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Facebook Must Better Police Online Hate, State Attorneys General Say (nytimes.com) 132

Twenty state attorneys general on Wednesday called on Facebook to better prevent messages of hate, bias and disinformation from spreading, and said the company needed to provide more help to users facing online abuse. From a report: In a letter [PDF] to the social media giant, the officials said they regularly encountered people facing online intimidation and harassment on Facebook. They outlined seven steps the company should take, including allowing third-party audits of hate content and offering real-time assistance to users. "We hope to work with you to ensure that fewer individuals suffer online harassment and discrimination, and that it is quickly and effectively addressed when they do," said the letter, which was addressed to Facebook's chief executive, Mark Zuckerberg, and its chief operating officer, Sheryl Sandberg. The officials who signed the letter, all of them Democrats, represent states including New York, New Jersey, Illinois and California, as well as the District of Columbia. The letter adds to the rising pressure facing Mr. Zuckerberg and his company to stop disinformation and harassment on Facebook. Civil rights leaders, advertisers and some of the company's own employees have criticized Facebook for failing to curtail the spread of noxious content. Extremists and conspiracists have turned to social media -- most often Facebook, Twitter and YouTube -- to circulate falsehoods about the coronavirus pandemic, the coming presidential election and Black Lives Matter protests.

Facebook and other social media companies have made some changes to dismantle misinformation and hate on their services. Last month, Twitter announced that it would remove thousands of accounts associated with the fringe conspiracy movement QAnon, saying their messages could lead to harm and violated Twitter policy. In June, Facebook took down a network of accounts tied to boogaloo, an antigovernment movement in the United States that encourages violence. That same month, YouTube banned six channels for violating its policies, including those of two prominent white supremacists, David Duke and Richard Spencer. But according to the attorneys general, Facebook in particular has not done enough. The officials pointed to Facebook's recent Civil Rights Audit -- which found that advertisers could still run ads that painted a religious group as a threat to the "American way of life" -- as evidence that the social network had fallen short. "Facebook has a hate speech, discrimination, disinformation problem," Attorney General Gurbir S. Grewal, of New Jersey, who led the letter, said in an interview. "The way I view it, as an attorney general, is that it directly affects public safety in my state, that the groups that are allowed to find community online, on Facebook, allow hate to be normalized."

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Facebook Must Better Police Online Hate, State Attorneys General Say

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  • by Excelcia ( 906188 ) <slashdot@excelcia.ca> on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:34PM (#60370079) Homepage Journal

    If governments want to moderate contents, then they should legislate away privacy and make people post under their own names. Then the policing can be done by the police. Until then, as long as constitutions and laws grant the right to privacy, then what people do with it will always be a mixed bag.

    They don't get it both ways. They can't pay lip service to privacy and then pin the onus on policing on the platforms. They aren't police, and I for one don't want them policing anything. No, if a government is going to get huffy on online content, then they can take the heat and try and legislate away our privacy and confront the problem head on.

    • by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:51PM (#60370143)
      Until then, as long as constitutions and laws grant the right to privacy

      Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that the US has any privacy laws that go beyond medical records.
      • It's almost like you don't consider the Constitution to be a set of laws...

        • by DogDude ( 805747 )
          The word "privacy" is not in the US Constitution. You can read if yourself, if you'd like. Here's a link in case you have trouble finding it: https://constitutioncenter.org... [constitutioncenter.org]
          • by lessSockMorePuppet ( 6778792 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:26PM (#60370263) Homepage

            What exactly do you think requiring a search warrant is?

            If there's no privacy, warrants are a meaningless concept. If you agree, then let me plant drugs in your house and tip the cops off. You'll be sure to invite them in for tea and scones with a side of blow, just before you break out in handcuffs.

            • by DogDude ( 805747 )
              A search warrant relates to illegal search and seizure. It doesn't have anything to do with "privacy" as far as I know. 4th Amendment.
              • by lessSockMorePuppet ( 6778792 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:54PM (#60370367) Homepage

                A) search: you wouldn't even need the legal term 'search' if there was no privacy. Privacy and property rights go hand in hand. If you have no property, you have no way of obtaining privacy (e.g., preventing photon collisions and subsequent absorption by someone else's eyeball). If you have property rights, but affirmatively state that you have no expectation of privacy, then anyone could traipse into your house--and that would give the lie to your supposed property rights.

                B) seizure: relates to property rights, at best a tangent to privacy. There's also arrest warrants, etc., but the ones that are really concerning with respect to privacy are search warranta.

                Or maybe you claim you rightfully own that cocaine, and they were wrong to deprive you of your property rights to illegal cocaine? I'll give you a gold star if you make the argument to them.

                • Nah, that doesn't work. You could build a glass house in a populated area, thus effectively abandoning your privacy, but the cops still can't just come in without a warrant or probable cause (though you're handing them "plain sight" exceptions), and you could still use force if someone walked in without permission (best not to throw rocks at them though).
          • The word "privacy" is not in the US Constitution.

            It didn't need to be; there were fewer ways - by multiple orders of magnitude - that privacy could even be placed at risk in the late 1700's. It's a fucking given that privacy is an implicit right in this country, whether it's been enumerated or not.

          • The word "privacy" is not in the US Constitution.

            True.

            Then again, neither does the words "poop", "fornicate", or "spelunk", but you generally have the right to do those things.

            So, what does the Constitution say?

            "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,"

            A little old-fashioned and formal, but its meaning is clear: You have the right to privacy ... except when there is probably cause that you committe

          • Other words/phrases not in the Constitution:

            Breathe
            Sleep
            Eat
            Yawn
            Self-Defense
            Pray
            Walk
            Look

            Someone, no me, but someone, would argue that you don't have a right to any of those things.

        • Well, it isn't. It's the contract defining the role, structure, basic function and limitations of the Federal government. Thus it provides the basis for the legitimate creation and enforcement of laws. It may rhetorically be referred to as law, but really isn't.
      • by JeffOwl ( 2858633 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:15PM (#60370227)
        The United States Supreme Court has decided in a number of cases that the right to privacy is, for lack of a better word, implied in more than one clause of the US Constitution. So even though it was not explicitly stated as a "right to privacy" it has become a law of the land in the US through precedent set by SCOTUS.
        • by DogDude ( 805747 )
          Which case was that, please?
          • by Jarwulf ( 530523 )
            RoeVWade.
            • by Third Position ( 1725934 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @06:08PM (#60370579)

              Nope. Griswold v. Connecticut. [oyez.org]

            • by Kyr Arvin ( 5570596 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @06:10PM (#60370583)

              Even for those of us who think Roe V. Wade has been helpful and that women SHOULD have access to safe, legal abortion, that court case was on extremely shaky legal reasoning. It made little sense. It was very much an "end justifies the means" decision, in that the reasoning was unsound, but it arrived at a decision we wanted anyway.

              It probably will be overturned, and it probably should be overturned; the value of precedent is the only thing propping it up. But it would sadden me at the same time to see it go because of what the consequences will be.

              • This is what happens when you tunnel through the foundation of your house, for better or worse, instead of doing it laboriously and correctly with an Amendment.

                You make a devil's bargain when you take the convenient over the correct with respect to the law and government and the social contract.

              • Well, in some ways it has been. I don't recall the exact cases, but it has been superseded. I don't know why they thought they had to invent "a penumbra" of a right that doesn't exist when existing property rights should have been sufficient. Simply stating that one's body is their inalienable property and that no government can have authority over what happens inside it seems like a much better line of reasoning to me. Even if it might complicate the authority to perform cavity searches.
          • by omnichad ( 1198475 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:40PM (#60370313) Homepage

            Ignoring precedent, the 4th amendment makes it sound pretty clear already:

            "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

            I don't know how you can violate privacy without violating one of those things.

            • Eavesdropping.

              Peeping.

              Following someone around and taking photos.

              Besides, those are restrictions placed on government, and privacy can be violated by anyone. Even if there was no way to violate someone's privacy without violating any aspect of the 3rd-5th Amendments, that wouldn't mean privacy was a protected right, just that it was protected as an unintended side-effect. It would be a logical fallacy (affirming the consequent I think) to state that privacy was being protected. By which I mean tha

          • Which case was that, please?

            Roe v. Wade - The right to first-trimester abortions was based on an implied right to privacy.

            This doesn't make much sense. Abortion rights should have been based on property rights: A woman's right to own and control her own body. But, nonetheless, that is not the way the case was decided.

        • The United States Supreme Court has decided in a number of cases that the right to privacy is, for lack of a better word, implied in more than one clause of the US Constitution.

          Unless you are within 100 miles of a border.

          LOL

    • by znrt ( 2424692 )

      if you want to do away with privacy then let it be all privacy, including that of corporations, state officials, military ... everyone.

      anyway, i even like the outlandish suggestions of attorneys general even less than yours. you're directly advocating for a police state, they're just making a fuzz.
      (https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/facebook-attorneys-general-letter/50738870562dec84/full.pdf)

      harassment is illegal and police can act when someone denounces it, as they have always been able to and expected

      • anyway, i even like the outlandish suggestions of attorneys general even less than yours. you're directly advocating for a police state,

        Whooooosh. Way to totally miss the thrust of OP's argument. It was subtle, I'll grant you, but usually we just call it, "the rule of law". You do things correctly or not at all.

        There are no inherent guarantees that the right thing will be easy. It is frequently the opposite. Giving in to the temptation of the easy over the correct leads to the corrupt.

    • More than that, the state AGs are asking Facebook to police speech. If Facebook doesn't do that, then what? They sue Facebook for something the constitution prohibits them from doing?

      • More than that, the state AGs are asking Facebook to police speech.

        And they'll change their tune if FB actually bans all hate speech, like "#CancelWhitePeople".

        We're in a dangerous position where it's not the content of the message that is considered hate speech, but whether the messenger and the targets are of the correct demographics.

        The people who are arguing so vehemently that those who think all lives matter are racist don't realise that that very same logic and rules can be used against them because it is all subjective.

    • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      ?!? Facebook is the problem because people use real names. Internet around for decades, social media, no one really cared everyone had fun, some were abusive no on really cared. The REAL NAME social media and it all turned to shite you PR HACK.

      REAL NAME social media is the problem and you want more real names, LIAR, just a smoke screen to hide behind, you real name media troll.

      REAL NAME is the problem and they should be bloody obvious to all and those companies who use it publicly should be held fully le

  • by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:35PM (#60370087) Homepage

    Normally, private actors like these companies are not governed by the First Amendment. But when a private entity does things on behalf of, or at the direction of, the government, they become a sort of agent of the government. In this case, those actions can lead to actionable infringement of civil rights.

    Does this letter establish that much agency? If not, how much farther would the state AGs have to go before courts recognize the companies as agents of the government with respect to these moderation policies?

    • that can be traced back to government regulation. And good luck with that.

      Even if Facebook did crack down on hate speech (unlikely, they seem to be making a lot of money off it) you'd have to trace that back to a government action.

      At that point you can start to litigate it. You might not win that battle, since hate speech often does end in actual violence, which the state AGs have a legitimate right to investigate.

      That said, I don't think it matters. This is just grandstanding by a bunch of AGs
    • What concerns me are shutting off ISP access/peering and domain name seizures.

      Those are utility functions in modern society. If you violently take their servers and their domain name then you validate their arguments about censorship.

      It's not right to seize their personal property operating over an "open" public common and prevent them access to it because of their beliefs, hateful or otherwise with the caveat that the moment it crosses the line into a demonstrable physical manifestation (flesh/bone/propert

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @06:42PM (#60370667) Homepage Journal

      They seem to be concerned that crimes are taking place on Facebook and Facebook isn't doing enough to stop them.

      Harassment and abuse can be criminal matters, that's well established.

      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        So? In the US, no one -- not even police -- has a general obligation to prevent the crimes if another person like you suggest. If the state AGs want to prosecute those crimes, they can do that. If the AGs want to subpoena social media companies for information that is relevant to the alleged crimes, they can do that. But if the state AGs enlist companies in efforts to prevent or punish crime, those companies become agents of the state and subject to constitutional constraints.

  • by Camel Pilot ( 78781 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:36PM (#60370089) Homepage Journal

    When considering laws, regulations or procedures to curb "hate" speech the question should always be asked how could a wannabe authoritarian leader with dictator tendencies use this to their own advantage if they had the power.

    For example I could easily see a narcissistic ego-obsessed transactional leader claim that all negative or critical comments directed at himself constitute "hate" speech and should be censored and the violators punished.

    • Clearly the absence of those laws would hold up those claims from an ego-obsessed transactional leader. Oh well, back to banning Tik Tok somehow. I heard those people are mean to our current POTUS.

    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @04:40PM (#60370315)
      how we prevent a wannabe authoritarian leader with dictator tendencies from using platforms to spread their message and convert the country into a dictatorship.

      To be honest I don't know how. I do know that the Nazis used the existing power structures and platforms to their advantage until they were in power and then that was that, no more free speech.

      It's a long standing paradox. You have to be intolerant of intolerance or the intolerant will crush you. I think we had a bit of a balance going until Social Media kind of screwed that up. We need to put serious thought to how to address it or authoritarians will use it against us and we'll lose everything.
      • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

        TL;DR: We, the Good People, need to censor, or those Bad People will censor.

        Change the Constitution if you don't like it. Until then, tough.

        • you haven't addressed the very real danger of Authoritarians using our social structures against us. Instead you've crossed your arms and pouted like a spoiled child.

          I'm not saying I have the answers, but I do know this: if we leave it as is we're boned. About 20% of the population is easily misled and they're more than enough to fuck the entire country up, especially in a First Past the Post, Winner Take All political system like ours.

          As it stands we've cleared all 14 of the 14 characteristics of f
      • Yes, you need that balance, that moderation to keep things stable. The idea of abandoning compromise has terrible implications. The Nazis had an easy sell to people who felt beat down by the Treaty of Versailles. It's easy to sell snake oil to those who are feeling sick and helpless. The physical and moral truths of the matter were irrelevant. Ultimately, the choice to stand firm in your intolerance of intolerance leads to the option of war, and you have to decide if it's worth it. If we can agree that

        • I'd always heard that too, but I've since learned they weren't actually paying any of the reparations, and that they'd paid the last of them sometime in the 80s or 90s.

          Moreover I don't think we've put serious thought about how to control racism & bigotry (which seem to be natural to humans, we're easily frightened of "the other") while maintaining a free society.

          Right now the main thing I'm seeing is "Name & Shame" where outright racists get called Karens & Kyles, have their vids go vira
      • toward NAZIsm when our previous president announce he planned to "fundamentally transform" the United States of America and then proceeded to use the DOJ, the FBI, the CIA , the IRS, the State Department and Foreign spies against his political opponents. He used the powers of government to try to make NUNS violate their consciences! He ordered average citizens to buy a commercial product that HE designed and priced (Obama care plans). He took over huge parts of the economy (major auto companies) and sold t

      • how we prevent a wannabe authoritarian leader with dictator tendencies from using platforms to spread their message and convert the country into a dictatorship.

        You don't.

        Protection against dictators comes from a strong separation of powers between the executive, legislative, and judicial branches. Separation of powers between different levels of government. And a military that is firmly under the command of civil authorities. If your concern is about a dictator taking power then the answer is to limit the power of the government, not curtail the rights of citizens.

        It's not a paradox, it's a power grab. The people pushing for censorship aren't trying to protect de

        • If your concern is about a dictator taking power then the answer is to limit the power of the government, not curtail the rights of citizens.

          The government is made up of citizens. You need to limit the rights of citizens to take away the rights of other citizens. So yes you ARE limiting the rights of people, but doing it for the greater good. That's where the paradox lies. You need to limit the rights of people in order to maximize the overall rights.

          "government" is just a convention, it's people all the

      • how we prevent a wannabe authoritarian leader with dictator tendencies from using platforms to spread their message and convert the country into a dictatorship.

        You want to restrict the speech of an individual because you're afraid that people will vote for those ideas, and yet you are calling others authoritarian? What you are proposing is almost the textbook definition of fascism.

        To be honest I don't know how. I do know that the Nazis used the existing power structures and platforms to their advantage until they were in power and then that was that, no more free speech.

        Actually, the Nazis rose from the hard-left (which is where you are right now); people voted for them because they were saying exactly the same thing you are saying now. It's a long standing paradox. You have to be intolerant of intolerance or the intolerant will crush you. I think we

      • Be intolerant how? By not letting "intolerant" speech go unchallenged, or by silencing that which you consider intolerant?

        And where does the actual meaning of tolerance come in? Tolerance is not approval, acceptance or support; it's allowance. An absence of active resistance. If you try to silence someone's opinion on the basis of their alleged intolerance, then you are in the wrong. If you are arguing against someone who wants to silence opinions they find intolerable, you are in the right. If you

    • This has already happened, just not directly from a sitting President.
  • ... AGs' letter makes me feel like I'm being repressed.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:41PM (#60370109)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by cb88 ( 1410145 )
      I've seen a patriotic image of a soldiers wife weeping over her husband's coffin... hidden as graphic or fake news etc.
    • by mark-t ( 151149 )

      It's my understanding that the technical definition of "hate speech" is any form of speech or communication that marginalizes any explicitly legally protected class of people, such as sex or sexual preference, nation of origin, skin color, age, etc...

      Political leaning is not an explicitly protected class by law, afaik. Draw from that what you will.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DogDude ( 805747 )
      Facebook is a Democrat online platform, and the sooner they admit it, the sooner everybody who is not can leave them.

      ... because right-wingers are being forced to use Facebook?
    • See, everything I see suggests that FB has a strong right wing leaning. It's full of right wing content

      Hell, did you see the other story on /.'s front page about how Instragram is pushing a right wing narrative in their search results?

    • it's their platform. The AGs are just grandstanding or cheap publicity. It worked. We're talking about them.
    • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Do you have any solid evidence of these claims other than potentially cherry-picked examples? I'm sure a lot of both left and right riff-raff get through because FB doesn't have enough people to review it all.

    • Who defines "hate"? Facebook seems to think that ANY speech from Republicans and conservatives is hate.

      Well that's some wild histrionics. It's a also demonstrably untrue.

      The problem is the American right won't kick the nasty batshit elements out, so being against the batshit wingnuts means (according to the right) being against the whole of the right. I can hear you in drawing a big breath to eviscerate the left (as if that justifies the right somehow) and insult me at the same time for being a Marxist or

  • .... can't you just block their content so that you don't see it?
    • I wish Zuck would just come out and say that. If you dislike Trump's social media then why are you reading it?

      • by mark-t ( 151149 )
        Nobody who isn't otherwise interested in following Trump really needs to read any his social media to know what he's saying... anything that's actually newsworthy always makes the rounds on assorted news sites within a day.
    • .... can't you just block their content so that you don't see it?

      The AGs don't want to control what they see. They want to control what YOU see.

  • by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Wednesday August 05, 2020 @03:44PM (#60370115)
    Social media is the problem? While I agree that it's a bullhorn for that crap and maybe we should turn down the volume a bit, it's a little hard for me to take the government seriously about the evils of "hate speech on social media" when there are a lot of governors and state representatives that are full-blown conspiracy theorists and white supremecists....and the people seem to keep re-electing them. Right up to the top of the executive branch, the people seem to be rewarding you-misunderstood-me-I'm-not-racist-heh-heh speech, conspiracy theory slinging, and sometimes stepping over the line into what I would consider full-blown hate-talk.

    Just about the only guy I can think of who ACTUALLY got thrown out of office because he went too far was David Duke. Well.... That's what we consider progress????? You can't OPENLY wear your white hood anymore.... I guess that's the line nowadays.

    We've seen the problem, and the problem is us. Our society has a LONG way to go.
    • Who are these "white supremacists" you refer to and upon what evidence do you base that claim?
  • Online harassment is already a crime, just as offline harassment is. What these Attorney Generals are aiming for is to have Facebook and other online entities to sidestep the courts and punish crimes as-defined-by-the-man without legal recourse.
  • How dare users act like politicians.

  • It's been sorted out time and time again in State and Federal Supreme Courts-- the 1st Amendment protects hate speech. Why has this been decided? Because multiple public American universities, with the best intentions at heart, have been trying to institute anti-hate speech polices/codes since the 1970s/1980s. Unfortunately, no one has been able to write an anti-hate speech code that isn't overly vague and when the government (such as a public university) seeks to restrict a right, the restriction must be n

  • More than right of center speech is pretty much banned on all social media. What kind of hate is being allowed on social media that people are worried about?
  • If they blocked Hate on facebook, what would the Facebook editors trend?

  • Rappers are still making hate songs. Black leaders still making their racist speech. Leftist newspaper editors still making their anti-white hate speech.

    • I guess you missed the story about how some Facebook employees were complaining because Facebook was taking down anti-white posts from black users, on the basis of the utterly absurd claims that only white people can be racist and that the way to fight racism is with more racism.

      I was pleasantly surprised to see that Facebook was enforcing that policy in a way that wasn't actually racist.

  • This story is by the NYT (a Democrat-aligned rag that recently fired an editor for the crime of publishing an oped by a Republican Senator), and is about a bunch of Democrats demanding Facebook go even more fascist (in the classic REAL fascist way, where government controls the public indirectly through control of businesses). They label any speech they don't like as "hate speech" and then say they're not partisan at all, they're just opposed to hate..... while ignoring spittle-spewing, bile-spewing acidic

  • People talk about hate as if it is possible, feasible or even desireable to remove it altogether, from all people, for all times. Rather than talking about liberty, who watches the watchers, the how and if to remove and police speech, I would like to remind and address the elephant in the room:

    Hate is a basic human emotion. It is pointless, futile and outright dystopic to try and externally police something like verbally expressing a basic emotion. One could argue that even most higher mammals or other soci

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