California To Ban New Gas, Diesel Vehicle Sales By 2035 (cnet.com) 294
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNET: Gavin Newsom has just announced plans to abolish the internal combustion engine by 2035. In an executive order announced Wednesday, Newsom said sales of internal-combustion passenger vehicles and light trucks would be banned by 2035. Instead of gas and diesel vehicles, the mandate calls for the sale of zero-emission vehicles. Medium- and heavy-duty trucks will be given an extra decade to comply. "This is the most impactful step our state can take to fight climate change," Newsom said. "Our cars shouldn't make wildfires worse -- and create more days filled with smoky air. Cars shouldn't melt glaciers or raise sea levels threatening our cherished beaches and coastlines."
Newsom also called on the state Legislature to ban the controversial oil extraction method known as fracking, "setting up what could be a contentious political fight when lawmakers reconvene in Sacramento next year," reports The Los Angeles Times.
Newsom also called on the state Legislature to ban the controversial oil extraction method known as fracking, "setting up what could be a contentious political fight when lawmakers reconvene in Sacramento next year," reports The Los Angeles Times.
How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:5, Insightful)
There isn't one, nor will there be one.
Even if the power were available, nearly half of Californians live in rentals, many without any enclosed parking. No apartment complex is going to install charging stations for each apartment, especially if there's no off street parking whatsoever, which is often the case. I live in a fairly small apartment complex of less than 200 units, and it would cost something like a million dollars to install the charging stations. The rent increase would leave pretty much everyone living there homeless, living in the cars they're not allowed to own any more.
There's no intention for this to be a viable plan for most of the population. I am increasingly of the opinion that the specific, conscious plan of the leadership of the Democratic Party that controls the state is to literally drive the middle class out of the state, and reserve it solely for the obscenely wealthy and their indentured servants.
It will not work out well for them in the long run. Gray Davis got handed his sorry ass when he messed with Californians' cars.
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:5, Funny)
" No apartment complex is going to install charging stations for each apartment"
That's nothing another meaningless Executive Order from a powerless governor won't fix! Problem solved!
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Who are the idiots who marked the Parent comment as Flamebait? It should be either Insightful or Ironic.
Just more climate denier propaganda (Score:4, Informative)
Who are the idiots who marked the Parent comment as Flamebait? It should be either Insightful or Ironic.
It was properly marked are flamebait as it was climate denier propaganda. Anything that opposes a "green" plan is just climate denier propaganda regardless of how one dresses it up with facts and logic and critical thinking and stuff. One has to focus on the morality of the plan not its likelihood of producing a positive outcome. Anything else is immoral.
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no need for a charging station for each apartment in an apartment complex. An electric vehicle can be charged in a couple of hours on a 220V charger. A 200-unit apartment complex could probably get by with about five charging stations, maybe less. In a pinch, one can charge at a commercial charging station.
I live in a northern climate in a very rural area and live off-grid. I thought an electric vehicle was off the table until I realized that my solar-electric system's batteries are generally fully charged by noon on a sunny day. The excess can charge a vehicle in a couple of days. A single charge should cover my commuting for a week, and I live ten minutes out of town. If we don't get enough sunlight to keep the vehicle's batteries topped up, there is a charging station at our local farm store. (Nearly fell out my chair when I learned that.)
My context is way less amenable to an electric vehicle than a Californian apartment dweller's, and it is still very practical. By 2035 it won't be any trouble at all.
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no need for a charging station for each apartment in an apartment complex. An electric vehicle can be charged in a couple of hours on a 220V charger. A 200-unit apartment complex could probably get by with about five charging stations, maybe less.
”Could be” is a rather dangerous phrase when it comes to things people share at apartments.
There’s a reason why the issue of people removing other people’s laundry from the washer or dryer is a common trope in fiction set in apartments that share washers and dryers. And while management could threaten to tow the vehicle if the owner doesn’t return, they would likely be reluctant to do so and it takes effort to enforce.
I don’t think the problem is insurmountable, but I do think it will take work to control for the human equation.
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:4, Interesting)
I don’t think the problem is insurmountable, but I do think it will take work to control for the human equation.
It's not insurmountable. But it is insurmountable in 15 years.
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It will never be surmounted unless people actually push for it to happen. CA is pushing for it to happen. Otherwise fossil fuels with their unpriced externalities will continue to reign supreme until it's too late. Autos today are not a free market because ICE cars are being subsidized heavily by the public cost of pollution and CO2 emission. The govt must step in to address this unfair subsidy.
And it's not like gas cars will disappear in 15 years. You can still buy them used. And you can probably buy them
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That is my position.. I mean we are talking 15 years down the road.. not "tomorrow' Anything is possible if people are motivated to DO it.. otherwise, everything is impossible. And keep in mind, this doesn't say "no combustion cars on the road".. it just says "NEW" vehicle sales must be alternative fuel.. (ie: non-gas).. which may be hydrogen, solar, electric, bio fuels, etc.. though being realistic, electric/hydrogen are the two most likely for most consumers.
Realistically it would take about 20-25 years
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Seems unlikely.
my math, 1 million / 200 units / 5 years / 12 months, then add 25% profit.
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:5, Interesting)
Wrong premise.
Rent is so HIGH that an extra $100/month will break people.
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:5, Interesting)
There is no need for a charging station for each apartment in an apartment complex. An electric vehicle can be charged in a couple of hours on a 220V charger. A 200-unit apartment complex could probably get by with about five charging stations, maybe less.
Unless, of course, one lives in the real world, where pretty much everybody gets home at the same time of day, and needs to charge at the same time, because it will take most of the night to charge up for the next day's average hour long commute. You'll get, with the best (and most expensive) charging stations about 2, maybe 3 charges per night. That's 15 cars out of 200 apartments (which have an average of close to 2 people in each unit, because not many people can afford to live alone) that can get to work the next day.
Yeah, good luck with the peasants with pitchforks and torches who will dispute your fantasy world.
In a pinch, one can charge at a commercial charging station.
Somebody still has to pay for about as many charging stations as there are cars, and consolidated charging stations - like a gas station - will require power grids in the tens of megawatts each, for which the infrastructure does not exist and will cost many, many billions of dollars and decades to build (involving tearing up pretty much every major street in the state for years).
I live in a northern climate in a very rural area and live off-grid.
Most Californians don't. They live in one of several large metropolitan areas, work an average of an hour away, and literally cannot hold down a job without a car to drive every day.
So get back to us when you have some vague clue what you're talking about. I'm not holding my breath because blue's not my color.
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The current draw is not much. Your humble 120V domestic outlet can dish out 25000 miles a year operating 24/7. If your car is parked near a 120 V outlet half the time, you can soak up 12500 miles from it. The 240V 20 amp plug dishes out 10 miles an
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:5, Insightful)
Where will that electricity infrastructure come from in 15 years? CA is having rolling blackouts, right now, because they don't have enough electricity to support its population in a mild climate. Good luck building any new generating plants, or heaven forbid, new nuclear plant in the next 15 years, much less the number needed to charge every single vehicle in the state every day.
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:4, Insightful)
CA is having rolling blackouts, right now, because they don't have enough electricity to support its population in a mild climate.
No, California is having rolling blackouts right now because they are having to temporarily shut down a lot of overhead distribution lines because of fire danger during the hottest weeks of the year, with temperatures soaring to well over 100 degrees, compared with seasonal norms of 70 or 80.
That is, in fact, a problem that they will have to fix, but it isn't a supply problem. It's a "trench and install underground high voltage cables" problem and/or an "irrigate the grass under the high tension lines" problem.
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's ridiculous.
The PG&E PSPS (Public Safety Power Shutoffs) have nothing to do with temperature, but with wind events. And the blackouts during the recent heat wave had EVERYTHING to do with insufficient generating capacity for the demand. And since when is '70 or 80' a seasonal norm? The Central Valley is over 100 F on many summer days, and that's been true for centuries.
As for burying the high voltage cables, you do realize that the Coast Range and the Sierras are made out of GRANITE, right? Not grassy slopes, but solid rock. Besides being an insanely stupid idea for technical reasons, the costs of burying all of California's high-voltage transmission lines would make the billions spent on the high-speed rail boondoggle look like pocket change.
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That's not really true. The amount of wind only matters significantly when vegetation is dry, which is why you typically only see shutdowns in drier parts of the year, when fire risk is high, even though they can have high winds at any time. This isn't strictly true, but it tends to be true.
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On what planet? Are you breaking the sound barrier on your commute or something? How are you burning so much energy every day that you have to charge for an entire night to replace it? And even if you were, why aren't you installing more powerful chargers?
Exactly what is going on in this Bizarro World of yours?
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:4, Informative)
If that's an hour each way, and if it doesn't involve traffic, then a Model X on a 30-amp circuit actually would take almost all night to add 130 miles of range at 14 miles per hour. However, I'm guessing that was intended to be about Bay Area commutes that take one hour for the round trip, which means 15 miles each way plus two extra miles for air conditioning, for a total of 34 miles of range, which in a Model 3 on a 30-amp circuit at 22 miles per hour, takes about 90 minutes. Or at 4 miles per hour on a 110V circuit, it takes all night....
That said, the GP is still correct, at least in practice, that you'll never get by with one charger per 40 cars, or even within an order of magnitude of that, even with DC fast charging, because nobody is going to want to wake up at 3:00 in the morning when the charge minder app tells them that the previous car has finished charging so that they can unplug somebody else's car and charge their own. Doing that with normal AC charging is hopelessly infeasible.
In practice, you can only realistically plug your car in to charge during a narrow window from whenever you get home (let's say 6 P.M.) to when you go to sleep (let's say midnight). And you can safely assume that at 220V/30A, you're gaining anywhere from 14–22 miles for every hour of charge. So if we assume that folks need to be able to handle a 50-mile commute, you're talking about three or four hours of charging per night. Thus, if we assume people get home at 6:00 in the evening, you cannot practically charge more than two cars per night per plug, at most, because the third car would need to start charging well after midnight.
And even if you assume that people have a shorter commute (and arbitrarily limit charging to a shorter amount of time (say two hours) to force people with a longer commute to mostly use DCFC elsewhere), you still have the problem of convincing people to vacate their parking spot when they are done charging. Most apartments don't just have extra parking places that they can dedicate to charging, and a charger's cord will typically reach at most two parking places usefully, so that means you would have to go down to the lot and wait for the next person who is waiting to charge to arrive so that you can take that person's parking place. This really doesn't work in practice.
There are, of course, ways to work around those problems, such as requiring everyone to use a valet service with a nighttime parking attendant who can move cars around throughout the night, but it's really not very practical to have more than two cars per outlet/charge handle, and even in the best case, you're not going to get much above three or four cars per plug per night. You're better off just wiring a 110V/20A circuit to every car, and not worrying about it. That gives you more power power per night that you would get with a 220V/30A charger shared two ways, because you'd be able to charge for 14 hours per night instead of 3, and it costs a whole lot less.
Of course, if you can give every car its own 220V/30A circuit, even better, but that isn't always practical.
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it will take most of the night to charge up for the next day's average hour long commute.
The average California commute distance is 40 miles. You might notice that they don't rate these cars in hours per charge but in miles per charge. So you're saying you must top off your car after going only 40 miles?
Even if we consider time, are you telling me that a Tesla Model 3 can only be driven for 2 hours before needing a charge?
At the very least, if you're that insecure that you need to make sure that your car has a complete charge every morning before you go to work, you'll find it a nuisance, I a
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You can see what they're trying to achieve, but banning IC cars is just a simplistic, short sighted and not terribly effective method to try and achieve that...
Instead of trying to force people to buy electric cars, make people want to buy electric cars. If an electric car suits your usage patterns and ability to charge it, people will actually choose it over a gas car. For those who have somewhere to charge it at home, an electric car already makes sense for commuting and domestic shopping trips etc.
Reduce
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There is no need for a charging station for each apartment in an apartment complex.
Yes there is. People aren't going to get up at 3AM to swap chargers.
Normal chargers (not superchargers) don't cost much. Just put one next to each parking space.
An electric vehicle can be charged in a couple of hours on a 220V charger.
The average commute is 30 miles round-trip. At 0.3 kwh per mile, that is 10 kwh.
A 220v 30 amp plug can deliver 10 kwh in 90 minutes.
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If one charging station can serve 10 cars per day, then a 200 unit apartment might need 20-40 charging stations. How do you get $1 million from that?
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I think they should charge different prices at different times of day, the same way a restaurant charges less at lunch and more at dinner in order to smooth out the flow of customers throughout the day. So if I can afford to charge during prime charging hours, I'll charge then, and if I can't afford it, I'll charge at 2am when the rates are low.
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Well, I'm 100% sure that battery capacity in a decade in a half will be the same as it is today. Only a fool would think that it might be massively increased. I mean, battery capacity today is the same as it was 15 years ago. It hasn't changed at all. And nobody is even researching that, so it's not like it could possibly change in the next decade or two.
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I actually decided to go see what Tesla has done in half this time with their battery tech instead of just being sarcastic. In part I realized while I was laughing at the capacity, I was ignoring the efficiency gains, which might be significant.
In 2012, the EPA range for the 60 kWh battery pack model was 208 mi (335 km)[118] and the 85 kWh battery was 265 miles (426 km). (Model S)
2020 Model 3 numbers for the 75 kWh LR battery: 325 miles (523 km) combined.
So taking the average of the two 2012 Model S batteri
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In what fantasy world will one charging station serve 10 cars per day even if their owners pay attention to when they should go move it to let someone else take their turn? 2 or 3 at best.
Plus, of course, even 40 charging stations, at 150 kw each, that's a 6 megawatts circuit. That means you're tearing up every street between every apartment and the nearest substation that can feed that much. The neighborhood I live in would require something on the order of 100 mw to feed all the apartments - and that's as
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Read the story. That is a 50kw+30kw public unit charging tiny Tata and other similar cars available on Indian market. It charges two cars per station at a time, charge time of 15 cars assumes perfect rotation time (which is why these are public stations and not residential). Batteries in these cars hold a small fraction of energy of what a typical Tesla's battery holds.
To put it in American terms, this is you thinking that because Tesla supercharger can charge a car in about 30 minutes, you can do 40-48 car
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In the one where 15-18 cars per day [rushlane.com] is already achievable, so I said 10 cars per day to be conservative.
Not even close. You're comparing a 24-hour public charging station to an apartment complex. A charger at an apartment complex is only going to get used between about 6 P.M. and midnight, and between about 6 A.M. and 8 A..M., at most. So divide that 15 by three, and you're down to 5 cars per day. At most. If people move their cars quickly and charge during the hours before work. Without that, you're down to three cars per day, not counting weekends.
And to get that rate, you have to have DC fast chargin
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No apartment complex is going to install charging stations for each apartment, especially if there's no off street parking whatsoever, which is often the case. I live in a fairly small apartment complex of less than 200 units, and it would cost something like a million dollars to install the charging stations. The rent increase would leave pretty much everyone living there homeless, living in the cars they're not allowed to own any more.
That's what the LOANS are for.
You do realize that, should your idea be the only possible plan (which it is not), it would literally give all landlords an equivalent of a free gas station - and you'd be paying for it?
Not through increases in rent mind you, but through the cost of electricity you'd be spending to "fill up your tank".
I.e. You'd be no worse off than paying for gas now - only with 15 years to go, a 2035 electric car will probably be at least 90% solar powered by then. [global.toyota]
Re:How Will the Electrical Power Grid be Upgraded? (Score:5, Interesting)
It will happen if there is demand. Its going to happen sooner than you imagine.
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Even if the power were available, nearly half of Californians live in rentals, many without any enclosed parking. No apartment complex is going to install charging stations for each apartment, especially if there's no off street parking whatsoever, which is often the case.
Well, first, they will if the state mandates it and might even offer to pay for some of it. Heck, a nearby gas station owner just installed some hydrogen pumps--got some money from the state to do it.
Second, in the next 15 years, do you think that somebody might come up with an electric car that doesn't need to be charged every night?
Let's see...the Tesla Model 3 has a range of 250 miles. The average commute distance in California is 40 miles. Figure I might want to go someplace else besides work and bac
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Nowadays in CA the government doesn't see fit to provide enough electricity for the citizens so it institutes power outages. What is Newsom's plan to increase the available power to supply all those additional electric cars?
Details details details.. We don't know, nor do we care. So what if nobody in Cali can buy a new car, you know there will be a PILE of "out of state" registered vehicles hauling the rich and politicians around so they won't care.
The blackouts will continue and get worse until the enough people move out of the state to match supply.. We don't need those people anyway! Forget the tax base.
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You don't even need V2G - you just need smart charging. Modern EVs have hundreds of miles of range. Very few people have hundreds of miles of daily commute.
Indeed, some types of smart charging have no impact on the owner whatsoever - e.g. letting the owner schedule the time at which they want the car to be charged up to a given level, and guaranteeing that it'll be charged up by then, but letting the grid pick out when to do it.
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But distributed battery storage for homes, controlled by the utility using wi-fi can become extremely valuable. In South Australia, Tesla is building a 50,000 residential storage batteries networked to be a "virtual" power plant. It was just 2% complete, just 1000 batteries, when a coal power plant tripped. In the old days, grid would have collapse
Not his problem, like CEO, he will have moved on (Score:4, Insightful)
Nowadays in CA the government doesn't see fit to provide enough electricity for the citizens so it institutes power outages. What is Newsom's plan to increase the available power to supply all those additional electric cars?
His plan is to have moved on to a new position in the federal government by then. Much like the CEOs who manage for quarterly report not the long term since he'll be moving on before things go to hell.
Whatever cluster*ck he leaves behind is not his problem anymore. All he needs today is a nice sounding plan since that is all politicians in California are judged upon, closer*cks are entirely acceptable as long as you intentions were good. He's expecting this to be a nationwide perspective and so far he seems likely to be correct.
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Um, er, y'know, I could have sworn that the State of California DOESN'T OWN THE ELECTRICAL GRID IN CALIFORNIA, that it's owned by PRIVATE COMPANIES.
And obviously, with the governor's bill, the "invisible hand of the free market" will push the electric companies to provide more power.
Right?
Or the state could just take over all the electrical grid of California, kick out the execs, pay state wages as they make the employees government employess, so saving tens of millions, at least, in exec salaries and bonus
Most impactful, lol. (Score:2)
Want to make an impact, ground planes within the state permanently.
Re:Most impactful, lol. (Score:4, Informative)
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This sounds like a dramatic declaration but in reality is not that big a deal.
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The first Tesla was released only 8 years ago in limited numbers. Tesla is on track to deliver something like a half million EVs this year. 8 years ago they were nobody. In another 8 years if they aren't delivering numbers on par with the big automakers, it would be surprising.
I don't get all the disbelief in this post that in a decade and a half a lot can change. Look a half decade ago, and the world was vastly different in terms of renewable energy and BEVs. 5 years ago I wasn't seriously considering a BE
A token gesture. (Score:3)
Itsibitsy bullsh*t like this won't get us anywhere near we need to be headed right now to prevent the global ecological tilt that is happening right now from wiping out most life as we know it. We need to start pricing the eco-balance into every product and service we use. Now. That will bring up meat, traffic (electric or ICE - doesn't matter), and energy to 400% or even 500% in price and finally have us getting sustainable lifestyle and perhaps ready to look for ways to prevent extinction by runaway methane, rising sealevels and mass extinction.
With California looking like Bladerunner 2049 it's staggering to observe this sort of pointless non-sense still being sold as "environmental aware politics". It's 5 past 12 already and people still aren't catching on to what's happening and what needs to be done.
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Itsibitsy bullsh*t like this won't get us anywhere near we need to be headed right now to prevent the global ecological tilt that is happening right now from wiping out most life as we know it. We need to start pricing the eco-balance into every product and service we use. Now. That will bring up meat, traffic (electric or ICE - doesn't matter), and energy to 400% or even 500% in price and finally have us getting sustainable lifestyle and perhaps ready to look for ways to prevent extinction by runaway methane, rising sealevels and mass extinction.
With California looking like Bladerunner 2049 it's staggering to observe this sort of pointless non-sense still being sold as "environmental aware politics". It's 5 past 12 already and people still aren't catching on to what's happening and what needs to be done.
I hope you are smart enough to understand that "itsy bitsy bullshit" represents everything America could possibly do right now to combat this problem.
Now, go badger, bitch, and belittle the rest of the planet if you actually want to get anywhere with this. Californians already don't give a shit. They just act like they do. (Hollywood. Go figure.)
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Realistic? (Score:3)
what about that thriving used electric car market for teens and lower class folks?
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what about that thriving used electric car market for teens and lower class folks?
As the headless head of state of France Queen Marie Antoinette stated:
"Let them ride eScooters!"
Bill Gates piled on with:
"I think 640K eScooters should be enough for anyone's California."
However, back in my day, a passage of teenage was desperately trying to chart a '65 Mercury Monterrey Notchback, while steering with a fifth of Jack, a joint of prairie fire THC-less Mexican weed in your left hand . . . while fingering your girlfriend with your right hand.
. . . and doing a line off the dashboard. A
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Today? Doesn't exist.
In 15 years? With Tesla cranking out a half million cars a year and increasing, it should be massive. And they're seeing a million miles on their battery packs as entirely possible, with something like 80% capacity still.
I'll believe it (Score:2)
when I see it from my ocean front villa set on the Brooklyn bridge in Arizona.
Poor People (Score:2)
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At some critical mass of EV ownership, there will be a point at which either:
A) a fleet with a leased physically changeable battery is introduced (pull up, robot forklifts your battery out, puts a charged one in)
or
B) companies with an incentive to do so decide to pop for pernicious curbside chargers so they can sell electricity direct to consumers.
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I thought this would be the major barrier for me but they're already adding chargers to the parking meters a block away from me. Your dire prediction about this may have overlooked the profitability angle.
Very optimistic. (Score:3)
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Once a long term goal has been set it needs more political capital to reverse it. It doesn't always work but it never works if you don't even try.
Didn't I just see a Amazon pilot on this? (Score:2)
It was more about motorcycles. But it's was about banning gas, people that want to drive themselves for enjoyment instead of automated driving, and finally just banning personal ownership of such vehicles. Calling everyone not of board with the idea selfish.
Doesn't make any sense... (Score:3)
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If someone develops and gasoline engine with no harmful emissions, that'll count, too. FTS:
Instead of gas and diesel vehicles, the mandate calls for the sale of zero-emission vehicles.
So if you have a gasoline engine with zero emissions, you can sell it in California.
Taylor Swift to begin dating me next week (Score:4, Informative)
This is one of those warm and fuzzy announcements that goes absolutely nowhere. Pay it no heed. Electrics are still about $10-$20k more expensive and hybrids around $5-$10k. Anyone who seriously tried to do this would be voted out when people couldn't afford a car to get them to work and CA knows that.
Re: Taylor Swift to begin dating me next week (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the great tragedy of the middle class in a democracy. We have something to lose, and enough of it to invite organized attempts to steal it, but not enough to defend it.
Who knows...maybe this is going to be the last straw that flips Cali back into a red state for a gene
Oh for God's sake (Score:2)
For the record 93% of the protests were peaceful [time.com] and of the 7% were not 5% of that was traced back to out of state (read: right wing) provocateurs.
Cali's not going red. It's making more blue than they've got room for and it's spilling over into neighboring states. That's why Az is about to elect their second Blue Senator. Montana will probably go next just because of their itty bitty population (that still somehow
Re: Oh for God's sake (Score:2)
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>"This is one of those warm and fuzzy announcements that goes absolutely nowhere."
Indeed. It is ridiculous virtue-signaling to the extreme. The market will move to electric ON ITS OWN. It already is, there is more interest than there are cars or infrastructure. Banning ICE won't solve that major problem.
I would love my next car to be electric- but there is currently no model that does what I want at a price I can pay (Tesla S is close, but still too expensive and too "connected"). I AM READY (and ha
I think you're missing a point (Score:2)
It's annoying because he could be helping push the Green New Deal (which would have real ramifications for clean air and the environment) but we get this crap instead.
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>"It's annoying because he could be helping push the Green New Deal (which would have real ramifications for clean air and the environment)"
And destroying the country and the economy in the process... but... details. I guess this action is better than that :) So I will just shut up.
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Anyone who seriously tried to do this would be voted out when people couldn't afford a car to get them to work and CA knows that.
Do people need a new car to get to work?
Assuming this goes forward and is enforced starting in 2035 -- 15 years from now -- there will be tens of millions of ICEVs on the road then, nearly all of which will still be running fine in 2045, and many of which will still be running in 2055... and by then there will also be millions of cheap used EVs around.
It's aggressive, sure, but not crazy.
They can be no innocent reason for this (Score:2, Insightful)
If it's not feasible, the harm will be irreparable.
Re:They can be no innocent reason for this (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: They can be no innocent reason for this (Score:2)
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no, most gas stations can't support electric charging, not at 50KW per "pump"
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Sometimes people benefiting from the status quo will resist riding the gravy train of money. Sometimes, the force of law is needed to give that push. I'll give an example: leaded paint.
Lead has been known to be toxic since the late 19th century. Lead-free alternatives were available since the early 20th century. And yet, it wasn't until 1978 that it was banned in the USA. Despite that ban, and the obvious feasibility of lead-free paints elsewhere, much of the world still uses lead-based paint. India only b
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typo, "resist the gravey train of money coming to an end" is what I meant to write on that first line.
What are they going to do when ... (Score:3)
The electricity gets shut down to prevent fallen power lines from setting off wildfires? Or are they hoping to have that pesky "don't remove highly-flammable underbrush in the right-of-way" problem fixed by then?
What will they prioritize when they have shortages in supply? Will they shut down government office A/C so more people can drive?
Of course, as someone else pointed out, executive orders only mean something as long as the person who signed them is still in office, which is why there is also a call for the CA legislature to pony up and write an actual LAW, that will last until the next legislative session, when the newly-elected people will repeal it.
But it makes a good news story for a few weeks.
Re:What are they going to do when ... (Score:5, Funny)
This [evowners.com].
That will be a non-issue by then. (Score:2)
Cause it already is a non-issue from the engineering standpoint, it's just not widely available commercially.
Yet. [global.toyota]
Re: (Score:2)
You are aware that cars use batteries, right? They don't actually have a power cord coming out the back that runs off electricity? So when the power goes out, your car doesn't charge. But the power that's in the battery is still there?
Also, in case you missed it, when the power goes out, so does that gas pump. Some gas stations have generators (because they have gasoline) that keep them going. But without that, yeah, no gasoline if the power goes out.
Dear God! If the power goes out, you won't be able
Executive Order? (Score:2)
Wouldn't this need to be an actual law? I understand some executive orders, such as how government departments can be run (at least at the federal level) and POTENTIALLY emergency measures such as pandemic prevention but the executive is supposed to enforce the law, not create it. Is this legal? It would be a simple matter to bring before the legislature.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm thinking the same thing - I don't think a governor has the power to just order such a thing. Even with the emergenceee powaass that the california legislature gave the governor as part of Covid to allow more leeway with XOs I still don't think this would fall under that.
Re: (Score:2)
By your own logic, it can just be declared that climate change to be an emergency, and then this becomes functional.
More extreme parts of the left have been saying this about many revolutionary causes for a while. For example "redefine racism as something that all whites inherently have as a feature of their race, then declare racism a health emergency, and you can burn down cities while your political opponents can't even gather to protest you during the pandemic".
He's just moving the market out of state (Score:2)
The order says Californian's can still own them and buy/sell used ones. Just can't buy a new one in-state.
So they will just order it from a dealer in a neighboring state and have it delivered.
That's fine! (Score:2)
People will just go over into Oregon and Nevada to buy new liquid fuel vehicles.
And they can fuck off for the tax revenue.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, first, I can see California not allowing you to register an ICE car in California after 2035. So you can buy that car in Nevada or Oregon. But good luck getting it registered in California.
Second, I know quite a few people who own a house or something in another state but live full-time in California. They register that car in the other state because it's cheaper. I've also known a few people who got busted doing that. It was pretty darned expense (value of the car times sales tax times 9).
So go
It shouldn't be hard to enforce (Score:2)
Recall (Score:2)
This shenanigan is one of many reasons why Gavin Newsom is facing a recall.
Re: (Score:2)
One can only hope.
Unfortunately, that useless bag of meat with hair gel on top has a good chance to get into the really safe seat of US Senator, which was vacated by KH, so we will get stuck with him for a long time.
Cold fusion (Score:2)
I wouldn't worry too much about this. By 2035 everyone will have been driven out of California by out of control regulation/taxation.
And before the decade is out.... (Score:2)
A lot.
I will be shocked as hell if this actually comes to pass before my children are grandparents.
Newsom magic at its best (Score:2)
There will be extra taxes for this.
It will require the raping of the planet to get the raw materials needed.
California will have laws saying in one breath, you cannot use unethically sourced materials, but in the next that you must.
Best of all, when it fails, he will have absconded to some place like Mar El Lago.
Everybody will buy trucks then (Score:2)
The manufacturers will produce small enough trucks to be viable as a home car, but still being classified as a truck to bypass this law.
Remember "heating devices" were sold when incandescent light bulbs were banned. They just happened to be the same shape.
As long as there is a customer, it will happen. As now Tesla is being sold to Texas over state lines, CA will receive the gas-guzzlers.
Idiots -- its the fuel not internal combustion (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately it's the emissions from burning fuel that are the major problem, and those don't depend on the source of the fuel. Google for "los angeles air pollution 1960s" for images of just how bad it was before CARB. Hint: it was fairly normal to not be able to see the length of a city block because of the smog. And LA wasn't a center of heavy industry, 90% of the smog came from vehicles and not industry.
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately it's the emissions from burning fuel that are the major problem, and those don't depend on the source of the fuel. Google for "los angeles air pollution 1960s" for images of just how bad it was before CARB. Hint: it was fairly normal to not be able to see the length of a city block because of the smog. And LA wasn't a center of heavy industry, 90% of the smog came from vehicles and not industry.
Hint: We have better emissions today. Hence the better air.
Same whinge as always (Score:5, Interesting)
When I hear people saying this can't be done I recall the refrain, heard ever since 1967, that California's emissions rules were infeasible, nobody could build a vehicle that could conform to them that could be profitably sold, all sorts of fear-mongering. And yet, year after year, vehicles meeting California's emissions standards hit the market and sold. Far from being impossible to meet them, these days it's all but impossible to find a new car that doesn't meet California emissions standards. I relegate the whinging over this no-ICE goal to the same bucket.
Yes, the electric grid will need upgraded to handle this. News flash, people: the electric grid needs upgrading to meet current demand safely and reliably. The power companies just don't want to spend the money if they could give it to their executives instead. It's rapidly getting to the point where they won't be allowed to get away with that, this is just going to be one more reason to force them to do the work they should've been doing the last couple of decades.
Oh, and the governor who presided over the birth of the California Air Resources Board and who pushed through the exemption allowing for tighter standards? Ronald Reagan. Because even he couldn't stand the air pollution in California cities before CARB.
Re: (Score:2)
I bet Las Vegas and Reno end up with booming auto sales industries around that time.
More like leasing. Ostensibly rentals, licensed in Nevada (or wherever). I just rented it and will be returning it as soon as my Tesla is delivered.
[Reminder to self: Order a Tesla some day.]
Re:Fires (Score:5, Informative)
"The Wragg Fire was a wildland fire that started just off California State Route 128 near Lake Berryessa in Napa County, California in the United States. The fire started on July 22, 2015.[1] The cause was an idling vehicle's car exhaust. The vehicle came into contact with dry grass and sparked the fire.[2]"
"Investigators have concluded the Apple Fire in southern California near Cherry Valley was caused by hot carbon particles from the exhaust system of a diesel-powered truck, which is not an uncommon cause of vegetation fires along roadways. Witnesses corroborated the investigators findings. At least three ignition points were found which all merged into one fire."
"Motorist parked vehicle in dry grass, igniting 9,500-acre wildfire in San Saba County"
"Just last week, a car that rolled from a parking lot in Maupin sparked a wildfire when its hot undercarriage came in contact with dry grass. ... Numerous wildfires around the state over the years were started by cars"
"The fire ignited on Aug. 1, approximately 16 miles east of Brady, as the result of an individual parking and idling their vehicle over tall, dry grass. As of Aug. 4, the fire has burned an estimated 9,500 acres and is only 50% contained."
"Many fires in our region have been sparked by vehicles idling on tall, dry grasses. If you find yourself in a roadside emergency, if safe, try to park your vehicle on pavement and away from tall grasses. If you do have to park on a median, be sure to keep your vehicle off, to prevent the hot tailpipe from igniting grasses."
(Just the first two pages of hits on Google...)
Re: Autonomous taxis will be the salvation .... (Score:2)
That is a shitload of taxis.
While that might reduce to total number of vehicles somewhat, it does nothing for the number trips required. It would however probably be a horrible experience.
Re: (Score:2)
How do you use denial as fuel? That would literally halve US CO2 emissions from cars if that was possible.
(Actually, it would reduce it by about 95%, but it's funny to watch two sides in denial blame each other as if they're the ones with The Truth).
Re: (Score:2)
My God, you're right! And there's absolutely no way that could happen in the next 15 YEARS.
Basically, what we're trying to set here is a deadline--2035. So by 2035, we need to have an electric grid that can handle 20 million cars. We'll need power plants that can supply power to charge 20 million cars. And we will need all that in the next 15 YEARS.
Personally, I think it's do-able--in the next 15 YEARS. But we probably should get started now if we're going to do it in the next 15 YEARS.