China Secretly Built a Vast New Infrastructure To Imprison Muslims (buzzfeednews.com) 271
In a series of investigations, BuzzFeed News used satellite images to reveal 268 newly-built internment camps for Muslims in the Xinjiang region. Longtime Slashdot reader wiredog shares the reports with us.
Part 1: China Secretly Built A Vast New Infrastructure To Imprison Muslims
Part 2: What They Saw: Ex-Prisoners Detail The Horrors Of China's Detention Camps
Part 3: Blanked Out Spots On China's Maps Helped Us Uncover Xinjiang's Camps
Here's an excerpt from Part 1 of their investigation: China has secretly built scores of massive new prison and internment camps in the past three years, dramatically escalating its campaign against Muslim minorities even as it publicly claimed the detainees had all been set free. The construction of these purpose-built, high-security camps -- some capable of housing tens of thousands of people -- signals a radical shift away from the country's previous makeshift use of public buildings, like schools and retirement homes, to a vast and permanent infrastructure for mass detention. In the most extensive investigation of China's internment camp system ever done using publicly available satellite images, coupled with dozens of interviews with former detainees, BuzzFeed News identified more than 260 structures built since 2017 and bearing the hallmarks of fortified detention compounds. There is at least one in nearly every county in the far-west region of Xinjiang. During that time, the investigation shows, China has established a sprawling system to detain and incarcerate hundreds of thousands of Uighurs, Kazakhs, and other Muslim minorities, in what is already the largest-scale detention of ethnic and religious minorities since World War II.
These forbidding facilities -- including several built or significantly expanded within the last year -- are part of the government's unprecedented campaign of mass detention of more than a million people, which began in late 2016. That year Chen Quanguo, the region's top official and Communist Party boss, whom the US recently sanctioned over human rights abuses, also put Muslim minorities -- more than half the region's population of about 25 million -- under perpetual surveillance via facial recognition cameras, cellphone tracking, checkpoints, and heavy-handed human policing. They are also subject to many other abuses, ranging from sterilization to forced labor. To detain thousands of people in short order, the government repurposed old schools and other buildings. Then, as the number of detainees swelled, in 2018 the government began building new facilities with far greater security measures and more permanent architectural features, such as heavy concrete walls and guard towers, the BuzzFeed News analysis shows. Prisons often take years to build, but some of these new compounds took less than six months, according to historical satellite data. The government has also added more factories within camp and prison compounds during that time, suggesting the expansion of forced labor within the region. Construction was still ongoing as of this month.
BuzzFeed News identified 268 newly built compounds by cross-referencing blanked-out areas on Baidu Maps -- a Google Maps-like tool that's widely used in China -- with images from external satellite data providers. These compounds often contained multiple detention facilities.
Part 1: China Secretly Built A Vast New Infrastructure To Imprison Muslims
Part 2: What They Saw: Ex-Prisoners Detail The Horrors Of China's Detention Camps
Part 3: Blanked Out Spots On China's Maps Helped Us Uncover Xinjiang's Camps
Here's an excerpt from Part 1 of their investigation: China has secretly built scores of massive new prison and internment camps in the past three years, dramatically escalating its campaign against Muslim minorities even as it publicly claimed the detainees had all been set free. The construction of these purpose-built, high-security camps -- some capable of housing tens of thousands of people -- signals a radical shift away from the country's previous makeshift use of public buildings, like schools and retirement homes, to a vast and permanent infrastructure for mass detention. In the most extensive investigation of China's internment camp system ever done using publicly available satellite images, coupled with dozens of interviews with former detainees, BuzzFeed News identified more than 260 structures built since 2017 and bearing the hallmarks of fortified detention compounds. There is at least one in nearly every county in the far-west region of Xinjiang. During that time, the investigation shows, China has established a sprawling system to detain and incarcerate hundreds of thousands of Uighurs, Kazakhs, and other Muslim minorities, in what is already the largest-scale detention of ethnic and religious minorities since World War II.
These forbidding facilities -- including several built or significantly expanded within the last year -- are part of the government's unprecedented campaign of mass detention of more than a million people, which began in late 2016. That year Chen Quanguo, the region's top official and Communist Party boss, whom the US recently sanctioned over human rights abuses, also put Muslim minorities -- more than half the region's population of about 25 million -- under perpetual surveillance via facial recognition cameras, cellphone tracking, checkpoints, and heavy-handed human policing. They are also subject to many other abuses, ranging from sterilization to forced labor. To detain thousands of people in short order, the government repurposed old schools and other buildings. Then, as the number of detainees swelled, in 2018 the government began building new facilities with far greater security measures and more permanent architectural features, such as heavy concrete walls and guard towers, the BuzzFeed News analysis shows. Prisons often take years to build, but some of these new compounds took less than six months, according to historical satellite data. The government has also added more factories within camp and prison compounds during that time, suggesting the expansion of forced labor within the region. Construction was still ongoing as of this month.
BuzzFeed News identified 268 newly built compounds by cross-referencing blanked-out areas on Baidu Maps -- a Google Maps-like tool that's widely used in China -- with images from external satellite data providers. These compounds often contained multiple detention facilities.
No more junkets to Syria? (Score:3, Informative)
China is withdrawing its fighters [alarabiya.net]?
Fail (Score:5, Insightful)
Come on, Hollywood and NBA! Open your yappers! You boycott US states for far less (and I agree with those boycotts) but for stuff like Hong Kong, millions are on the line, so you stay silent, or criticise dissent there, so they don't disrupt your movie sales, or sports broadcasts, or gym shoe manufacturing, or video game sales.
You have a chance to put your money where your mouth is, but so far you've failed.
Say it! Say it! Just like Hong Kong "they should watch what they say!"
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Millions? If it were millions, hollywood would happily boycott. This is about billions of dollars. Tens of billions. The type of money that makes millions look like pocket change, and morals like a liability.
Re: Fail (Score:2)
All hail the mighty dollar
In god we trust, all others pay cash.
Re:Fail (Score:5, Interesting)
I am sure a lot of people do that individually. Last year, I refused to travel to China over the Hong Kong crack down for a work trip that wasn't mandatory.
Commercially, it is currently impossible to avoid anything produced in China. Even if the product is not straight up made in China, there are components produced in China in almost everything that you buy.
For companies in Hollywood, the NBA, large tech companies. You are probably talking about 30% of their sales.
Really, that's a place where one needs a state-wide approach to the problem.
Gee, what happened three years ago that could have (Score:2)
Must be one of those funny coincidences, eh? Couldn't possibly be that Xi was worried about who was keeping an eye on China and China's Muslims up till then.
Now I feel like I have to read the article to try to figure out what else could have been going on at that time. The Uyghurs do have a rather long history of giving "trouble" to the central Chinese government.
Re: Gee, what happened three years ago that could (Score:2)
You cant seriously compete with the US by making cheap electronics if you actually PAY someone working 14hrs a day! Cmon now! You do it by making these slaves, i mean prisoners with jobs, work 14hrs a day for free.
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I don't know, Apple managed it and the fanbois applauded them for exploiting those Foxconn workers (to suicide in cases) and not even selling the resulting products cheaply.
Of all the atrocities China commits... (Score:2)
Don't screw up relationship with China ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems like the future is outsourcing prisons (Score:3)
We could send all the violent/life sentenced prisoners to a nice new prison in China for a fraction of what it costs to house them in the private prison system.
Death row could probably be emptied out for all the states in a couple weeks. /S?
This is a prelude to genocide (Score:5, Insightful)
And you know what, unless we remove Chinese labor from the supply chain of our products, we are just as guilty as they are.
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Why commit genocide if you can just re-educate people? China has survived Mao's cultural revolution and probably has a different perspective to Americans on re-education. China for example has not felt it necessary to invade the middle east and fight proxy wars there because of Muslim terrorism on it's own territory. Frankly I do not know which is worse, drone attacks on weddings or re-education camps.
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What happened to "Never again?" (Score:2)
Stupid primates... We didn't learn anything from WWII. I guess we have to wait for China to have their "invasion of Poland" moment, so we can get the rest of the world organized and go stop them. Will it be Taiwan? Personally, I hope they try to invade some territory in Vietnam - that always ends well...
Re:What happened to "Never again?" (Score:4, Insightful)
Key difference here: Large scale military conflict is off the table. Border conflicts, sure. Little regional battles, maybe even sink a ship. Lots of proxy wars too - each side backing their favored dictators to fight the enemy's favored dictators. But an all out war? The only outcome would be nuclear obliteration for everyone involved.
China might one day try to invade Taiwan because they know that no ally of Taiwan would dare defend them, for fear of triggering exactly that outcome.
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China might one day try to invade Taiwan because they know that no ally of Taiwan would dare defend them, for fear of triggering exactly that outcome.
What is probably stopping them know is the knowledge that they probably can't take the island without nuking it into oblivion.
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China might one day try to invade Taiwan because they know that no ally of Taiwan would dare defend them, for fear of triggering exactly that outcome.
Probably not, the Chinese government has already used cyber attacks and espionage to steal much of the microchip technology that was held by companies in Taiwan.
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and then foxcon will get them at $0/HR to win back (Score:2)
and then foxcon will get them at $0/HR to win back factory work
State Atheism (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:State Atheism (Score:5, Insightful)
I would like you to spend time reading about women's rights in Islamic nations (especially in Africa), and once you have done that, you are to stand in the corner and think about what you'd done.
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It's not the atheism, it's the communism. Communism/socialism requires equality of outcome, as a result you have no room for diverging thoughts.
Genocide, schmenocide.... (Score:2)
But would they build one for... (Score:2)
All current and recent members of the US senate and congress, plus presidents?
China getting a pass from the Muslim world? (Score:2)
Why has the Muslim world been so quiet on this? Is it because China isn't entwined in Mideast politics?
Re: (Score:2)
They're doing their best to become entwined there, via the Belt And Road Initiative. The plan is to build huge amounts of infrastructure and basically indebt the countries to China. (Seems like a better plan than bombing everything and occupying the country.) They've got their sights set on pretty much all of Eurasia, plus Africa. The #1 recipient is currently Pakistan with $31.9 billion in infrastructure built, plus billions more in investments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative
The Jihadist (Score:2)
Won't be happy to hear about this.
So genocide is fine (Score:2)
Seriously, those muslim terrorists shouldn't be blowing up us westerners, they should be blowing up half of china...
Trump (Score:2)
I eagerly await the hoards of Trump haters spin on how Trump's feud with China is at fault because Trump secretly hates Muslims.
With about 70d left to the election (Score:3)
Just remember which party complained loudly and consistently when Trump started a trade war with China insisting on a number of changes in their behavior.
Money where mouth is (Score:3)
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Because the Uighurs and Kazahks aren't being imprisoned for what they DID but for what they ARE.
I'm sure you approved of the Japanese internment camps too.
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Because the Uighurs and Kazahks aren't being imprisoned for what they DID but for what they ARE.
I'm sure you approved of the Japanese internment camps too.
The only difference between China and he current US administration is that the CCP is already doing what the Trump and his base would like to do. The problem for the US nativist community is that they would very much like to lock up all the brown people and particularly all the Muslims but at the same time they'd like to criticise the CPP for doing the same thing and even they realise the massive hypocrisy of doing that.
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Nice try Obama, stop posting AC.
Listen Putin, based upon the ACTIONS of Trump and his RETARD base, your parent is spot on.
I wish we as a country would just say out loud what religious freedom REALLY means here in the US of fascist A: Religious Freedom ONLY applies to Christians who are Republicans.
A Republican Christian worships an evil god who kills indiscriminately. Jesus says to kill fags and blacks - unless they are a in a woman's womb - then they are sacred. But once born, it is A-OKAY to shoot them in the back several times because
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Probably wouldn't be as much of an issue if US didn't fuck up the Middle East, allowing Uyghurs and Kazahks to go train in terrorism techniques in places like Syria. The next step was to call the war on terror over, allowing these Uyghurs and Kazahks to go back home to their native countries to "fight". It's not just China that's worried about these guys, all of Central Asia is worried because of US fucking things up.
Re:Look at yourself America (Score:4, Informative)
not necessarily - the Uyghurs have been wanting a separate state for years, and have fought not only terror attacks in China, but also nipped over to Afghanistan and Syria to fight alongside their Muslim brothers.
So, its not about Islam here - China has mosques all over the country, but about totalitarian control of an ethnic gorup that doesn't want to do as they're told.
However, its probably a long and complex situation where nobody comes out looking good - particularly not the Chinese, but neither the Uyghurs or Islamists are the "good guys"
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Even putting that aside I'd go as far as to call what you're
Re:Look at yourself America (Score:5, Insightful)
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I sure hope they won't, it's going to break their house!
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I sure hope they won't, it's going to break their house!
Wow, congratulations on getting that idiom, Moran. Stay in school.
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"spelt"
Re:Look at yourself America (Score:4, Insightful)
Country A being shitty doesn't excuse Country B from also being shitty. The two are not mutually exclusive, and since entire countries do not have a hive mind, don't you think there might be a few people in the US that aren't happy with the domestic mass-incarceration as well?
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Country A being shitty doesn't excuse Country B from also being shitty. The two are not mutually exclusive, and since entire countries do not have a hive mind, don't you think there might be a few people in the US that aren't happy with the domestic mass-incarceration as well?
Country (US)A criticising country B for persecuting minorities when the leadership of country (US)A has openly declared at campaign rallies that they'd like to persecute minorities is hypocrisy. Pointing that out is not what-aboutism it's pointing out the complete and utter hypocrisy of the leadership of country (US)A. If you don't like that go apply some ointment to your butthurt.
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You appear to be the one incapable of getting a firm grasp on the idea that the United States Government, specifically THIS incarnation of the United States Government does not speak for a great many of it's citizens that vehemently deplore this administrations actions, and that this administration does not hold the moral high ground on a great many things they wish to opine about to other nations; and there is a non-trivial quantity of US citizens that recognize this, would love to see it change (and activ
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Re: Look at yourself America (Score:2)
Im not debating whether china was right or wrong. Only your weak ass failure in a debate by crying whataboutism. I personally think china is using prisons to fill factories with slave labor. The UN certainly thinks so.
Your retort SHOULD have been those past transgressions were certainly disgusting but does not in any way excuse chinas decision to make all their muslims into slaves for their political and economic power. Two wrongs do not make a right. Acknowledge it and then move to more points. Crying what
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Re: Look at yourself America (Score:5, Insightful)
Many of us are trying do away with unintentional support of slave labor - both in our own country and abroad. Given there are numerous reports of slave labor in China being used to create the tech gadgets we purchase (see one link among many provided during a quick Google search), I think it's worthwhile to be aware of and educated on the topic.
I'm also advocating for reform of the "justice" system in the US. It would seem hypocritical to do what I can to remove my support of slave labor here while happily supporting it elsewhere.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28... [cnn.com]
Re: Look at yourself America (Score:3, Insightful)
And that is how you make a point without using the stupid word whataboutism. You acknowledge and then you move on with your attacks. You counter by pointing out the steps being made to correct and how that it will not excuse future transgressions. I happen to agree that China is a shit hole slave making country. I just really hate people that debate so poorly they throw mulligans.
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yes but in a debate, someone makes a point, you score it as a point. If I point out that you have a history of this too, then I also get another point, thereby making your point in the argument less significant. You dont get to scream whataboutism and expect to keep your point and negate mine. Thats why hypocrisy comes in. To expect your accusation to be completely damning, but the counter argument to be completely powerless. In reality it should mean that if that is your only point you can make, your argum
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You seem to have that backwards. The internment camps in Xinxiang are labor camps, and the people swept up in them need not be put on trial at all. American prisons are bound to sentences handed down by court of law. It's like you don't even know anything about due process.
Re:Look at yourself America (Score:5, Insightful)
The country with the most prisoner per capita in the world is not well placed to criticize others about emprisonment.
America is not a monolith.
I am an American.
I oppose America's corrupt and dysfunctional justice system that leads to the world's highest incarceration rate and the common incarceration of innocent people.
I also oppose China's use of incarceration to suppress political dissent.
I have every right to criticize both and do so without hypocrisy.
Re: Look at yourself America (Score:2)
Prisons should not be a profit center for private companies. And only those who are a direct threat to peoples safety need to be locked in a cage. Put the rest on house arrest with monitoring.
China is using these prisons to make them work unpaid in factories. It is how they get around the UN slavery policies. They claim slavery is outlawed. But like our chain gangs in the 30s it was just a way to keep certain people enslaved for government work.
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I have every right to criticize both and do so without hypocrisy.
But only one we can make disappear with the power of our vote, should we ever decide to use it, together, united...
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Nice sentiment, though we appear more untied than united.
Re: Look at yourself America (Score:3, Insightful)
Its my understanding they were not muslim when they got imprisoned. Religions give people something to talk to in isolation. So it makes sense that there would be a lot of religious converts in prison. They were not imprisoned for being muslim. Most people subscribe to leaving everyone else alone as long as they are left alone. The rest become cops and politicians ;-)
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I agree w/ ShanghaiBill...but, yes, this was absolutely my first thought.
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American muslims are predominantly black
Which shit pile did you pull that from? Have you never been to Dearborn?
Re: Look at yourself America (Score:2, Insightful)
Stop using that word. Fuck you millennials are dumb. Stop excusing hypocrisy and find a better way to win a debate. Goddamn your whole millennial gene pool needs a massive dose of chlorine. Instead just say you are opposed to the abuses here just as much. There is no shame in standing up against a wrong that your own side commits.
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Since I don't use drugs, I would be released as soon as they tested the white powder in my backpack and found out it was baking soda.
*Tsk tsk tsk* Bill, Bill, Bill, I thought you were smarter than that! They'd say it was cocaine regardless of it even being in an unopened box of good-old Arm and Hammer, and throw you into a work camp until you die! Didn't you even bother reading the memo? You're an American, they'll make an example of you, about how the West is so corrupt and lawless and degenerate! Then when they either work you to death or kill you outright, they'll claim you died attempting to escape and refuse to even return the body
Re: Look at yourself America (Score:4, Informative)
China's legal system is very different from America's.
America has an adversarial system based on English common law. The prosecutor's job is to get convictions.
China has a non-adversarial system similar to that of France. The focus is not on "winning convictions" but on determining the truth.
China sends way fewer people to prison and likely way fewer innocent people since there are no plea deals and far fewer incentives to inflate charges and falsify evidence.
On the other hand, Chinese courts are not independent of political interference.
So a common criminal is going to be treated more fairly in China, but someone charged with a political crime will be treated much less fairly.
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To be fair, it is perfectly possible to have arrest quotas and adversary state attorneys under a civil law system - Russia is one example. It is still better than a common law system, though.
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or DAs wanting to prove themselves
That's not a thing in a lot of the west.
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either.
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Best way to out a shill is to grill him on Chinese history, especially the June 4th 1989 mass slaughter.
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What are the stats then? I know those of the UK - the Muslim demographic in prison is way higher than the Muslim demographic in the wider population.
Muslims make up 5% (at best) of the population in the UK, but 20% of the prison inmates are Muslims.
Re:These are delusion camps (Score:5, Informative)
It has nothing to do with Muslims
It is not about Islam but about separatism.
China has 50 million Muslims. There are mosques in every major city. Most Muslims are thoroughly integrated into Chinese society.
My sister-in-law (wife's brother's wife) is a Muslim Hui from Gansu. She speaks only Mandarin and considers herself Chinese. That is typical of most Chinese Muslims.
The Uyghurs are being targeted because they want independence and resist Sinification.
Re: These are delusion camps (Score:2, Troll)
Its not even about that as much as it is about creating slavery while still claiming slavery illegal. The US did that shit in the 1930s. Call it what it is, tow the line or make cheap chinese shit for 14hrs a day unpaid, in horrible working conditions.
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you seem to be under the impression that the US stopped doing this instead of greatly expanding it
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Interesting to note how ShanghaiBill has subtly justified the genocide of a race because of whatever made-up reason, for which he offers no proof. It's the same age old argument used in any race war, that this is happening because they want x or y or z.
Perhaps we aught to round-up those separatists who create China Towns, or Asians who don't integrate, or the Jews who have their own schools, and follow their own laws in Western nations, or the Hispanics for speaking their own language and creating their own
Re:Let's have some Mad Lib fun! (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you understand that there is a long history in the world of putting political dissidents and other 'undesirables' into mental institutions?
Do you understand that there is a difference between saying "X is happening" and saying "I approve of X"?
I did not state an opinion. I stated facts.
You don't seem to actually disagree with anything I said, only with what you imagine that I meant.
I have been to Urumqi (albeit 18 years ago). I have Uyghur friends. I have met Rebiya Kadeer.
I don't agree in any way with what is happening in Xinjiang. But it is a lot more complex than "China is locking up Muslims".
Re: Let's have some Mad Lib fun! (Score:2)
Re:These are delusion camps (Score:5, Informative)
this really is just about one thing. That's Uyghurs look differently enough
No, this is not about the way they look.
If you go to the Muji Valley south of the Tamarin Basin, you will see beautiful blonde Tajik girls that look more Norwegian than Chinese.
Yet no one bothers the Tajiks because they are not separatists. Perhaps that is because the standard of living in China is four times higher than Tajikistan, but nonetheless the Tajiks of Xinjiang are content with being Chinese and live in peace despite looking much less like Han Chinese than the Uyghurs do.
Content with being Chinese (Score:3)
So to be Chinese, a person has to submit to the CCP? That's the implication of your statement. I'd wager there are millions of Chinese people who would disagree with that sentiment and a lot of non-Chinese people who should be very afraid if that is the common zeitgeist in China. It shouldn't surprise anyone that that is what the CCP believes.
The Han Chinese are content with breeding out the other 'Chinese'. 90% and growing, how does that happen? Ask the Chinese.
Re:These are delusion camps (Score:4, Interesting)
"But it is totally unrealistic. There is absolutely no way that China is going to give the Uyghurs independence."
Based on these actions you are probably right.
There was a point when the same was said about civil rights for blacks in the South of the United States. The civil war which gave independence was different, that was largely the dominate white population fighting another segment of the same, there were some black involved just for the nitpicker who loves to interject but not enough to change the essential truth of being a bunch of former Europeans fighting other former Europeans. A religious leader rose up and United those people, they stood up and were disruptive but also peaceful. You'd knock them down for disobeying and they would get back up and let you do it again, and again, and again until you broke your own heart looking down not into their eyes but into your own.
They won. Now despite propaganda trying to make it seem otherwise (no small part of it coming from China stirring the pot), our disputes today are about statistically measurable remaining remnants of racism, attempts to redefine the word and build ever more complex models to find it, etc etc. Something similar happened in India, where a man starved himself in a very public way until freedom was obtained.
What these cases have in common is an assumption that there are limits to human ability to suspend disbelief. Nobody likes thinking they are the truly evil one in their heart, they always rationalize what they do. In some manner they've told themselves the narrative of a greater need, defined "us" vs "them" in some way to abstract the people they hurt into dehumanized objects or animals. If I convince you that there is a red team and blue team and you should identify with the red team, suddenly the great red team poets accomplishments are partially yours and proof of you and red teams greatness and the blue team member who hurt your sister, his actions tell you how people on the blue team really are! But you never wrote a poem and no other member of the blue team actually harmed your sister. It does not appear as if the government of China has a threshold where they might start seeing the population as humans rather than animals.
It is not a matter of Uyghurs and Chinese. It is people and more people. As a person do you think it should be allowed to imprison, torture, and enslave people in order to retain authority to tell them how to live, think, and yes control of their resources? If not you should help them. If you do not, then who will help you when some other people make up a justification for doing these things to you?
Re:I will scream "Guantanamo" (Score:5, Insightful)
Can we please compare China's facilities to Guantanamo...
No, because that is a stupid comparison.
The inmates at Guantanamo were combatants. They were presumed guilty of specific individual crimes.
They were not targeted because of their ethnicity, culture, or religion but because of their actions.
They numbered in the hundreds, not in the millions.
There are many problems and injustices with the way America handled prisoners at Guantanamo. But that does not make it comparable to what is happening in Xinjiang.
Re:I will scream "Guantanamo" (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually no, many of them have just been kidnapped and persumed guilty because, for example, they wore a casio watch.
Guantanamo is, in some ways, worse because the USA used to kidnap people way outside of their jurisdiction.
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Hmm, hadn't heard about this, so I checked it out. I found ""Approximately one-third of the JTF-GTMO detainees that were captured with these models of watches have known connections to explosives, either having attended explosives training, having association with a facility where IEDs were made or where explosives training was given, or having association with a person identified as an explosives expert.""
I can't judge about the other two thirds of the captives that have the watch. Wrong place at the wrong
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https://www.nytimes.com/2012/0... [nytimes.com]
Wrong place at the wrong time indeed.
Re:I will scream "Guantanamo" (Score:4, Informative)
Garbage?
CIA had torture sites in Poland and Romania and they have kidnapped them. Unfortunately people like yourself get so wet about the US military, they would gladly give a blowjob to the first soldier they see.
Re:I will scream "Guantanamo" (Score:4, Interesting)
There are many problems and injustices with the way America handled prisoners at Guantanamo. But that does not make it comparable to what is happening in Xinjiang.
Like:
Having punishment (e.g. water boarding), meted to them extrajudicially...
A good fraction of them had nothing to do with the war...they were simply picked up...just because...
Even then, 1 iota of injustice should never be tolerated...
Moral of what I am saying is this: Do not listen to too much propaganda...Remember Sadam's WMDs? One high ranking Army fella even showed us "satellite images" of WMD facilities. The country of Iraq is still paying for the ills of my government to this day. Not to mention the thousands that were killed!!
Me too (Score:2)
Can we please compare China's facilities to Guantanamo...
No, because that is a stupid comparison.
The inmates at Guantanamo were combatants. They were presumed guilty of specific individual crimes.
They were not targeted because of their ethnicity, culture, or religion but because of their actions.
They numbered in the hundreds, not in the millions.
There are many problems and injustices with the way America handled prisoners at Guantanamo. But that does not make it comparable to what is happening in Xinjiang.
And they had their day in a court decided by an impartial judge
And they were able to examine and dispute the evidence presented against them
And they had the benefit of legal counsel
And their crimes were against specific statutes with recommended punishments
And they have the right to appeal
The prisoners at Guantanamo have all of that, right? America isn't any sort of unjust tyrannical empire!
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"You can't handle the truth!"
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The inmates at Guantanamo were combatants.
What evidence have you seen to draw this conclusion?
Combatants picked up on a battlefield (Score:2)
China has secretly built scores of massive new prison and internment camps in the past three years...
Can we please compare China's facilities to Guantanamo...
Sure, the people in Guantanamo were combatants picked up on a battlefield, unlike those in the Chinese camps.
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....Sure, the people in Guantanamo were combatants picked up on a battlefield...
Depends on what you call the battlefield...
In China's case, they will tell you that the whole region *is* the battlefield. Those folks were picked up from this region.
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Right, imprisoning enemy Taliban caught on the battlefield are same as concentration camps for ethic group.
You are a fucking moron.
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The problem with fucking morons is that they create moron children.
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Right, imprisoning enemy Taliban caught on the battlefield are same as concentration camps for ethic group.
You are a fucking moron.
Unlike you, I will be civil here. In both cases justice was meted extrajudicially - outside the law. You should acknowledge this at least.
Torture happened (and is likely still going on) - admittedly by senior US army officers. Wrong in both cases. Admit this.
Re: I will scream "Guantanamo" (Score:3)
A not insignificant amount of prisoners in Gitmo werent picked up on any battlefield
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It depends on what you mean by "Muslim hate"
If you mean people hating Muslims, that comes from a complex mixture of things that Muslims do, and the human tendency towards xenophobia.
If you mean Muslims hating America, that comes from things America does.
Re: The origin of muslim hate (Score:2)
Historically the most Muslim deaths have been the result of Muslim v. Muslim violence especially wars. The USA is a token contributor.
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How is Gitmo relevant, other than to distract from the conversation about an act which is atrocious, but also colossal in scale?
It's a classic whataboutism. It also ignores the fact that the human rights abuses at Guantanamo have also received their share of media scrutiny, in America and around the world. Where's the People's Daily article decrying the abuse of these Chinese citizens?
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Yes, there should. But they would also result in punishment for the USA, which has built concentration camps in the past, and recently (still in use) and will probably build more in the future.