E-scooter Trial Put on Hold in Coventry Five Days After Rollout (bbc.com) 67
A 12-month trial of e-scooters has been paused five days into the scheme due to people riding them on pavements. Coventry City Council has raised safety concerns amid reports they were being used in pedestrianised areas -- against guidelines. From a report: Some residents also complained about them being discarded across the city and people going the wrong way. The authority made the decision to put the trial on hold while it reviews how e-scooters can be used "appropriately." The 200 e-scooters were deployed in Coventry and Birmingham, in the UK's biggest trial of its kind, on Thursday. Sarah Gayton, a campaigner for the National Federation for the Blind, said she is relieved by the council's action but wants the e-scooters to "disappear from the UK." "I was absolutely shocked to see riders going on the pavement, whizzing around, going the wrong way, scooters discarded all over the city centre," she said.
Ticket people who use them in a stupid manner (Score:4, Insightful)
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Easily done (Score:1)
Simpler said than done. Catching people in the act is difficult.
The scooters are remotely monitored and controlled. You could easily determine when a scooter was in a wrong area, via both location and local CCTV monitoring - then remotely disable them, even fine them through the account they used to access the scooter.
Current scooters do not have hooks to where the police could disable, but that would be very easy to add. The scooter companies can already remotely disable any scooter they want.
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The problem is allowing the use of public roads without proper training, and it applies to bicycles too.
To drive a car you need a license, you need registration and insurance for your car etc. In order to get the driving license you need to do a test and prove some basic level of understanding of the road rules, and if you break those rules it's relatively easy for the police to catch you through both automated and manual means. If a vehicle is seen breaking the law on CCTV, then the owner of the vehicle is
Re: Easily done (Score:1)
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A lot of enforcement is done by automated cameras, because its cheaper... But this is not practical with bikes and scooters due to the lack of registration plates. If a cop catches you committing an illegal act sure, but how will that cop know that you were caught doing the same illegal act by another cop the day before?
The covid lockdowns have had a much greater effect on pollution and congestion... The fact is most people don't need to commute to an office to get their work done. The best way to reduce th
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Will they be forced to present a license or some form of identification? How about even a name?
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You don't need a license or even a photo id to rent a scooter. Just a smart phone w/ an app and you're good to go.
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You do need some way to pay for the rental, which is usually likely to be a card registered in your own name.
Re:Ticket people who use them in a stupid manner (Score:4, Interesting)
Even stupid drivers do not abandon their cars on the side of the road.
The problem with renting scooters is that people do not treat them as valuable. The fix is easy. Require a credit card and if the scooter is not returned to a docking/charging station within X hours/days, you get charged the full amount.
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Limes and Birds for example do not have public docking stations, they are picked up nightly and charged. There is just nothing to return them to.
Sure there are laws and regulations about where they should be parked, but regular riders are incentivized to not follow them. You really want to hide the good ones so they are there when you come back to them or simply leave them in places where there might be few passers-by that might take them. The worst thing in the world is stepping outside to need a scooter o
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Limes and Birds for example do not have public docking stations, they are picked up nightly and charged. There is just nothing to return them to.
Sure there are laws and regulations about where they should be parked, but regular riders are incentivized to not follow them. You really want to hide the good ones so they are there when you come back to them or simply leave them in places where there might be few passers-by that might take them. The worst thing in the world is stepping outside to need a scooter only to find there are none available around you.
I've never used one, so I'm wondering - do the people who pick them up to charge them then put them right back where they were? Also, if you try to make them your personal ride by hiding them, that kind of breaks the whole sharing thing. There should be penalties for that or I would expect the business model to fail quickly.
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They started with picking up sometime after midnight, taken to some sort of "garage" for charging (maybe they test them and work on them or something), then in the early am they are taken back out and distributed around the city. Any more I think they get swapped out in place in lieu of making multiple trips.
Not all will get picked up if they are still showing a reasonable charge or if they are left on the fringes.
The app tells you about where they are, so you can't really hide them completely, but a rider
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Actually the things have a battery monitor on board, when it gets below a certain point it phones home. Someone comes and swaps out the battery, and if it's somewhere that it's not likely to be rented soon they'll move it too. They also ping their location back to the mothership at least once a day. An unused one can sit for weeks without needing a charge, but if it's not getting used then it will get moved somewhere else.
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That kind of breaks the whole sharing thing.
When these kids finish with their scooter they share it by dumping it on the pavement for the next person to find.
That's not 'sharing', that's 'littering'.
You can't do that with anything else.
Hey, how about I launch a 'dog poop sharing app'.
I'm not leaving my dog shit on the pavement.
I'm 'sharing it with the community.'
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Even stupid drivers do not abandon their cars on the side of the road.
Of course they do.
Shit, it's enough of an issue that the Government are seeking input on potential additional measures to manage it.
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The link I should have included:
https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk]
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Even stupid drivers do not abandon their cars on the side of the road.
Huh? What are you talking about, there are two "abandoned" Green Wheels cars on the side of the road in my very street. I think the problem is you think everything has a place. Most of these sharing systems do not.
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Cop didn't see it... It never happened.
On the other hand the scooter providers could easily solve the problem of improperly parked scooters. Require them to be left in approved zones or forfeit a substantial deposit to be paid to the locality where the scooter was dumped
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Why would they want to make less money?
Re:Ticket people who use them in a stupid manner (Score:5, Interesting)
I've only ever seen them used on the pavement. The problem is the roads are too dangerous. Bad drivers and potholes all over.
Same with cycling. The rules in the UK are crap and there aren't enough cycle lanes. I don't know why they bothered launching here.
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Here in my city, scooters are only usable on footpaths and bikeways - illegal on roads entirely.
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Any kind of meaningful emergency manoeuvring on a scooter is impossible, they are a stupid mobility device with the worst possible centre of gravity, making emergency turning or breaking impossible, only truly idiotically corrupt government would allow that shite on public roads or footpaths. How much did they get paid on the side for that trial.
Have those fucking things assessed by your road traffic safety departments and listen to the fucking report.
Bike Share Docks Don't Have That Issue (Score:2)
they charge some pretty serious money for bringing it back late or not at all. No GPS, just: did it go back to a dock?
I've had to call them before, when their dock locked it, but didn't say I'd returned it. They sent a person out to verify the bike was there, and that was it.
As for riding in inappropriate places, well, that's a different sort of issue. Bicycle, scooter, and pedestrian traffic in a city of a half million people all mixed hasn't been an issue for me. (/anecdote, not datum)
Education and Enforcement (Score:2)
People that think they are immune to the rules of the road tend to disregard those rules for their own convenience. After all, they see themselves as "pedestrians" and not vehicles. This means that directional signs (and even Stop signs0 are "optional" of unenforceable on them.
We see a lot of that behaviour in southern Ontario.
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At least there's a good chance those people are sorry for doing it, eh?
Rest of the world agrees and ignores (Score:3)
Nowhere in the world have e-scooter uses adhered to any rules.
Why would Coventry City believe it is different than all other places on the planet?
Also, I don't think it is a problem. At least not in the long run. We should get wider pedestrian streets in all places, we should reduce the speed of car traffic in cities (so that street crossings for everybody would be safer). In the end, different types of traffic would be much more similar than they are now - cars will be slower, "assisted pedestrians" will be faster. But forcing people to follow the pre-scooter-era rules of traffic is NOT the way to go.
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Coventry City is the name of a football (probably "soccer" to you) club. The city of Coventry is normally just called "Coventry"
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or 'Cov' or 'that concrete shithole' or 'the arse end of Birmingham'.
Disclosure: used to live in the officially nice bit of Cov and it was a shithole.
Re:Rest of the world agrees and ignores (Score:4, Interesting)
Nowhere in the world have e-scooter uses adhered to any rules.
That's a much better argument for banning e-scooters than it is for changing the rules, widening all the streets, and forcing commuters in cars to go slower than dictated by safety. Your "solution" punishes drivers for using the existing infrastructure as it was designed to be used. If the introduction of scooters causes a previously-safe environment to become hazardous, the solution is obvious.
Re:Rest of the world agrees and ignores (Score:5, Insightful)
It's baffling that the city didn't anticipate this problem. Did they not even bother googling how other cities have found e-scooter rentals working? Did they not reach out to other cities and ask? Have they never been to a city with e-scooter rentals? It's baffling that anyone could be so clueless as to be surprised. Yet here we are....
"I was absolutely shocked to see riders going on the pavement, whizzing around, going the wrong way, scooters discarded all over the city centre," she said.
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That's a much better argument for banning e-scooters than it is for changing the rules, widening all the streets, and forcing commuters in cars to go slower than dictated by safety. Your "solution" punishes drivers for using the existing infrastructure as it was designed to be used. If the introduction of scooters causes a previously-safe environment to become hazardous, the solution is obvious.
No mod points today, but that was my thought exactly.
Roads are for cars. Deal with it.
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Roads are for cars. Deal with it.
Roads are for people.
If people choose scooters as their way of transport, then roads will change to accommodate this.
The other people (currently) in cars won't like this, but if their friends and children will also choose scooters, then eventually they will.
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Good luck with that. Try not to stain the pavement.
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The cities of the world are changing to accommodate less cars and more light traffic. The pandemic has accelerated this change - to an order or magnitude.
Of course, the 3rd world countries have a headstart to US because they have less cars (per person) to start with. Nobody in Mumbay or Addiss Abeba would agree with the statement "roads are for commuting" - this would be both impossible and unimaginable.
Good luck with that. Try not to stain the pavement.
Yes, people will die in the process.
But the current city planning paradigm is not sustainable either.
Good
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The death of the planet is highly overstated. 100 years from now life will better to the same degree as today is to the 1920s. By all measures the human condition globally continues to improve - less hunger, less poverty, better health, education, and higher standards of living. Climate completely notwithstanding. I'm not expecting that to change anytime soon.
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Nowhere in the world have e-scooter uses adhered to any rules
In my experience, the e-scooter users in Singapore obey the rules. But they're still dangerous in Singapore because the bikes are basically 100% silent. Very easy for pedestrians to get hit from behind.
Sidewalk Riding (Score:3, Informative)
Scooters are hard on both the street and the sidewalk...
On the street you have to worry about cars going by you at a faster clip; if the driver is not paying attention, getting hit by a car will really mess you up, especially when the cars are moving at serious speed (over twice the speed the scooter is moving).
Sidewalks avoid the car accident issue, but they are often not smooth or maintained as well as streets, plus you have to worry about avoiding obstacles (people, pets, etc.).
When I have the option, I prefer the sidewalk. I just feel safer there from self injury even though I'm at higher risk of causing injury to others who are not expecting scooters on the sidewalk.
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I don't think riding on the sidewalks isn't too bad as long as you're courteous. Don't blow by people at full speed. Ease off, roll by at a casual jogging pace (about 5 mph), then accelerate back up. If the sidewalks are too busy to do that, then it's time to get in the street.
Re:Sidewalk Riding (Score:5, Insightful)
Sidewalks avoid the car accident issue, but they are often not smooth or maintained as well as streets, plus you have to worry about avoiding obstacles (people, pets, etc.).
I love how you consider pedestrians as "obstacles". I'm sure motorists have the same opinion of you.
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" I'm sure motorists have the same opinion of you."
I'm sure the motorists have no opinion of the scooters at all, as they don't even notice that the scooters are there.
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In an area that I walk in there are often E-scooters left lying right in the middle of the sidewalk and completely blocking the sidewalk. Being a good citizen, I tend to pick up and discard trash when I see it in public places. Fortunately, in this area, there is often (well, twice a week) a dumpster waiting to be picked up nearby and it turns out that E-scooters fit very nicely in them. I don't know if the GPS unit/battery survives the compaction process but if they often do I wonder how many scooters Lime
Couldn't have foreseen any of this (Score:2)
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You don't understand how security cameras are used then. No one is watching 99.many-9s percent of the installed cameras, their function is forensics, looking up information after the fact. Sure, there are a few installations out there with a wall full of video screens displaying scores of cameras like you see on television, but they're actually useless. Test show that one person can watch as many as a dozen camera for a maximum of 20 minutes, after that their brain is mush and Bigfoot can dance a jig on
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24 x 7 = 247 hours in a week
247 / 40 = 6.175 shifts per week
6.175 x 200 = 1235
So you are claiming that Coventry has 1235 people who do nothing but watch a camera all day? Let's be generous and pretend that they can each watch 5 cameras simultaneously during their entire shift (they really can't, but we'll pretend)..
1235 / 5 = 247
I wonder what the citizens of Coventry would think about that kind of expense of their tax dollars?
I work in physical security, and over the last 15 years have worked on 4 of the 5
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Adpro? Gag. Whatever, at least it was probably cheap.
Our diligent officers can pick up incidents and arrange for the blue light services to attend the incident.
On their screens they have a few of the locations most likely to actually have an "incident". The other 190+ cameras are only for forensics. Even on those cameras they're not going to be catching scooters running the light, an event like that is too small and routine to be noticed 90% of the time (and in most cases they don't have a view of the traffic signal anyway). It's real life, not 'Person of Interest'.
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As a condition of allowing the private companies to use public resources for business gain, the private companies could be required to put highly visible unique identifiers on the scooter/bike that would be visible to cameras and to, upon request by law enforcement, reveal the identity of the individual who was using the device at any particular time. The business could also be required to verify the identity of all of their renters and pay a fine/tax every time they can't produce a valid identity (current
People will learn (Score:3)
I've watched the evolution of scooters in my nearby metropolis. A year ago, e-(scooters, skateboards, bikes, hoverboards, onewheels) were zipping diagonally across intersections regularly. Now I see people mostly using them in a sane fashion: stopping at lights if they are in the street, stopping at crosswals if they are using the sidewalk. This is a city with fairly narrow sidewalks and roads, and I don't mind them using both depending on the situation. But not zipping back and forth popping curbs like Tony Hawk on coke. I don't go down there often any more, only every few months, so the change is obvious and drastic when I see it. I think the craziness just needs to get out of everyone's system.
It's like, the first time someone gets a giant robot fist grafted onto their body or gets a super power: you just know they are gonna punch a hole in a building or level a city block, just to see it happen. There's just no resisting that urge! But after everybody else does it a few times, and after they get trapped under the fallen debris for a few hours, they will calm down and come to your senses and everyone can get along and use the new power sensibly.
Re:People will learn (Score:4, Funny)
I knew something was off when I woke up this morning, as if I wasn't in my own parallel universe anymore.
P.S.: do you have real cute sexy cat-girls in this universe too?
Government missing the point (Score:2)
Seems to me that government is missing the point of the device. People don't want to be stuck in traffic or pay the fees to government for the privilege of doing so. They don't want to be stuck on mass transit that doesn't go where they want when they want and costs too much. And they sure as hell don't want to walk. The scooter allowed a lot more freedom until government came along and said "No, you can't do that."
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Private scooters used by their owner is one thing. Rental scooters that are abandoned all over the place is something completely different. Institute the same exorbitant fine as a car get for any scooter/bike whose GPS shows it to be stopped for more than 5 minutes in a non-approved location.
In one USA city, a business started impounding scooters illegally parked in front of a business when the business contracted their services - they charged the scooter companies similarly to car impounds which are exce
Death or no scooter? (Score:2)
Ride on the pavement (sidewalk to you Americans) - Have scooter's banned.
Ride on the road - Die under the wheels of a large truck.
Tough choice.
E-Scooter Rider Training (Score:2)
The scooter network operator needs to better supervise the operation of their vehicles. What trail of destruction of bent feelings does a given rider leave behind?
A safety course (online or in person) could be required before first ride or after a police summons or internal flagging for vehicle damage or unsafe operation.
The scooter network operator could temporarily (suspend) or permantly (ban) a riders that refuse to comply.
oh c'mooon (Score:2)
Denmark (Score:1)
In Denmark the rental companies in Aarhus were forced to implement 5km/h speed lock on pedestrian-only streets. That works wonders for it.
And the police has been fining people, and making sure if was reported in the papers / news.
It is new tech, people need to learn how to use it, and they need help.
Who would have thought? (Score:2)
Illegal (Score:2)
city tax before starting trials (Score:2)