Mark Zuckerberg Wants Commuting Replaced with VR/AR (ibtimes.co.in) 127
Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg wants commuting to work replaced with VR/AR telecommuting. Zuckerberg made the suggestion on a talkshow on Clubhouse, reports The International Business Times:
"One of the things that [VR] will unlock is the ability to live anywhere you want and be present in another place and really feel like you are there," the Facebook CEO said."It is going to unlock a lot of economic opportunity because people will be able to live where they want and increasingly work where they want and kind of teleport into place. I am also pretty optimistic about the impact on climate, in reducing the amount of commuting that people have to do. I think the advance in electric cars in reducing emissions is great and exciting, but I tell my team that it is easier to move bits of atoms around so we should be teleporting, not driving...."
Zuckerberg suggested a combination of both VR and AR technologies to achieve the dream of teleportation... Zuckerberg said the progress is steady at his labs on foundational technologies that will revolutionize the future of travel with the help of both VR and AR. "There is getting all the graphics and visual systems to really feel like you are immersed in the space. There's a long path of technology that needs to get done to kind of get that to be as realistic as you would want on VR," he said.
Business Insider notes the three-week-old talkshow — the same one visited by Elon Musk — is hosted by a Facebook employee and her VC husband, and is "focused on optimism... Guests on the show talk about future innovations without skepticism... Unlike traditional interviewers, Krishnan and Ramamurthy, as well as their guests, do not appear to push back against the ideas discussed, instead letting them flow freely."
CNET notes the appearance drew a skeptical response on Twitter from Ellen Pao, former CEO of social media company Reddit. "FB execs going on Clubhouse shows CH is all about tight control over messaging and avoiding hard questions and accountability."
Zuckerberg summarized his position with seven words. "We should be teleporting, not transporting, ourselves."
Zuckerberg suggested a combination of both VR and AR technologies to achieve the dream of teleportation... Zuckerberg said the progress is steady at his labs on foundational technologies that will revolutionize the future of travel with the help of both VR and AR. "There is getting all the graphics and visual systems to really feel like you are immersed in the space. There's a long path of technology that needs to get done to kind of get that to be as realistic as you would want on VR," he said.
Business Insider notes the three-week-old talkshow — the same one visited by Elon Musk — is hosted by a Facebook employee and her VC husband, and is "focused on optimism... Guests on the show talk about future innovations without skepticism... Unlike traditional interviewers, Krishnan and Ramamurthy, as well as their guests, do not appear to push back against the ideas discussed, instead letting them flow freely."
CNET notes the appearance drew a skeptical response on Twitter from Ellen Pao, former CEO of social media company Reddit. "FB execs going on Clubhouse shows CH is all about tight control over messaging and avoiding hard questions and accountability."
Zuckerberg summarized his position with seven words. "We should be teleporting, not transporting, ourselves."
Most cannot afford VR gear (Score:5, Insightful)
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A tel-presence is never going to work
According to TFS, Ellen Pao agrees with you. So you're probably wrong.
people who actually work for a living eg builders, factory workers. etc
1. Most employees do not do physical work that requires their presence.
2. Even work the requires some manipulation of physical reality can often be done with intelligent waldos.
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Most people prefer to be with people, if they are not with people, they will go fucking nuts.
Only a small minority of people are introverts, those who prefer to work alone, not because being with people is so bad but being alone is so much easier. Those people should not be coming up with solutions that suit them and try to force them on extroverts, people who psychologically have to be with people.
Extroverts brains are wired the way they are, introvert brains are wired the way they are. Extroverts tried t
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"Most people prefer to be with people, if they are not with people, they will go fucking nuts."
Absolutely wrong. The only reason you believe they go nuts, is because this Pandemic has shown what happens when you go TOO FAR into isolation for year-long times. This pandemic has made it so that you are punished for going outside unless you're doing something essential. That's an additional stress factor. Wearing masks, is an additional stress factor. Not being familiar with the tech is a stress factor.
NASA has
A survey of Slashdot readers (Score:2)
Shows that 95% of them would rather not ever see another human...
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You are so fucking illogical it's almost painful to read your screed. Did it not occur to you even once that perhaps astronauts which are deemed psychologically fit to remain in space for long periods are introverts?
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Did it not occur to you even once that perhaps astronauts which are deemed psychologically fit to remain in space for long periods are introverts?
"Submariners: 150 men go down, 75 couples come up."
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2. Even work the requires some manipulation of physical reality can often be done with intelligent waldos.
Intelligent waldos are even harder to find.
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So why would I want to feel like I'm in my work office?
On top of that, the idea of wearing a VR headset 8 hours a day probably seems enjoyable to a robotic lizard who lacks a human pulse like say Zuckerberg, but the rest of us would suffer extreme discomfo
Re:Most cannot afford VR gear (Score:4, Funny)
I largely agree with what you said, but you stepped over the line when you blithely insulted robotic lizards like that. Please be more respectful in the future.
Re: Most cannot afford VR gear (Score:1)
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A tel-presence is never going to work for people who actually work for a living eg builders, factory workers. etc
Well, I'm not sure I agree with your "people who actually work for living." That said...
One word: Telepresence robots.
If the argument is that there needs to be a human being on the other end of that nail-gun or assembling that cable, why not a robot controlled by a human being?
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Every piece of equipment that comes in for repair at my work comes from a different individual or business. Sometimes the gear is packed in old Amazon boxes. Sometimes it's in a tractor oil carton with no padding at all. Sometimes dudes carry it in in person.
The equipment can be anything from 1-30 years old. It sometimes is something I've never seen before and have no schematics for. Sometimes it's something from John Deere that I have to reverse engineer to fix at all.
No, a robot isn't going to cut it
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Good for you.
I log in in the morning after interacting with my wife (who sits a few ft from me) and my pets. Maybe my kids some day. The idea that I spend most of my waking hours servicing other people rather than being with my family seems like a sad sad dystopia.
I pity people who don't sit at their own desk and home; only interacting with others when they choose.
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VR gear would pay for itself in terms of reduced gasoline, car maintenance and parking fairly quickly. The average commute in the USA is supposed to be 16 miles each way. Assuming 20 miles per gallon, and using yesterday's average gasoline price of $2.46, we get about $4 per day in gasoline costs, not counting maintenance and parking. An Oculus Quest is $300, or 75 commuting days' worth of gasoline. Going for a Valve Index would be $1000, or 250 commuting days, plus a good-enough PC if you don't already hav
Re:Most cannot afford VR gear (Score:5, Insightful)
Bullshit assumption of VR, a $10 usb cam with microphone is all that is needed for online meetings, I've been doing that for almost a year now.
There is zero need to claim some unnecessary $X VR set is going to do anything or solves any problem.
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You clearly don't work in marketing or advertising.
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There is zero need to claim some unnecessary $X VR set is going to do anything or solves any problem.
Wrong! When your the CEO of a company that paid $2.3 billion to buy a company that produces VR hardware, you have great need to claim VR headsets are necessary. However Zuckerberg is no Elon Musk.
In March 2014, Facebook, Inc. acquired Oculus for US$2.3 billion in cash and stock. Shortly afterwards, Oculus VR moved to Menlo Park, where Facebook headquarters are.
There's a problem you're not thinking of (Score:3)
The investors needed to meet in person to read the bosses body language and gauge if they were being ripped off. You can't do that with a $10 USB cam. Not sure if you can do it with VR, but that's the problem they're trying to solve anyway.
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Communication is definitely lacking with even a good webcam. For one, there's hand-gestures, even facial expressions that get lost.
It depends on what your'e discussing. A rigorous whiteboard session where algorithms are discussed is definitely harder. Not impossible, but harder.
VR (with low-latency internet) would solve this.
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Its is a toy for the rich. A tel-presence is never going to work for people who actually work for a living eg builders, factory workers. etc
30 - 40 years from now, most of those kinds of jobs, will be done with automation.
This, is merely a tool to enable human employment in the future. We will work at virtual companies making virtual products, which will align rather well with the already delusional value in the virtual stock market.
No idea what currency we'll be paid in. Depends on what survives.
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AR more likely and the reason is in the name. Now what is it builders and factory workers deal with every day? That's right the "R" in AR.*
*Same with MR as well.
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No, but it replaces the offices, which could then be turned back into light-industry.
Re: Most cannot afford VR gear (Score:2)
People who design those things are workers too, and they can do their job remotely.
Partial (Score:2)
Re: Most cannot afford VR gear (Score:2)
Beside the workers I mentioned in my previous comment it the future machines will be operable remotely. For example there is no reason a crane operator needs to sit on top of the crane (a dangerous job btw). The crane can be operated remotely in VR, of course it will have to be on site so thereâ(TM)s no lag. Other VR jobs of the future include autonomous taxi fleet monitoring and assistance. Hazardous robot operation etc. and thatâ(TM)s not including all the military jobs like VR pilot.
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Not supported by even a cursory glance at some facts. VR headsets are a few hundred dollars. The smartphone market (more expensive than a VR headset) is not "toys for the rich"
(/rant on) We have long since passed the point where "making things" is the only "actual work". In fact it is everyones best interests for work to be not making things, since we have now (by many measures) passed the point of sustainable consumption of the worlds resources: "Thus in 2002, humanity’s Ecological Footprint exceede
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You're saying 2 different things. A farmer will possibly not be using VR gear for telepresence, but that doesn't mean they are not rich. Zuck's text is full of shit of course, as usual, and is obviously aimed for Crapulus VR sales
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Cost is not significant. Assuming the tech would be in line with their current generation on cost, then $300. In ordinary times, I would spend that much on gasoline alone within 4 months.
A point can be made about a lot of hands-on jobs not being viable, and it either being:
-Insufficient replacement for in-person interaction
-Overkill for remote work (versus boring old monitor and camera).
I did participate in a couple meetings in VR early on in a gimmicky way, and I did enjoy using an avatar instead of my re
Are companies going to subsidise the bandwidth? (Score:2)
While I agree that the goals to reduce commuting and living-density are good, it forces the employee to pay for something the company needs to run. So is MZ subsidizing the internet connections for this high-bandwidth VR experience for his employees?
Will employees have to get multi-homed connections to guarantee their presence at work since they now live too far away to drive? And if this is to be "the way people work", then will the monopolies be lifted at the local level to permit competition betwee
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it forces the employee to pay for something the company needs to run.
I'd rather pay for a better computer than pay for gasoline to commute.
So is MZ subsidizing the internet connections for this high-bandwidth VR experience for his employees?
VR works best at 50 Mbps. The minimum tier in my area is 100 MBit. So I will pay $0 extra. I can afford that.
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Good point about the savings on gas. There would be other savings too.
But if a house has three full-time employees living under one roof (a very real possibility), then the price does start to go up. And so does the risk of a single-homed internet connection.
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That house used to need 3 cars for each employee to get to work. Now they probably only need 1 car for groceries. Maybe a second like a van for family trips -- that would previously have eaten gas.
So you replace at least one ~10k car with a ~3k VR headset and an extra ~50/mo in internet tier costs.
You can also tell your insurance you're driving a shit ton less (which I did). The insurance premium alone for 2 cars vs 3 and driving next to 0 miles on one of those car is probably more than your additional inte
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1) Buying a home outside of a metro area and VR Commuting would save the average worker like $200,000 in home expenses so they can pick up a $50 unlimited bandwidth charge. Do companies pay for your gas? Do companies pay for your clothes? Do companies pay for your lunch?
2) Many companies do pay for cell phones, laptops and data plans for mobile devices so probably the answer is actually "yes" even though I would happily put a couple pennies from my cheaper home pricing to fiber internet.
3) Fast low latenc
Not Today (Score:3, Funny)
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Why??? (Score:3)
Why would I want to use AR or VR to telecommute? I use a computer to work. A VPN (or even just secure file transfer capability) is sufficient. I barely find the video part of video conferencing tolerable, why would I want to spend more time recreating a different environment??
I also find that VR glasses produce eyestrain after a while.
The scariest part was his takeaway from Google Glass was that the problem was it was too obviously on people's faces and that's why people didn't like it. He wants to do the same fucking thing with fake glasses that aren't obvious. Keep your fucking spyware virtual, bitch.
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I don't telecommute, but my boss decided to hold weekly meetings over Teams instead of gathering everybody up in one meeting room. COVID-sensible I guess.
The problem is, whenever I do video conferences for more than 10 minutes, I get a splitting headache. There's something about the audio, and some people having properly adjusted mikes and others barely audible, and switching from one to the other all the time without warning, and people trying to have a 2-way chat with 2 seconds of delay... It's nothing li
Re:Why??? (Score:4, Insightful)
You're doing something wrong.
Audio equalizing can be done in software.
Even when I talk to people on other continents, there is no noticeable lag. A two-second lag should only happen when talking to people beyond lunar orbit.
You should not generalize from your broken misconfigured implementation.
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Whiners always be whining.
They don't want their problems solving. They want to be heard by everyone.
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Audio equalizing can be done in software.
Sure, but when your conferencing sw doesn't do it, you're SOL.
Even when I talk to people on other continents, there is no noticeable lag.
Lucky you. I've had many meetings in the past year (using several different systems, with participants in a 50-km radius) where at least one participant uses his laptop speakers and mic instead of a headset. This gives an instant demonstration of how much lag there is, as you'll hear yourself back with the roundtrip delay. I haven't had a 2-second lag yet, but in every instance there is enough of a delay that speaking becomes almost impossible.
An
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Audio equalizing can be done in software.
Can software also get rid of the glitches, aliasing, compression artifacts, and other things that shouldn't be a problem, but are simply a matter of life when dealing with network streaming?
It reminds me of when LCDs started showing up on the market, and they gave me a horrible headache. People told me I was nuts because LCDs don't flicker like CRTs, so I must just be making shit up. Turns out, low viewing angles on TN panels meant my left eye and right eye were seeing slightly different images, and that
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The problem is, whenever I do video conferences for more than 10 minutes, I get a splitting headache.
I get a splitting headache whenever I have to video conference work colleagues for *any* length of time.
Don't think it's got anything to do with technology though...
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Why would I want to use AR or VR to telecommute? I use a computer to work. A VPN (or even just secure file transfer capability) is sufficient. I barely find the video part of video conferencing tolerable, why would I want to spend more time recreating a different environment??
Mark has crap he'd like to sell you, plus people like to talk grandiose bullshit so they can be seen as visionaries. I've worked at a fully remote company for over a decade with people from across the globe, when we started we just used SIP and didn't even use screen sharing software, so yea not really necessary.
The scariest part was his takeaway from Google Glass was that the problem was it was too obviously on people's faces and that's why people didn't like it. He wants to do the same fucking thing with fake glasses that aren't obvious. Keep your fucking spyware virtual, bitch.
People are dumb, the complaints about Google Glass were technophobia. "Oh its got a camera" (just like every fucking cellphone)
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Google Glass wasn't technophobia. It's antipanopticon. Yes, cell phones have cameras, but we've managed to make using cell phone cameras both obvious and unacceptable in certain situations. Google Glass was always out, and while the beta had a red light that theoretically showed it was recording, for AR to work, it has to be on. Plus, I don't really completely trust software controlled status LEDs.
The term "glasshole" got used because a lot of users took umberage when they were asked to remove their Goo
If you could be doing anything anywhere (Score:2)
Why would want to be you be at work?
Isn't there a better implementation of Hell somewhere else?
VR Dentist? Surgeon? Sandwich maker? Plumber? (Score:2)
So Zuckerberg would be fine if his Dentist filled a cavity via VR? Or his heart surgeon was using VR while Mark was at home?
These 'all work can be done remotely' is such extreme hubris & disrespectful to the vast majority of work, and that work requires hands on presence.
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I think you fail to realize that Zuckerberg believes what he does is work, and that AR would enhance his work environment.
More important, Zuckerberg has investments in AR, and successfully convincing people that telecommuting is a viable investment goal means Facebook gets a new revenue stream.
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this one weird trick eye doctors hate! (Score:2)
sitting on your ass with VR goggles on for 40 hours a week. your eye doctor is going to be pissed that your eyeballs have turned to mush.
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sitting on your ass with VR goggles on for 40 hours a week. your eye doctor is going to be pissed that your eyeballs have turned to mush.
I get sick to my stomach from VR in about 5 minutes, so no chance I'll have the goggles on for 40 hours a week.
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The eye strain can be impressively bad. I was only able to move one eye after a while, which would give me double visioned unless everything lined up just right. It goes away, but it's like having a leg cramp ... in your eye socket.
Of course he is saying that. (Score:5, Informative)
He's trying to sell Oculus VR goggles. He paid billions for the privilege.
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FB account required... now Zuckercluck knows your clock-in and clock-out time every day. Maybe he'll even get bold enough to start monitoring the content "for relevant advertising" and get some industrial espionage done too. Or maybe he'll just cash out, retire to Hawaii, and leave all that to his successor. That takes less balls. Hey, Jeffery Bezoars already did it.
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He paid billions for the privilege.
You could at least add "mere chump change" to that statement. This is a a few grains of rice to someone like him. [youtube.com]
Cart before the horse (Score:2)
I honestly don't know. I could potentially see the value (especially if you get the resolution up and the headset size down) but I'm not sure it'll ever be enough.
Especially for climate conferences!! (Score:2)
Zucker-borg sez "We should be teleporting, not transporting, ourselves."
I've been preaching telecommuting and telepresence and video conferencing for years. But the ONE PRIMARY reason for VR/teleconferencing is for "climate conferences", where several THOUSAND rich nobodies take their private jets off to some swanky remote island to brag about how virtuous they are. For example, John Kerry took his (well, his wife's!) private jet to Iceland recently to accept an award for his "work" to preserve the climate
why? (Score:2)
Whelp ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Mark Zuckerberg Wants Commuting Replaced with VR/AR
Gotta find *some* reason for those Oculus VR headsets -- that now require a linked Facebook account.
[Count me out on both.]
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Mark Zuckerberg Wants Commuting Replaced with VR/AR
Gotta find *some* reason for those Oculus VR headsets -- that now require a linked Facebook account.
[Count me out on both.]
"Congratulations, you have the job! We will be sending you a corporate package to your home soon. Your registration with this device is required for employment with our company."
Good luck.
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Mark Zuckerberg Wants Commuting Replaced with VR/AR
Gotta find *some* reason for those Oculus VR headsets -- that now require a linked Facebook account.
[Count me out on both.]
"Congratulations, you have the job! We will be sending you a corporate package to your home soon. Your registration with this device is required for employment with our company."
Good luck.
No problem, when I get the equipment, which includes a laptop, I will create a special Facebook account for that job...it will have no connection to anything I do in the rest of my life.
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Mark Zuckerberg Wants Commuting Replaced with VR/AR
Gotta find *some* reason for those Oculus VR headsets -- that now require a linked Facebook account.
[Count me out on both.]
"Congratulations, you have the job! We will be sending you a corporate package to your home soon. Your registration with this device is required for employment with our company."
Good luck.
No problem, when I get the equipment, which includes a laptop, I will create a special Facebook account for that job...it will have no connection to anything I do in the rest of my life.
...except for the fact that an always-on, always-monitoring, always-listening piece of equipment, is sitting inside your life. What's that? HR is penalizing you for "lack of participation" on the device? Gee, how could we not see that coming...
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That only works when I need the job more than they need me. I do not need my current job more than my current employer needs me. As a matter of fact, I can get a similar job somewhere else faster than they can replace me with someone who can do my job.
You are absolutely correct, and I applaud you for creating that leverage. It's a nice step towards the financial freedom of not needing to work at all. Cheers.
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Mark Zuckerberg Wants Commuting Replaced with VR/AR
Gotta find *some* reason for those Oculus VR headsets -- that now require a linked Facebook account.
[Count me out on both.]
"Congratulations, you have the job! We will be sending you a corporate package to your home soon. Your registration with this device is required for employment with our company."
Good luck.
No problem. I got laid off in 2017 (at 54) and am now "retired" [wikipedia.org].
Of Course (Score:3)
Well of COURSE he does... He own Oculus, and Musk owns Tesla, Boring Company, and SpaceX. Its just billionaires bashing each other without directly bashing each other.
I good idea is a good idea no matter who states it (Score:1)
Honestly, just put prejudice out of the picture.
This is a good point. It doesn't matter whether you like Zuckerberg or not (I personally am not a fan, but I don't wast energy hating on him either), moving people virtually for work would reduce resource consumption in the world and help the environment. This is a good thing.
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Asynchronous should be the future (Score:3)
I find asynchronous communication like wiki/blog/discussion-group hybrid kinds of tools much more efficient if the participants know how to use them properly and they are decently designed. Urgent or tricky problems may require conference calls, but most regular work shouldn't. Textual tools also automatically "keep notes".
Meetings just waste too much time on blowhards who like to hear themselves talk, or side issues that don't relate to your part of the project. Perhaps if they had a good moderator in charge, they'd be practical, but that's rare.
Re: Asynchronous should be the future (Score:2)
Stop being such a sociopath.
Distance breeds even more sociopathy.
It is not our fault that humans mistreated you so you're u comfortable around them.
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I find asynchronous communication like wiki/blog/discussion-group hybrid kinds of tools much more efficient if the participants know how to use them properly and they are decently designed. Urgent or tricky problems may require conference calls, but most regular work shouldn't. Textual tools also automatically "keep notes".
Meetings just waste too much time on blowhards who like to hear themselves talk, or side issues that don't relate to your part of the project. Perhaps if they had a good moderator in charge, they'd be practical, but that's rare.
Good consistent moderation is the key, no matter what form of group exchange is utilized. A common issue with asynchronous communications are those individuals who consistently fail to promptly, and properly, participate. They can handicap the flow as badly as the blowhards and/or side issues handicap in-person meetings.
In other news... (Score:1)
Did he think about ‘The Basics?’ (Score:2)
But what are the practical considerations to use of VR for a telecommute or telepresence?
When I join a Zoom meeting, I can see my fellow participants and they can see me. Given that we’re told that 80% of communication is non-verbal, this may explain why Zoom meetings can be more productive than phone calls, i.e. because we get visual cues in real time and can tell how our audience is reacting when we speak.
How is that going to
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Maybe he proposes that we wait for technology to advance until we all have PCs that can run deep-fake processing of all our office colleagues in real time?
A "shallow" fake is more than sufficient. Our brains do most of the work, However, you are right about all of your other points. In case you're curious, the use-cases of an avatar vs zoom are things like anti-discrimination, characters (service-oriented jobs), virtual make-up/clothing, just for starters. These aren't really widespread use cases but important ones nonetheless.
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I have an unfair advantage: both my mother and grandmother worked with typewriters or some form of keyboard: I could type before I could walk.
But when you can't glance down at your keyboard and see what you're doing, when the only clue you have is the tactile presence of the "location" markers on the "F" and "J" keys for your left and right index fingers,
Humans want Mari Zuckerberg replaced (Score:2)
with a human. ;)
Mark! (Score:2)
Goddammit!
I want that touch screen replaced with an actual keyboard too!
Mark... (Score:1)
His company serves no constructive goal.
We'll decide things for ourselves.
Rich CEO is out of touch (Score:2)
Exponential curves be damned, VR/AR is 10 years away from being good enough to use for day to day work.
Ok . . . so where's the hardware and software. (Score:2)
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| The time to make a move on that has come and gone Zuck
I recently got an Oculus Quest 2 (using a custom FB account to minimize evil overlord stuff), and I have to say - it's pretty great. The difference between this and what the state of the art was 5y ago is really impressive. It feels like what I always imagined VR should feel like.
It's a solid gaming platform today, and I could imagine it becoming good enough for remote VR meetings before too long (assuming someone sorts out the avatar vs real face thin
no way (Score:2)
If Sugarmount thinks I'm gonna sit 1 hour and change, twice a day, 5 days a week, looking at virtual congested highways (replete with larger than life billboards advertising hookup sites and get rich quick scemes, I bet) in an Oculus, then he's miscalculated badly.
OK, let me go read if not the article, at least the fine summary...
and bring the office into my house? (Score:2)
That's nice. (Score:2)
Personally, I want Facebook replaced with something that actually benefits society instead of profiting by tearing it apart.
Improve the gear (Score:2)
of course he does (Score:1)
How odd (Score:2)
The rest of us just want that demonic pinocchio replaced with a real boy.
Of course he does (Score:2)
Mark Zuckerberg wants commuting to work replaced with VR/AR
Says the guy who owns VR equipment maker Oculus (a Facebook company).
Riiiiiight (Score:2)
Because everyone wants their surgeon to be somewhere else while performing the surgery over VR.
Fuck off Zuckerborg. You had your fifteen minutes with your social studies app.
Welcome to Solaria (Score:2)
Only the robots have to get better, but hey, Spot got an arm and can rub one out if ordered, he's a good boy, so we shouldn't complain too much.
That won't work when there is ACTUAL work (Score:2)
Regardless of all the idiotic arguments some people are going to now comment about, the work essential to our civilization must be done in person. There is no 'VR' to do them. Therefore I reject Zuckerbergs' argument to the contrary, he's an idiot.
I'm sure this is just his vision... (Score:2)
WinRar? :) (Score:2)
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Old man yells at cloud. Film at 11.