsoft store, first by being all in on UWP and then realizing they needed to support the very apps that people actually get Windows to run, so Win32 apps got to join in. At the end of the day, S was a failure because it was just Windows 10 with less application support.
So Microsoft wants to give it another spin, this time hanging things on 'new shell experience' and leaning into the 'screen as a keyboard' design as the lynchpin for justifying 'different'. They of course realize those are almost certain to flop, hence the pivot toward '10X is a new experience for everyone'. It's an alternate strategy to steer everyone toward UWP and thus into the Microsoft store. This time you can retain your 'legacy' apps, but it won't run quite as nicely as UWP. Basically it's another attempt to push the industry to actually bother with UWP, because legacy applications by and large skip the Microsoft store, and at this point the Microsoft store is one of the whole points of even having Windows, as far as Microsoft is concerned.
I'm sure that members of the Windows team sincerely believe in their advances, but it's clear that the business is holding those features as something to try to entice users into the MS Store walled garden, so they can more reliably get a slice of the revenue of developers on their platform, like Google and Apple get on mobile.
Re: Idiots (Score:1)
"So Microsoft wants to give it another spin, this time hanging things on 'new shell experience' and leaning into the 'screen as a keyboard' design"
It's not going to be easy to see what's on the keyboard screen with the overlays people are going to be sticking on it to get some tactile feedback. Typing on a flat screen with only a buzzer for feedback just plain sucks.
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UI's are hard enough to get right when you can target a specific platform profile. Making them bend every which way will either require larger teams, or force compromises to make it acceptable to everyone.
These "responsive" office-oriented apps are crappy, even from deep pocket companies. Desktop/mouse is just too different from finger/mobile to make both camps happy at the same time. Maybe there are 7 designers o
"fragmentation" is a stupid word. (Score:2)
In the open source world we just call that customization. Not one size fits all.
Anything that can do everything, can do nothing really well.
Forking is open source "working as intended". So why should MS not offer more than one size of pants?
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Wrong. No, it's different thing. I don't need to install one version of Linux on my desktop, another one on my laptop, another one on my laptop if I plug it into two external screens, another (costing more money of course) on machine with more than X processors, another on servers...
It IS fragmentation in Microsoft's case. My linux distro on the other hand will drive everything from a laptop or thin client to a high performance computing cluster.
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Windows will also "drive everything from a laptop or thin client to a high performance computing cluster". The difference is that it is retail software and not open source like Linux. Microsoft has every right to try and capitalize on their product and look for different markets for its products.
If you want a Linux space comparison you could look at Red Hat. They seem to charge different prices for basically the same software depending on how you are using it ( https://www.redhat.com/en/stor... [redhat.com] ). This is v
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Liar. Wrong. Microsoft sells different versions that have different capabilities. You can't legally run your 32 bit windows version in PAE mode. You can't run the windows home edition on more than 1 socket. You can't run the pro version with 6TB of memory, you'd need the Pro Workstation version.
I get it that you are a Microsoft shill but stop spewing lies.
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and Redhat is of no relevance, no one has to run their garbage. There are dozens of distributions that will do exactly what I say about running on everything from laptop to a supercomputer. You can't do that with windows at any price.
Windows 10 in X mode (Score:3)
Native sandbox 10x worse than Windows 10. (Score:2)
With native software running in a sandbox people will be powerless to prevent Windows from stalking them and exfiltrating their data.
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Who asked for this? (Score:1)
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The original idea of Win10X is to support devices with dual displays with a hinge in the middle, think iPad with a hinge across the middle, so you could carry a 12.9" iPad in half the space.
They they felt the need to formally announce support single-screen devices is surprising
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Who asked for this? No, seriously, is there any one who has been waiting for this?
No one asked for anything. Certainly not a car, not a horse, not a touch screen, not a laptop. Shit man 3D graphics accelerators were considered DoA when they were released. Who asked for that! Shit man no one asked for the iPhone. Everyone mocked it out of the box.
I remember the last time someone asked "Who asked for this" of Microsoft. It was the now hugely successful Surface line. The answer remains "no one asked for it" but that's not the question. When you see it if you want to use it then use it. If n
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Hugely successful they aren't.
Microsoft's annual profit statement begs to differ with quarterly revenue in the billions and the Surface line consistently turning profit since 2014.
The multiple other companies producing clones of the form factor because they wanted in on the market begs to differ.
You haven't seen any in the wild? Congrats. The only Macbook I've seen in the wild in the past 3 years is the one provided by my girlfriend's school. It's currently lying closed on the table while she teaches her students from her Surface. I see
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Who asked for this?
The boss. Unfortunately, there isn't enough resistance to prevent it from happening.
Love this quote (Score:5, Insightful)
"With Windows 10X, we designed for flexibility, and that flexibility has enabled us to pivot our focus toward single-screen Windows 10X devices that leverage the power of the cloud to help our customers work, learn and play in new ways."
PIVOT towards single-screen, aka every laptop, tablet, and desktop sold to date? They had to PIVOT to support every device currently on the market?
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I suspect it was because they didn't think they had enough novelty to get people into 10X, and thus linking it to something that seems genuinely 'novel' would be a nice clear way to make the general market not look too critically at it as it gets into the market.
Then they presumably wised up and realized the rationale of why it would be a safer area to launch on is because no one will care, and the strategy of linking the two would backfire and that design style flopping would drag 10X down with it.
Or else
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Codenamed Santorini, Windows 10X is the upcoming version of Windows 10 specifically designed to power foldable PCs and dual-screen laptops dipshit
Give over (Score:3)
However, I will use this comment to say this. That Windows 10 is a horrific downgrade from 7 in terms of aesthetics, speed of directory navigation and speed of opening up programs. I have next to zero hope 10X will be any better.
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Or of course Open Shell: https://github.com/Open-Shell/... [github.com]
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Or one of the two dozen desktops available in Linux.
Remind me of the sig (Score:3)
>>...leverage the power of the cloud...
There was a fellow here on /. whose sig read something to the effect of "we leverage the power of the internet..." which was some company's slogan in the 90s.
I know what "the cloud" is all about, always on, always renting, never owning, walled garden locked down spyware.
I get it, you need more telemetry to tell you what you refuse to face, that Win10 blows goats, and that somehow, with just a little bit more telemetry, you'll finally be able to...well it sure won't be used to fix the festering bloated mess you call Win10, that's for certain. You'll probably use it to cram more ads into it tho.
Single Screen ? (Score:4, Interesting)
I had no idea what a "single/dual screen laptop" really is. Seems some laptops have 2 screens attached.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/... [theverge.com]
One 'normal screen' and a tiny second screenwhich is really a half size screen
Is this the first step to a default resolution change where the default will now be something line 1600x450 ? I want 4x3 back (or 16:9 at the very least)
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Maybe the virtual "metro" tiles are turning into physical tiles? What's next, Windows Rubix(tm)?
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That actually looks like a laptop design that solves the problem of having either the keyboard too close or the screen too far away. Nevertheless, using one for a whole day is guaranteed to give you neck/back/shoulder problems.
What am I getting wrong here? (Score:1)
"We're making a new fold-able OS that doesn't need to fold."
Can't they just use regular Windows if they are not using a folding device?
Just another false market (Score:1)
Big Jump in Windows Usage
Read: Lots-o'-Laptops being purchased so employees can work from home. When it's over the 30% that aren't broken will be dumped in a box on the parking level or donated to the Salvation Army. Just like the animal shelters being emptied out by emotional liars who need some cuddling. When the all clear is sent and the restaurants, bars, theaters, and bowling alleys beckon puppers will be dropped on the roadside out in the country or brought back to the filled up shelter so he can 'find a good home'. Puppers
Next up: Windows 10X0A (Score:2)
And then Windows 10X0A00001100
Followed by Windows 10X0A00001100Ten and Windows 10X0A00001100Ten.---- ----!
What is this again? (Score:1)
I hate the "use the existing known brand" name that probably has nothing to do with Windows 10. Just like Windows on ARM a few years back. Where nothing x86 would work...so calling it Windows was somewhat of a misnomer, unless you mean the GUI and interface.
(off to Google this...but editors please note this detail in the future)
Who Cares? (Score:2)
The whole damn thing, i.e. Windows, is frigging broken. Who builds a damn O/S that literally stops working because Microsoft thinks it needs to be "updated" after an indefinite amount of time, might be one day, might be two months?
Those people in Washington have eaten far too many magic mushrooms.
All I want it is an O/S that will run until I decide to shut it down, not the other way around.
Pivot (Score:2)
I'm waiting for Windows 10XP (Score:2)
the new CAL, you need a Microsoft screen CAL (Score:2)
so our users now all have dual screens and some want triple monitor setups. You know the enterprise agreement true up... how many screens do you run windows on, you need a CAL for that... In those poor third world countries they can only afford one screen, but here we are rich and can have 2 or more!
If anything changed (Score:2)
We are less mobile, i.e. back to the desktop.
I do my home office only on desktops with big monitors and good keyboards.
I hear from some friends, that they're getting shoulder issues etc. due to unergonomic home office.
They work on a laptop all day.
What's old is new again... (Score:3)
I remember using a illustration in lectures more than 20 years ago: A spiral that showed how computer usage has oscillated between distributed computing power and centralized computing power. From the days of "big iron", to the first PCs, to PC networks with centralized servers, back to more powerful PCs, then the "thin client craze", then laptops became so powerful that applications were installed locally again.
With the cloud: back we go again: Whether it's smartphones or laptops running Windows 10X/Office365: code may run locally, but installation and data storage is centralized.
History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Hi guys (Score:1)