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'Free Speech' Reddit Clone Voat Says It Will Shut Down on Christmas (theverge.com) 167

Voat, an "anti-censorship" alternative social network that's been described as the "alt-right Reddit," is scheduled to shut down on December 25th. From a report: Voat co-founder Justin Chastain announced the pending closure this week, saying the site had run out of money after an investor defaulted on their contract in March. "I personally decided to keep Voat up until after the US election of 2020. I've been paying the costs out of pocket but now I'm out of money," Chastain wrote. Voat was founded in 2014 and hosted Reddit-like forums with minimal moderation. It grew rapidly after Reddit added an anti-harassment policy and banned five subreddits that it said violated the rules, including its infamous r/fatpeoplehate forum.
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'Free Speech' Reddit Clone Voat Says It Will Shut Down on Christmas

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 24, 2020 @11:07AM (#60862696)
    There just aren't enough right-wing extremists out there to make it a viable venture, and with Trump being unceremoniously dumped into the dustbin of history it's not going to get any better. Shame because it's fun as hell to go in there and troll the shit out of people.
    • by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @11:09AM (#60862702)
      No, there are plenty of right-wing extremists, just not enough who know how to type.
      • by klipclop ( 6724090 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @11:28AM (#60862752)
        Or willing to pay for the service apparently. Lol
        • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @12:27PM (#60862920) Journal

          Or willing to pay for the service apparently. Lol

          Well the right wing generally claim to be pro free market. Looks like voat just got free marketed.

          • by jythie ( 914043 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @01:30PM (#60863114)
            Ah, but when the free market fails, it is always the fault of 'inferior' peoples upsetting the 'natural balance'. So they will probably chalk it up to 'cancel culture' or 'the jews' or some other reason that advertisers are not interested in funding them.
        • by Sniper98G ( 1078397 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @01:25PM (#60863102)

          If you are actually interested.

          The users of this site have been begging the admin to take their money for years. He has repeatedly refused to ask for or even except readily offered money. His partner had two donation drives before he departed the venture and that kept the site afloat till 2017 when it was announced the site was out of money, mostly because they were running on licenced .NET servers and paying a ton of money for them each month.

          After that a single person came forward to fund the site secretly. The users of the site also ran a volunteer effort to rewrite the site code in .NET Core and switch to all Linux servers to save money.

          That kept the site afloat until March of this year when apparently the funding stopped. Rather that tell anyone about this, the site admin just started paying for the site himself until now, when he announces he does not want to pay for it anymore. Users still begging to give him money.

          I think he just wants to be done with the site.

          • by HiThere ( 15173 )

            How many users? How reliable?

            My wild guess is that the costs of the bookkeeping and adhering to tax laws would be too much to justify the expected amount of donations. If you were correct, I'd expect that someone else would have offered to take the site over. (OTOH, I don't know anything about VOAT. I didn't know it existed before this article.)

            • by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

              I don't know if the current operator is the same guy that started it way back when, but I do know the original founder was Swiss and made a big deal about that being whose law he would follow when it came to matters of speech. This may be making it more difficult to take other peoples' money, because offshoring money to Switzerland tends to draw attention from government officials.

      • by JBrow ( 668684 ) <john DOT n DOT brow AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday December 24, 2020 @12:08PM (#60862862) Homepage
        They know how to type, the problem is their utter lack of critical thinking skills and the ability to debate the issues in an intelligent and thoughtful manner.
        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          You overrate rationality. Just about no human decisions are actually rationally justifiable. People can't even clearly state what goals they are trying to satisfy. They can feel them, but the can't verbalize them.

          Note that this doesn't make them wrong. There's a long evolutionary history behind us that isn't verbal, but was successful in leaving descendants. But it means that rational verbal arguments are a waste of everyone's times. Emotional appeals are much more successful. Rational arguments are

      • by Somervillain ( 4719341 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @01:23PM (#60863086)
        Agree or not with their positions, the alt-right view themselves as outsiders in society. They're unhappy with the way society is and the direction they view it going. Successful people don't have a lot of time and energy to complain about things that don't impact them directly...and let's face it, if you're upset about BLM or AOC or Socialism or the war on christmas or whatever is the rant du jour, I will bet money you are not directly impacted by either.

        The ugly truth is that there's people on 2 extremes, but most of us are in the center. We function in society. We hold jobs and pay our bills. We don't feel threatened by diversity, nor do we pat ourselves on the back when we embrace it. We don't look for the next ideological group to hate.

        As one of those who identify as a centrist, I don't have fucking time to get on twitter or parler and rant all day. I'm too busy going to work at a good job, paying my bills, raising my kids, and functioning in society. I am an ideal demographic. I have money. I have responsibilities and thus if you can reduce the burden of my responsibilities, I am happy to give you money. I have healthy interests. If you can sell me something to enhance the limited time I have for hobbies, I am happy to give you money. I and many like me are who the advertisers want to target.

        My job, my kids, my responsibilities, reduce my urges for anger and radical tendencies nor theories that the mainstream media/society is persecuting me. Let's be real. If you're spending all day on parler complaining about the nebulous left wing and pushing conspiracy theories, is life going well? Is your job going as well as you'd like? Are you happy with your life choices? Do you have a lot of money in your pocket you're ready to spend for new things?

        My Father In Law, in contrast, is retired. When he turns on Hannity at night, I notice how many ads are scams targeting seniors. How many "my pillows" can someone buy? How many buying gold scams can you buy into? Fox has good ratings and decent revenue, but there's only so much purchasing power for those living on social security or their retirement accounts....or those who hate the direction society is going in. It's not an infinite well of demand. Fox took many years to hone their business model. I am not surprised there is a limited amount of money to be made by going farther to the right and catering to those who feel that Reddit, Fox News, and Twitter are too liberal and constricting for their ideas.
        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          That said, you're describing your current state. What does the future hold? Aren't you worried about the world your kids will live in? What will college cost in a few years?

          I'm glad you're comfortable, but I think you're myopic. There are things you should be worrying about that you are just shrugging off. FWIW, I invested in solar panels for my house over a decade ago, when it was clearly a non-economic choice, because I wanted to solar industry to succeed. Now I'm worried that they aren't seriously

      • by thomn8r ( 635504 )

        No, there are plenty of right-wing extremists, just not enough who know how to type.

        Or read, for that matter

    • by crunchygranola ( 1954152 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @11:29AM (#60862762)

      Parler is bankrolled by the Mercers. Like many propaganda organs on the right it does not ever have to break-even much less make a profit.

      • Parler is bankrolled by the Mercers. Like many propaganda organs on the right it does not ever have to break-even much less make a profit.

        When did The New Republic last break even? The Nation? Jacobin mag?

        You act like this is something unique to the right. How much shit would die without left wing donations? Newsweek was sold off for $1 and debt, FFS.

    • by DrXym ( 126579 )
      Unless these services have a rich benefactor to keep it running they're either going to have to run ads or turn to a subscription service. The subscription service is a death warrant so advertising is the only option.

      But how many companies are going to be happy to advertise on a service associated with a platform espousing far right views? Certainly not mainstream corporations. I imagine the likes of Parler will attract the absolute dregs of ads that wouldn't look out of place on a pirate websites or whac

    • There just aren't enough right-wing extremists with money out there to make it a viable venture...

      Fixed it for ya!

    • Spoken like a True Anonymous Coward.

      You believe that you have a right to speak,
      and that others do not.

      Bad ideas should be countered by firm reason and discussion, ... in the light.

      Not allowed to fester in the dark.

    • Parler is about giving a forum to fake news, Voat was free speech in the more classic sense: less about politics, more about assholes. Parler isn't going anywhere, it has a purpose.
  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @12:08PM (#60862864) Homepage

    Why the repeated failures of alt-right alternatives to 'mainstream' internet media makes it look like there claims about the mainstream media being anti-conservative are totally false.

    That when they get exactly what they want, they hate it and would rather go to the mainstream media.

    Funny how that works.

    • The problem with alternative social media sites without censorship is that they are not just a haven for reasonable but unpopular opinions that have been banned from the mainstream outlets. They inevitable attract the raving far right and conspiracy idiots as well. And the vast majority of people who haven’t (yet) been censored are happy to stick to the mainstream media. So, every free speech platform is destined to turn into an alt-right nuthouse, that any sane advertiser will steer well clear of.
    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      I don't think it has anything to do with whether the far right is right or wrong and everything to do with the business viability of being a platform for unpopular opinions.

      One of the things I used to say to my business partner was that if the customer is always right then you'd sure as hell better be selective about who your customer is. You can't treat customers who cause a lot of disruption and don't spend much money the same as customers who are easy to deal with and have lots of money to spend.

      Faceboo

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Well, that *is* a decent website. And it worked with JavaScript totally blocked. So that's a bonus. Too bad it's not something I'd ever want to follow.

    • Why the repeated failures of alt-right alternatives to 'mainstream' internet media makes it look like there claims about the mainstream media being anti-conservative are totally false.

      That when they get exactly what they want, they hate it and would rather go to the mainstream media.

      Almost as if you're full of shit.

      Outside of Fox, right wing media is increasingly locked out of the ability to even do business thanks to payment processors banning them for "terms of service violations" that are never actually explained. There is no "free market" when the players collaborate to keep people from doing business that they don't like. If there really was a free market, when YouTube bans someone because their whiny SJW staff are offended by a channel, someone like Vimeo would jump at the chance

      • by noodler ( 724788 )

        Almost as if you're full of shit.

        Said the pile of cow manure...

        There is no "free market" when the players collaborate to keep people from doing business that they don't like. If there really was a free market, when YouTube bans someone because their whiny SJW staff are offended by a channel, someone like Vimeo would jump at the chance to get that business.

        What if Vimeo also doesn't want these people?
        A free market doesn't guarantee that someone will take your business. It means that every market party can make up their own damn mind about who they want to do business with and under what terms.
        So this is actually the free market in action. You're just butthurt that you're not being served by this market. But the market is free so you'll just have to take it up your pooper or else start your own company that serves your needs.

        we'll keep using Bitcoin to go around you shitty little weasels.

        That

  • by BAReFO0t ( 6240524 ) on Thursday December 24, 2020 @12:17PM (#60862890)

    Look, centralization always leads to dictatorship or some other downfall. It's a single point of failure... made out of a detonator fuse.

    Don't create "platforms". Create *protocols*!
    Ditto for "frameworks".

    You can still create a client and have that be like a platform, but when it dies, the ecosystem might already not care anymore. And nobody will ever be able to Gestapo... err, I mean "moderate" it.

    Then the only factor to its success is the right moderation.
    (Mainly making people believe it is the new hot thing that everybody uses, until they actually do.)

    • Don't create "platforms". Create *protocols*!

      I guess you also don't know the difference between a programmer and a user if you think that "protocols" are an alternative to "platforms".

      Here's a hint: free and open protocols exist that mirror all the proprietary protocols that underpin large platforms. I'll leave it as an exercise to you to determine why people prefer using a platform over battling with some protocol.

  • Okay, I will not be very "politically correct" here, but "clean" Internet has won, and "free" Internet had lost today.

    Nobody* wants to pay for ad space on "free" (read wild) content. When Coca Cola comes with $100 million advertising budget, they want to target "clean" sites. They "don't want to be associated" with other content. Same with users. They don't want to see ads from "questionable" vendors.

    Back in the "wild west" days of the Internet (AltaVista times), I would have to disable all images while bro

    • But.... this is just the 'free market' in operation.

      Advertisers choose where they spend -- surely you're not advocating forcing them to spend on sites you approve of but which they don't?

      Likewise with site funding -- if your views aren't popular with the mass market, you're not going to attract mass funding -- this is true for 'left/right' politics and other areas which divide people.

      Free market capitalism works right up to the point where it doesn't align with personal or societal viewpoints.

      I do agree wi

      • I'd rather advertisers were told "You have no choice".

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        No, there are MANY situations where "Free Market Capitalism" doesn't work at all. And many where it doesn't work well.

        The places where it works well have several characteristics:
        1) a decision doesn't need to be made *RIGHT NOW*. (Many medical situations fail this test.)
        2) the parties making the decision have full information. (Many purchasing decisions fail this test.)
        3) there is a fair balance of obligations between the purchaser and the vendor. (Fair is a notoriously difficult thing to define.)

        There m

    • Okay, I will not be very "politically correct" here, but "clean" Internet has won, and "free" Internet had lost today.

      Thank god. The free internet was only good before it became a platform for hate and bile. If you want to live in an open sewer go your hardest. I prefer to live in a house under a set of rules.

      • I find your ideas offensive, you would be tyrant thug. I demand that you be censored, and take your hate and bile for free speech and its proponents to some disgusting place where only you and your ilk are allowed.

        • I find your ideas offensive

          The thing is *your* opinion is completely irrelevant. The concepts we are discussing here is societal norms, the same norms that ultimately underpin the laws that legally bind us to be functioning members of society.

          If you deem my perfectly normal ideas offensive, chances are you're not a happy functioning member of society, and that's okay, go make your own society out of publics eye.

          • Whooosh!

            The problem is that you are advocating banning or silencing people based on their "hate" and "bile" - purely subjective terms. You, and your views, can just as easily fall into those categories; it all depends on who is allowed to define what falls into those categories.

            If you are unwilling to abide by those rules if I am the one that makes the determination of what is or isn't "hate" or "bile", then the truth is that you don't want to be free of those things, you just want the power to enforce you

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        That depends on the rules. There are many sets of rules that are worse than anarchy.

    • Voat shutting down is not an example of what you're describing. You can still put up your website with fake news or vitriolic rants, and have it indexed on AltaVista (Sort of. It's just Yahoo now [altavista.com], but Yahoo is of the same era as AltaVista. I think it counts.). ... I was about to point out a difference here, but there really isn't one. The only new thing is that you have competition from big commercial entities. No one was going to read your rant-filled website before, and nowadays that's still true.

      Every
  • Makes me wonder, are most of these people bots and trolls or are all these self proclaimed open minded people *really* this binary and one sided?

    I would like to submit a piece of advice to any who will listen: completely detach from all social media. You are being manipulated and your personality is being altered to suite multiple agenda's. This applies to all "sides".

    Used to consider myself a pretty progressive liberal...but the last 4 years has convinced me nuance has been lost in discussion from the side

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      Well, "The intellectuals" were always given to "intellectual violence" against those they disliked. Teller could rarely give an open speech without attempts to shout him down. The nuance came in reasoned printed articles. (Even there it was often absent.) And at that time the "Right" also had it's nuanced articles with reasoned points. You don't need to agree with them to notice that they are reasoned and nuanced. Even then people generally only saw the nuanced articles on the side they supported.

      Wha

      • Shouldn't be that hard to silence Teller.
        Penn does all the talking anyway.

      • "Current communication favors short, easily grasped, statements"

        In other words, "soundbites". This is how shit starts, with people latching on to sound bites without delving into the whole truth.

        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          "Soundbite" is the essential idea, but it's missing parts. E.g., in a video the visual images are a part of the message. Easily grasped, but hard to verbalize. There are other pieces, e.g. background music, various lighting, but especially how you frame the images.

          Much of this "easily grasped message" is hard to verbalize, so difficult to criticize, but it still carries emotional impact.

  • Sounds like the market has spoken.
  • Yeah, what Trump was against when the election did not go his way.

    In fact, he wanted to stop the election months before it happened.

    Anybody who still thinks Trump is about democracy is suffering a severe disconnect from reality.

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