Automotive Startup Canoo Debuts a Snub-Nosed Electric Pickup (caranddriver.com) 99
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Car and Driver: Canoo, an electric automotive startup based in California, has expanded its lineup of forthcoming electric vehicles by revealing this snub-nosed pickup. The pickup, which sports a design similar to Canoo's passenger van, will offer more than 200 miles of range and as much as 600 horsepower and 550 pound-feet of torque with the dual-motor configuration; a rear motor configuration will also be offered. That power and range, and a full six-to-eight-foot pickup bed, all have to fit into a vehicle with a 112.2-inch wheelbase -- an inch shorter than the Tesla Model 3 -- and an overall length, at 184 inches, that makes it more than two feet shorter than the Ford Ranger pickup.
The pickup rides on Canoo's multi-purpose platform architecture and will be the third Canoo vehicle to do so. [...] The new pickup emphasizes modularity and looks to maximize its utility. It has tables folding down around the vehicle, various hidden storage areas, and numerous charging points on the exterior of the truck. In a video exploring the ins and outs, Tony Aquila, executive chairman of Canoo, said that the goal was to make something that was very functional and could also be personalized. On either side of the six-foot bed, tables fold down to function as a workspace, and there is also a table that folds down from the front of the truck. That table exposes a small storage area as well as various points to charge or power electronics. The pickup bed can also be extended, as well as enclosed, to eight feet long to fit bigger items. Steps with storage within them can be pulled out of the sides of the truck to make it easier to access anything on the roof rack. And to answer the question any truck owner would ask, yes, there's a taillamp setup in the bed extension, so it's okay to drive the truck with the bed extended to fit longer cargo.
The interior of the pickup, shown in the video, shows it fits two people, but Aquila said it could be adapted for a three-person setup. Information such as speed and battery levels appear to be on a broad screen just below the windshield. Canoo's pickup will be available for pre-order beginning in the second quarter of this year, but production isn't slated to begin until 2023.
The pickup rides on Canoo's multi-purpose platform architecture and will be the third Canoo vehicle to do so. [...] The new pickup emphasizes modularity and looks to maximize its utility. It has tables folding down around the vehicle, various hidden storage areas, and numerous charging points on the exterior of the truck. In a video exploring the ins and outs, Tony Aquila, executive chairman of Canoo, said that the goal was to make something that was very functional and could also be personalized. On either side of the six-foot bed, tables fold down to function as a workspace, and there is also a table that folds down from the front of the truck. That table exposes a small storage area as well as various points to charge or power electronics. The pickup bed can also be extended, as well as enclosed, to eight feet long to fit bigger items. Steps with storage within them can be pulled out of the sides of the truck to make it easier to access anything on the roof rack. And to answer the question any truck owner would ask, yes, there's a taillamp setup in the bed extension, so it's okay to drive the truck with the bed extended to fit longer cargo.
The interior of the pickup, shown in the video, shows it fits two people, but Aquila said it could be adapted for a three-person setup. Information such as speed and battery levels appear to be on a broad screen just below the windshield. Canoo's pickup will be available for pre-order beginning in the second quarter of this year, but production isn't slated to begin until 2023.
Call Me (Score:5, Insightful)
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basically this.
wake me when I can test drive one.
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basically this.
wake me when I can test drive one.
Does it need to go uphill or is it sufficient for you to roll down one?
Re:Call Me (Score:5, Funny)
Looks like it was designed by someone laid off from Peugeot.
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Looks like it was designed by someone laid off from Peugeot.
True, this will never sell on the US market, you can retrofit the truck balls easily enough but there is no gun rack, no armour, no ammo racks and no roof mounted turret for an M249. In short, none of the features the average American so sorely needs to survive their daily commute to work.
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Well, there is plenty of room for the grenade launchers though...
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I do not see how something with this design will pass a crash test. You are not likely to get more than 2-3 stars on Euroncap with this lack of crumple zones and glass going all the way to the front. In fact, even that may be an over-estimate.
If you pop up the bonnet of a modern car you will notice that there can be anything up to 30cm+ of empty space between the radiator "grille" (which is nowdays mostly for beauty purposes) and the
Re:Call Me (Score:5, Interesting)
Because this car doesn't have a big nondefromable block of metal up front, the energy absorption zone can reach right to the footwell instead of having to work around the engine. The pax are sitting behind the front axle, so the energy absorption zone is plenty big enough.
Basically every commercial van in the world has a front energy absorption zone that's this size or smaller, and they pass crash tests.
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Basically every commercial van in the world has a front energy absorption zone that's this size or smaller, and they pass crash tests.
Not to mention a bunch of semi tractors and school buses that have the same sort of design.
Google "Cab-over" (Score:2)
Especially if the rendering does not pass the "engineering" sniff test.
I do not see how something with this design will pass a crash test. You are not likely to get more than 2-3 stars on Euroncap with this lack of crumple zones and glass going all the way to the front. In fact, even that may be an over-estimate.
If you pop up the bonnet of a modern car you will notice that there can be anything up to 30cm+ of empty space between the radiator "grille" (which is nowdays mostly for beauty purposes) and the beginning of anything substantial such as radiator, aircon condenser, etc. That is for a reason - this is a crumple/energy absorption zone.
Dude, google "Cab-over" (or "Cab-over-engine"). They are quite popular (and safe) in Europe and Asia. We have quite a few of those ourselves here in the USA.
The glass thing might be an issue, but the snub-nose design? That's one of the tried-and-true designs that already pass safety/crash tests (when done right, that is.)
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Electric car startups (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't understand why anyone would fund an electric car startup. At this point, for them to compete against the rest of the automotive industry, they would need either some kind of new battery tech, or something special somewhere else. Tesla had an advantage because they were the only ones making an electric car, and now they have better battery tech than everyone else, and now they also have a nice charging network. Because of these advantages, Tesla will continue to make money, even if they stop making cars.
So what does this truck startup have? They don't have battery tech (200 mile range, no thanks). Tesla had problems with manufacturing for a while, but they had cool technology they could support themselves with until they got the hang of it.
Re: Electric car startups (Score:5, Interesting)
I wouldn't bet on this company ever shipping a product, but I do think they have something going for them.
They are (for better or for worse) aggressively taking advantage of the design flexibility an EV can provide. Lots of small vehicles with interesting open interiors.
It could be a flop, it could be too expensive to be worth it, but it's different, and no other company seems to be committing to actually manufacturing vehicles like that (though we've seen some concepts).
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Good point. I am not the one funding them, so I might as well enjoy that someone is willing to pay for interesting concept cars (although I think they are ugly).
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Rivian is delivering on 10,000 electric delivery vans for Amazon now.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2... [arstechnica.com]
They just look like a snub-nosed van though.
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So basically what VW did ? Common engine, drive train and running gear attached to a pan, bolt on whatever body (coupe, cabriolet, van or truck) you want on top of it.
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That was never quite the case for VW.
Initially, the microbus had the same engine and transmission as the bug, but was geared lower (2/3, iirc).
After just a couple of years, it had its own engine variant.
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I wouldn't bet on this company ever shipping a product, but I do think they have something going for them.
People made the same bet about Tesla (or Netflix overtaking Blockbusters)... just saying...
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I wouldn't necessarily bet against them either.
I personally hope they succeed. Ilove the idea of a small vehicle with tons of space.
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They are (for better or for worse) aggressively taking advantage of the design flexibility an EV can provide. Lots of small vehicles with interesting open interiors.
Those posts out at the front of the dash would drive me crazy, blocking your field of view. I like the look of it from the outside, reminds me of a VW Microbus truck.
Re: Electric car startups (Score:1)
They just need a price/feature/range demographic target of sufficient size.
We have dozens of auto makers on the planet churning out millions of ICE every year. Why is there only room for one EV maker?
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They also need to be sufficiently skilled at providing a product for that price/feature/range demographic target.
Re: Electric car startups (Score:1)
This is true. Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't. Time will tell on that point. But there's certainly room for more than 1 EV company. There better be because pretty much all of the ICE companies are going EV big time. In 5-10 years it might be hard to get a general purpose ICE car in many regions. Considering 5 years is the typical from nothing-to-show-room time cycle for new vehicles that's pretty damned fast.
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I seriously doubt ICE will die off quite that fast in the US.
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Why is there only room for one EV maker?
There are nearly a dozen companies making EVs including Tesla, Nio, Xpeng, BMW, Chevy, Audi, Ford, Hyundai, and Volkswagen. And that to doesn't include other brands. In fact, Tesla is starting to lose ground in both China and Europe because of other EV makers.
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Tesla is starting to lose ground in both China and Europe because of other EV makers.
Are they though? Lots of "Tesla doom and gloom" reporters like to pretend that the marketplace is EVs, but it's not - it's vehicles. As people buy more EVs they buy fewer ICEs.
The increase in EV sales by the other automakers needs to make up for their decline in ICE sales. At the moment that's not happening, so their overall share of the vehicle market is decreasing while Tesla is experiencing 50% growth year over year.
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Because those dozens of auto makers will be switching to making EVs or at least making them a large part of their portfolio in the near future.
Leaving all the political bullshit and the green-washing alike aside EVs thanks to the technical advances in battery storage technology make sense AT LEAST for passenger cars and SOME light truck applications today. Why because they are cleaner from a consumer standpoint, there are some weirdos out there but most people don't like pumping gas and smelling petrol or d
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AvitarX makes a good point— designing an effective platform may be easier to monetize than building it or the car.
The legacy companies (as evidenced by VW’s challenges) are behind in batteries, drivetrain, software, marketing, and the sales channel. They are focusing their energy on the wrong things (unlike VW), and not developing an effective platform. They also appear to be completely unprepared to make the switch in what will end up being a very accelerated timeline.
This creates a window fo
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I could almost see the electric vehicle world being kind of like the computing field.
A small(er) number of actual manufacturers that produce physical products for "car brands" that basically design a customized vehicle (exterior/interior design, some non-automotive features) that's based on a third party's "vehicle platform" that has most of the vehicle platform/systems (powertrain, self-drive, etc).
This lets Apple brand an electric car that looks like an Apple car and has a fair amount of Apple designed UI
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Turns out that it was formed by former employers of Deutsche Bank and Faraday Futures, another EV Startup. Wikipedia notes that the Faraday alumni left after disagreements with the management there.
It then goes on to explain that Canoo has already attracted a major automotive partner in the form of Hyundai and that in December
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Yeah, well that only works if you are right about where you put at least 51% of your dollars. The rich do enjoy a lot of advantages when it comes to getting richer. However this populist notion that they can't lose is a false narrative as well.
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At this point, for them to compete against the rest of the automotive industry, they would need either some kind of new battery tech
I mean that could be said about every car on the market. None of them stand out in terms of engine leaving you with the only real difference: the looks and finish of the thing.
So what does this truck startup have? They don't have battery tech (200 mile range, no thanks).
Tech can be bought especially battery / charging tech. What does this truck startup have? Well a different look.
That said this industry is high risk not because of competition or because of product differentiation, but rather because it's full of people peddling vapourware.
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I mean that could be said about every car on the market. None of them stand out in terms of engine
Wow dude, you're either high or you need to re-think what you said. A Mustang will beat a Yaris in terms of engine, even the cheapest model. People don't buy a Yaris because they want a good engine, they buy a Yaris because they want to pay $10k less USD than buying a Mustang.
(Now if you had said Porsche's don't stand out in terms of engine, then you would have a very true and realistic point. They don't stand out in terms of driveability, price, or looks either. Overall, you'd be better off with a Yaris a
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I didn't realise a Mustang was a company that I could invest in? Can you provide me a link? Where can I buy Mustang stocks?
If you think the only thing separating people who buy Mustangs and people who buy Yaris' is the price then you need to seriously not post before drinking your morning coffee.
Actually the lack of coffee would also explain why you're talking about cars rather than the subject at hand. Please try and follow the conversation next time.
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I didn't realise a Mustang was a company that I could invest in?
Oh, now you are changing your argument. Before you said " that could be said about every car on the market." Now you changed it to be about every car manufacturer on the market. Why are you changing your argument?
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If they could get a _good_ prototype that's mostly production-ready in two years, they (as a company) or that (as a prototype) could be bought by a classic car company that fell behind in its electric efforts.
Tesla started small - the Roadster was a low effort project in everything (at least compared to Model S and so on):
- use existing car (Lotus Elise), have a roadster (which is usually not driven for long periods or distances and is more of a "fun" car)
- go into a market with very high pr
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If they could get a _good_ prototype that's mostly production-ready in two years
I agree with you, but even in their optimistic predictions, their car only has a 200 mile range. That's not a good prototype by any imagination.
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Do they have any unique technology though? Most of these cars are just off-the-shelf parts. Almost like OEM laptops with a custom case build around a standard chassis. The Chinese are very happy to help with this.
Of course it's a bit more complex for a car than for a laptop, but I wouldn't be surprised if the base turns out to be from someone else, battery a standard BYD one or something, and them the top part semi-custom but using a lot of parts from other manufacturers.
Tesla took a long time to build up t
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Tesla created an aspirational product, much like an iPhone. An iPhone isn't the best phone, but it has the best marketing. It's desirable.
Tesla's battery tech is okay. It's partly owned by Panasonic anyway, and it is good for performance vehicles. Not so good on cost or energy density though. The Koreans are the leaders on that front. And China is hard to beat for very large capacity packs.
Remember that the Model S launched after the Nissan Leaf, and the Leaf sold way more than the S ever did. The Leaf prov
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"I don't understand why anyone would fund an automotive company startup. At this point, for them to compete against the rest of the automotive industry, they would need either some kind of new engine tech, or something special somewhere else. Ford has an advantage because they were the only ones making a affordable, rugged cars, and now they have better manufacturing tech than everyone else."
- Dodge Brothers, 1903
But seriously this company involves the guys from Faraday Future so it's basically guaranteed t
FCA reputation for build quality (Score:2)
In retrospect, it is a good question why the Dodge Brothers even bothered.
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At this point, for them to compete against the rest of the automotive industry, they would need either some kind of new engine tech, or something special somewhere else.
I mean, that was 100% true in 1903.
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Bad choice of example :)
In 1903, Ford was starting again, as his prior venture had vailed.
Cadillac was formed from the ashes of Ford's first company (and it's tech, or more particularly Leland's demanding engineering, was *far* ahead . . .)
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Actually, Nissan beat them to market with the Leaf. Nissan had the first-mover advantage, in addition to their decades of experience as an automotive manufacturer.
But Tesla executed better.
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Tesla had a car on the market two years before the Leaf.
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I don't understand why anyone would fund an electric car startup.
Depends on the "product". An electric car is not just an "electric car", it is a "car" and a "product", with features other than fuel efficiency. There can be ergonomics, interior and exterior design, function, price tag, intended usage/customer base, etc.
A Tesla is still an expensive, semi-luxury car. Give us a small and compact EV priced around a Corolla (or Prius, they are affordable), and that's a whole different game. Hell, it doesn't even need to be that comfortable if 1) is cheap enough for people
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Yeah an electric riding lawnmower would be way better.
Re: Why fund another EV startup? (Score:2)
I think one thing to consider is that Tesla has always offered its supercharging stations to any auto-maker interested in adopting their standards. (So far, they all refused.) It would be a win for Tesla because they'd still be able to bill users for the electricity used during each charging session (and presumably, it would let them gather some information on the charging and usable habits of people driving competing EVs). But it would also make a lot of sense, IMO, for a startup EV maker to do, to overc
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As someone who used to own shares in this company, the backing was not so much about the vehicles they would produce and sell themselves, but their development of a electric vehicle "skateboard." Basically, a complete frame, battery, motor solution that could be sold to the established ICE manufacturers to build their own cab and interior. The hope was that they would manage to strike a deal with an incumbent auto maker(s) and sell them their skateboards in quantity. It's not a foreign concept as quite a
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Back when ICE vehicles took off, there were a ton of companies that failed. We don't know yet who will be the next GM of EVs. It might actually be GM. Or someone else.
And each manufacturer does have their own spin on their vehicles. There's people who want a truck to boost their testosterone, and that's what Tesla an Hummer seem to be shooting for.
But there are plenty of others that want a truck for work, and this looks much more targeted at them. Just the idea of "Hey, let's put in several fold-down w
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Don't underestimate the value of style and fresh design work.
When we went from horse-drawn buggies to horseless carriages, they looked pretty much the same. That changed.
There's no reason an EV has to look like a gas motor car other than ergonomics. That leaves a pretty wide margin for innovation. The old car companies are all wrapped up and invested in old design concepts. New ideas are more likely to come from start-ups.
It's going to get interesting.
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You're probably right, but this truck is ugly.
Not sub-nosed (Score:2)
I like it (Score:2)
It's reminiscent of a Jeep Forward Control, and the expando-bed seems neat. I doubt the bed stuff would be very durable, but it's probably possible to make it take some abuse. I hope they succeed in making it.
Looks cool (Score:3)
Asking for a friend.
Re: Looks cool (Score:2)
Diesel-electric like a train? That would be cooler than rolling coal.
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Looks cool? To me it looks backward.
adapted for a three-person setup (Score:3)
Two down-on-their-luck members of a farming community stole a pig. The Sheriff got wind of this and had his deputies set up a roadblock. They had the radio on where news of this was announced because that is what the local radio station does. The two men being sought-after quickly dressed the pig in a spare flannel shirt, what everyone wears in that community, and sat the pig between them on the seat in their truck. They rolled up to the deputies who motioned them to lower the driver's window to answe
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No, you can't even get the electric version. You have to "subscribe", you'll never own it.
No carrying capacity or towing specified (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it really a truck when no carrying capacity is specified? And no towing capacity specified?
Isn't that really then just a car with a bed in the back? Even an El Camino specified load and towing capability
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In Japan, for example, these small pickup trucks are quite common. They don't need to haul 2 tonnes or tow a large boat. I see them moving tools to the fields, doing small deliveries in the city.
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Not every vehicle is designed with the US market in mind.
In Japan, for example, these small pickup trucks are quite common. They don't need to haul 2 tonnes or tow a large boat. I see them moving tools to the fields, doing small deliveries in the city.
I'll bet the Japanese still want to know what the carrying capacity is when they fork over dough to buy a new truck.
Steering wheel and unfoldable.. cool but orly? (Score:2)
It looks kind of cool but what do they have against round steering wheels? Everything unfolds even a table in the front, stairs on the side and extension of the back.. but pickups I thought get beat on a lot. Won't these get totally grimy and fail quickly? Also if it was my pickup (not that I ever owned one) I thin I'd prefer it to be one length and not mess with trying to extend it and always worry about it.
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It looks kind of cool but what do they have against round steering wheels? Everything unfolds even a table in the front, stairs on the side and extension of the back.. but pickups I thought get beat on a lot. Won't these get totally grimy and fail quickly? Also if it was my pickup (not that I ever owned one) I thin I'd prefer it to be one length and not mess with trying to extend it and always worry about it.
The extendable feature is actually not as silly as it looks at first since it extends carrying capacity without permanently lengthening the car. In some places, when you use ferries, toll bridges etc. cars are charged passage by length and it's pretty annoying to get bumped up one entire price class because your car is a couple of centimetres too long.
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The round wheel is patented, so they invented the square wheel.
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The extendable thing is something you find in current ICE trucks. Daily driving is easier with a shorter box, but sometimes you need to carry 8' long lumber. Extend it when you need to do that, and keep it short the majority of the time you aren't.
While we can't see it well enough to know how rugged all the fold-out bits are, fold down steps and such are already common in current trucks. They're not that problematic. They're just hinged hunks of steel you move with your hands, so there's not a whole lot
Very futuristic, very cool. (Score:1, Offtopic)
Steer and brake by wire? (Score:1)
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That's going to get tough because the supply of cars built before 2007 is starting to wear out, and for most practical purposes will be gone in 5 more years (extreme wrenching dudes excepted). Pretty much every car built since then steers and brakes by some combination of electricity, computer control, and powered hydraulics.
(when my 2010 GM sedan went dead due to an alternator/batter
Electric power steering =/= "Steer by wire" (Score:2)
Many post-2007 cars have electric power steering, meaning an electric motor that ASSISTS with steering. 99.99% of cars (yes, even Teslas) still have a good, old-fashioned u-jointed metal shaft running from the steering wheel to the steering box.
No thanks to getting rid of that shaft and relying entirely on a cum-puker for steering.
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Old Ford? (Score:2)
Let's see it on the road (Score:2)
Looks nice. Let's see them on the road and for sale.
Lucid, with ~$5 billion of investment backing and a large staff of experienced automotive people, has taken 5 years to be ready (almost!) for series production. Note to all new-thing EV startups: Stop showing renderings and get the real thing on the road, then we'll talk.
based on the headline (Score:2)
Their main business plan is subscriptions. (Score:2)
Their modular chassis is designed foremost towards city rental subscriptions with the end game being fully autonomous driving. You step into the car sit down and wait until it gets you to your city destination. This truck
Truck? (Score:2)
It appears to be a truck, but designed in such a way that people that need a truck would never purchase it.
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And leaving the tailgate down counts as a "bed extension" now?
When people ask me what kind of truck I drive, they might ask for an explanation when I tell them I drive a canoe.
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Depends what you need the truck for.
Need it to tow a 5th wheel or off-roading? No.
Need it to boost your testosterone and hang your truck nuts? No.
Need it because you're hauling lumber/drywall/pipe and your tools to the job site? Yes.
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That truck doesn't look like it would be anyone's first choice for "hauling lumber/drywall/pipe and your tools to the job site" though. The bed is small, and if the charge only last for 200 miles unladen, I'm gonna guess that if you load it down with gear in the bed the range decreases significantly. Non of the contractors I know would consider this a proper, useful "truck". It's an electric car with aspirations of adequacy.
Kinda ugly (Score:2)
Who is the idiot? (Score:2)
Who keeps thinking square steering wheels are a good thing?
Next up: square wheels with cool edges.
Did no one else notice? (Score:2)
Near the middle it says "...designed the pickup to have steer-by-wire and brake-by-wire systems controlling the vehicle..."
I'll take a pass on this one. Thanks.
I might reevaluate such systems when they have been around for a decade or two.
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> I might reevaluate such systems when they have been around for a decade or two.
Good news! Both of these have been around and in use in some production vehicles since at least 2010...
Also fly-by-wire has been a thing in airplanes for many decades now. Clearly not the same thing but yet, also kinda the same thing.
=Smidge=
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The primary control is an electronic sensor in the steering column detects the position of the wheel, which goes to a computer which calculates the required wheel angle, and uses a closed loop servo system to position the wheels. The mechanical steering column and gear - if there is one - does nothing unless the computer system fails. For all intent and purpose, it's steer by wire.
If the computer decides it wants to turn hard left at highway speeds when the actual input is a gentle right, you're basically S
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That's incorrect unless you're talking about a mid-2010s Infiniti Q50 or high-end BMW with a planetary gear in the steering system.
"If there is one" is also incorrect. Even the Q50 had a mechanical shaft for backup ... it would be illegal in many markets not to include one.
There's a wheel position sensor that's used for stability control, but the electric motor is primarily controlled by a torque sensor. Put a force on the steering wheel -- the sensor will detect a torque and instruct the motor to "help"