Twitter Hashtag For Far-Right Group Taken Over By Gay Men (cnn.com) 257
"The Proud Boys hashtag, which members of the far-right group have been using, was trending Sunday," reports CNN, "after gay men on Twitter hijacked it and flooded the feed with photos of their loved ones and families and with memes."
On Thursday 83-year-old George Takei (who'd play Sulu, the helmsman of the starship Enterprise, on the original Star Trek TV series) had suggested the hijacking to his 3.1 million followers on Twitter — and CNN describes what happened next: Matt Dechaine, one of the men who pitched in with photos of himself and his husband in efforts to overtake the hashtag, said his goal was simply to spread joy. "Seeing the hashtag was so uplifting," Dechaine, who is from England, told CNN. "It feels like the movement for positive change for all is gathering momentum all the time and I'm glad to be a small part of it. By coming together rooted in respect and love for each other, the world can be so much better!"
But Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys, said he doesn't see what the men are trying to accomplish. "I think it's hysterical," Tarrio told CNN. "This isn't something that's offensive to us. It's not an insult. We aren't homophobic. We don't care who people sleep with. People think it's going to bother us. It doesn't."
On Thursday 83-year-old George Takei (who'd play Sulu, the helmsman of the starship Enterprise, on the original Star Trek TV series) had suggested the hijacking to his 3.1 million followers on Twitter — and CNN describes what happened next: Matt Dechaine, one of the men who pitched in with photos of himself and his husband in efforts to overtake the hashtag, said his goal was simply to spread joy. "Seeing the hashtag was so uplifting," Dechaine, who is from England, told CNN. "It feels like the movement for positive change for all is gathering momentum all the time and I'm glad to be a small part of it. By coming together rooted in respect and love for each other, the world can be so much better!"
But Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys, said he doesn't see what the men are trying to accomplish. "I think it's hysterical," Tarrio told CNN. "This isn't something that's offensive to us. It's not an insult. We aren't homophobic. We don't care who people sleep with. People think it's going to bother us. It doesn't."
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Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Insightful)
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What, you're going to fart on them? How Python of you.
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If you feel like you're walking on eggshells around a friend, they are not a friend at all.
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Don't forget this video (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Don't forget this video (Score:4, Informative)
Hiding in plan sight (Score:2, Informative)
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They're assholes and not worth associating with, but you should respect their right to freedom of speech and assembly as is guaranteed under the US constitution as long as their leadership remains unconvicted of inciting or performing acts of violence.
Re: Don't forget this video (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Don't forget this video (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I don't recall Mr Cohen (Score:5, Informative)
Forbidden knowledge (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is the problem with the left wing position: they don't bother to debate the right.
Your post is filled with un-person labels meant to prevent discussion. Discussion is very much preferable to the alternative, it's how we sort out our differences. The alternative is violence.
So my question is: what are the exact policies that the Proud Boys expound that are wrong?
Here's a technique that I think is really appropriate:
First, recount their position in a way that they agree is accurate. If they disagree, go back and try again. Repeat until you have an accurate accounting of their position.
Next, explain why that position is wrong.
Finally, explain what remedies should be taken: should their position be made illegal? Should they be deplatformed, shadow banned, arrested? Why
The number of times people and groups have been mislabelled by the left is truly astounding. Milo Yiannopolis, Brett Weinstein, and Jordan Peterson are all wildly mis-represented online.
Many on the right have offered to debate the left on the issues, including the three above, and in no cases has the left taken them up on it.
Stop mislabelling people, stop un-personing people, and tell us what you think their specific views are.
And if they disagree with your rendition, modify your rendition until it's accurate.
NB: Just finished listening to two Joe Rogan interviews of Gavin McInnes, because I wanted to find out why his views are so dangerous. Know what? His views need to be addressed, because they're very convincing to someone not versed in the nuances of the position.
You can address political views head-on, or make them "forbidden knowledge".
You can guess which one will be more popular.
Re: Forbidden knowledge (Score:3)
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor ?
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Why should they bother? What is "debate" going to solve? Do you debate a mosquito when it lands on your arm? Do you debate a virus when it infects you? Did the Allies debate the German forces at Normandy?
Sometimes, you just have to draw a line.
A person is not a mosquito or a virus. Stop dehumanizing people to further your agenda. That's what N4zis do to spread their propaganda. You're just proving the OPs point.
Re:Forbidden knowledge (Score:5, Informative)
Here is an article about Daryl Davis [npr.org], a man who through diplomacy and discussion convinced hundreds of Ku Klux Klan members to hang up their robes and change their ways.
And yes there is a lot of talking and diplomacy going on during war even when they're blasting each other to hell, often negotiations or agreements such as return/exchange of POWs, acceptance of refugees, or agreement to not perform certain actions in war. War isn't like Command and Conquer where it's all about feet on the ground and planes in the air.
There is a concept called the four boxes of liberty. They are the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box, and these boxes should be used in that order. America is currently at the soap box stage, and the next is the ballot box. Should Trump or his successor if he is incapacitated refuse to step down after the ballot box, then it is the duty of all of America to say "Not guilty" against his opponents who are arrested for crimes against an unconstitutional administration. Should a man found not guilty be sent to jail, that is when you bring out the ammo box.
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Informative)
OTOH its leader made a video three years ago, now pulled down, called "10 things I hate about the Jews" which was an antisemitic as it sounds, and is a holocaust denialist. You say it has a vetting policy aimed at discouraging white supremacists from joining, but it has allied with white supremacists, and it was a former high up that organized the 2017 "Unite the Right" rally.
As a Canadian I can assure you we are glad he is your problem now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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I dare you to fix that article. It is impossible
Well, their justification for 'neo-fascist' is that 'reputable sources' use the term 'neo-fascist proud boys'.
As none of those sources provide any justification for that term the correct response would be to challenge the reputation of the sources, not cite them.
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You will never find a reputable citation where "neo-fascist men's group" = "men's rights movement" because that doesn't exist yet. Give it a year or two. When the whole thing dies down some journalist on new york times or guardian will just casually mention that "wikipedia says" and everyone will then repeat it, and then those articles will be retrofitted in to the article. Voila!
I challenge you do that. Let me know how long
Opposite of the facts (Score:4, Informative)
Your claims are directly opposite of the actual facts.
[Reagan] believed deficits didn't matter, and while he reformed the tax code a little he never suggested upper tiers should be as low as they are today.
The Reagan tax cut of 1986, along with cutting rates for everyone, cut the highest Personal Income Tax rate from 50% to 38.5% immediately decreasing to 28% in the following years. It's currently 37%. Reagan got 28%. That's what Reagan did, despite a Democrat-controlled House.
That's after he did the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985. Yeah, deficits were an emergency to him.
Here's nine minutes of him telling exactly what he thought about multi-billion dollar deficits:
https://youtu.be/_9TD6ejrVrA [youtu.be]
Of course now we have deficits into multiple trillions, vs not billions. The fact that the Democrat Congress spent doesn't mean Reagan thought deficits don't matter.
The only use of the phrase "don't matter" remotely related to Reagan is that years later somebody said that Reagan's re-election in 1984 despite not eliminating the deficit proves that deficits don't matter (in elections).
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Informative)
Regardless, it's not the left who are saying this. It's the media.
Don't forget the FBI, who classified them as an extremist organization in 2018.
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You cannot argue with these people. It is noble that you try, but this is not going trough. They are gone - the same as this reporter talking about peaceful protests while you could see burning city and riot going on in the background. I suspect that big chunk of this population does not even realize what they are talking about. This is off topic of course but maybe not - the way we all in the West cannot communicate anymore because we cannot even agree on facts. I suspect this was always so only the massiv
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:4, Insightful)
The rule is, if one left wing leaning person does something violent, or someone in the same rally as left wing leaning people, then this means the entire left wing is violent and out of control and probably marxist. If one far right wing person who is an avowed white supremacist attacks someone, then it's just a small outlier who gets disavowed and is not representative. This derives from the corollary of "we are always right and they are always wrong".
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something violent
And remember, it could be as little as smashing a window.
This derives from the corollary of "we are always right and they are always wrong".
Both sides do it, of course. It just happens to be those courting the far-right crazy vote who are running the country at the moment.
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The rule is, if one left wing leaning person does something violent, or someone in the same rally as left wing leaning people, then this means the entire left wing is violent and out of control and probably marxist
Greenpeace is left wing. People don't describe Greenpeace as a violent marxist group.
People describe BLM as a violent marxist group because their protests frequently involve rioting, desecration of historic culture and looting, and their founders are (by their own words) trained marxists.
People describe antifa as a violent group because they explicitly seek to use violence to promote their shitty anarchist and marxist ideals.
It's almost as though the people on the 'left' being described as violent are actua
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Greenpeace is left wing.
Greenpeace is mostly an environmental organization. That has nothing to do with "left" or "right".
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A real American would buy clean water from China.
Fixed that for you.
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So one leader of BLM is marxist, therefore the entire group must be marxist. But several members of Proud Boys hang out with far-right racist groups, but those people are merely outliers. The key to belonging to fringe movements is to be able to maintain two contradictory ideas in your head at the same time.
Historic culture - statues of traitors?
Antifa is even less organized and structured than the Proud Boys. Yet they've become the boogeyman because they stand in opposition to the peace loving neo-fasci
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I suspect they believe that there's a credible threat from such organisations.
I'm not challenging that. Terrorism is bad. Don't use attacks on civilian populations to pursue a political agenda.
Left or right.
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I'm always a little surprised about how worried some of my fellow liberals/leftists are of these guys; has anyone actually seen these guys in action? Their members are not exactly the most intimidating specimens...I mean, they're adult men who named their little gang after a Disney movie song which should tell you everything.
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't need to be intimidating to buy a gun and pull the trigger. Combine that with a lot of police being on "their side" doesn't help.
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Insightful)
The worry is the wannabe attitude; wannabe a soldier, protector, defender. Wandering around assuming that something evil is happening from those left of center (or even in the center), and that someone with a gun needs to guard against that, and then you set things up for a bad "accident". Add to the attitude that it's ok for police to shoot first as long as they felt a twinge of threat onto a group of self proclaimed wannabe policers.
If there's a political rally, please leave the guns at home. It's just stupid and asking for trouble to bring guns along in an era where political divides are so amazingly heated. You can much more easily recuperate from a fist fight than from a gun fight.
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Informative)
What I find disturbing, is you mention to leave the guns at home when talking about "far right" groups, but you don't include all the other weapons (including guns) that the left is bringing to their "mostly peaceful protests".
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Bricks were not brought by the paletteful. There was a picture of a palette of bricks but it was from a different day and for the construction. Memes can fool both sides remember.
Anarchists have been around causing problems for over a hundred years too.
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:4, Funny)
Well,
as an antifa myself, and a lefty, albeit a poor one, I would make sure that before protests starts, I buy a few thousand truck loads of pallets with bricks.
The pallets would be placed strategically on every road crossing for easy pick up and resupply.
I also would make sure all bricks are cut in half or even three pieces for more easy throwing.
And on top of that obviously I would put a sign on each pallet "Strictly for leftwing and Antifa - looters will be shot at".
And if you dare to make a picture of my stuff and post it somewhere my lawyer will hunt you for the rest of your life for copyright infringement and personal rights violation!!!
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If you need a gun to protect yourself from someone throwing rocks at you then you are a truly weak and pathetic person. ...
erm, I agree with "leave guns at home", as it is the law in europe. But your sentence makes no sense. You do not need to read the bible to know about David and Gholiat.
If I throw a rock at you, you end up in hospital, if I hit your head: you are dead. Of course a gun would not help you
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Sure. Shoot me because I believe in self-defence against violent anarchists.
That's really going to discourage me from defending myself.
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Informative)
From what I've read about the group, they seem to fit the definition of Incels more than they fit the definition of white supremacists. Maybe we should call them that instead. But as much as they try to skirt around being a "White Supremacy" movement, one of their core beliefs is "Western Culture Supremacy", so I do find this skirting around the label to be somewhat of a deception, as other white nationalist groups seeking political legitimacy have always used to keep the extremism somewhat hidden from public view.
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That's just daft. It's easy and right to treat people of all races the same, and yet acknowledge that not all cultures are created equal. Western culture has spacecraft and the Internet. Other cultures have female genital mutilation, throw gays off of roof tops, or think think sleeping with virgins will cure AIDS. When judging people, or groups of people, the only proper way is to judge by their actions and the content of their minds. Western supremacy makes sense, we prove it simply by living our live
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Remember, Western European Culture believed that sleeping with underage virgins would cure syphilis. I'm not talking about some obscure central European duchy, but Merry Old England in the 1800s. Western European Culture still believes in male genital mutilation in large part. Many of those in Western European Culture believe in throwing gays off of roofs as long as no one is watching, and it was within most of our memories when being gay was a crime in most european countries, and you could play smear t
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Merry Old England in the 1800s
Well that's the whole point...
Over a century ago, we lacked a lot of the scientific knowledge we have now. People did stupid things driven by superstition and religion, but western culture has advanced beyond that. Some other cultures have not.
Also, "not very superior" is still better than "inferior". Western culture is not without its flaws, but there are many other cultures with significantly worse problems.
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Meanwhile Western culture contains vaccine deniers, moon-landing deniers, homeopathy and other miracle cure believers (who promote and benefit from the scam in a very capitalist way), and all sort of other bullshit.
"Advancing beyond that" seems to be a personal trait, not a cultural one. All cultures are sensitive to the problem and may have people capable of overcoming it.
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Tell GP poster to say that about the "inferior" cultures.
BTW "christian" homophobic and misoginist values *are* the law in some western countries, just the same as islamist values in some arab countries. I still can't see the difference.
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They are a very modern far right group. They put out a lot of memes, in fact the name is a reference to a Disney movie. At the core though it's the same old crap from 90 years ago.
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:4, Interesting)
one of their core beliefs is "Western Culture Supremacy" [...]
"Western" has always been defined in terms of what it is not. First, it was "not the Eastern Roman Empire" (which included all of Greece and half of Italy). Next, it was "not the Islamic world" (which included a lot of what is now Spain). Then, it was "not Communist Eastern Europe".
Whatever "Western" is supposed to mean today, it sure as hell isn't geographic. It certainly isn't about a shared cultural heritage which includes the bits of Europe that they don't like.
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Why are there only two options here, western civilization with its history of genocide and institutional racism, or Stalinism? Is there honestly no alternative? Or is this "it's our way, or Stalinism" just another stupid talking point from the right that is used to discredit someone who has a mildly left of center idea?
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Insightful)
There is racism everywhere, it is inherent in most cultures. The difference is that western cultures are trying to do something about it, while many other cultures simply accept it and do nothing.
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I'm not the person you're responding to, but I think they're trying to say that this isn't about Stalinism vs Everything Else.
There are worse alternatives, as evidenced by the fact that we allied with Stalin to defeat fascism. Hell yes it was worth it.
Re: From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:2)
Should we make false dichotomies or should we make arguments in good faith?
Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Informative)
Social scientists who study groups like the Proud Boys or skinheads report that there's actually a diversity of viewpoints in the movements when it comes to race. There are both racist and anti-racist Proud Boys.
However the effort by organizers like McInnes to distance the movement from white supremacist are largely rebranding. They hold largely similar positions to White Supremacist but with express them superficially different terminology ; the labels are different but the in- and out-groups are for the most part the same.
I've spent some time on racist and white nationalist sites to see what goes on there, and a lot of it is training in dog-whistling. Newbies join, express extremist views, and the leaders don't contradict them, they train them to say the same thing in ways that would be less familiar and alarming to the general public.
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And I'd bet that they get so very surprised and appalled every friggin' time yet another one of their members gets discovered as a former member of (another) white supremacist group, for saying something racist, for doing something racist, etc. etc.
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And this is a far-right wing organization that:
1. Has a vetting policy aimed at blocking white supremacists from joining.
2. Has plenty of non-whites in its ranks.
3. Advocates tradition Regan-era conservatism for the most part.
4. Is run by an Afro-Cuban.
So clearly fungible with the Traditional Workers Party and Atomwaffen.
Yes, it's kind of crazy that the media has portrayed or conflated "Proud Boys" with white supremacist organizations and more generally that they characterize pro-second amendment counter-protestors as "right wing" protestors, but the BLM protestors are just "peaceful protestors" and never left-wing protestors or rioters.
It's like if I didn't know any better, I'd say that the elite media (ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NY Times et al.) comprise some kind of quasi-propaganda machine carrying water for the American Lef
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The "Proud Boys" have some fascist characteristics, but generally they seem to be fuck-ups that have no clue how things work and their initiation is more of a parody of anything real. They seem to be a dark joke gone seriously wrong because some people took it seriously.
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Re:From any leftist, "far right wing" = Nazi (Score:5, Insightful)
Reagan today would be accused of being a flaming liberal. Jesus would be run out of the country for being too mid-eastern, with socialist tendencies, and a refusal to pick a side in the political culture wars, just not a proper Christian at all. To hear it said, we never actually had a True Republican President until Trump, all the others were just RINOs, including Lincoln.
Who cares about Twitter...? (Score:5, Insightful)
...but George Takai is a national treasure.
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Re:Who cares about Twitter...? (Score:4, Funny)
...but George Takai is a national treasure.
Oh my...
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That's not the point, dude. (Score:5, Insightful)
But Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys, said he doesn't see what the men are trying to accomplish. "I think it's hysterical," Tarrio told CNN. "This isn't something that's offensive to us. It's not an insult. We aren't homophobic. We don't care who people sleep with. People think it's going to bother us. It doesn't."
It's not to piss you off, it to piss off your followers/base.
Re:That's not the point, dude. (Score:5, Insightful)
And he's lying out his ass. They're another of the many white supremacist groups in this country who are homophobic.
As an aside, one of their "policies" is you can only masturbate once per month. Yes, really.
Also, as another aside, it's always amusing when folks like this say, "It was the white man who built everything you see" then turn around and deny they have any responsibility for the outcome. It's as if accepting responsibility for their actions never enters into the equation. It's always someone else's fault.
Sound familiar?
And know you know, the rest of the story.
Re:That's not the point, dude. (Score:5, Funny)
one of their "policies" is you can only masturbate once per month.
But if that disqualifies you, they let you join the Ashamed Boys.
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The Proud Boys have announced a leadership change. Meet their new president, George Costanza!
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As an aside, one of their "policies" is you can only masturbate once per month. Yes, really.
But you can polish your rifle daily.
Drowning them on Twitter may be more important... (Score:2)
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Or when people started freaking anytime someone would give an ok hand gesture thanks to a 4chan troll, unless the giver was known to be on their side so immune from criticism.
They clearly haven't met the American far right. (Score:4, Funny)
I know several trollish internet righties personally. They're all gay as hell.
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Homoeroticism has been a big part of ultra-right wing nationalism for a long time. A lot of these proud boys sure look like self loathing homosexuals to be, just like their Brown Shirt forebearers.
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No, not self-loathing. Just gay. And out. Proud, even. You really do not understand the kind of person you're talking about.
Hahahaha (Score:2)
Hahaha, I take great joy in my brother's victory.
Blame Ben! (Score:2)
This entire thing is Benâ(TM)s fault. If he would have been just kind if assertive, there wouldn't have ever been a âProud Boysâ.
Who's to say they aren't gay white supremicists (Score:4, Funny)
I think its pretty biased to assume that only straight men can be white supremacists.
Usually I loathe “social media activism&rdqu (Score:5, Insightful)
But this is pretty freaking hilarious. Way to go, proud people!
I am pretty sure the group was trying to steal (Score:2)
Nice to see it backfire so spectacularly.
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Pride is actually one of the seven deadly sins.
Trying to avoid politics (Score:5, Insightful)
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Why did you ever come in the first place? Do you not look into sites before joining?
Shit man check out this story from 13 years ago: https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
Or this one from 1999: https://features.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]
This site has always delved into politics. Maybe you needs to find a different one.
Twitter is for twits (Score:2)
Those talking about what happens on Twitter are wasting their time.
And now ... (Score:2)
Republican Senators and Representatives are confused if they should use the hashtag for their racist or gay posts. Getting it right is super important for airport bathroom hook-ups.
Solidarity (Score:5, Insightful)
Trumps idea (Score:5, Funny)
This is not news (Score:2)
Anybody who's been on Twitter for a few months or so immediately recognizes this as just one of many examples of K-pop Stan [usatoday.com] activity. It's become so predictable that whenever you see something even vaguely pro-right trending on Twitter, you automatically assume that hash tag has been 'stanned.
It's not even an effective tactic. It just reveals the flaws of Twitter's trending algorithm, like how SEO ruins search results to the point where you can't trust anything. It's one of many arguments that might lead
First they stole rainbow from our children (Score:2, Funny)
Now they're stealing twitter accounts.
"hysterical" so not butt hurt at all. (Score:2)
Using the pejorative term hysterical [wikipedia.org] historical used against women shows just how butt hurt he really is, which is ****ing hilarious.
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Or do you think this narrow-minded fool thought he was using a "big word" for funny?
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That is why it is ****ing hilarious
Far-right, neo-fascist, white supremacist, ... (Score:3)
"The Proud Boys are a far-right, neo-fascist, and male-only organization affiliated with white supremacists - that promotes and engages in political violence." - Wikipedia ... but not homophobic, you say. Ok. Thank you for making that distinction clear.
It still puts you in the Asshole Hall of Fame. Just away from the homophobes. There's that.
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I also learned about the critical importance of Free Speech, and also, if you look down the list of "banned books," you will see a history of the Religious Right and Right wing forces in general, banning leftist books. I always thought, I had always believed, I was certainly taught, that Free Speech was a left wing issue.
The freedom of speech thing turned me hard against the left. But not really, just on this one topic.
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On most other topics, both parties are wrong in a muddling way, because of lack of nuance. An example is the eternal argument of whether we need "more regulation" or "less regulation." Of course the answer is that each regulation must be examined on its own merits, and arbitrarily increasing or decreasing regulation makes no sense. However, it takes more work to carefully examine each regulation, and i
Re:I Don't Think the Proud Boys are Terrible (Score:4, Informative)
Did you notice this at all?
https://twitter.com/RexChapman... [twitter.com]
It tells you what the proud boys are all about from the mouth of their creator.
I do wonder how long a Muslim leader would be able to carry on like this before they found themselves in jail under terrorism charges.