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Smart TVs Running Google TV Will Have a 'Basic' Option (pcmag.com) 94

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
An anonymous reader shares a report: If you go out and purchase a new TV today, it's going to have smart TV features allowing access to streaming services and the internet. However, if that new TV is running on the Google TV platform, it's possible to easily disable all the smart features during setup. The option to make your TV dumb was spotted by 9To5Google. During the setup of a TV running Google's smart TV platform, multiple features are offered including the ability to run apps, receive content recommendations, and enable Google Assistant. That's alongside the core options you'd expect from a TV: the ability to watch live broadcasts through an aerial and having access to attached devices via its HDMI ports. [...] However, Google decided to offer a more user-friendly way of doing this. As part of the setup process you can select "Set up basic TV." What this does is allow your TV to receive live broadcasts and access the HDMI ports, but nothing else. There's no apps, no Google Assistant, and no content recommendations. You also have the option to go back into the setup process and enable these smart features whenever you like.

Smart TVs Running Google TV Will Have a 'Basic' Option More | Reply

Smart TVs Running Google TV Will Have a 'Basic' Option

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  • I was thinking just a couple of hours ago that I wish I could do this with my LG TV. Hope it becomes standard.

    • I use a 43" 4K TV as my computer monitor. Every time I turn it on, I have to spend a minute waiting for the "smartness" to timeout before getting any work done.

      I would love to have a TV that comes on in dumb mode and immediately displays whatever is on the active HDMI port.

      What TV brand will have this feature? When will it be available?

      • Re:Great! (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Zarhan ( 415465 ) on Friday February 26, 2021 @02:50AM (#61101348)

        How does that work for you? The key difference between TVs and monitors is usually chroma subsampling. Meaning: You cannot get sharp edges when using a TV. You normally don't care about that when watching movies or playing games (things you normally use TV for), but anything with fine details (such as, say, a website) gets blurry. Unless you scale up to huge font sizes.

        • How does that work for you?

          It works very well. My screen space is equivalent to 8 letter-sized/A4 pages. I can have plenty of editors, terminals, and webpages open and visible.

          I sit with my nose about 36 inches from the screen, so eyestrain is minimal.

          My previous monitor was a 27-inch @ 2560x1440. This is 43-inch @ 3840x2160, so it is a big improvement. I don't notice any blurriness at all.

          This is not only the best monitor I have ever used but also one of the cheapest. I paid $249 at Costco.

          • I would highly doubt there are no quality and lag issues.
            I suspect you don't know what to look for.

            My dad also used a TV for a screen, and wasn't bothered because he hadn't seen what could/should have been.

            To me, it not only clearly had this TV look, but even in low lag mode, the mouse pointer had such a lag that it was unbearably mushy. Completely impossible to play any non-CoD-sluggish shooter on it. Like back in the days with 200-300ms network lag with visual compensation, you'd always lose and not know

            • To me, it not only clearly had this TV look, but even in low lag mode, the mouse pointer had such a lag that it was unbearably mushy. Completely impossible to play any non-CoD-sluggish shooter on it. Like back in the days with 200-300ms network lag with visual compensation, you'd always lose and not know why.

              There are plenty of people connecting a PS5 to a TV and having no issues. There are plenty of TVs where you can turn off all the video processing and get low latency inputs.

        • Re:Great! (Score:4, Informative)

          by cfalcon ( 779563 ) on Friday February 26, 2021 @03:16AM (#61101380)

          > The key difference between TVs and monitors is usually chroma subsampling.

          Televisions don't have good response times, so if you care about serious gaming, you want a monitor. Televisions also suck ass at high refresh rates, so if you are going for 90 hertz or higher, pick a monitor and don't even think about a television no matter *what* its specs claim. There's also a brightness issue; a television normally is a bit more stressful to look at for long periods of time, but this is often mitigated just by looking away, etc., and is not as important a consideration.

          But response times and refresh rates are, in 2021, a great reason to use a monitor as a monitor, instead of a television as a monitor.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            Some TVs are supporting 120Hz now. A 120Hz OLED is going to have superior response times to an LCD monitor too.

            LG in particular support 120Hz and Freesync/Gsync. The current generation of consoles support high refresh rates and Freesync as well.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by cfalcon ( 779563 )

              > Some TVs are supporting 120Hz now.

              Many more claim to support it but do not. Meanwhile, you can get a 144 or 165 hertz monitor, and I think even faster is technically available. If a television claims to be 120 hertz, be sure that this is actually real and not marketing. For instance, a Motion Rate of 120 on a Samsung means a real framerate of 60, and they are claiming an extrapolated value. Similarly a 120Hz CMI means a framerate of 60 as well.

              But yes, there are some top end televisions that actual

          • None of that is inherently true.

            Many TVs offer a minimal processing mode which has both no unnecessary latency, and no motion compensation or blurring, and have 120Hz refresh.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by cfalcon ( 779563 )

              >None of that is inherently true.

              Read about "effective refresh rates" and other marketing techniques used by television manufacturers to lie about refresh rates above 60 hertz:
              https://www.cnet.com/news/ultr... [cnet.com]
              You can see a huge list of televisions with semifradulent claims about framerate here. By contrast, a 144 hertz monitor from any company I've seen at retail will actually do 144 hertz. The 120 hertz claimed by televisions is usually a lie.

              For response times, don't make the mistake of comparing the

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by e3m4n ( 947977 )
            Isnt it still up for debate how much the human eye can detect over 30fps? I cant imagine visually noticing a difference between 60fps and 90fps. Honestly I did not particularly like the 3D HFR versions of The Hobbit, when I saw them in the theatre. To me it looked a lot less fantasy-like compared to TLOTR.. my brain just did not accept it the same and so my immersion in the film did not feel as deep. Basically it became somewhat of a distraction.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by cfalcon ( 779563 )

              > Isnt it still up for debate how much the human eye can detect over 30fps?

              No. Go set a game to run at 30 fps and then set it to run at 90 fps (or 60 if your monitor caps there), and it will be obvious to you.

              Your feelings about high fps movies (the "soap opera effect") are about how you prefer to view movies through long conditioning. It's precisely BECAUSE you perceive the differences in framerate that you have this preference. If movies had always been some kind of 240 hertz experience (actually hi

            • Honestly I did not particularly like the 3D HFR versions of The Hobbit

              Then you clearly perceived a difference over 30fps. 48fps is in an uncanny valley sort of situation. Film-like video shot at 24fps lets your brain fill in the motion and it feels "natural" if you've grown up with it your whole life. 60fps (fields per second, 60i) looks "too real" and most people haven't seen real 120fps content. Most of what passes for 120fps is a 24p movie being upsampled by a TV's motion processor and looks terrible/fake. Even if you had real 120fps content, it won't be as lifelike (

        • All the TV I checked had the "use TV as a computer monitor" option, the one I am using on my double "monitor" setup on the left is a tv used as monitor with the option enabled the one on the right is just a Samsung monitor. Neither show the web stuff as blurry. The only way I got it something unreadable is when I scaled down slashdot to 30% size at which point it wasn't readable on anything. I suspect what you are m,eaning is when the TV is used as is , WITHOUT setting it as monitor. If you set it up, at le

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          This hasn't been true for a long time. HDMI 2.0 offers 4k with 4:4:4 chroma subsampling and I've never seen a TV that didn't actually display it properly.

          If the picture looks crappy it's probably because you have sharpening enabled for that input, or have not enabled "direct" mode or whatever your model calls disabling overscan.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by e3m4n ( 947977 )
          For basic desktop shit a 1080p hdmi is sufficient. Gaming aside, a 1080p tv works fine as the second monitor for a laptop. My wife has been using a 32in tv as a second monitor for her work dell 13in 2-in-1 since the pandemic started. Best $100 she ever spent.

        • I know for me it works just fine, and has for many years. I started with a 40 inch Sony 1080P TV, which was more expensive, but had a damn fine image that could be tuned to color match my local print shop for my semi-pro / hobby photography prints.

          I then "upgraded" to a Phillips el-cheapo shitbox 4K 50 inch. Images are still sharp, latency is acceptable, but the color gamut is pretty crap. The contrast can be tuned pretty accurately though. So that's nice. Basically you get what you pay for. It's cheap, it

      • My LG TV works just like a dumb TV because I've never connected it to a network.

        I turn it on and whatever HDMI port is active is shown.

      • I'm old enough to remember that when turning on a TV in the 1970's you had to wait around 30 seconds for the tube to warm up before the picture appeared. How far we've come... lol.

        • I'm old enough to remember that when turning on a TV in the 1970's you had to wait around 30 seconds for the tube to warm up before the picture appeared. How far we've come... lol.

          And now you have to wait 30 seconds for the software in the tv to get its act together before you can use the tv. Yes, how far we've come.

        • Now I miss turning off an old TV and watching the picture collapse into a vertical line, which rolls up into a dot, which fades out.

          Now I'm remembering low-res, black and white, three channels, tracking issues, VCRs, and suddenly I'm not so nostalgic.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ncc74656 ( 45571 ) *

          I'm old enough to remember that when turning on a TV in the 1970's you had to wait around 30 seconds for the tube to warm up before the picture appeared.

          We had a 13" black-and-white in the kitchen up until 1984 that ran on vacuum tubes (not just the CRT, but everything). You waited 30 seconds for all of the tubes to warm up before it would do anything. At least the 19" color TV (a newer "solid-state" model) in the living room would give you audio while you were waiting on the CRT.

    • Don't worry. The TV will most likely be made in China and backdoor implanted to activate the camera and the microphone and stream the information to the political officers in the van parked around the corner. There are cloak and dagger outfits out there, and when you unplug and disconnect your hotel TV, someone is at the door real soon offering to 'fix' the TV. Sometimes it is worth it to donate a 'special smart' 85 inch TV to a supermodel or ex, so you can see watch and record what is really going on.
      • As opposed to the Nsa who have thiers built into the chips themselves and just pull the info directly from the makers server closet

        • Wouldn't be surprised if the "intellience comminity" aren't actually all buddies behind the scenes. I mean they are all so alike, they could be loving brothers.

    • I have an older Samsung smart TV and don't connect it to the internet. It turns on fast and I don't need to worry about it phoning home.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jonwil ( 467024 )

        My current TV is a 32" Samsung dumb LCD TV. It can go up to 1080i (which is as high as Australian OTA networks go) and it turns on fast with one press of the on button. No camera, no microphone, no "apps", no crap I don't need or want.

        Essentially the TV's only purpose is to let me watch the output of my Topfield digital recorder (either live TV or things I recorded) and for that job its better than one of those new-fangled "smart TVs" and the picture quality is good enough that I don't care about some fancy

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cfalcon ( 779563 )

      Yea this is actually a killer feature for me. I'll need someone who is into this to actually check this out, to make sure it isn't secretly reporting everything on some backchannel, but honestly, with google, that sounds really unlikely. Sounds very desirable.

    • Agreed. While it is nice to use my phone as a remote control, it only seems to work if the TV is on.

      Once I turn on my LG, I immediately switch over to my Nvidia Shield.

      Probably the only "smart" feature I use is the one that switches inputs when my PS4 turns on (but I can easily lose that in exchange for turning off all the smart features and menus.).

      I am hoping this feature also makes it's way to fire tvs.

      As someone who already lost one TV because the smart part broke so it wouldn't boot, I wonder if disab

  • No data collected option? (Score:3)

    by khchung ( 462899 ) on Friday February 26, 2021 @02:26AM (#61101326) Journal

    Does it have an option to NOT send my data to Google?

  • What about the subsidies? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MDMurphy ( 208495 ) on Friday February 26, 2021 @02:29AM (#61101332)
    I read a while back that smart TVs were cheaper to sell than dumb TVs because of subsidies. Netflix and others pay to have their apps pre-loaded and in some cases have dedicated buttons with their logos on the remote.

    They might not be amused if they can be hidden as part of the initial setup.

    • I read a while back that smart TVs were cheaper to sell than dumb TVs because of subsidies. Netflix and others pay to have their apps pre-loaded and in some cases have dedicated buttons with their logos on the remote. They might not be amused if they can be hidden as part of the initial setup.

      Let's be honest. None of them actually care, because they already know the average behavior of 99% of buyers.

      Streaming is a helluva drug.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      I read a while back that smart TVs were cheaper to sell than dumb TVs because of subsidies. Netflix and others pay to have their apps pre-loaded and in some cases have dedicated buttons with their logos on the remote.

      They might not be amused if they can be hidden as part of the initial setup.

      No, the app preloads are basically nothing. But the branded buttons is a big deal and likely will not have an effect - even in basic mode Netflix button will start Netflix. Netflix paid for a button on a remote which is

    • They might not be amused if they can be hidden as part of the initial setup.

      Given how the top couple manage to be their own button on the remote control, Unless the setup involves throwing the remote away it’s going to be physically in your face no matter what. Besides, these smart TVs drop support for anything like a hot potato, customers are “lucky” if those apps keep working for more than a few months before breaking and never get an update.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I expect the take-up will be something like 99% anyway, so it won't really affect the subsidised cost. Most people actually want smart features like Netflix and YouTube, that's why every TV has them now. Not having them is kinda like buying a TV without a remote control for most consumers.

      You have to remember that most consumers don't think about privacy, and never read EULAs. The majority probably aren't even aware that Netflix and Google et al. use their data that way.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by e3m4n ( 947977 )
      They never bothered to write updates for those specific chips anyway. If they were that worried they would have been more proactive. Most smart tvs see updates the first year at best.

  • Start smart but become dumb (Score:5, Interesting)

    by petes_PoV ( 912422 ) on Friday February 26, 2021 @03:00AM (#61101364)
    The last smart TV we bought was a Samsung. It came with loads of "apps" for watching various content. However, it also came with push-updates.

    After some months (less than a year) the TV updated itself and some of these apps were withdrawn. Over time other ones simply stopped as the content providers that the TV would connect to terminated their service. More push-updates followed and now the TV is practically useless for anything except being a dumb screen.
    While these services were promoted in the sales process, they were not in the small print. So there was no obligation for the vendor to continue providing them. I doubt this has changed at all in the past couple of years.

    With that experience, it seems to me there is little point TV manufacturers going to the trouble of adding Android or any other TV o/s. It is better to buy an add-on box for any "smart" uses. Not only are they more performant, but if they break it is an easy matter to replace them.

    • The last smart TV we bought was a Samsung. It came with loads of "apps" for watching various content. However, it also came with push-updates.

      After some months (less than a year) the TV updated itself and some of these apps were withdrawn. Over time other ones simply stopped as the content providers that the TV would connect to terminated their service. More push-updates followed and now the TV is practically useless for anything except being a dumb screen.

      While these services were promoted in the sales process, they were not in the small print. So there was no obligation for the vendor to continue providing them. I doubt this has changed at all in the past couple of years.

      With that experience, it seems to me there is little point TV manufacturers going to the trouble of adding Android or any other TV o/s. It is better to buy an add-on box for any "smart" uses. Not only are they more performant, but if they break it is an easy matter to replace them.

      I bought a "cheap" smart tv. $280 for a 55 inch 4k roku to replace the dumb 43 inch 1080P TV I had that suddenly "died". I've gone through a couple iterations of smart boxes plugged into an HDMI port (I started with a modded XBox and a tube TV)

      One of the criteria I have is the ability to install Kodi, since my NAS is filled with content, and doesn't have Plex or anything to transcode anything.

      I'm still using the nexus google-tv box I bought for about $50 a bunch of years ago, but it is showing some

      • Use Raspberry Pi it has 4K output
        • I'd second that. I've been using a Pi with Kodi for years. While older Pi versions were sometimes a little slow to update the UI, the Pi 4 is excellent. There are no issues with upgrading either. I was running the first gen Pi (512MB of RAM) as a music server until only a year or so ago and it was never an issue updating Raspian.
    • Yes, I'm almost looking forward to this process for the ad-ridden Samsung I bought 15 months ago. Then I can get a dedicated streaming device and load Plex, Netflix, Amazon etc. through that, and have at least a little more control of the content.
    • Seen this on a mid range LG TV that is less than two years old. Basically none of the apps work anymore.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      That's really the fault of the services, not of Samsung.

      The decent ones maintain support for a very long time. I have an Panasonic plasma from 2012 that has YouTube and Netflix apps that both still work just fine. The only reason I don't use them much is because I have an Android TV box that supports ad/sponsor blocking.

      Samsung doesn't make most of the apps, they are third party. Often the makers go bust (because many of them are startups) or they just abandon platforms that don't make enough money. One sol

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by e3m4n ( 947977 )
      The life expectancy of a TV exceeds the life expectancy of the chips used to accelerate the decode the media stream. The biggest example was the shift from H.264, H.265. To be efficient these streaming boxes use dedicated hardware so they csn remain low power. Some can run off a 1amp 5V usb port on the side of the TV. For a TV to be successful in a way that still eliminates the clutter of a streaming box they need to create an interface socket and a pluggable form factor. Not that I am saying this specific

  • Sorry, I don't need my TV spying on me. I'll take LG's Linux over Google's Linux, thank you very much.

    • Is there any evidence that Google spies on non-logged-in, no-service-using users of Google TV?

      Do you have any proof that creators of whatever you prefer aren't?

  • Just concentrate on improving and giving us the best screen,TV companies!

  • The next time I get a TV... (Score:3)

    by Gonoff ( 88518 ) on Friday February 26, 2021 @04:49AM (#61101466)

    I will want normal over the air TV (Freeview), a streaming app or 2 (Netflix, Disney+ or whatever) and something to plug a game console into.

    I specifically want NOT to have a "virtual assistant", recommendations and voice commands. I don't need a web browser on it. That is a classic case of using the wrong tool for the job (like using Excel for a database). The nearest to smarts I want is it to be able to re-tune when more channels appear on Freeview. If I want a smart device, I have plenty of choice in phones, Alexas etc. I don't need one stuck on the wall!

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by The Rizz ( 1319 )

      If you have a game console you don't need the TV to have any streaming apps. Every console for the last few generations has had apps for almost all the streaming services. If you've got an Xbox or Playstation you'll not only have pretty much every app the smart TVs have, but you'll actually be getting updates to them! Most TV streaming apps stop getting updates within a year or so.

    • Get a LED projector and connect it to your phone or any home computer. (Use your phone as a remote.)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Panasonic and LG TVs offer what you want. They have a lot more features but you can simply ignore or disable them.

      I had an LG (that broke after a couple of years so was returned) that had a voice assistant feature, but I never agreed to the EULA for it and declined to switch it on when asked.

      Maybe it helps that they need to get opt-in permission in GDPR countries but here everything needs to be disabled by default.

  • It's just a big low-precision screen.
    Why does there have to be another smartphone in there when I already got one and a laptop and a desktop and a home server ...?

  • Computing dumbed down the masses en mass. Digital TV screens pale in comparison to the era of plasma display TV screens. Cinematography seamlessly communicated emotion instead of blits and bits that flit inand out. But they programmatically simplify the hardware and market along with the masses.

    Welcome to your end point, where dumb TV is an actual choice.

    Perfect GOOG got there first.

  • I don't need OTV option either as I live too far away to get any signal plus it's all crap I don't want. I have a cheap laptop to stream anything I want, anything !

  • This news makes a case for going with Sony for replacing my old dumb Samsung LCD.
    TFA says this involves Sony, TLC and others(?) using AndroidTV.

    I was researching replacements, and LG was front runner, but I experienced WebOS on a 2018 model, and was dreading that...

    I just watch OTA on special occasions, and use Roku box. The old samsung has a Source button to toggle through inputs - that LG I saw certainly had nothing like that.
    Another fun variable I've been dealing with is 49"-class challenges (e.g. you c

  • We have a three month old Vizio that I want to use as a dumb TV but due to a glitch in the firmware it constantly goes to a full screen error message saying network connectivity interrupted because it's not connected to wifi. There's no rhyme or reason for it but sometimes just flipping up or down OTA channels will do it, as will turning CC on or off.

    Turning the TV off and on doesn't fix it, you have to go into the admin menu and tell it to reboot the TV.

    Worst. TV. Ever.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rea1l1 ( 903073 )

      Some routers such as Asus let you connect devices to the network and then disable their internet access. Might be worth it. Or just stick an old router on it and hope a new round of "not connected to the internet" error messages don't pop up.

    • You still in returns time? Return it. It's broken. This is how we fight the madness. Aggressively return these "Smart" TVs until they're too expensive for stores to stock.

  • Come to think of it, the TV in the basement is for disks. We already belly up to a 31" monitor and component stereo for broadcast through the (old) HDHomeRun on the LAN. Guess monitors are the future.

  • ... so long as the TV is connected to the 'net, there will be the possibility to override this setting via a firmware update. To me it looks like the "hook them on the free service, then start charging for it" tactics that google has used with, e.g., their photo product.

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