GM Plans Electric Van for Business Users in Bid To Pre-empt Tesla (reuters.com) 53
General Motors is developing an electric van aimed at business users, joining a growing list of carmakers planning EVs for the same segment which includes customers such as Amazon.com and United Parcel Service, Reuters reported Thursday. From the report: That multibillion-dollar strategy could enable GM, Ford Motor and at least two EV startups to build and deliver more electric vehicles at a time when consumer demand for battery-powered models is still a small fraction of overall industry sales, while targeting a potentially lucrative market segment that Tesla Inc has yet to address. GM's plan to develop an electric van has not previously been reported. The No. 1 U.S. automaker did not confirm the van, but has said it plans to introduce at least 20 new all-electric vehicles by 2023, in a variety of body styles including sedans, trucks and crossovers. Suppliers familiar with such plans at GM and Ford told Reuters the Detroit automakers, which count trucks and commercial vehicles among their most profitable businesses, "don't want to leave the door open for Tesla" as they did in consumer passenger cars.
"Plans" (Score:5, Insightful)
So is GM REALLY developing an electric van? Or are they just trying to scare away fleet buyers from going with Tesla for a little while longer?
GM has a bit of a checkered history [wikipedia.org] with electric cars, so not sure I trust anything they say they are "planning", much less it would be delivered at scale.
Re:"Plans" (Score:5, Funny)
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Are Nissan's electric vans but available in the US?
The next generation is due soon, it will be based on a Renault. No idea if it will come to the US.
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If GM doesn't, someone will. Stockholders in every car company that's not Tesla are looking at Tesla's market cap and asking CEOs "why aren't you doing that". GM would have a huge advantage if they could actually deliver, as they have a huge existing commercial customer base. Not sure why Nissan isn't in the US with their offering (or are they and I missed it?)
Personally, I'd love to see a light pickup truck from Tesla, because no one else is in that market any more (due to bizarre fuel economy rules tha
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No one wants a small, fuel efficient, or electric pickup. Pickup drivers want big, and the front end should be designed to look like a freight train so that when they return to their truck, laboriously backed into a parking space, they will see the giant grille and think to themselves "boy, the man who drives that thing must be very important and have a very big dick!", and then "oh wait, that's me! I must have a big dick!".
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No one wants a small, fuel efficient, or electric pickup. Pickup drivers want big, and the front end should be designed to look like a freight train
That's what's being marketed today. And, sure, if you have an unlimited budget, you can get quite the luxury locomotive. But the old light trucks were cheap. They were the econobox of boxes. Great to get your kid when he gets his license, or if you're trying to start a business and every penny matters.
I mean, people want Maybach Mercedes and Ferraris, but they buy Honda Civics and the like.
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My 06 Ford Ranger was $15k brand new off the lot, and zero percent interest. It's been paid for for almost a decade now.
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You can park that 06 ranger in the bed of a new F150.
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Indeed, that's the advantage of the Ranger, unless you're the 1% of truck owners who actually haul something larger than a toolbox.
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Lol, the GP was more spot on than you can possibly imagine.
I live in the suburbs, and the amount of giant trucks that get 15 miles put on them each week plus a car wash going to the ball field and back is astounding. You don't need a fucking giant 4x4 pickup that doesn't fit in your garage when you work an office job and live on a 1/4 acre, manicured lot.
It's fucking hilarious to watch them get shit delivered that would fit in their truck too. If you're not going to bring home a fridge or a load of mulch in
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Around here (central Texas), you can tell the people who do real work in their trucks, because they drive the small trucks. Lots of construction contractors in trucks just big enough to haul what they need to the job site. The huge trucks are in the driveways of the middle-class houses they're building. I keep finding humor in that.
Re: "Plans" (Score:1)
Or are they just trying to scare away fleet buyers from going with Tesla for a little while longer?
I'm pretty sure Tesla doesn't currently offer delivery vans but perhaps you know more than the rest of us. :/
Obviously GM execs are doing nothing other than trying to bump-up their [doomed] fucking stock price.
Re: "Plans" (Score:1)
Vans are logical next steps (Score:3)
In fact I'd say that vans make more sense than pickup trucks. Vans are less commonly called upon to do really hard work like towing things to neighboring states. Many of them are used only locally. Many of them are also used on long trips of course, but they generally aren't expected to haul as much, and they certainly don't tow as much.
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If a fledgling (or struggling, as the case may be) auto maker is looking to grow their profit and revenue, a pickup truck makes more sense. They are fairly high margin vehicles and one model is or at least was the best selling vehicle in the biggest market.
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If you consider that a van is just a pickup truck with a box instead of a bucket....
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That one model should be offered as an EV. I'm honestly surprised they haven't done it already. Ford is arguably the second-highest tech automaker in America (after Tesla) and is in a position to sell F150 EVs worldwide.
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In fact I'd say that vans make more sense than pickup trucks. Vans are less commonly called upon to do really hard work like towing things to neighboring states. Many of them are used only locally. Many of them are also used on long trips of course, but they generally aren't expected to haul as much, and they certainly don't tow as much.
The delivery van model seems like it would be easy to accommodate. It was tried a decade ago [autoblog.com] but the technology just wasn't mature enough. However, I think the technology is ready now.
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What I don't understand is how they possibly think they can preempt Tesla.
Tesla's skateboard is developed. Their battery manufacturing is ramping up daily. Their software is in the refinement stage.
All Tesla has to do is make a slightly longer, boxier Model X and they win. FFS, it already seats 7.
What does GM possibly think that they can do better or faster than that? Tesla could give them a couple years head start and still just cut them off at the knees.
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"What does GM possibly think that they can do better or faster than that? "
Manufacture at volume.
Forget Tesla (Score:2)
I probably should have put this in my other comment but I didn't think about it until now. Mercedes is allegedly planning an electric sprinter van. If they come through, they're the ones to beat to market with an electric van.
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> Mercedes is allegedly planning an electric sprinter van. If they come through, they're the ones to beat to market with an electric van
They're already losing that race;
https://techcrunch.com/2020/05... [techcrunch.com]
=Smidge=
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...If they come through, they're the ones to beat to market with an electric van
They're already losing that race;
https://techcrunch.com/2020/05... [techcrunch.com]
Not yet in production, so, no, the race isn't over.
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Tesla won't make much progress there either, and they have not exactly put a fire under their delivery van product line
That's because delivery vans are about as sexy as a limp hotdog.
No sexiness => no massive markups.
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I didn't say it was over, just that they're already losing.
Rivian has effectively sold 100K and is slated to deliver units starting within a year. Mercedes only just started taking orders last week and hasn't started production either.
The only saving grace is that Mercedes has access to the European market, whereas Rivian currently does not... but if Mercedes botches the rollout Rivian and Tesla are gonna drink their fucking milkshake.
=Smidge=
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I agree with everything you said, but remember that Mercedes and Sprinter are already trusted names. Aside from the tragic early Bluetec Sprinters, they are mostly very good. They are about as unreliable as anyone else's piles of crap, but they get better mileage and the actual design is better. I don't care for the feel of the new models, though, and I'm not sure who they're for. They feel more plastic-y than ever.
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We have a 2006 T1N super high, standard base cargo with a work floor and cruise control (and formerly, a solid partition.) It has had some disappointing but inexpensive failures, but overall it's been quite good. I am looking forward to getting it to someplace I can work on it again so I can do the Doktor A RSN fix. I've fixed boost hoses, resonator (deleted) and CKP. I'm about to do the front wheel bearings with Timken. It's got well over 200k. As you say, the big problem is corrosion. I've had to kill rus
Good luck with that (Score:4, Funny)
The Tesla-Killer cemetery is full already.
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Thing is, Tesla has focused on passenger cars up until very recently. For US car companies, passenger cars have basically been a loss-making business for quite a while now. US carmakers get their profit from SUV-sized-and-larger vehicles. If the government let them, they'd abandon the small-car market entirely.
If tesla ever gets serious about larger electric vehicles, the US companies will get a lot more serious about it. That's their bread and butter. Sorry, the cur
Why does 500k orders not count again? (Score:2)
Sorry, the current Tesla truck doesn't count.
While you were busy mocking the design, Tesla was busy gathering half a million pre-orders [slashdot.org] (and that was back in February).
Do you not think that is a serious number of vehicles?
Those are orders where you had to put down actual money, not just put your name on a list.
I'd agree that the Tesla Truck and a van are not really in the same space though, which is maybe why GM is targeting that as Tesla has not even announced a van yet. Maybe GM can get ahead of that...
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I stand by my comments about the aesthetics. For the most part, Teslas look like just-plain-nice cars that happen to be out-of-this-world electrics. They aren't concept cars, and they don'
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I don't want a "family" car, nor a pitckup truck that looks like something out of a bad 50's Duck Dodgers comic book....
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They have a new roadster. It's a bit pricey though. The pre-order deposit is the price of a normal sports car.
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I gotta admit, that's my gripe as well.
Hey, I don't need an electric supercar and I can't afford one anyway. What I'd like is a small two-seater roadster. It doesn't have to go 0-60 in under 2 seconds--I'm fine with 6 seconds. Price it around below $50K and I'd be first in line.
About the only thing I can find is the Tofino by ElectraMeccanica [electrameccanica.com].
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Not a roadster, but I want this to get made so bad...
https://carbuzz.com/news/honda... [carbuzz.com]
They're going to do the Honda e, so maybe the e sport will actually get made? Actually, not that I look at it, a convertible version would fit the body lines nicely.
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I'd also want one that can charge at modern speed, so at minimum I'd be looking for a CCS-compatible charger. But I'm an existing Tesla owner and I share your thoughts on the new roadster - to be honest, looks like an excuse for Musk to have someone build him his own car. All good, looks fun...but impact on the market and people's behaviour would be at the Boxster and
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While you were busy mocking the design, Tesla was busy gathering half a million pre-orders [slashdot.org] (and that was back in February).
Do you not think that is a serious number of vehicles?
It's the same as half a years sales of Ford F-150s in the US.
Serious is relative in this case.
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And if you were told three years ago that Tesla would have 1/2 a years worth of Ford's F-150s in preorders - for a pickup - you'd have had them committed. Seems like a hell of an accomplishment for a new car company to me. Kudos to them!
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Profit per car/truck/suv sold isn't as much as you think. That does not even factor incentives that some automotive companies rely heavily on.
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"The Tesla-Killer cemetery is full already."
Thanks to "Autopilot", so is the Tesla-Owner cemetery. What's your point?
Unlike Tesla sedans which are basically luxury sports vehicles which should, if you ask me, not have been subsidized by governments, there's a reasonable business use case for electric delivery and utility vehicles. There seem to be many actually available mostly in Europe. Looks like there will be even more. Virtually every major auto maker has announced a product. They aren't cheap BTW
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Features? (Score:2)
Will these be available with velour captain's chairs, shag carpet, simulated wood paneling interior, circular plexiglass windows, custom graphics paint job and multiple Jensen triaxial speakers?
If not, I'm not buying.
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Will these be available with velour captain's chairs, shag carpet, simulated wood paneling interior, circular plexiglass windows, custom graphics paint job and multiple Jensen triaxial speakers?
If not, I'm not buying.
You left out the waterbed in the back, and the number of cupholders it has.
Man the 70's were so long ago
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Some business users are building their own vans (Score:1)
The German Post / DHL started making their own some years ago. They seem to work well, I live in front of a post office and see them coming and going every day:
"Deutsche Post DHL makes its own electric delivery vans" (2016)
https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche... [dw.com]
Over the years, they've increased capacity and added more models:
"DHL's StreetScooter opens second factory as it emerges as an important EV manufacturer" (2018)
https://electrek.co/2018/05/31... [electrek.co]
In the US they apparently use vans made by a Ohio-based company
What else is new? (Score:2)
GM blew it already (Score:1)
AFAIC GM can crash and burn after the B$ they pulled with the EV1