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Social Networks Encryption Privacy

Can WhatsApp Stop Spreading Misinformation Without Compromising Encryption? (qz.com) 149

"WhatsApp, the Facebook-owned messaging platform used by 2 billion people largely in the global south, has become a particularly troublesome vector for misinformation," writes Quartz — though it's not clear what the answer is: The core of the problem is its use of end-to-end encryption, a security measure that garbles users' messages while they travel from one phone to another so that no one other than the sender and the recipient can read them. Encryption is a crucial privacy protection, but it also prevents WhatsApp from going as far as many of its peers to moderate misinformation. The app has taken some steps to limit the spread of viral messages, but some researchers and fact-checkers argue it should do more, while privacy purists worry the solutions will compromise users' private conversations...

In April 2020, WhatsApp began slowing the spread of "highly forwarded messages," the smartphone equivalent of 1990s chain emails. If a message has already been forwarded five times, you can only forward it to one person or group at a time. WhatsApp claims that simple design tweak cut the spread of viral messages by 70%, and fact-checkers have cautiously cheered the change. But considering that all messages are encrypted, it's impossible to know how much of an impact the cut had on misinformation, as opposed to more benign content like activist organizing or memes. Researchers who joined and monitored several hundred WhatsApp groups in Brazil, India, and Indonesia found that limiting message forwarding slows down viral misinformation, but doesn't necessarily limit how far the messages eventually spread....

This isn't just a semantic argument, says EFF strategy director Danny O'Brien. Even the smallest erosion of encryption protections gives Facebook a toehold to begin scanning messages in a way that could later be abused, and protecting the sanctity of encryption is worth giving up a potential tool for curbing misinformation. "This is a consequence of a secure internet," O'Brien says. "Dealing with the consequences of that is going to be a much more positive step than dealing with the consequences of an internet where no one is secure and no one is private...."

No matter what WhatsApp does, it will have to contend with dueling constituencies: the privacy hawks who see the app's encryption as its most important feature, and the fact-checkers who are desperate for more tools to curb the spread of misinformation on a platform that counts a quarter of the globe among its users.

Whatever Facebook decides will have widespread consequences in a world witnessing the simultaneous rise of fatal lies and techno-authoritarianism.

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Can WhatsApp Stop Spreading Misinformation Without Compromising Encryption?

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  • All these platforms spend so much energy attempting to treat the symptoms rather than the underlying disease.
    • People will always find a way to spread misinformation but right now there's not many ways to easily send fully encrypted messages.

      I know which way this one should go.

      • by aberglas ( 991072 ) on Sunday March 07, 2021 @07:43PM (#61134108)

        We can monitor IM. And with modern AI we can easily mass monitor phone conversations.

        But private conversations are still a dangerous source of misinformation.

        The good news is that phones let us know were people are at all times and so who is talking to whom. The irremovable battery, always on feature allows us to monitor conversations held near the phone. The few conversations that are not held near a phone are then red flags that focus further investigation.

        So I am confident that we will soon be able to finally stamp out all fake news.

        Yours,

        Minstey of Truth

      • The question is not whether to stop free speech. The answer to that would indeed be easy.

        The question is how to reduce the amount of bullshit without undue burden in free speech. That's a much more difficult question. Their current approach, and Facebook now does something similar, is to control the rate at which new messages can be forwarded to huge numbers of people. That gives a few hours for the truth to catch up to the latest rumor.

        Very clever people might come up with more and better ways mitigate th

        • The question is how to reduce the amount of bullshit without undue burden in free speech.

          But, you seem to imply, that bullshit is not protected free speech itself? (at least in the US)

          • Again, if free speech didn't apply to bullshit, that would be easy - ban bullshit. It's precisely BECAUSE the first amendment protects speech which the administration calls "bullshit" that we have an interesting problem.

            What's challenging is protecting free speech (including bullshit speech), without becoming a nation of idiots that believe all kinds of stupid rumors.

            In fact, one could well argue that the entire PURPOSE of the first amendment is to protect speech that the politicians don't agree with. The

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      All these platforms spend so much energy attempting to treat the symptoms rather than the underlying disease.

      Well, the problem is that the disease is not treatable. There will always be quite a few people that try to elevate themselves by claiming others are inferior. Ever seen a black racist or a female sexist? That makes it pretty clear this is a universal problem. Then there are the conspiracy theorists. They also think they are superior, because they think they know some really important truth that most people are unaware of or too stupid to see. Then there are the assholes that are just aggressive and destruc

    • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Because the underlying disease is people blindly believing what they read rather than properly fact checking for themselves.
      The established media don't want to treat the underlying disease, because they have been using it to their own advantage for years. What they want, is to return to a state where only the select few are able to exploit the disease.
      If you solve the underlying problem, and people actually check properly before believing something, then the media lose their influence.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 07, 2021 @07:12PM (#61134034)
    Can WhatsApp Stop Free Speech Without Compromising Encryption?

    I never thought I'd see the day when large numbers of people are forbidden from communicating. Truth or fiction, it doesn't matter. Free speech is free speech and it shouldn't be able to be censored. Welcome to our Orwellian present.
    • I never thought I'd see the day when large numbers of people are forbidden from communicating. Truth or fiction, it doesn't matter.

      It's important to remember that your right end where mine begin. In this case of WhatsApp, your rights end where WhatsApp's begins. For better or worse they are not obligated to send messages, despite the fact that they are a messaging platform. You are free to shout your message but nobody is compelled to listen or rely your message.

      You may not like it but just because you have free speech does not negate the rights of others to ignore you, selectively or completely.

      • Defending the privilege of megacorporations to allow what we can and can't say. How did the far left reverse course to hardcore libertariansim overnight?
        • by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Sunday March 07, 2021 @08:48PM (#61134312)

          IM platforms are not considered a"utility" and thus are not regulated as such. Hell, an internet connection isn't even considered a utility. I'd be more than happy to back your right to spout off BS over IM when it's considered to be a utility.

          Until then, it's up to corporations what you can and cannot say, where you can and cannot go and what you can and cannot read. If I recall correctly, you were against net neutrality, so perhaps you only have yourself to blame.

          • IM platforms are not considered a"utility" and thus are not regulated as such. Hell, an internet connection isn't even considered a utility. I'd be more than happy to back your right to spout off BS over IM when it's considered to be a utility.

            And when politicians utilize that not-a-utility in order to manipulate the masses, your stance on this becomes less and less favorable. The real question is when will these services be evaluated as actual utilities? Will we ignorantly wait until it's far too late to have that discussion, after certain flavored biased corporations own everything?

            We shouldn't even be here talking about the risk to encryption with a service that advertises itself as such. If you have a problem with misinformation, wise up

            • Will we ignorantly wait until it's far too late to have that discussion, after certain flavored biased corporations own everything?

              That's how it's looking with Republicans refusing to pass net neutrality. You can't talk about IM platforms being utilities without the pipes that move them being utilities.

              If you have a problem with misinformation, wise up and get less stupid friends. That's the simplest answer.

              My problem is not "stupid" friends, my problem is "stupid" opponents. If you do not share a common reality then you cannot have a civil conversation about politics. Try having a conversation with a Qanon fanatic and you will be unable to connect on the most basic level.

              • Will we ignorantly wait until it's far too late to have that discussion, after certain flavored biased corporations own everything?

                That's how it's looking with Republicans refusing to pass net neutrality. You can't talk about IM platforms being utilities without the pipes that move them being utilities.

                If you have a problem with misinformation, wise up and get less stupid friends. That's the simplest answer.

                My problem is not "stupid" friends, my problem is "stupid" opponents. If you do not share a common reality then you cannot have a civil conversation about politics. Try having a conversation with a Qanon fanatic and you will be unable to connect on the most basic level.

                Your problem, is far more widespread than you think. Of course it's senseless to talk to a Qanon fanatic. It's equally as senseless to talk to a snowflake who can't come out of their cry closet. Neither side, shares a common reality. That is exactly why we're here discussing the impact of encrypted platforms on society. Society, is the problem at this point, whether you believe it or not. Few want to accept that, because they usually realize they're part of the overall problem.

                • It's equally as senseless to talk to a snowflake who can't come out of their cry closet.

                  I know the qanon people are detached from reality because they believe there is a global conspiracy of pedophiles that are intertwined with politics. Could you describe the issue with "snowflakes"?

                  Neither side, shares a common reality.

                  Then we should be addressing the reason for that.

                  That is exactly why we're here discussing the impact of encrypted platforms on society.

                  Actually, the topic is stripping misinformation/disinformation from a messaging platform.

                  Society, is the problem at this point,

                  You say that but the issues with a lack of a shared reality are correlated with the rise of disinformation. This isn't the first time this has happened either, so there is ple

                  • That is exactly why we're here discussing the impact of encrypted platforms on society.

                    Actually, the topic is stripping misinformation/disinformation from a messaging platform.

                    Actually, the topic is the amount of tools we have in society. Not the tool a lot of them use.

                    Society, is the problem at this point,

                    You say that but the issues with a lack of a shared reality are correlated with the rise of disinformation. This isn't the first time this has happened either, so there is plenty of evidence pointing to disinformation as being the culprit that is dividing people from reality.

                    The solution is simple: remove sources of disinformation and regain a shared reality. Censoring an IM platform is a mitigation tactic that will do little because it's not the source, it's just a mode of propagation. Frankly, none of this would even have been considered if sources of disinformation weren't so prominent.

                    The solution is far from "simple" when the problem is that widespread. This isn't a matter of shooting down the planes dropping disinformation leaflets over the city and calling the problem solved. This is more akin to you pointing to the email spam valve to turn it all "off". Again, it's not that simple, and you know it. The problem with perpetuation is also the entire reason I say that "society" has a problem,

                    • The solution is far from "simple" when the problem is that widespread.

                      It's actually really not. All that needs to be done is make it illegal to profit from the willful dissemination of disinformation/misinformation, even indirectly. For each violation a fine is imposed and it grows larger for the next violation.

                      The problem isn't fly-by-night operations, the problem is established outlets that knowingly profit from disinforming people under the guise of entertainment. It was only after the repeal of the FCC Fairness Doctrine that things once again spiraled out of control.

                      Yo

                    • The solution is far from "simple" when the problem is that widespread.

                      It's actually really not. All that needs to be done is make it illegal to profit from the willful dissemination of disinformation/misinformation, even indirectly. For each violation a fine is imposed and it grows larger for the next violation.

                      The problem isn't fly-by-night operations, the problem is established outlets that knowingly profit from disinforming people under the guise of entertainment. It was only after the repeal of the FCC Fairness Doctrine that things once again spiraled out of control.

                      You're going to say, "blah blah blah ministry of truth" but really it will be the courts that decide if it's a violation.

                      It's not a perfect solution but it is a good solution.

                      How well did fines work after the 2008 financial meltdown? How many laws have we imposed (or re-imposed) since that time to prevent it from happening again? How many other established outlets been caught in massive scandals, only to pay slap-on-the-wrist fines that were pre-calculated to find out just how profitable the criminal behavior really is?

                      In the entire history of Too Big To Fail mega-corps, there has never been a punishment that has turned out to be an actual deterrent. Your suggestion hasn't ev

      • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

        There are too many IM platforms, all of them are controlled by someone and are generally isolated from each other. You end up running 20 different IM apps depending who you need to communicate with, which is a ridiculous situation. Central systems also allow for centralised monitoring, censorship or blocking.
        We need a decentralised system, like email or the phone network, where you can have one account using the provider of your choice (or being your own provider) and the client of your choice.

        • by Octorian ( 14086 )

          You mean like SMS? Which has no encryption and none of the features expected of a modern system. Oh, and many of these alternative "over the top" services only even exist because greedy telcos price-gouged on SMS for way too long and thus created the opportunity.

          • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

            SMS has no encryption by default, but also nothing to stop users who are concerned about privacy using encryption over the top of it and just using SMS to transport the ciphertext.
            But yes, too much price gouging is what caused people to seek alternatives.

      • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

        Whether a monopoly communications platform or any platform which obtains a government level of control and power has the right to refuse to selectively refuse to relay messages for reasons other than continuity of service is questionable.

        Whatsapp is Facebook and Facebook is a monopoly communications platform.

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Well, then you have to legally declare them a monopoly and legally declare them a common carrier or such. Until then, they're another company with their own rights on what they transport.
          You can look at the history of the phone company, which included at one point the American government nationalizing them to enforce the equivalent of net neutrality, then re-privatized them with conditions.

    • by Ichijo ( 607641 )

      Free speech is free speech and it shouldn't be able to be censored.

      If you want free speech, you have to censor it. [wikipedia.org] It's just another paradox, like spending money to make money!

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Free speech is free speech and it shouldn't be able to be censored.

        If you want free speech, you have to censor it. [wikipedia.org] It's just another paradox, like spending money to make money!

        Yes. But it must take significant effort to censor, so it can only be done for really problematic things and certainly not on mass-scale. The problem is not censorship. The problem is universal, low-cost censorship.

      • According to the person whose paradox you're quoting, when it cannot be defeated by discourse, logic, and discussion - not through blindly stifling it.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Well, there obviously need to be limits to free speech. But what must never be easy is imposing these limits and it must be impossible to do on mass-scale.

    • I never thought I'd see the day when large numbers of people are forbidden from communicating.

      You'd probably never thought you'd see a world where you can instantly speak to millions of people all at once. In a world where words reach further those words need to be used with more care.

  • by Chris Mattern ( 191822 ) on Sunday March 07, 2021 @07:13PM (#61134038)

    They created this all based on the ideal that their creation must enable absolutely unfettered communication, because that had to be good. They are now finding out that this means they can't say, "Well, absolutely unfettered communication except for this."

    • "Well, absolutely unfettered communication except for this."

      Nope. Try again. They are saying absolutely unfettered communication, just a bit slower and with more purpose. "Communication" is not the endless forwarding of spam and shit. WhatsApp are not blocking anything based on content.

  • No and no (Score:5, Insightful)

    by beepsky ( 6008348 ) on Sunday March 07, 2021 @07:17PM (#61134044)
    Whatsapp is not an arbiter of truth, it's a fucking IM app.
    It has absolutely no place in any way shape or form ever for any reason ever reading and modifying messages, unless you want to live in CCP controlled China or (slightly less oppressive) a modern version of Fascist Italia.
    It's not Zuck's place to decide what is true and what is false, and what can be said in private discussions behind closed doors and what can't. FUCK OFF, cryptofascists
    • Sorry but Facebook make their money of monetizing the user base, so in their eyes they do have a role in reading and modifying your messages and if you choose to use them you are agreeing to this. Honestly anyone that cares about their privacy and rights isn't using a facebook product to communicate so pretty much a non issue anyway.
    • Whatsapp is not an arbiter of truth, it's a fucking IM app.
      It has absolutely no place in any way shape or form ever for any reason ever reading and modifying messages

      WhatsApp is part of a publicly traded corporation. Public traded corporations are compelled (by their board members) to ensure the stock value is not negatively effected (or stock holders can vote them out). If it were to get out that people were killed because people were spreading lies on WhatsApp, it could damage their stock price. This gives them plenty of reason to not send messages that are determined to be false.

      Before you accuse me of creating a strawman argument, I would point you to the Indian [wikipedia.org]

      • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

        The situation in india was due to rumours being spread between groups of individuals. The method used for communication is not really relevant, they could just as easily have used SMS, email, voice phonecalls or even face to face communication.

      • we already know more people have died due to facebook and its subsidiaries than parlar but somehow only parlar got shut down.

        that is part of the problem, the double standards
        • we already know more people have died due to facebook and its subsidiaries than parlar but somehow only parlar got shut down.

          Facebook has it's own datacenters and relies on nobody. Parler relied on AWS for hosting and got booted of the platform. Parler didn't get shut down, they got booted off AWS.

          that is part of the problem, the double standards

          The two sites are not comparable on any level. Try again.

          • the argument was that they were being used to push hate and thats why they got shut down. only fair the same holds true for FB
            • Just one problem, they didn't get shut down, they got booted off AWS. Check it out, Parler is back online. As I already pointed out, Facebook has it's own datacenters and therefore zero reliance on AWS.

              So tell me, what could anyone do to Facebook that would be comparable to what was done to Parler?

            • you don't get it. THEY DID NOT GET SHUT DOWN. Parlar got kicked off AWS, They are completely free to run their service on their own or on any other partner that will take their business. their is no double standard. Just because facebook don't rely on a 3rd party doesn't make it a double standard.
    • by Octorian ( 14086 )

      Whatsapp is not an arbiter of truth, it's a fucking IM app.

      Yet somehow tech companies the world over have to keep explaining this to India. Again, and again, and again.

    • ... decide what is true and what is false ...

      He isn't: He's deciding when YOU can lie to other people. Yes, that's still a problem. No, someone has to reduce the power of internet fuckwads and shitty policy, such as blocking mindless repetition of lies, is the only answer available.

    • Whatsapp is not an arbiter of truth, it's a fucking IM app.

      Indeed. And it continues to be just a fucking IM app going forward. Zuck is very much on your side and of your opinion. So why do you attack him? Is it because you can't RTFS?

    • I was talking about this the other day.
      People in the West think that 'fake news' is something new.

      I grew up in the developing world. News was just rarely something 'factual' from an authoritative source. It really was just word of mouth and who you trust and your alliances. This doesn't mean people didn't care about truth. Of course most people thought they were telling the truth. Yet, who could actually know the truth?

      The truth is so unknowable. Some village attacked. Who did it? Why did they do it? Some g

  • by Jarwulf ( 530523 ) on Sunday March 07, 2021 @07:23PM (#61134054)
    or at least a major point of encryption so that people can spread information others might not like or want them to spread ie 'misinformation'? The title is kind of nonsensical like saying 'is there a way to stop losing weight without compromising my weight loss diet?' BTW what is with Slashdot's gigantic boner for censorship? I was hoping things would ramp down now that Trump is no longer in office but nope. Isn't the whole procensorship and pro top down technocratic authoritarianism thing sort of go against its original mission? I mean Slashdot is/was a site founded to be about free and opensource software and the democratic grassroots and free flow of information that underpins it right?
    • by dryeo ( 100693 )

      BTW what is with Slashdot's gigantic boner for censorship?

      Most (I believe) Slashdot users have always been anti-spam.

  • though it's not clear what the answer is

    If you think it's not clear what the answer is, you should try to figure out what is actually misinformation!

    Like at the start of the pandemic, would you be blocking suggestions everyone wear any mask if they can instead of just n95, because that was position advocated widely [time.com]...

    Maybe just let people pass around information, and over time what is misinformation will become very clear.

  • The answer to how to do this without the encryption is that they have to implement client side filtering. And you don't want the client sending any of it to the server for verification. That means they have to implement some sort of fingerprinting algorithm, so that they can just send a database of fingerprints to the client. Make it a little more complex than that and call it AI if you'd like, but that's about their only hope. If google can do it for music identification, and the Android camera apps "playg

  • "Misinformation" is information that is inconvenient to someone. It may be true, it may be false, it could be sort of both. But someone has decided it is inconvenient for people to hear it, so it is labeled "misinformation". That's simply a convenient way to make it "desirable" for make it go away.

    The real question here is, "Can [INSERT APP NAME HERE] make people think they're safe because of claimed end-to-end encryption, while not actually giving them that safety?"

    You cannot monitor the content of communi

  • Back in the day, if we wanted to spread important news (e.g. an upcoming protest, or "did you see who so-and-so was standing close to all night?") among our friends and acquaintances group, we'd phone a few of the people we knew, and they might do the same. The news spread slowly through the tree.

    No one, by the way, was clamouring for the phone company to be monitoring, ascertaining the truth of, and censoring the content of these calls.

    Whatsapp with forwarding-throttling as described seems pretty similar i
  • The basic premise of the question misunderstands the distinction between a publishing platform and a communications platform. What I call a "publishing platform" is something like a blog or a public Facebook timeline, twitter account or YouTube channel: something the general public has access to. When you post something on such a platform, unless you change the default privacy settings, you are speaking to the world at large. A case could be made that there is merit to the idea of limiting the spread of
  • Did Slashdot censor me for wrongthink?

    Oh, right, laziness is a virtue.

  • Asking if X will stop doing Y when X didn't do Y in the first place is so stupid that I feel like I lost IQ points just reading about it.

    *PEOPLE* spread misinformation. Some of those people might happen to use WhatsApp. Full stop.

    WhatsApp is about as guilty of spreading misinformation as our ancestors that invented literacy in the first place.

  • by mi ( 197448 ) <slashdot-2017q4@virtual-estates.net> on Sunday March 07, 2021 @11:21PM (#61134646) Homepage Journal

    rise of fatal lies

    Last year the biggest such lie was the "systemic racism", which.

    You know, it is a lie, because its proponents claim, that denying it is evidence of it being true [diverseeducation.com]. It was not just George Floyd, earlier lies about Michael Brown's "hands up" [washingtonpost.com] and George Zimmerman being a racist [businessinsider.com].

    Other ignominious mentions go to:

    Russian Collusion
    Before Twitter et al became concerned about "civic integrity [twitter.com]", undermining the lawfully-elected President was all the rage. Mueller debunking this lie [theintercept.com] did not end it — how much did it weaken the US government's stance abroad?
    Covington Teen
    Mass media turned highs-choolers into such villains, adults were calling for real violence against them [thegatewaypundit.com]. The papers weren't mistaken — right next to their victims, there was a group of people, who actually did commit all those sins against political correctness, that the kids were accused of, but the press never covered them. It was a deliberate lie [vox.com].
    The officer "killed by fire extinguisher"
    This fake [archive.is] (also cited in articles of impeachment, BTW), and repeated by the gullible Slashdotters, is now giving the Democratic lawmakers the pretext to do [washingtonpost.com], what they spent decades accusing Senator McCarthy of doing: compel private businesses to go after dangerous ideas on behalf of the government.

    The term for those, who invent, spread, and believe such lies is Blue Anon (don't look for it on UrbanDictionary [thepostmillennial.com]) — and they aren't spread by WhatsApp. They are spread by the "established" newspapers.

  • The app has taken some steps to limit the spread of viral messages, but some researchers and fact-checkers argue it should do more, while privacy purists worry the solutions will compromise users' private conversations...

    So the proponents for more corporate based censorship are "researchers and fact-checkers" while the proponents for privacy are "privacy purists"? Nice framing.

    Maybe they should be labelled "privacy fundamentalists" next time?

  • by DrXym ( 126579 )
    Whatsapp doesn't use encryption for group chats so it can do what it likes in the chat. And even for end to end encryption it doesn't stop the software from doing something at the point of send / receive.

    For example Whatsapp does a lookup when you post a link. You paste the link and a moment later it is augmented with a thumbnail of the article / video it points at. The software obviously has the potential right there to flag misleading / false content as it does this. In addition, when somebody receives

  • fact-checkers who are desperate for more tools to curb the spread of misinformation = Censors. Lets nor beat around the bush here. They are censors who are trying to control the public narrative.
    • by jlar ( 584848 )

      fact-checkers who are desperate for more tools to curb the spread of misinformation = Censors. Lets nor beat around the bush here. They are censors who are trying to control the public narrative.

      The free dictonary defines a censor as:

      A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.

      Fact checkers on the other hand are people who are authorized to examine communication and suppress it only if it is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.

  • by phoenix321 ( 734987 ) on Monday March 08, 2021 @08:01AM (#61135560)

    There has never been a period in human history where the side that burned books, censored information, punished, forbid or prevented people for speaking were "the good guys". Never.

    There cannot even be such a thing as "misinformation" unless there is a central, unified, authoritarian dogma that defines true and false. This would then be the one and only source of "truth" in the system it encompasses, becoming for all intents and purposes an infallible entity, exactly like the pope in former times. Ex cathedra.

    Just another example of how people will recreate religious movements again and again whenever they lacked one.

  • For future reference, here is a link to the answer for all headlines that ask a question:

    http://no./ [no.]

  • "Geez whatsapp, why don't you get with the program and start removing accounts from those pesku iranians and venezuelans like facebook has been doing! God you're so slow!"

The rule on staying alive as a program manager is to give 'em a number or give 'em a date, but never give 'em both at once.

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