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Microsoft HP IT Technology

Microsoft Releases Update for Windows 10 To Prevent Swollen Laptop Batteries (betanews.com) 72

Posted by msmash from the watch-out dept.
Mark Wilson writes: Microsoft has teamed up with HP to work on a fix for a problem affecting various HP Business Notebooks. The flaw not only causes a reduction in performance and battery life, but can also lead to swollen batteries. The problem lies with the HP Battery Health Manager, and the update from Microsoft and HP is rolling out to enable a new charging algorithm to help alleviate the issue. Writing about the update, Microsoft says: "Microsoft is working with HP to distribute a solution to help address a configuration setting issue within HP Battery Health Manager on select HP Business Notebooks that can affect battery life and performance. This update does not require a restart to take effect."
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Microsoft Releases Update for Windows 10 To Prevent Swollen Laptop Batteries More

Microsoft Releases Update for Windows 10 To Prevent Swollen Laptop Batteries

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  • The real news here (Score:4, Insightful)

    by richy freeway ( 623503 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @05:13PM (#60600714)

    "This update does not require a restart to take effect."

    Progress?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sinij ( 911942 )
      I think having a patch for swollen-anything is a notable progress on its own.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kisai ( 213879 )

        Given this problem exists in ALL laptops to certain extremes.

        Dell XPS, Latitude and Precision laptops all have battery swelling problems, but the thinner ones tend do it a lot.

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          Of course they do, it is a design feature carried over from mobile phones with fixed batteries. It ensures that when the battery fails the phone is destroyed forcing the purchase of a new phone. My poor old Note 3 just popped the back cover, my modern well designed phones, crack the main board instead, killing that phone permanently, a purposefully designed failure point. Well look at that, it works so well killing mobile phones, they are doing it to laptops.

          They same lie to sell it, it looks sexier with f

          • The "E" series Dell Latitudes all have removable batteries, and I have had half a dozen had batteries swell.
            The newer models with built in batteries take about 10 minutes to replace.
          • We purchased 135 HP tablets. We've had 47 with the bulging battery issue - which actually pops the screen right out of the chassis. When we spoke to HP about this they advised this was an expected behaviour in batteries as they age. (gas moving into a balloon essentially). This update can't come soon enough for us.

    • "This update does not require a restart to take effect."

      Progress?

      It'll restart by itself

  • Firmware? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GigaplexNZ ( 1233886 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @05:29PM (#60600778)
    Why does this need Microsofts involvement at all? Surely this is a firmware level issue?
    • I had the same exact thought? It doesn't sound like consumers are getting the full story.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sjames ( 1099 )

      Exactly. If the firmware willingly accepts input that leads to a swollen battery problem (or allows the swollen batteries in the absence of input), then the firmware is defective and needs fixing. If they can't fix it then the affected hardware needs to be replaced.

    • Surely this is a firmware level issue?

      I'm thinking that firmware and swollen battery have the makings of a bad pick-up line...

    • Re:Firmware? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mhotchin ( 791085 ) <slashdot@NOSPam.hotchin.net> on Monday October 12, 2020 @07:19PM (#60601052)

      It's probably just a distribution issue. If HP can roll this into a Windows Update offering, then it's likely to actually be installed. Who's going to go to the HP web site 'just in case' there's an update?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        It's probably just a distribution issue. If HP can roll this into a Windows Update offering, then it's likely to actually be installed. Who's going to go to the HP web site 'just in case' there's an update?

        Likely the real reason. After all, a swollen battery is a fire risk. If you leave it to your updater software then there will be a huge chance that it will never be applied and the battery will still be a fire risk.

        But if they can roll it as a Windows update, chances are it will be applied far more widely

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        They need to have an "only install important driver updates, not Intel's monthly bullshit" option. My wifi works fine, you don't need to update it every month.

    • probably because Microsoft have the deployment infrastructure in place. A lot of people don't have the HP crapware installed so they can't push their own patches.

    • Re:Firmware? (Score:4, Informative)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @09:01PM (#60601290)
      Microsoft distributes driver updates for various partners through windows update.
    • Probably because their braindamaged S0 pretend-sleep-that-isn't-sleep is an aggravating factor in these battery failures. Luckily you can disable it in hardware in Lenovo laptops...
      • s0 is NOT a sleep state. It is powered on working as normal, if that is aggravating the issue then that is NOT a software problem. Actually none of the power states s0-s4 should ever be able to trigger a hardware failure, that they potentially could would most definitely be a HARDWARE failure not a software one.
        • I know that and you know that but thanks to Microsoft's branding of it as "Modern Sleep" most users think of it as a sleep state. And then wonder why their laptop is melting when they put it into their backpack when it's supposed to be "asleep".

          • It *is* a sleep state. Idle S0 allows processors to reduce power consumption, comparatively S3 forces it. Mind you if your laptop is melting when in Modern Sleep (an extension of what was previously Connected Standby) then you have some fucked up program in the background preventing that sleep state from working as it should considering that after about 3-5 minutes depending on background tasks being completed a system in modern standby shouldn't have the processor consuming any more power than a system in

            • I spent quite some time disabling all wake timers and similar, there are no timers set any more and the laptop would still melt down if put to sleep until I killed S0 in the BIOS. Google something like "windows 10 laptop overheat" or similar and you'll find many, many laptop owners with the same problem: Laptop goes to sleep and then some time later it's cooking itself with no user actions taken.

              • Yep, as I said you have software that's preventing sleeping working properly, something completely distinctively different from Modern Sleep using high power. My computer lasts a good 4 days on Modern Sleep and doesn't get warm.

                Laptop goes to sleep and then some time later it's cooking itself with no user actions taken.

                So it woke itself from sleep to do something. Sleep working as intended. Nothing to do with S0 consuming a lot of power, or Microsoft doing some nefarious rebranding.

                But I understand your BIOS approach. I also once saw a spider in my house and decided to reach for the 12 gauge shotgu

                • So how would you have fixed the problem of the laptop cooking itself, and the same problem encountered by large numbers of other users of their laptops cooking themselves?

                  • What's waking the laptop? Windows keeps track. Have you tried reinstalling windows yet? Or failing that maybe you have a hardware problem, consider an RMA.

                    "large numbers" are meaningless in the context of the 10s of millions of laptops out there which don't have this problem.

                    Incidentally I had a problem with my desktop computer not sleeping either. Turns out it was my keyboard driver.

                    In any case large numbers of laptop users also have problems that have nothing to do with the technical design of S0 states,

                    • I have no idea what's causing it, but since so many others have the same problem and no-one has been able to find an obvious cause, I'm going to go with a generic "Windows 10 is causing it".

                      Have you tried reinstalling windows yet? Or failing that maybe you have a hardware problem, consider an RMA.

                      Let's see, return the laptop, reinstall Windows, or disable S0. Gosh, I wonder which of those gets the job done with no effort or interruption to service, and which at the same time I know will solve the problem...

                    • I'm going to go with a generic "Windows 10 is causing it".

                      That makes sense when every laptop has the problem. Otherwise it's something else causing it.
                      Welcome to windows. It's always a big mix of problems. Maybe it's the specific hardware you have (hp by any chance?)

                      Gosh, I wonder which of those gets the job done with no effort or interruption to service

                      Yep. Bandaid solutions that make the product otherwise worse are always the easiest. I too don't put any effort into my problems.

              • So turn it off. Modern(ish) laptops with SSDs boot so fast anyhow it's hardly a sacrifice.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cusco ( 717999 )

      Probably because HP is incompetent to fix it themselves.

    • Why does this need Microsofts involvement at all? Surely this is a firmware level issue?

      a) Microsoft delivers firmware updates for OEMs via windows update.
      b) Windows update is unlikely to be disabled or bypassed and would be more reliable in delivering a critical update than anything HP has running on your system (assuming you're mad enough to let HP software run and auto update itself in the first place).

    • HP Laptop relies on Microsoft software to not catch fire ?
      Hmmm. My former decison to not buy anything HP any more is confirmed !!

    • Because Microsoft now distributes a number of manufacturer-specific updates through Windows Update. Usually they take on the responsibility of critical updates, such as the ones where computers potentially explode, or major security issues. This ensures that the updates make it to the target systems.
    • HP suggested to us that there are recent BIOS updates to deal with this. The problem is getting that BIOS update implemented across our fleet, which is split between working from home and the office. The risk of users interrupting the update is a concern as well. We've been researching a way to safely execute the BIOS update.

  • If you have to patch the software such that the... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ffkom ( 3519199 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @05:31PM (#60600792)
    ... hardware does not blow up, then the hardware is defect. It is beyond me how people find it acceptable that any of the thousands of exploitable security holes in their software could be used by some adversary to set their house on fire.

    (And yes, a "swollen battery" is a euphemism for a battery so dangerously defect that it can puncture itself on any surrounding material and then burst into flames.)

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sjames ( 1099 )

      (And yes, a "swollen battery" is a euphemism for a battery so dangerously defect that it can puncture itself on any surrounding material and then burst into flames.)

      And we are assured, the battery won't explode, it will "vent with flame". I'm sure that fine distinction will be very meaningful for people standing outside their burned out homes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by evanh ( 627108 )

      Boeing thinks those are okay to put in the belly of their latest aircraft. It must be safe. ;)

    • ... hardware does not blow up, then the hardware is defect.

      What if you have to patch the firmware? I mean I'm sure I could write an ECU that disables the over-rev protection on your car while at the same time making the engine so sensitive that the slightest press on the accellerator will go full throttle, hell I could write an ECU that prevents the load on the engine reducing thereafter pretty much guaranteeing the engine will be destroyed.

      Does that mean your engine was bad? Of course not.

      Hardware is regulated by software (firmware). You may not like it, but that

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by stooo ( 2202012 )

      Safety software exists, but seriously, this is Microsoft. They never wrote anything you can rely on.

  • HP used to make high quality business systems. Now, even when they make the hardware and the software they need a 3rd party to help them make it work right. HP is a sad effigy of its former self.

  • Pr0n filter... (Score:3)

    by jddj ( 1085169 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @05:33PM (#60600802) Journal

    Less pr0n, less chub.

  • ... or a you still using Microsoft?

  • Typical HP denying any problem. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    So rather than a recall to fix the batteries, HP have decided to nobble the charging rate to mask the problem?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      My HP netbook battery swelled up, they refused a replacement due to warranty period slightly over. I won't be buying a HP again.

      • I would be rather p'd off about that as well. Luckily here in Australia - we have laws that protect us from type of thing. If something fails when you reasonably expect it to function (IE the battery swelling - manufacture fault), then they are required to replace it by law. The ACC has and will take company's to court over this type of thing - and they put huge fines on them for it as well.

        • You can get a 3 year warranty for most of these laptops for a pittance. Even on a two thousand dollar Elitebook it's only a couple hundred bucks. HP stuff is mostly junk though, to be fair.

        • Luckily here in Australia - we have laws that protect us from type of thing.

          We do, too; it's called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and our largest companies routinely violate it.

  • If we knew which systems were affected. Yes, I did go to the link in the article, and the HP link as well, and nowhere does it say what HP machines are or might be affected. In fact, I get an Access Denied message when trying to get to customer advisory notice page.

    So yeah, thanks for the bountiful information about this issue.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rossdee ( 243626 )

      Since I also have an HP laptop, I would be interested in the model nos affected.

      But I just use it when plugged into AC power, so the battery isn't being discharged and recharged.

      • That doesn't necessarily help. Being fully charged is one of the three biggest causes of wear. The other two are high temperature, and being charged while at freezing temperature.
    • Ours are Elite Tab x2 1012 and 1013.

  • Breuh, my laptop is SWOLE from all these charge cycles. All it took was 5 sets of 10 every day.

  • You'd think an article like this would spell out which systems are actually affected, but apparently that's too much work for reporters these days.

    Microsoft's KB4583263 Update to address configuration setting issue within HP Battery Health Manager on select HP business notebooks [microsoft.com] leads you to HP PCs - Address Configuration Setting Issue within HP Battery Health Manager Using Windows Update (KB4583263) [hp.com] where you can see the list of affected machines.

    • 400 series:
      • HP ProBook 430 G7 Notebook PC; HP ProBook 430 G

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MeanE ( 469971 )
      Half our fleet of HP Elite x2 1012 G2's have had their batteries replaced and I am sure the rest will follow. The HP tech comes once a week these days to swap batteries out. They did not start releasing BIOS updates to resolve their battery issues on this model until a few years in...damage done. We did apply BIOS updates to our G3 and G4's which hopefully caught this before causing damage. So far non of them have experienced battery issues but they are newer so yet to be seen.

      • lesson learned, hopefully.
        Never buy HP again

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MeanE ( 469971 )
          Probably not. It's a government standing offer that I have no say in. Back around 2008 or so we were replacing almost every motherboard in our Dell D630's as they had NVIDIA chips were guaranteed to die. If I eliminated every manufacturer who has has major defects there would be nobody to buy from. At least HP has made it no hassle to do the replacement and the tech can do the swap in about 7 mins per machine. He has it down flat.
  • No LiPos on my lap-o... seriously, steel can cells are dangerous enough as it is... nothing like a laptop/phone that can spontaneously combust when crushed in a recliner or airliner seat. I will admit, however, that both are plenty safe in most cases. Number of 18650-based batteries i've had physically damage themselves from heat: 0. Number of devices I've owned/operated with a swollen LiPo pack? Probably over 20 (mostly cell phones, but also a few laptops).
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I have one laying around (rather safed in a steel ammo box) that seemed to have its protection triggered after reaching full charge... at least it reports 100% charge to windows, but the machine shuts off when disconnected from mains. Might give it a poke out in the parking lot... or possibly further charge it from my car battery. Might actually wait until new years for that.
    • What on earth are you doing that you've had a problem with 20 batteries? I've been using laptops so long I remember when Zenith made them, and my first mobile had 20 minutes of service included, which was still a luxury compared to the pager I used before. I. know battery swell is a real thing, but it hasn't happened to me once, and I relentless buy and use gear. 20 times? Even assuming some hyperbole, maybe you had it happen 5 times. What are you doing?

      • What on earth are you doing that you've had a problem with 20 batteries?

        Owning and operating many LiPo battery packs in various devices.... again, mostly cell phone batteries that turn into a 'pillow' after a few years, but also a couple of swollen LiPo laptop batteries in the past few years. I will note that a lot of this stuff was used (went through many hand-me-down phones with old batteries), so I suspect some of it was due to age. Also included work-issue devices and family 'common' devices, so the count is higher than machines that were exclusively mine (of which I've sti

        • Also, in some cases, the swelling was only noticed after the battery went bad and the device was taken apart, or the plastic housing stripped from the battery pack.

  • Lenovo (at least) manages this intelligently (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Krishnoid ( 984597 ) on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @12:50AM (#60601714) Journal

    It has an option to charge the battery to 50%, and then run the laptop directly from the power brick, bypassing the battery entirely until it drops to something like 45% to charge it back up to midway.

    This puts the battery into something like the mode it's in when you buy it from the store/warehouse, which should extend its life significantly. The laptop obviously needs some charging electronics to charge the battery, read the charge, and stop charging it, and to additionally bypass the battery completely at a given charge level.

    Considering how much it could extend battery life for a laptop that spends a lot of its time plugged in, a new laptop must have this feature for me to consider buying it.

    • It has an option to charge the battery to 50%, and then run the laptop directly from the power brick, bypassing the battery entirely until it drops to something like 45% to charge it back up to midway.

      I think it's only the Thinkpads that have this battery management feature, or do their non-business-oriented laptops also have it nowadays?

      The laptop obviously needs some charging electronics to charge the battery, read the charge, and stop charging it, and to additionally bypass the battery completely at a given charge level.

      Every device with Li-based rechargeables already has those electronics, because it's the only way you can safely recharge them. The only difference is that Lenovo allows you to change the threshold from software. Apparently, it is also software-controllable in HP laptops, just not by the end-user. I suspect that in some devices, the thresholds are hardwired.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Megane ( 129182 )
      Apple stops the battery from charging until it reaches 95%, they did this around 2002 or so, too late for my laptop back then. A few months ago I got a 3rd party replacement battery for my old Unibody laptop and it wants to charge at 99%, so apparently that was a battery firmware change, not a host computer or power management chip change. My previous original battery lasted EIGHT years mostly plugged into the charger before it finally started bulging, so the basic idea works. Oh well, I'll just get another

  • If mere software can make your battery design swell, you have a bad design. Stupid kids making software in devices missing physical safety systems, able to cause catastrophic failure

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