Tesla Cuts Price of Model S Long Range Plus, Says EPA-Rated Range Improved To 402 Miles (cnbc.com) 85
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: Tesla confirmed Monday night that it recently cut the price of the 2020 Model S Long Range Plus by $5,000 and boasted that the EPA-rated range for this version of the Model S -- meaning the number of miles the vehicle can travel per single charge in testing conditions -- has increased to 402 miles. A spokesperson for the Environmental Protection Agency told CNBC in an e-mail on Tuesday: "EPA can confirm that we approved a 402 mile range for the updated Tesla Model S Long Range Plus. Tesla has updated the 2020 Model S Long Range Plus vehicle making several changes to the vehicle from the one EPA previously tested. EPA approved the new label value based on a review of the testing protocols and data submitted by Tesla and found it was complete and accurate. Fueleconomy.gov will be updated in about a week with this information."
In other words, the EPA approved Tesla's right to advertise a 402-mile range rating for the latest version of the Model S Long Range Plus, but the agency has not conducted its own tests of the vehicle. In Tesla's blog post on Monday, the company focused on the ways in which it has improved the range of the Model S Long Range Plus as compared to earlier versions of the company's flagship electric sedan. Among other things, Tesla said it achieved range improvements by reducing the mass of the vehicle by using lighter weight materials in its battery pack and drive units, and other lighter weight components. It also updated its "HOLD" features which allow drivers to remain stopped on a hill without having to keep the brake pedal pressed down. These features maximize regenerative braking in the Model S and other Tesla vehicles that have it. Last month, the EPA rebuffed comments Elon Musk made concerning what he calls an error during the Model S Long Range's testing process, which the executive says cost the car a 400-mile range estimate. The agency said it conducted the testing properly.
"The real Model S range is 400 miles, but when we did the last EPA test, unfortunately, a TA left the car door open and the keys in the car," said Elon Musk at the time. "So the car -- and they did this overnight. And so, the car actually went into a waiting for driver mode and lost 2% of its range. And as a result, it had a 391 test. As soon as the EPA reopens for testing, we will redo the test, and we're actually confident that we will achieve a 400-mile or greater range with the Model S. But to be clear, the Model S, for the past two months -- the true range of the Model S for the past two months has been 400 miles."
In other words, the EPA approved Tesla's right to advertise a 402-mile range rating for the latest version of the Model S Long Range Plus, but the agency has not conducted its own tests of the vehicle. In Tesla's blog post on Monday, the company focused on the ways in which it has improved the range of the Model S Long Range Plus as compared to earlier versions of the company's flagship electric sedan. Among other things, Tesla said it achieved range improvements by reducing the mass of the vehicle by using lighter weight materials in its battery pack and drive units, and other lighter weight components. It also updated its "HOLD" features which allow drivers to remain stopped on a hill without having to keep the brake pedal pressed down. These features maximize regenerative braking in the Model S and other Tesla vehicles that have it. Last month, the EPA rebuffed comments Elon Musk made concerning what he calls an error during the Model S Long Range's testing process, which the executive says cost the car a 400-mile range estimate. The agency said it conducted the testing properly.
"The real Model S range is 400 miles, but when we did the last EPA test, unfortunately, a TA left the car door open and the keys in the car," said Elon Musk at the time. "So the car -- and they did this overnight. And so, the car actually went into a waiting for driver mode and lost 2% of its range. And as a result, it had a 391 test. As soon as the EPA reopens for testing, we will redo the test, and we're actually confident that we will achieve a 400-mile or greater range with the Model S. But to be clear, the Model S, for the past two months -- the true range of the Model S for the past two months has been 400 miles."
Hold difference? (Score:2)
What does the hold do differently now? Does it work differently in the S than the 3? Or didn’t the S have it?
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The S has had hold since late 2014 with the introduction of Autopilot. They added torque-sleep to it sometime in 2015 or 2016 to save power. Frankly I don't see how they could have improved it any further power-wise since that time.
Re:Hold difference? (Score:5, Informative)
Welcome to the world of a Slashdot summary of a Lora Kolodny (one of the most anti-Tesla journalists out there) article ;) They could have just linked Tesla's blog post [tesla.com] where they link the ways efficiency was improved. Summary:
* Significant Mass Reduction - numerous elements
* New “Tempest” Aero Wheels and Tires - combined, they increase range by 2%
* Increased Drive Unit Efficiency - now use an electric oil pump rather than mechanical so that they can adjust lubrication independently instead of having it tied to vehicle speed. Front gearbox improvements as well. Combined, 2% range.
* Maximizing Regenerative Braking - Introduced HOLD from Model 3/Y. I'm not sure what green1 thinks it has to do with Autopilot or torque sleep; it's not even remotely related to them. HOLD lets the car regen down to near zero speed and uses physical brakes when regen can't continue to slow the car, allowing for both one-pedal driving and more total regen when braking.
Re, the EPA denying that they left the door open, Lora of course omits Musk's response. [twitter.com]:
"Weird that EPA would deny this. We have precise car logs that confirm it happened. Happy to provide them. Anyway, we’re just talking about 2% here, so not much. Confident Model S will get 400+ miles as soon as retest is allowed."
She also somehow made it sound like a conspiracy that automakers submit their own testing data, when this is standard practice in the industry. Everyone does this. But only Tesla gets a Lora Kolodny hit piece out of it, of course.
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When are we going to get a ground-uprefresh of the S and X anyway? Lots of improvement from battery tech to chassis/welding technique in the 3 and Y that have yet to be seen in the upscale versions. Old-school car companies do significant changes on 5-year cycles, and while Tesla's continuous improvement is neat, there's no sign yet of what will essentially be new cars with the same name and size as the S and X.
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When are we going to get a ground-uprefresh of the S and X anyway? Lots of improvement from battery tech to chassis/welding technique in the 3 and Y that have yet to be seen in the upscale versions.
Telsa is still working on getting the Cybertruck done, and getting the Semi done, and could have more projects in the pipeline (I saw a YouTube video speculating they could be making a delivery truck for FedEx/UPS/Amazon/etc.). It makes sense for them to do a refresh but they have a lot of projects going at once
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Heh, no one competes with BMW any more, they barely exist, at least in the US. A Model 3 is a fast econobox while the modern 3-series is a luxo-cruiser. They're both seriously heavy, though.
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The next significant S/X change is Plaid, due out later this year, which is trimotor and a new battery, and will cost more than the performance version. Unofficial, but I suspect that the battery upgrade will be applied to all versions, since there's no point to running multiple battery lines. Plaid would have the lowest range of them, as the more you optimize for the track, the more you hurt your energy consumption.
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I'd love to see refinements to take the Model X off Consumer Reports' shitlist and perhaps even into their "best" list. I suspect, however, that Tesla will stay focused on the Next Big Thing for years to come with the established models as an afterthought, just as a cost-control measure.
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The confusion is that Tesla ALSO uses "hold" to describe the function that allows you to release the brake pedal and yet the brakes remain applied so the car won't roll even on an incline (other manufacturers often call this "hill hold"). This required Autopilot as the pre-autopilot cars did not have the ability to keep the brakes applied without your foot on the pedal.
Torque sleep was a feature originally developed for the dual-motor cars which allowed an unused motor to be fully powered down and not draw
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I have it on my Model 3. It's available with all versions.
BTW, torque sleep is now obsolete, at least in its original form. It made sense with the dual induction motor system since they were geared differently. But now all Teslas are induction + PMSRM (3/Y have induction in the front, S/X have it in the rear). The induction motor is always slept and only used for extra power or traction control. The PMSRM provides drive power otherwise (as it's always more efficient). The induction motor pairs nicely w
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I was unaware that Tesla had started using permanent magnet motors (They used to make such a big deal about how inferior such things were to the induction motors they used and mocked other manufacturers for using them). That said, if new cars have permanent magnet motors, that would make a lot more sense as to why older induction motor cars wouldn't have the new feature as it likely requires the superior regenerative abilities of a permanent magnet motor to function. Too bad though, because I wouldn't mind
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Model 3 has used them since introduction. Model S/X gained them with the "Raven" update in late spring / early summer of last year.
You're probably referring to this blog entry [tesla.com] from 2007. The main evolution has been that Tesla has A) done a lot of work on a specific and comparatively new sub
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Perhaps. I do find this curious, though...
" Re, the EPA denying that they left the door open, Lora of course omits Musk's response. [twitter.com]:
"Weird that EPA would deny this. We have precise car logs that confirm it happened. Happy to provide them. Anyway, we’re just talking about 2% here, so not much. Confident Model S will get 400+ miles as soon as retest is allowed.""
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An AC post citing an other AC post. Now that is some serious fact checking!
There is an MPGe rating on electric cars that more accurately does the math.
Modern electric cars normally get over 100 MPGe
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Considering that Musk is sociopathic and pathologically dishonest, why wouldn't a reporter omit "Musk's response"? On twitter no less! We need more of that, not less.
Also, hit piece? I suppose it would appear to be so to a cheerleader, but Musk has been whining about the range result for a while so this reporting appears right on the nose. Maybe of Musk didn't bitch and moan constantly in public he'd get the same treatment as everyone else.
so how much does it cost? (Score:2)
So if it's $5000 lower, what is the expected price of the actual car? I'm not looking to buy, but it would be good to know if this is some luxury product or something which ordinary plebes can one day afford. (But the range data sounds exciting!)
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Revised 2020 model S base MSRP is in TFA: $74,990
Note that model S is the high end sedan. Google says the model 3 (budget sedan) MSRP is $37,990 for 2020, $35,000 for 2019
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Google says the model 3 (budget sedan) MSRP is $37,990 for 2020, $35,000 for 2019
When I think “budget car”, I’m picturing a Kia Rio, Nissan Versa, Mitsubishi Mirage or a Hyundai Accent...
I guess “average median income” means something totally different on /.
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The price is more akin to a budget BMW or Mercedes Benz. Tesla adds a good number of luxury features that ICE cars add with high profit margins to help absorb the cost of the batteries.
Tesla uses the electronics industry model. (Score:2)
Maybe. But the pricing is more a reflection of Tesla's conscious use of the high-tech evolution model, with it's Moore's Law style price/performance exponential scaling.
The computer industry, for instance, evolved from b
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So if it's $5000 lower, what is the expected price of the actual car? I'm not looking to buy, but it would be good to know if this is some luxury product or something which ordinary plebes can one day afford. (But the range data sounds exciting!)
If you have to ask the price, it’s too expensive.
Or if casually interested you could use google.
Or just type www.tesla.com
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Good news is you probably don't need this car. Very very few people do, basically only people who do extremely long trips regularly and who have iron bladders.
Even the Model 3 barely makes sense for most people. There are cars costing 3/4 the price with better range, or 1/2 the price with decent range, and unless you do a lot of long trips it's not worth spending double just to save an hour or two a year.
By all means buy it if you like that car, but from an economic point of view we have more than enough ra
Musk has the telemetry (Score:4, Informative)
Let's not forget: Musk has the telemetry (i.e. spyware). He knows what happens to every car. The New York Times tried this. They were given a Tesla car to test drive and lied about it. They got caught red-handed by the telemetry. "When the facts didn't suit his opinion, he simply changed the facts," Musk wrote.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive [teslamotors.com]
A Times spokeswoman reiterated that its story was "fair and accurate."
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Let's not forget: Musk has the telemetry (i.e. spyware). He knows what happens to every car.
That in itself is frightening.
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Do you carry a cellphone? Then your provider and most likely Google as well already know where you go and what speed you are traveling. How long you linger at certain places etc.
Where is your big fuss over that? Just Orange Man Bad with a different shade of Orange. Fake outrage.
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I read an article by the reporter, giving his side of the story, and there's enough uncertainty there that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
It was winter, and electric car batteries can lose a lot of range in winter temperatures. He wasn't just driving from point to point using Superchargers, he was making a side trip, and Tesla thought it would be okay for him to do it. He woke up and the car was really low. He wasn't near a Tesla Supercharger so he went to a slow charger and charged the
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"In a credibility contest between Tesla and the New York Times, the winner is obvious."
LOL, now way in the world anyone can take you seriously after that. Musk is a pathological liar; Cheney lied us into the Iraq war. Also, you would suggest their political reporting instructs their car testing? Are you a moron?
"Nah, we're going to keep trumpeting these media lies to the world. They must have no peace."
You've gone full nut job.
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Imagine a world in which people openly defend the New York Times. Wow...just, wow.
New York Times quotes a fake twitter account, publishes fake news. [newsbusters.org]
The New York Times Misquoted Trump's Charlottesville Remarks In Five Different Reports [dailycaller.com]
Remember when Glenn Thrush of Politico was exposed seeking Podesta's approval of articles about Clinton? Even Thrush wrote "please don't tell anyone" and "I'm such a hack". The consequences for Thrush? He was hired by the New York Times after the election. https://wikil [wikileaks.org]
Re:Musk has the telemetry (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's not forget: Musk has the telemetry (i.e. spyware). He knows what happens to every car.
This is the problem. You have to trust Musk that he's telling the truth. As we all know, there are been moments when Musk has stretched the truth and said things that aren't true. If he has the telemetry, it would be easy to publicize that data, but Tesla hasn't released the claimed data, even when the EPA directly contradicted Musk's claim. Musk might have the data, but he could also be bluffing. If you already trust Musk, you don't require the data, and you didn't believe him to start with, his statement means nothing.
It's clearly not an open-and-shut case.
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but Tesla hasn't released the claimed data
There's a process and some politics to follow here. After all nothing makes a regulation and testing body happier than to be openly and publicly shamed with proof that they are doing a crap job. It's one thing to counter their claims and then say you will work together to prove how good your car is, and quite another burn and bomb bridges with companies you are forced to work with in the future.
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Except that Musk has demonstrated in the past that he is NOT politically sensitive in that way. Musk is the Trump of tech, there is no subtlety with him.
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Actually to certain organisations he very much has. He takes a dimmer view on organisations which he doesn't need to rely on for certification (e.g. crash investigations, SEC, etc), but he's pretty much never published any data that directly calls into question the competence of these bodies. He's stated they have flawed testing, just like he's stated that safety ratings are flawed since he got a 5 star despite much better scores than other 5 start cars. He's openly criticised people verbally on Twitter, bu
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I think more likely than the "left the door open" story is that Tesla just tweaked the software a bit to increase the range during the test, i.e. a defeat device. It's only 2% so could easily be passed off as just an efficiency improvement or increasing the usable capacity of the battery slightly.
If not then it just raises the question as to why leaving the door open and key in the car used 2kWh of electricity overnight. Say it was left for 14 hours, that gives an average power draw of 142W. My laptop uses
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Eh, except now it was actually retested and did get the range?
But there was no retest: "EPA approved the new label value based on a review of the testing protocols and data submitted by Tesla and found it was complete and accurate. Fueleconomy.gov will be updated in about a week with this information. ... In other words, the EPA approved Tesla's right to advertise a 402-mile range rating for the latest version of the Model S Long Range Plus, but the agency has not conducted its own tests of the vehicle."
This is just an extension of the intrigue. Why would the EPA al
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Let's not forget: Musk has the telemetry (i.e. spyware). He knows what happens to every car.
Emphasis mine.
"After a negative experience several years ago with Top Gear, a popular automotive show, where they pretended that our car ran out of energy and had to be pushed back to the garage, we always carefully data log media drives . While the vast majority of journalists are honest, some believe the facts shouldn’t get in the way of a salacious story. In the case of Top Gear, they had literally written the script before they even received the car (we happened to find a copy of the script on a table while the car was being “tested”). Our car never even had a chance."
Again, emphasis mine. The source you've cited appears to contradict the point you're trying to make.
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The Tesla phone app can tell you where your car is. Tesla could therefore know where your car is.
Tesla is also training their self-driving by harvesting data from all the cars that have it. (Even when self-driving isn't enabled, it's still useful. Tesla doesn't require a detailed lidar map of roads before their cars can drive, but there are still some tricky things, and Telsa can study what human drivers do. There might be a bent metal sign that reflects radar so perfectly that it looks like a big scary
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Tesla's "learning" system works by having autopilot running and making decisions in the background. If those decisions differ from what the driver does it notes that, and if many cars find their drivers doing different things to what they expected in the same place a few will be randomly selected to upload some more data. And by more I mean gigabytes, people have seen very high data usage on their wifi (obviously Tesla is going to make you pay for it, not use their own expensive cellular connection).
Their h
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Musk saying he has the telemetry, or even showing it could prove nothing at all. Since they are the only ones to have the telemetry, they could also perfectly counterfeit it. It's not a third party and thus voids any confidence in their data in case of a conflict.
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Musk may have had the "telemetry" but that doesn't mean he actually showed it to you. That blog post is predicated on the integrity of Musk which we have learned since is questionable. There seems to be lying going on there, but your faith that Musk isn't doing it is misplaced. Never forget the pedophilia accusations, Musk needs to go down.
Yeah he has a gripe (Score:3, Informative)
"The real Model S range is 400 miles, but when we did the last EPA test, unfortunately, a TA left the car door open and the keys in the car," said Elon Musk at the time. "So the car -- and they did this overnight. And so, the car actually went into a waiting for driver mode and lost 2% of its range.
If true, the equivalent for a conventional ICE car would be to leave the engine running overnight, or maybe (just to to be fair) over the hour lunch break, and then continue the test. The gas lost during the break would be counted into the MPG estimate.
I don't think they do that to ICE vehicles.
So once again Musk will be regarded as the petulant brat who thinks the rules don't apply to him.
I say he has a legit beef.
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Most cars have implemented systems which
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I'ma let you finish but my 8 year old Ford will detect the engine running for more than 30 minutes with no movement, give you a warning (exactly as you describe), and then shuts itself down. You think it's a nice driver creature comfort feature but the real reason it does that is to protect itself because the shitty ass shitty transmission essentially cooks when at idle with no movement (trans fluid doesn't move, heat from engine block bakes fluid in the transmission not terrible on FWD but kills the AWD P
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Whereas with an EV there's nothing to indicate you accidentally left the car on, so can easily happen.
It's not a question of on or off. It's a question of a specific failure of process, in this case one that is traditionally (and by Tesla) also managed by *alerting* the user.
Seriously. Walk away from your car with the door open and the keys in the ignition. If it doesn't beep at you for doing so buy a car that was built this millenium.
What's "EPA-Rated Range"? (Score:2)
What's "EPA-Rated Range" and how does it differ from simply the "Range"?
Are there, perhaps, different methods/metrics being employed — a practice, which cost VW/Audi so much trouble [wikipedia.org]?
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What's "EPA-Rated Range" and how does it differ from simply the "Range"?
There are many different standards for quoting range. none of them are perfect, however the EPA range is the closest one to driver's actual experiences. Tesla loves however to use "ideal range" in various places in the car which is famously completely unachievable under almost any circumstance. (The software lets you choose between "ideal" and "rated" for the displays. The choice should be between "rated" and "actual" (based on past driving) but those numbers wouldn't look nearly as good.)
It's worth noting
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Tesla loves however to use "ideal range" in various places in the car which is famously completely unachievable under almost any circumstance.
See: Joe Isuzu [wikipedia.org], from a commercial, decades ago. [youtube.com]
Joe Isuzu: [This car's] top speed is 300 miles per hour.
Announcer: Downhill. In a hurricane.
Y'know, at this point, i'd imagine that to be the first widely known "Fake News" incident. It's "news", it's "correct", but only if viewed from a extremely specific and narrow angle, one that most people aren't aware of in the first place.
(Yes, I know it's not literally correct, but exaggeration was the point -- unlike now-a-days where commentary and view-framing
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What's "EPA-Rated Range" and how does it differ from simply the "Range"?
OK, I'll bite. How is simply the "Range" defined?
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This is a question for those, who've gone after VW/Audi for "cheating" on EPA tests, and robbed me of the A6 TDi option...
9 miles of range? (Score:2)
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Forget that question. My 8 year old American car will present you with a warning and then shut its self off when in "Driver mode" for more than 30 minutes. Why doesn't a fancy self driving car do the same? Or is there really a usecase where someone may want to sit in the car, idle, for an hour or longer. I'm going to bet this was an undocumented test case.
Code coverage exists for a reason....
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I hope it goes without saying that I agree with your point that it should be smart enough to not burn any power at all :)
However, I am still curious: 2.5kW-h is not a small amount of power. Even distributed over 12-15 hours, it's about as much as a domestic refrigerator is pulling.
I think what kind of bugs me a little is that there is no real accounting for what the car is actually doing. People are just using phrases like, "oh it's only 2% of its total charge" as if energy is just some mysterious thing tha
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There is the onboard computer that is running. Powering a boat load of sensors and cameras (being that Musk had it recorded every action). The battery also doesn’t like to be at 100% for too long, so the car may have tried to save the battery by burning some energy too.
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How do you know this, and why do you say that "Musk had it recorded every action"? You think Musk makes such engineering decisions?
Also, so what if it does? Does that justify the power draw? Why would a stationary car, IN STANDBY, do such a thing?
As for the battery not liking to be "at 100%", Tesla batteries are never at 100%. Just because this is understood regarding raw cells doesn't mean you can conclude anything about range tests. Also, even if that were true, why would you EVER assume that the car
Still stupid to buy one! (Score:1, Funny)
Even if it had 1,000KM a charge you'd still be an idiot to buy one:
Sure 1,000KM would sound like a lot and you could drive to work and back how many times? Maybe even not worry about charging between cities and hotel rooms! But in two years when the battery starts to fail, then what? We all know the idiots who are trying to sell their 2-4yrs old Tesla's for this very reason. Every single person I have ever met with a Tesla says the same thing for two or three years and then stops using it after four because
Very good impression of a moron (Score:2)
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You all might laugh and pretend that you know more than me, but a well known customer at my computer store was spitting bullets when he looked into that "8yr/150,000 mile" "warranty". He was still going to be paying for the privilege of replacing the battery and he had only been using the car as a daily driver for 3 years at that point. He was boiling mad!
But the issue I'm getting to here is that there are three fast charging stations in the town that customer lives in and they are always busy with people s
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The batteries are designed in a way where there is better heating and cooling not like you cellphone where the batteries die after a few years. As well smarter charging software where you normally charge 50-80% for your daily commute which puts less strain on the battery than going to fully charge overnight. Also if you want to fully charge it you can set it on a schedule to when you plan to leave where it hit 100% charge right before you leave reducing the wear on the battery.
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"The batteries are designed in a way where there is better heating and cooling not like you cellphone where the batteries die after a few years."
Cellphone batteries don't "die after a few years" due to inferior "heating and cooling". In fact, cellphones are likely to enjoy better temp control inherently than a car would.
Cellphone batteries have shorter lifetimes because of constant cycling, often every single day. If a Tesla were exposed to that, results would be different.
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Cell phone batteries are designed with multiple cells to reduce the full cycle count from charging cycles but they are still worthless after 400-450 cycles. As a guy that replaces Apple and Samsung batteries everyday, I tell people to watch that cycle count like a hawk. As the cells naturally degrade the cycle count will accelerate suddenly. Sell the phone or buy a new battery when that happens so that you can avoid the worst of it.
And no battery is immune to that horror.
Qybixxx
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But in two years when the battery starts to fail, then what?
Same thing you do if in 7.9 years your battery starts to fail, you take the car back to Tesla and say give me a new battery for free under your warranty program.
We all know the idiots who are trying to sell their 2-4yrs old Tesla's for this very reason.
Literally no one is trying to sell a 2 or 4 year old Tesla for this reason.
Every single person I have ever met with a Tesla says the same thing for two or three years and then stops
So how much did you short Telsa buy and how much money have you lost? I'm genuinely curious since the data conclusive shows that even if you run a professional chauffeur business that you won't run your battery down in 2 years. Interestingly many actual taxi companies are rep
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I've heard of companies investing in Tesla cars, but they all say they have contingencies in place to replace the batteries every few years.
Read.
Understand.
Then know that I'm only motivated by the desire to get what I can USE..
Qybixxx
ICE (Score:2)
I hate when I leave my car door open and a quarter gallon of gas evaporates over night...
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I hate when I leave my car door open and a quarter gallon of gas evaporates over night...
Well, no, but if you leave your ICE in that state, you'll come down to a dead battery, it won't start and the range will be a big fat zero.
Re: ICE (Score:2)
I don't know of any ICE vehicle whose battery is dead after a night of an open door. Headlights maybe, if it's been a full 12 hours or so.
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And you can always replace an ICE's battery... People will bring a battery to you even! Or bring jumpers.
Replaceable and refillable will always win.
Qybixxx
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It is more akin to having you ICE car idle overnight. Or having your laptop on sleep mode
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Except it's not like an ICE idling overnight AT ALL, and if it were "your laptop on sleep mode" range would not have been reduced 2%.
It is hard to imagine any explanation for such a great loss of range under those circumstances that doesn't include engineering error.
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I hate when I leave my car door open and a quarter gallon of gas evaporates over night...
Even worse. I left my car door open and the car wouldn't start at all in the morning. A gallon of gas I could deal with but a completely flat battery was crippling.
Re: ICE (Score:2)
I've definitely left the door open on my vehicle over night and had no problem starting it in the morning.
It probably depends on the age of the battery and your car's base draw, but that's just bad design.
My cheap Ford sedans have always been able to put up with an open door. They can even sometimes take a full 8 hour shift of headlights being on. The lights are dim after that, but it still starts.
I wish Tesla... (Score:2)
Would push its newer technology into its existing line of cars. The Model 3 has technology that the S and X does not have, the ability to charge at up to 250kW for one, The Model Y has technology the the M3 does not have, a really sophisticated heat pump for one.
The S has a heck of a lot of appeal over the 3, but it is really hard to get over paying more for older technology.