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Firefox Mozilla

Mozilla Is Working On a Firefox Design Refresh (ghacks.net) 246

Mozilla is "investigating" a design refresh for its Firefox browser. Ghacks reports that the refresh is referred to internally as "Photon." Information about the design refresh is limited at this point in time. Mozilla created a meta bug on Bugzilla as a reference to keep track of the changes. While there are not any mockups or screenshots posted on the site, the names of the bugs provide information on the elements that will get a refresh. These are:

- The Firefox address bar and tabs bar.
- The main Firefox menu.
- Infobars.
- Doorhangers.
- Context Menus.
- Modals.
Most user interface elements are listed in the meta bug. Mozilla plans to release the new design in Firefox 89; the browser is scheduled for a mid-2021 release. Its release date is set to May 18, 2021...

[Developer/Firefox extension author] Sören Hentzschel revealed that he saw some of the Firefox Proton mockups... He notes that Firefox will look more modern when the designs land and that Mozilla plans to introduce useful improvements, especially in regards to the user experience. Hentzschel mentions two examples of potential improvements to the user experience: a mockup that displays vertical tabs in a compact mode, and another that shows the grouping of tabs on the tab bar.

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Mozilla Is Working On a Firefox Design Refresh

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  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @03:23AM (#60889866)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Presence Eternal ( 56763 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @03:30AM (#60889874)

      I'm happy with Firefox, and all it took was about fifty different tweaks, ten extensions, and the creation of a custom css file that they want to drop support for.

    • by Anne Thwacks ( 531696 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @04:36AM (#60890004)
      useful improvements, especially in regards to the user experience

      Be afraid, be very afraid ...

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:45AM (#60890142) Homepage Journal

        Now is your chance. Get in there and submit some comments. Subscribe to the meta bug and you will be notified of proposed changes so that you can give them your opinion.

        • by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @06:46AM (#60890292)

          Now is your chance. Get in there and submit some comments.

          What could possibly make you believe the hacks at Mozilla will listen to a single word anyone puts in a comment? While the saying, "Past performance is no guarantee of future performance" applies to mutual funds, in this case it most definitely applies to Mozilla. They have deliberately gone out of their way to ignore user comments, to ignore user requests, to ignore user concerns.

          As others have said, their "modern" design will be a total shit fest, just like Chrome and Edge. Options will either be buried in obscure places, hidden from the user, or totally absent. Instead of a nice, simple, readily available menu bar across the top, we'll be subjected to the shit show of a vertical ellipsis where the most important items are relegated to the bottom of the list instead of placed at the top. Forget being able to see anything, Mozilla will make things as transparent as possible, with the thinnest edges possible so you can't find them unless you happen to find one of two pixels which will magically make it appear. Because having a visible, easily graspable scroll bar is so yesterday. Who wants to see something so neolithic?

          Here's one for you, I don't want suggestions for either web sites or searches when I type in the address bar. I know exactly what I want and I will go there. I have turned off "suggestions" in the options. What happens when I type in the address bar? It types the exact same thing I'm typing as if it's trying to give suggestions. Under what circumstance should I see anything if I told the browser not to give me suggestions?

          The list goes on what a joke Firefox has become, but using those other two pieces of spyware is worse yet. However, absolutely, positively guaranteed this redesign will take us down that same route: a nightmare scenario of people who have no business programming Hello world let alone a browser shoving the latest and greatest eye candy onto the masses while ignoring basic functionality and usability.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @09:57AM (#60890684) Homepage Journal

            I've had some positive experiences with feedback before. Not always but you can't expect to always get what you want. I've been trying to contribute to the Android version in particular because it's what's blocking me from switching to Firefox desktop.

            It is open source too, you can contribute your own UI fixes.

            Or just throw your hands up and switch to Chrome or a Chrome derivative. Because that's the only real choice, all the Firefox forks have stagnated and died because it's too much work to maintain them.

        • Why would I want to do that for an infinitesimal chance of steering the decision towards something that makes sense to me? It is THEIR work to make good choices, not mine. I use Firefox as my only browser since it came out, and each time it's a struggle to disable all the new "features" and make it look like it was at the beginning. If they change too much, I'll explore alternatives, surely not go argue on a bugtracker....
          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            If you don't give feedback it's hard for them to guess what you want.

            It might be worth it just to explore your own ideas as well. Go through the UI and think about each part and how you use it, and what the ideal would be. The first Firefox UI was far from perfect.

        • ... so that you can give them your opinion. ... --- Do you really think user opinions have any worth to Mozilla? History seems to indicate otherwise.
          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:03AM (#60890704) Homepage Journal

            A lot of their decision making seems to be driven by telemetry... Which old timers tend to turn off.

            Explaining why things are a problem does get productive responses in my experience, at least sometimes. What tends not to work is "I don't like this" with no explanation and no interest in even trying to understand it or get the supposed benefits of it.

            • by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:18AM (#60890762)

              A lot of their decision making seems to be driven by telemetry... Which old timers tend to turn off.

              Explaining why things are a problem does get productive responses in my experience, at least sometimes. What tends not to work is "I don't like this" with no explanation and no interest in even trying to understand it or get the supposed benefits of it.

              ...A lot of their decision making seems to be driven by telemetry... ... --- If that is correct, and I doubt it is, then Mozilla seems to purposefully ignoring a swath of their user base. Having said that, I would say that more new "features" seem to arise from a user-antagonistic form over function design team, who care more about how things look than how well they work. I doubt if any user input would change their view of what Firefox should be. Just look at the shoddy manner in which the Mozilla developers have treated the add-in contributors with the ever-changing API and little to no support. Sorry, I don't buy what you're selling.

              • If that is correct, and I doubt it is, then Mozilla seems to purposefully ignoring a swath of their user base.

                I remember reading years ago a comment from a Mozilla developer saying that they indeed takes as their main input telemetry. They keep tabs on what user click the most, and try to bring those parts to the forefront, reduce how many clicks are needed to achieve whatever the related workflow is, and move out of sight things they rarely see people using.

                Therefore, when power users disable Firefox telemetry in name of privacy, their privacy is indeed respected: their advanced workflows are never recorded, their

      • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @10:49AM (#60890852) Journal

        The Mozilla team should ask Dice about how a "design refresh" might go over.

        Remember "Slashdot Tries something new, audience responds"?

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:00AM (#60890062)

      ....He notes that Firefox will look more modern when the designs land

      "More modern" is the giant red flag. Whenever some uses those words in connection with the appearance of ... anything ... it's a guarantee that it's going to be a horrendously ugly fucked up mess.

      They have already successfully driven Firefox's market share into single digits, but apparently that isn't enough. The dumbfucks at Mozilla are determined to kill Firefox completely, even if they have to resort to a straegy of death by a thousand cuts.

      "But you just don't like change"

      Damn straight. The web browser is a solved problem. Fix bugs that genuinely need to be fixed, and that's it. Period. The End. Full Stop.

      • I think the browser UI can be approved massively. Surprisingly, precisely because of what you said. Interpreted a bit different: It is a dead end.

        No improvement can happen of you see it inside of the "browser", "monolithic application" and "desktop" boxes. Mostly the first one.

        But if see it as a set of modules ... mainly a virtual machine (engine), OS platform (HTML5), layout engine (engine), multiple document formats, a process manager (tabs/engine), task bar (tabs), network file system (URLs), sync manage

      • ... "More modern" is the giant red flag. ... --- Yup. Low contrast text, the contrast being so low it is barely readable. That is the modern design of late.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • When I took my user interface design back in 2000, on our first day the teacher had this great saying written on the board: (that I'm sure can't be used today because it will trigger someone somehow)

        "If you can't train a monkey to use it, you can't train a human to use it"

        He then spent 30 minutes talking about the early space program, where they literally did exactly that. They had to train monkeys to use buttons, levers and switches to test cognitive ability in space since they had no idea what space would

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Sure they can. They mentioned that danger word, "modern," which:

      • reduces contrast and readability;
      • puts single pixel borders on windows so they're almost impossible to grab and resize on high resolution screens;
      • hides buttons in backgrounds so nothing is discoverable.

      This might be the final nail in Firefox's coffin.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by hamera3634 ( 7592810 )

      Yes they can, because the designers likely won't accept any feedback, because any negative feedback is seen as a threat to their safety - it's likely they are all diversity hires. If it's happening at Google, well it's likely the same at Mozilla.

      Google is getting left behind due to horrible UI/UX https://news.ycombinator.com/i... [ycombinator.com]

      Quoting:

      anonygler 19 days ago

      As a former Googler, Google has been utterly hostile to self critcism on this front. Responses to any criticism of Google's UI falls in the foll

      • I'd say, dear Mozilla... maybe, if you are shit, you SHOULD feel unsafe in your views, and feel motivared to improve them?

        Just, you know, an idea from the human dimension. ;)

        (Just like we should not protect our children from everything, but give them the ability to protect themselves! Like not being so insecure that grown men can get "offended" as if they were still in puberty or a hairy-chest-thumping mediterranean Mafia stooge. ^^)

    • They'll do the same they just did for the mobile version: 6 months of announcements, then they move the address bar to the bottom and drop support for all extensions but 7. Memory and cpu hunger stay the same
    • by gl4ss ( 559668 )

      of course they can. but they have design experts on the team and they have to come up with something different. I think they'll add a big circle on the lower _left_ corner to open new tabs and put the address bar on the left side rotated 70 degrees and overlaid with web content.... tabs are selected then in a different window. they'll call this the soulpresentor mode.

      also while doing it break extensions again because why not.

  • by hamera3634 ( 7592810 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @03:29AM (#60889872)
    So my expectation is that it's going to be even more dumbed down:

    * designed for the lowest common denominator of user, might as well be a childrens' web browser
    * lower contrast text
    * more whitespace ('negative space')
    * more frequent and slower animations
    * the ability to customize with userChrome/userContent.css will be disabled irreversably

    This is what happens when you no longer hire UX staff based on merit.
    • That's what happens when you apply Postmodernism to UI design. Under this philosophy, the designers no longer believe there is an objective standard of beauty. Ugly and beautiful are meaningless terms. So therefore they can get away with producing the most awful garbage, because to them it doesn't matter. Explains everything that has happened - it started at Google (with Material Design), one of the 'worst' companies when it comes to this kind of ideology, then spread all across the industry like a cancer.
    • You forgot:

      * Yet another implementation of the task switcher and bookmark metaphors on top.
      * Moar inner platform effect! Because moar!
      * Removal of all add-ons (yet again).
      * Even fewer features.
      * And two container ships worth of ktichen sinks, to close the kitchen sink gap to Google Chrome.

      • The arrogance of the designers just shows in how condescending they are towards the users. By treating the user as stupid, unable to make decisions for themselves, they have to be 'forced' to use an interface that nobody wants... Literally as if they are toddlers.
    • by sinij ( 911942 )

      * designed for the lowest common denominator of user, might as well be a childrens' web browser

      That would be actually a useful improvement over what they have right now, as there would be a clear target audience and a set of design parameters and performance goals.

  • Can I haz (Score:4, Funny)

    by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @03:35AM (#60889882)
    Can I haz a design that isn't migraine or RSI inducing?
  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @03:42AM (#60889898)

    Last time they decided to reinvent the wheel with Firefox, (Webex) they instantly deprecated half the useful plugins add-ons for that browser. Not to mention, the UI turned from not terribly great to hateful.

    But... if you're committed enough, you get used to anything. I stuck with Firefox, and eventually I got used to the current UI. And most of the good add-ons are back - either adapted or replaced.

    Can PUH-LEEZE leave Firefox the fuck alone Mozilla? I won't be committed twice...

    • > they instantly deprecated half the useful plugins add-ons for that browser.

      I run an old version of Firefox on my phone because of this, so another new version where add-ons are still deprecated has limited interest for me.

    • They killed add-ons again on Android, with Daylight.
      Add-on search is still gone, and only a handful of pre-approved addons are allowed.

      I guess now third time's the charm ... for obliterative suicide.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I like the new UI, the only real issue I have with it is the annoying "email" options on the context menus. Other than that it's fine. What annoys you about it?

    • And so do we get used it it when our glasses get filthy. The brain filters out the dirt from your vision. But once you clean them you're shocked to see how much better your vision has just gotten... Shows you how we can all adapt to a dire situation but only when things are better do we realize what awful circumstances we were tolerating.
  • by greytree ( 7124971 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @04:04AM (#60889924)

    - BUTTONS must look like BUTTONS
      - ENTRY FIELDS must look like ENTRY FIELDS
      - STATIC TEXT must look like STATIC TEXT
      - RIGHT CLICK must bring up a contect menu - EVERYWHERE
      - Actions on BUTTONS must ALSO be in the MAIN MENU, not either/or.

    • Text that is entered aligned in an entry field must remain aligned when submitted.

    • Were we're going, kid, we won't need any ... widgets.

      *clicks*

      user@workstation:~ # _

    • by dave-man ( 119245 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @04:58AM (#60890058)

      > Actions on BUTTONS must ALSO be in the MAIN MENU, not either/or. ... plus keyboard shortcuts.

    • - BUTTONS must look like BUTTONS - ENTRY FIELDS must look like ENTRY FIELDS - STATIC TEXT must look like STATIC TEXT - RIGHT CLICK must bring up a contect menu - EVERYWHERE - Actions on BUTTONS must ALSO be in the MAIN MENU, not either/or.

      It's good that you SPEAK UP on the matter of FUNCTIONALITY, but I doubt those squealing with excitement over the new emoji menu and Facebook buttons can HEAR YOU.

      • And who cares about those?
        If you actually speak to people, most of those are imaginary anyway. And if real, then much towned down and easily peer-pressured into switching to a more sophisticated image of themselves. Hell, many are only like that because we peer-pressured them *into* it with our prejudices. Especially children.

    • Forgot one:
        - ALL TEXT must be SELECT,COPY-able.

  • I didn't think there was anything left to ruin after Firefox Daylight.

    • Take a look at all the recent Play store reviews:

      https://play.google.com/store/... [google.com]

      Incredible: 1 star, 2 stars, 1 star, 1 star, 1 star, 1 star, 1 star, 3 stars
      Hehehehehehehe...

      So much for all your 'delightful' interfaces, UXtards....
      • UXtards, I think the only one being 'delighted' by these designs is yourself, and the people hiring you looking at your portfolios.
  • by idontusenumbers ( 1367883 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @04:26AM (#60889984)

    I almost lolled when I read the headline. I can count the number of times I liked the 'visual refresh' the mozilla team implemented on zero hands. Every time it's worse. Every time I have to seek out extensions, secret configs, XUL/CSS hacks to undo it. Visual refreshes are like make-work jobs that solved problems no one has.

    • Visual refreshes are like make-work jobs that solved problems no one has.

      I agree. Blame the rather pointless competition in this space. After all, one can't have a 2021 browser that still *looks* like a 2020 browser. You will be viewed as everything from unfashionable to unpatched.

      This is also why Apple feels the need to release a new iPhone model every single year. Hell, they might as well start adopting the year model trend that cars have. Might be a little easier to sell the "2030 iPhone Premium" vs. the "iPhone 19s Pro XS Max Plus Force" or whatever the hell marketing w

  • don't be "clever" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rastos1 ( 601318 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:29AM (#60890108)

    "The only thing more annoying than a computer is a computer that tries to be helpful."

    Please, for the sake of sanity, include a mode where an address bar is an address bar. No more, no less. Just a plain input field that allows me to enter an URL and it shows an URL. That's all I ask for.

    • Or you could just leave the combi bar or omni bar or whatever they call it as is. I mean somehow the entire world actually uses it just fine except for the high IQ people here on Slashdot.

  • by Dracos ( 107777 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:29AM (#60890110)

    You do this every year or two, and the UI always gets worse. I say this as someone who have been using Mozilla/5.0 as my primary browser since Milestone 18, long before Firefox was even a thing.

    Firefox 79 on Android is a chore to use because half the browser UI elements simply disappeared. Back, forward, reload/stop, bookmarks bar, tab bar... all gone. Every basic browser task requires more steps than before.

    Stop fucking with the browser UI. If Mozilla wanted to lure users back (and their revenues up), they would reverse course on everything they're doing. Firefox used to be the power-user's browser, now its only distinction is "the one not based on Chrome".

  • by mapkinase ( 958129 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @05:57AM (#60890168) Homepage Journal

    Mozilla created a meta bug on Bugzilla

    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/s... [mozilla.org]

    Type:task

    It's a "ticket" tracking system, not a bug tracking system.

    • I get you, and partially agree, but . . .
      It's normal, in software development nowadays, to just call everything a bug, including tasks, ideas, proposals, etc. As long as it's in the "bug tracker"
      Because let's be frank: A software defect is not an insect either.
      And it is not a train ticket of receipt or whatever "ticket" means here, either. :)

  • Well people are loving their updates, and modern look to their mobile browser. All the one star reviews clearly mean it's time to move those ideas to the desktop version and break those things on desktop too.
  • by Jemm ( 747958 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @08:01AM (#60890458)
    Seems like every time a "designer" gets their hands on a product they want to make it low contrast flat and grey. The current design while not beautiful is at least high contrast enough for those with less than 2020 vision.
  • about 20 versions to when firefox was like palemoon is now, and START OVER, firefox was meant to be a lightweight yet fully functional browser and they bloated it up with gobs of features i sure dont want or need, i dont need to backup my bookmarks or passwords on somebody's cloud because i dont trust it, i rather keep that on my own harddrive or usb thumbdrive,
  • Great! (Score:4, Funny)

    by johannesg ( 664142 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @08:23AM (#60890514)

    My proposals:

    1. Completely do away with using different colors for different things. The interface should be uniform grey. Text should be grey (818080) on grey (808080). In particular, make sure scrollbars are completely free of all contrast. Oh wait, they already are...

    2. Don't label any buttons. Use incomprehensible pictograms for everything. Oh wait, they already did.

    3. Don't use any standard controls. They just 'confuse' people.

    4. Put all controls (including the address bar and the go back button) behind a single-pixel dropdown menu.

    5. Remove the 'extensions' mechanism.

    6. Remove all the about: pages. They are just for experts anyway.

    7. Remove all configurability so nobody can change the layout from their factory defaults.

    8. Replace the browser engine with the one used by Chrome, so we are ensured compatibility across all browsers.

    • mod parent up (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bussdriver ( 620565 ) on Sunday January 03, 2021 @11:01AM (#60890874)

      Seriously, they need to fire their UI / UX people; hire just a few psychologists. Not only will they maybe come up with something new that works better instead of baseless copycat work.... but they might be able to do something about the poor management.

  • Please keep the bookmarks side bar.

    I'm worried that with Chrome not having a similar feature, Mozilla will drop it.

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