Walmart Employees Are Out To Show Its Anti-Shoplifting AI Doesn't Work (arstechnica.com) 51
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: In January, my coworker received a peculiar email. The message, which she forwarded to me, was from a handful of corporate Walmart employees calling themselves the "Concerned Home Office Associates." (Walmart's headquarters in Bentonville, Arkansas, is often referred to as the Home Office.) While it's not unusual for journalists to receive anonymous tips, they don't usually come with their own slickly produced videos. The employees said they were "past their breaking point" with Everseen, a small artificial intelligence firm based in Cork, Ireland, whose technology Walmart began using in 2017. Walmart uses Everseen in thousands of stores to prevent shoplifting at registers and self-checkout kiosks. But the workers claimed it misidentified innocuous behavior as theft and often failed to stop actual instances of stealing.
They told WIRED they were dismayed that their employer -- one of the largest retailers in the world -- was relying on AI they believed was flawed. One worker said that the technology was sometimes even referred to internally as "NeverSeen" because of its frequent mistakes. WIRED granted the employees anonymity because they are not authorized to speak to the press. The workers said they had been upset about Walmart's use of Everseen for years and claimed colleagues had raised concerns about the technology to managers but were rebuked. They decided to speak to the press, they said, after a June 2019 Business Insider article reported Walmart's partnership with Everseen publicly for the first time. The story described how Everseen uses AI to analyze footage from surveillance cameras installed in the ceiling and can detect issues in real time, such as when a customer places an item in their bag without scanning it. When the system spots something, it automatically alerts store associates. A video from the Concerned Home Office Associates "purports to show Everseen's technology failing to flag items not being scanned in three different Walmart stores," adds the report. "Set to cheery elevator music, it begins with a person using self-checkout to buy two jumbo packages of Reese's White Peanut Butter Cups. Because the packages are stacked on top of each other, only one is scanned, but both are successfully placed in the bagging area without issue."
"The same person then grabs two gallons of milk by their handles and moves them across the scanner with one hand. Only one is rung up, but both are put in the bagging area. They then put their own cell phone on top of the machine, and an alert pops up saying they need to wait for assistance -- a false positive."
They told WIRED they were dismayed that their employer -- one of the largest retailers in the world -- was relying on AI they believed was flawed. One worker said that the technology was sometimes even referred to internally as "NeverSeen" because of its frequent mistakes. WIRED granted the employees anonymity because they are not authorized to speak to the press. The workers said they had been upset about Walmart's use of Everseen for years and claimed colleagues had raised concerns about the technology to managers but were rebuked. They decided to speak to the press, they said, after a June 2019 Business Insider article reported Walmart's partnership with Everseen publicly for the first time. The story described how Everseen uses AI to analyze footage from surveillance cameras installed in the ceiling and can detect issues in real time, such as when a customer places an item in their bag without scanning it. When the system spots something, it automatically alerts store associates. A video from the Concerned Home Office Associates "purports to show Everseen's technology failing to flag items not being scanned in three different Walmart stores," adds the report. "Set to cheery elevator music, it begins with a person using self-checkout to buy two jumbo packages of Reese's White Peanut Butter Cups. Because the packages are stacked on top of each other, only one is scanned, but both are successfully placed in the bagging area without issue."
"The same person then grabs two gallons of milk by their handles and moves them across the scanner with one hand. Only one is rung up, but both are put in the bagging area. They then put their own cell phone on top of the machine, and an alert pops up saying they need to wait for assistance -- a false positive."
Re: (Score:2)
You need to speak to experts in AI. This is a really hard problem they're trying to solve. It's probably not going to be solved this decade.
Re: (Score:2)
An expert in psychology or in business motives might also point out that the self-serve kiosks reduce staff and cost low-end jobs to Wal-Mart employees. They have a strong motive to reset or even actively discredit such systems.
Re: (Score:3)
An expert in psychology or in business motives might also point out that the self-serve kiosks reduce staff and cost low-end jobs to Wal-Mart employees. They have a strong motive to reset or even actively discredit such systems.
Sure, but that is an ad-hominem argument and really doesn't discredit them unless you can show they are wrong. I think this shows they are right though. Now all the thieves have what amounts to a set of instructions to bypass the AI. This is the problem with such AI. If something slightly weird happens several times with a human they will pass it the first times but then demand to have a look the second or third time. If everything is okay they will instantly learn to pass that situation without much furth
Re: (Score:2)
The only real question here is "is this more effective than having anti-theft people on staff monitoring said kiosks?" Everything else is fluff.
Large corporations tend to gloss over many things, but profit margins is not one of them.
P.S. I find those store associates staring at you when you go to self-serve kiosk massively off-putting. To the point where I'd rather go to a normal one and have a cashier get my items rung. But that's just me.
Re: (Score:2)
It's hard to believe it's more effective than having vegas-casine style cameras on the checkouts.
Nothing keeps people honest more than the feeling of being watched.
Re: (Score:3)
And nothing repels honest people more than feeling of being watched as if they're thieves. You know, the entirety of BLM's premise that they should not be treated by authorities as if they're all criminals just because they have more criminals amongst them than other ethnic groups in US.
Guess who form the majority of Walmart's clientele? That's right, honest people who are repelled by the people watching them for signs of them being thieves.
Cameras remove this factor. The psychological effect of being watch
Re: (Score:3)
And nothing repels honest people more than feeling of being watched as if they're thieves.
Are these the same people that use Facebook, gmail, etc.? They need a reality check.
Re: (Score:2)
Considering my past interactions with you, I suspect the following advice is a lost cause. But I have to try.
READ MORE THAN THE FIRST SENTENCE BEFORE REPLYING.
You may look less like a complete idiot if you do.
Re: (Score:2)
You are missing the more important question for the people behind this discussion. "is there a way for me to make this less effective than having anti-theft people on staff monitoring said kiosks?"
The answer to that is in the article: identify ways of bypassing the system and then publicise them. If all the thieves are educated to start using regularly triggering false positives when they have nothing stolen so they can complain about the system and then always using the methods that get them a false negat
Re: (Score:2)
This is and largely remains irrelevant to the far more important point of "how do we get honest people to enjoy using self-service kiosks". I address it in another reply here:
https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
Whoever leaked the info stands to lose a lot for reasons you mentioned. But camera positions will be adjusted, and other specific mitigations will be rapidly put in to mitigate against those specific exploits. A rogue employee sabotaging his/her company is nothing new, and mitigation against this is bui
Re: (Score:2)
The employees who work at Wal-Mart may not share this set of priorities. Other questions include "will this reduce staff at Wal-Mart", or "will this expose and expose employee theft we rely on as 'perks'"
Shop lifting at many self-serve kiosks is extremely common.
Re: (Score:2)
self-serve kiosks reduce staff and cost low-end jobs to Wal-Mart employees.
Wife works at WM, so I do have SOME insight, albeit limited in scope. Long story short, they can't hire enough cashiers. Nobody wants the job, even though it pays the same as most other starting positions there. (And in my area, well above the federal/state minimum wage) The general reason: People (customers) are assholes, and it's not exactly easy work. What I'm driving at, is that the self-checkouts are there, at least partly, due to the fact that they need them to maintain throughput.
Re: (Score:2)
well a crazy idea would be to pay more in order to make the job more attractive.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Would your wife be willing to work cashier, or would other staff be willing, if it paid more? It does look exhausting phsycially and emotionally, much like being a busboy in a busy restaurant. And human service jobs are being less valued in modern society, despite their historic role in employment for the young.
On review, when I meet an intern or a work candidate who has never done service work at all, I want to know why and ensure that they've dealt with "real customers". It helps ensure that they will tre
Re: (Score:3)
And yet at Fred Meyer, owned by Kroger, they just have a scale built into the bagging area, and if you scan one package of peanut butter cups and place 2 into the bag, it will sit there saying "replace item and scan again" until you either replace the item and scan again, or until the employee supervising the area presses a button.
It works really well, and when it rarely makes a mistake, they just press the button; usually before the customer even has to look around for help!
Their system is really good; the
Re: (Score:2)
Walmart has a similar scale system. That works fine.
But Walmart also has cameras mounted above, facing downward. The cameras watch you scanning your items. If you swipe something across the scanner and it doesn't scan, but you put it in the bagging area, it will trigger and show the video on your screen. It will also trigger if the item you scanned doesn't look like the item matching the barcode, presumably to catch thieves using stickers with barcodes of cheaper items.
It has triggered a few times on me
Re: (Score:2)
Respect? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: So what? (Score:1)
I think the reasoning flaws are self evident.
âoeWal-Mart Employeesâ
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't the bagging area have scales to determine what was scanned is about the same weight that was put in the bag?
Ok an extra Kit-Kat bar may not be enough to trigger the warning, but an extra gallon of milk?
AI does not exist... (Score:4, Insightful)
Everyone has more Intelligence in their pinky than the entire planets AI compute power combined!
Re: (Score:1)
Everyone has more Intelligence in their pinky than the entire planets AI compute power combined!
Yes, and artificial plants don't exist because every natural lawn has more plant matter in a single blade of grass than the entire planet's astroturf combined.
Artificial grass = not really grass but might look a bit like it as long as you don't look too closely.
Artificial cream = not really cream but might seem a bit like it if you don't check too closely.
Artificial Intelligence = not really intelligence but might look a bit like it if you don't check too closely.
It isn't complicated.
Anti-Dupe AI (Score:5, Informative)
Slashdot Editors out to show Anti-Dupe AI doesn't work.
https://slashdot.org/story/20/... [slashdot.org]
Are we sure it isn't working? (Score:2, Insightful)
More seriously though you know that someone in middle management dumped a lot of money on this and if they deep six it they'll get asked why they spent so much money on it. So instead it continues to get used even though it sucks in order to give the appearance of a successful project. They'll probably even promote the idiot.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Are we sure it isn't working? I haven't seen any pictures of Walmarts getting looted. Plenty of Targets, Walgreens, etc. No Walmarts though.
It's 'cause nobody wants to fuck with Walmart's battle droids. The Trade Federation protects their own.
But Walmart doesn't have battle droids I hear you say. I've never met anyone who has seen a Walmart battle droid you say. You ever wonder why? It's 'cause they don't ever leave survivors, that's why. Prove me wrong!
are there no basic weight checks? (Score:2)
In self checkout systems I have used in Poland there are weight sensors in "bagging area". Its sometimes finicky for light items (annoying false positives) and likely offer tolerances that would allow you to add something very light with your heavy item, but I doubt you could put "double" items there without alert.
Re: (Score:2)
Sime items are quite low-weight but high value, such as computer games.
Re: (Score:2)
The ones in every store I've used them in here in the UK are the same. It makes packing more than one bag a nightmare, and even just shifting the straps around a little can tilt the balance and set it off.
It doesn't even work for the intended purpose, because the constant false positives have trained staff to ignore it. When the weight detector reports a mismatch, the checkout won't proceed until a staff member comes along and enters the secret code (Asda) or applies their little security fob (Co-op). I ass
Um Ya... We know that. (Score:1)
Against a Brick (Score:1)
Donâ(TM)t blame the AI (Score:2)
Not only is it not perfect but it shouldnâ(TM)t aim to be. Until we have full AGI the roll of AI in shoplifting detection should be drawing employee attention to *possible* instances of shoplifting at which point they can watch any video saved use their judgement to decide whether and how to escalate.
The problem here is Walmartâ(TM)s overly mechanical procedures that force employees to take action when they shouldnâ(TM)t. No doubt a consequence of the fact that the employee employee relatio
Give up (Score:2)
Rest assured, this is pushed by lawyers looking for something to sue over. Walmart is doing the right thing, using it to flag incidents for human review.
The story is frontloaded with how it misses actual shoplifting. This is by design to get you emotionally invested as a sketchy technology.
But... read further. Oh dear! Sometimes that means breaking social distancing and spreading infection and give me money!
Follow the money. It never lies.
Re: (Score:2)
I replied to the first time the story was posted, but will repeat: the Walmart system made me inadvertently shoplift. An error beep came up on scanning one item, clerk reviews the video, re-scans it, but a second item was the one that had actually been missed. You couldn’t tell what was in the “cart” list, and we had no reason to think that the other item had not scanned.
The system is actually pretty bad, and needs to be fixed or scrapped. They should also re-design their self checkout are
Re: (Score:2)
Just because it doesn't work all the time... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
But it is 10x as many people being treated like thieves. That is the problem.
Fuck Walmart (Score:3)
The scale can't differentiate an 8.6lb difference? (Score:2)
It doesn't make sense. They scan one gallon of milk but put two in the bagging area. The difference in weight is expected to be 8.6 pounds, but the scale doesn't detect it is double that? Yet it is sensitive enough to detect the weight of a cell phone?
Sounds wrong to me. It clearly can detect and notify when actual weight is a few ounces more than expected
I'm an Inadvertant Shoplifter (Score:2)
I'm the father of two small boys. On three occasions I have found extra groceries in my shopping cart after making it to my van - things my sons threw in the cart which somehow got covered by their coats. None of those times did a Walmart employee catch the extra items. Upon seeing the items while loading the van I returned the items to the store - where employees asked me if I wanted a refund. From those experiences, it wouldn't surprise me they don't catch real shoplifters.
New AI research group (Score:1)
Follow the money (Score:2)
Notice this was from people who are Wal Mart employees. Follow the money and you will see some things. I don't remember where I read it (so no source link), but I read in a reputable source that the major reason why this system was put into place was not customer theft, it was the much bigger Employee theft issue that plagues Wal Mart. This is the reason why they have people who check receipts at the door making sure you paid for everything now. Employees would come up with $100 worth of stuff and they