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The Military United States

In Historic Test, US Navy Shoots Down an Intercontinental Ballastic Missile (popularmechanics.com) 175

"In a historic test, a U.S. Navy guided missile destroyer shot down an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) warhead aimed at a patch of ocean off the Hawaiian Islands," reports Popular Mechanics: Once the missile launched, a network of sensors picked it up. The data was then handed off to the guided missile destroyer USS John Finn, which launched a SM-3 Block IIA interceptor. Just as the ICBM released a [simulated] nuclear warhead, the SM-3 released an Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle (EKV) designed to smash itself into the incoming warhead. Infrared cameras recorded a visible explosion as the EKV took out the simulated nuclear warhead.

Most types of ballistic missiles are basically small payload space rockets designed to boost nuclear warheads into low-Earth orbit. Once in space, the warhead coasts through orbit at several thousand miles per hour — the so-called midcourse phase when the warhead is midway between its launch point and target. The warhead then de-orbits into a trajectory that sends it plunging toward its target.

Meanwhile, space-based infrared sensors pick up the hot launch plume of the ballistic missile. A launch alert is passed on to ground-based long range radars, which search the skies for the incoming threat. As the missile falls away and the warhead continues on to its target, missile defense radars track the target, plot its trajectory, and alert any "shooters" in the flight path capable of shooting down the warhead. The shooter then launches an interceptor, and the EKV steers itself into the warhead path...

The article includes video of the test, and concludes that the ability to shoot down missiles is "terrible news for China" — while adding this "could very well cause Beijing to increase its nuclear arsenal."
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In Historic Test, US Navy Shoots Down an Intercontinental Ballastic Missile

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  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Saturday November 21, 2020 @03:34PM (#60751456)

    Why? China would just put a giant H-bomb into a shipping container, one of the 40.000 that land in the US every day.
    No need for rockets.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Nah, they will use hypersonic missiles.

      The US is the first to demonstrate this technology but everyone knew it was coming and assumed everyone else was working on it. Hypersonic missiles are the solution.

    • by spth ( 5126797 )

      A shipping container would only be useful in a surprise attack.

      I'd consider a US-China war an unlikely scenario. But if it happens it will likely be a conflict where actual warfare is limited to a certain area, e.g. the strait of Taiwan. Maybe the US could try to shoot down some of the non-nuclear Chinese missiles targeted at Taiwan in such a scenario (but I guess China would plenty of non-ballistic missiles to use instead). In such a scenario, there would be embargoes, so shipping containers were not an op

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kiviQr ( 3443687 )
      I hate to break it to you but if they did that the biggest beneficent of it would be USA. No more goods from China.
    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      Ground level bursts are not nearly as effective, and it would be detected long before it could be set off.

    • We test shipping containers. They use both geiger counters and x-ray machines on them. Don't get all of them, but my understanding it has about a 30% chance of detonating miles out at sea.

    • That would be a preemptive attack, and is not something China would do, as they've repeatedly stated, and unlike other nations which are much more likely to be the people in mind with this demonstration.

    • I think its very unlikely China or Russia would attack the US with nuclear weapons. Why use 20th century technology when the 21st century attacks are so effective, and so much harder to stop.

      The risk is "rogue states" that might only have a few missiles, and I suspect we check cargo from those states very carefully.

  • by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @03:40PM (#60751486)
    When I was in the Gulf War we had a Patriot missile battery stationed close to our base. The Patriot missiles actually performed very poorly in real life conditions, but you never would have known that coming from the press releases that came out at the time. Heck, one night, a Scud was coming in and the Patriots took flight, only to deflect the Scud. The Scud made the first boom and the second Patriot made another boom when it followed the Scud into the sand. It was quite spectacular to watch actually.
    • by Joe2020 ( 6760092 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @04:06PM (#60751616)

      This was more than 15 years ago and the Patriot missile afaik wasn't designed for the task, but it only happened to work to some effect that it became major news. The Patriot's initial function was against air crafts.

      Now the tech has advanced and is being designed specifically for this task. The SM-3 is even capable of reaching low Earth orbits. So I'm sure one can expect a bit more from it than from a Patriot missile in this regard.

      • Oh, I was unaware that the Patriot's main goal was for aircraft. That would explain a lot then.
        • by PPH ( 736903 )

          Yeah. The anti-missile capability was achieved by cobbling a couple of systems. The Patriot SAM plus a more capable missile acquisition and tracking system. The software patch that allowed the two systems to talk together didn't sync their clocks perfectly. Over time, an error would accumulate, resulting in the tracking system's handing off incorrect coordinates to the missile battery.

        • Oh, I was unaware that the Patriot's main goal was for aircraft. That would explain a lot then.

          It will probably surprise you, but pretty much all anti-aircraft missile sets were designed to shoot down aircraft, not just Patriot.

    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      Patriots went through several redesigns after that.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • by Aighearach ( 97333 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @05:19PM (#60751914)

      Patriot was the first deployed weapon in a series that has culminated in the SM-3.

      Current model Patriot missiles shoot down scuds no problem, and in fact also shoot down fighter jets.

      So many people don't understand what this technology is, what they've done with it, how many different surface-to-air and air-to-air missiles systems have converged. Our current air-to-air missiles can hit orbital targets when fired from the flight ceiling of our current jets. Our standard surface-to-air protection systems have merged with our ballistic missile defense systems.

      Imagine a future that exists. A future where we didn't burn the planet down to the rock. It is perhaps possible.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @03:45PM (#60751516)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @03:51PM (#60751536)

      Come on, ABM systems are effective against enemies that have small payload barely suborbital rockets and are too dumb to use fishing boats or shipping containers as delivery vehicles. That's a large and important group!

      • Fishing boats and cargo containers as delivery systems preclude the most damaging effects of nuclear devices: air burst detonations. When you set one off at ground level, the earth absorbs most of the energy. Terrain features such as small hills and large man made structures such as those surrounding ports have a tremendous effect on directing the explosive energy up and away from doing substantial, widespread damage. The infrared flash is largely mitigated to a very small area--to those who are right at gr

        • Wiping out the ports of a port city is ecological devastation. Doing so against a city that relies on dikes and sea walls, such as New Orleaans, could channel the artificial tsunami up the river and destroy the ability to navigate the river for years.

        • Basically, you'd maybe wipe out a chunk of a large port, handicapping it for a while. You'd not be wiping out the surrounding port city.

          Try again. This article [battleswarmblog.com] attempts to estimate the explosive force of the Beirut explosion. Using a best guess estimate based on observable damage, the author comes up with a 2.75 KT explosion.

          The port is now fully operational [middleeastmonitor.com] according to the director of the port, after three weeks of repairs. However, they can only receive goods, not store them, because their warehouses w

          • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

            Except I suggest you watch the video of the explosion. It was in large tall storage towers, move it back to the ground and the effect to the surrounding area would have been lower.

        • by hey! ( 33014 )

          You're assuming that any part of the city not affected by immediately fatal radiation or blast would be completely unaffected. But right off the bat dealing with the sheer number of severely injured survivors would be a crushing economic and social burden. If you choose your spot carefully you can deal devastating damage to that city's economy.

          There's maybe ten of fifteen square blocks of Lower Manhattan which destroying would not only bring the city to its knees, it would deal a devastating economic blow

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • too dumb to use fishing boats or shipping containers as delivery vehicles

        Now learn about radiation, how far away it can be detected, and if shielding actually makes it invisible, or just increases the time term on the detector. Because if it only increases the time term on the detector, then shipping might be easily monitored from space for nuclear material.

        Also, the displacement of a ship is visible from space, and all shipping is automatically tracked by US government computer systems. When you load a container ship with cargo, the US government knows how much each container w

    • by spth ( 5126797 )

      I don't think this is meant to be used against Russia or China.

      Shooting down ICBMs (or other long-range ballistic missiles) could still be very useful when the USA attack e.g. North Korea, Iran or Pakistan.

      • Yeah, I was coming here to make the same comment (except I didn't think of Iran or Pakistan). The comments about China are, IMO, just missing the point; sort of like the negative comments about Reagan's Star Wars missed the point. Sure, no one knew whether it would actually work, but the Soviets were really afraid it would.

    • with the impending addition of hypersonics, its hard to conceive of a meaningful kill strategy at all.

      It defends against any insane North Korean leader. It will be a long time before they can surpass this technology.

      As for China or Russia, we really really don't want a war with them in any way.

      • China might not even have enough warheads to get past the missile defenses we sold to Japan.

        The missile system that was featured in this successful test is the one we already have widely deployed.

        • Yeah, it's a really big open question how many warheads China has, and what kind of delivery capability they have.
    • by sconeu ( 64226 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @04:33PM (#60751760) Homepage Journal

      Regardless of what the TFA and TFS say, this is not aimed at China. It's aimed at North Korea, and at other countries like it.

      I did missile defense software for 8 years in the early 2000s. Everyone in the business knew that Russia and China could overwhelm point defenses. This sort of thing is to defend against a "rogue nation".

    • That's assuming that the MIRV warhead has already deployed. I think the intent here is to strike an ICBM earlier in transit, before MIRV deployment.

    • You assume that the system was somehow meant to get ahead in the global weapons race against Russia and China. It isn't. It is meant to deter smaller countries from trying anything stupid. Hence was it launched from a ship, which as you know, makes the missile deployable anywhere in the world where there could be another conflict occurring.

      • You assume that the system was somehow meant to get ahead in the global weapons race against Russia and China.

        It says it right there in the summary -- "terrible news for China."

        Now maybe the summary is wrong, but attack the summarizer, not the comment poster.

        • It says it right there in the summary -- "terrible news for China."

          Did it also say that you should believe anything without question? Because I didn't see it and yet did you do exactly that.

        • Yes, in the summary attributed to Popular Mechanics. I'm sure they're a reliable source for international politics.

    • Each MIRV warhead costs a lot more money than an SM-3, though. Your idea that 16 is an insurmountable number ignores this fact.

    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      It was conceived and then terminated, most likely in favor of directed energy weapons.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
      https://www.defense.gov/Explor... [defense.gov]

    • by dwywit ( 1109409 )

      Is it feasible to *not* try to hit a hypersonic, but to throw debris in its projected path?

    • I figure it's mostly intended to guard against something that Kimjong or Iran might throw around in the next 10-20 years. Doesn't look like they have MIRVs yet, at least not reliable ones, and even those can be countered to an extent (you just need to have 10x more interceptors than they have MIRVs). Hypersonics are going to be a ways out for those guys still.

  • by AndyKron ( 937105 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @04:00PM (#60751582)
    You know we're not supposed to do doing that, making anti-missile missiles. There was an agreement, where did it go? Trump? That fucker again?
  • They are far more unstable than China despite the buddy-buddy relationship that Trumpo has with Kim. PErhaps that will be where Donald will hide away from the SDNY Tax investigation after 20th Jan?

    • by dj245 ( 732906 )

      They are far more unstable than China despite the buddy-buddy relationship that Trumpo has with Kim. PErhaps that will be where Donald will hide away from the SDNY Tax investigation after 20th Jan?

      Do you think North Korea and China are separate issues? Even though North Korea isn't China's lapdog (and they really don't want to be), foreign policy with the two countries is tied together. Getting cozy with North Korea irritates China because they don't want a US ally (or friendly) on their border. Threatening North Korea irritates China because destabilizing it would flood them with refugees and is also a show of power against China.

  • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @04:02PM (#60751594) Homepage Journal

    for decades now. It almost always turns out to be under highly unrealistic conditions. Sometimes for politically high stakes demonstrations (e.g. Reagan's Star Wars) the tests are tweaked to give impressive looking visuals.

    Not to minimize the technical achievement here, nobody should take this as proof that the US can shoot down a real-life ICBM launch.

  • by crow ( 16139 )

    That's an impressive feat, but nobody will pay any attention unless it gets a much better name. Reporters don't like talking about a "SM-3 Block IIA interceptor." If you want Congress to fund this, you need a name like, "Dragonfire Missile Killer."

    I'm only half serious, but there's a reason we talk about "Patriot Missiles" and not "MIM-104C missiles."

    • The "MAGA Missile"! Just kidding, LOL.
    • by dj245 ( 732906 )

      That's an impressive feat, but nobody will pay any attention unless it gets a much better name. Reporters don't like talking about a "SM-3 Block IIA interceptor." If you want Congress to fund this, you need a name like, "Dragonfire Missile Killer."

      I'm only half serious, but there's a reason we talk about "Patriot Missiles" and not "MIM-104C missiles."

      I feel like there is a missed opportunity here to call it the Yellowfin Early Entry Terminator, or YEET Missile.

  • by thragnet ( 5502618 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @04:11PM (#60751640)

    But it shot down an Airbus.

  • by Timothy2.0 ( 4610515 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @04:21PM (#60751702)
    Colour me impressed when they can target and destroy the multiple warheads of a MIRV like, say, China's DF-41...
  • The ICBM was simply trying to make it across continents and the mean interceptor blocked it.

  • It will not be long before they begin firing 'test' missiles over Japan again. It's not like Trump ever got any real commitment done with them.

  • ...so they shot down a hot-air balloon that was using a missile (viable or otherwise) as ballast while it was crossing international borders?
  • Not an orbit (Score:5, Informative)

    by GuB-42 ( 2483988 ) on Saturday November 21, 2020 @07:55PM (#60752274)

    Most types of ballistic missiles are basically small payload space rockets designed to boost nuclear warheads into low-Earth orbit. Once in space, the warhead coasts through orbit at several thousand miles per hour — the so-called midcourse phase when the warhead is midway between its launch point and target. The warhead then de-orbits into a trajectory that sends it plunging toward its target.

    Unless I missed something, this is not how ICBM work. ICBM follow a suborbital trajectory, going high into space and falling back to earth. It is just free fall, no de-orbiting.

    What is describe here is FOBS [wikipedia.org]. A delivery method developed by the Soviet Union in the 60s but now decommissioned, and also banned.

    • Whether you call it ICBM or FOBS doesn't matter much, I think. In both cases, most of the trajectory is a kind of orbit that does not require (much) additional propulsion, which implies 8 km/s velocity (18,000 mph). In both cases it's very hard for a counter-missile to catch up and then match two 8 km/s trajectories such that they intercept with 1 m accuracy in space and 1 ms in time.

  • What good is shooting down a missile that's just dead weight?

  • > while adding this "could very well cause Beijing to increase its nuclear arsenal."

    Couldn't they just develop the same technology, and prevent the US nuclear attack from reaching China? That's much more in line with their purely defensive and deterrent intentions, as they've repeatedly stated.

  • In order for a "ballistic" missile to work well (hit its target) It need a precise "arc" to its target. The earth is not round, it's more like a pear, and it also had "microgravities" that can alter the course of the ballistic missile. If you aim at a large target, like a city, you will most likley hit it, but if you want to hit a US military base, you may not have much luck unless your geodetic maps are very, very precise and good. Unbeknownst to many, the USSR could not hit the broadside of a barn with t
  • In the end, making icbms useless is probably a good thing for the entire world and the capability should be made available world wide so they can be decommissioned and the risk of launching them by mistake is removed from the world.

    That is, unless the USA wants to leverage this in an aggressive manner... They wouldn't do that, would they?

  • This is why the Russians developed the Status-6 system. Eventually the US will work out how to shoot down warheads so they designed a nuclear powered and armed torpedo system that cruises quietly into a port and then detonates its warhead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    Also:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    I don't know where the Chinese are up to in regard to hypersonic *maneuvering* warheads but the Russians are certainly all over it.

    The takeaway is that no one's giving up their advantage. The US works

  • The direct kinetic kill capability is impressive, but I would assume that in a real intercept a nuclear armed version would be used. There is good reason to think neutron bombs were developed to intercept in coming missiles (the neutrons travel quickly and a near critical warhead is very sensitive to neutrons).

    At least I hope this is the case, since a nuclear armed interceptor would have a much higher probability of success.

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..." -- Isaac Asimov

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