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Canada PlayStation (Games) Sony Games

Sony Won't Back Down On $1,400 In Charges Made To Grandmother's Credit Card (ctvnews.ca) 317

Long-time Slashdot reader theshowmecanuck writes: A grandmother let her 13 year old grandson use her credit card to buy added content for one of his games for which she thought would be a $15 charge. After the account opened up because of the credit card on it, he started downloading other things not realizing they were adding substantial charges to her credit card. She asked Sony to refund the charges, it's not like they can't disable the added content if they wanted, but they told her basically too bad so sad.
From the article: When CTV News Toronto reached on to PlayStation on Liscoumb's behalf a spokesperson said "We reviewed this case at your request and determined that it did not qualify for a refund as outlined in our terms of service and user agreement."

"I'm just heartbroken and Visa said they can't do anything, because I'm the one that put the credit card into the system," [the grandmother, Diana] Liscoumb said... Liscoumb said it will be difficult to pay back the $1,400 in charges and says her grandson is upset too. "He even offered to get a job when he turns 14 to help pay for it."

This story drew a range of reactions from Slashdot readers:
  • "This was a $1400 lesson that hopefully they both learned. Never trust a corporation to do the right thing."
  • "This is not on the vendor it is on the grandson, his parents and his grandmother... This should not be a news story at all. This should be a private learning lesson for the child, and his guardians."
  • "The real problem is still that companies are putting addictive gambling mechanics into games."
  • "Someone at Sony should fix the problem."

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Sony Won't Back Down On $1,400 In Charges Made To Grandmother's Credit Card

Comments Filter:
  • by iamhassi ( 659463 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @03:40PM (#61180000) Journal
    They know exactly what they’re doing with this games, and they know most these purchases are by naive children with someone’s credit card. If they refunded you, it would just open a Pandora’s box of refund requests. It is deceptive though, something should be done.
    • by liquidpele ( 6360126 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @03:47PM (#61180022)
      Apple already does this though. My kid ran up $800 and Iâ(TM)m an IT person who thought he locked it down. Itâ(TM)s very easy to do if you dont set up the accounts just right.
      • Will does gift credit card work?

        I'm sure you pay a fee for those, however, it sounds like that will back itself back manifold on first blunder.

        • by sarren1901 ( 5415506 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:20PM (#61180144)

          I was going to suggestion the same thing. Buy a prepaid gift card by Visa. It's a real card and even once it dries up, will still work for free trial signups as well. Also typically reloadable for $5 at a grocery store (safeway does this).

          Basically, protect yourself and stop handing your credit card to your children which typically do not grasp the concept of a dollar. Not the child's fault, many adults don't seem to understand it either.

        • by e3m4n ( 947977 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:32PM (#61180174)
          Unsure. I know that apple did not let me use my paypal card (MasterCard) or my bank card (Visa Debit) when creating a family sharing profile. They wont even let my wife or kids purchases come off a separate card. It had to be a full fledged credit card and somehow they knew. So the kids have to request authorization for in app purchases and store purchases. In-app breaks when you auth it. It takes the money and does not credit the buyer for the purchase. So if I do auth it, i have to unlock the restriction and have them try again. The one workaround to charging my credit card is making them buy itunes cards and load credit on their sign-on
        • " sounds like that will back itself back manifold on first blunder."

          Text to speech?

        • by malkavian ( 9512 )

          It doesn't cost much to do that. I have one for my niece.. It works nicely, and has limits on each card in the system.
          All of them are tied to physical addresses (which is the bit that some places reject over), so they're accepted for pretty much everything.
          Except there's only as much money as is loaded onto the card.

      • by vlad30 ( 44644 )
        Apple found out how much a PR disaster this was early on and probably why they very clear on in-app purchases and how they are handled. refunding it is better as long as its a mistake and they investigate it t make sure the refund system isn't abused and hopefully teaches the developer not to be deceitful. Apples system has its merits even if sometimes they are not developer friendly
        • by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot@worf . n et> on Sunday March 21, 2021 @02:06AM (#61181288)

          Apple found out how much a PR disaster this was early on and probably why they very clear on in-app purchases and how they are handled. refunding it is better as long as its a mistake and they investigate it t make sure the refund system isn't abused and hopefully teaches the developer not to be deceitful. Apples system has its merits even if sometimes they are not developer friendly

          Also a huge reason why Apple requires you to use their payment system. If any developer took Paypal or credit cards directly, Apple would get a lot of phone calls for refunds they can't offer because they never did the charge in the first place.

          Apple's only recourse would be to tell the customer that if they deny the charge, they have to do a chargeback or contact the developer themselves. Which is a shitty customer service experience but the honest truth since Apple cannot validate any transaction they didn't do.

          The instant Apple allows developers to use other payment systems, the headline will read "Apple refuses to refund $10,000 credit card charge". Because some developer bilked some guy for $10,000 for in-app payments that were not handled by Apple.

      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Easy enough done, simply mandate by law that virtual products must be returnable. Unsatisfied with the product by law you should be able to return, no wear no tear no restocking feed, just a delete. By law the return of virtual goods should be mandated. Especially when the company no longer supports the game and tries to delete the virtual goods it sold.

        Mandate the legal return of virtual goods for a refund, make it the law, harass the crap out of your politicians until they comply.

      • Iâ(TM)m an IT person

        You're an IT person who posts unicode on slashdot. Just saying.

    • by NFN_NLN ( 633283 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @03:59PM (#61180062)

      You shouldn't be allowed to use a credit card directly. You should be required to use the credit card to buy gift cards. Then use the gift card credit.

      Once the gift card runs out you need to buy another gift card. It's hard for that process to run out of control without your knowledge because you're literally required to buy gift cards.

      • by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:22PM (#61180146) Homepage Journal

        > You shouldn't be allowed to use a credit card directly. You should be required to use the credit card to buy gift cards. Then use the gift card credit.

        It looks like that's an option [playstation.com].

        I've never seen the input screen in question, but if it's not an obvious option to buy a limited gift card, some creative class-action lawyer will 'discover' that Sony intended to create a situation where unauthorized charges are likely to accrue. He might find a judge who agrees.

        If it's obvious and the grandma was naive, well, she wasn't on Slashdot when Sony was rootkitting people's PC's with hidden tracks on audio CD's.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Yep, one more reason to boycott Sony in general. Sony is now just another giant psychopath conglomerate in decline.

          Akio Morita died in 1999. Whatever vision, integrity, customer and product orientation, Sony once had, is long gone.
          • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

            They've been that way for decades. I purchased one of the first CD players to come to the market because they had a $100 rebate in one of our military papers when I worked in Germany ('83-85). After the purchase, you had to submit the receipt and your info to get the rebate. When I did, it was declined because I didn't live in the US. There was nothing indicating that was a requirement, and they were clearly advertising to military overseas. Fuckers.

        • by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @05:31PM (#61180356)

          Sony Music != Sony Electronics != Sony Entertainment

          We're not used to this in the Americas or in Europe, but in Japan companies have multiple branches with the same parent name. You remember when Sony tried to sue Sony in court, right?

          • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 20, 2021 @07:27PM (#61180654)

            Sony Music != Sony Electronics != Sony Entertainment
            We're not used to this in the Americas or in Europe, but in Japan companies have multiple branches with the same parent name. You remember when Sony tried to sue Sony in court, right?

            Perhaps if one of these branch companies didn't want the guilt by association they are guaranteed to have by associating themselves with the parent company name, they should learn not to choose to use that name...

            Oh, wait, they don't have that choice? They aren't different companies after all? But all under one company?

            Sounds like the guilt by association is well deserved then.

        • by ChoGGi ( 522069 )

          Not sure about on the console, but on the playstation.com store you can only purchase by adding a card or redeeming a gift card (it's pretty annoying).

          I'd post a screenshot, but it seems to /. imgur urls are " Filter error: Looks like ascii art. "

      • by diamondmagic ( 877411 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:48PM (#61180234) Homepage

        This is roughly what Nintendo does. You pay with store credit, and you use a credit card to add to your store credit, which requires re-entering your account password if you want to use a saved credit card. If you are short on store credit, you can add exactly the amount you need to complete the transaction. There is an option to turn off the password prompt at the time you charge your credit card, there is a clearly worded warning when you enable this, and you still have to enter your password simply to access the storefront.

    • Well its how you setup the profiles. She let him do it. She could have locked it down to pin code authorization in order to charge it again. She can dispute the charges with her CC company. If he did not lie on his profile then he is a minor. You are not legally allowed to engage in a contract with a minor. So its pretty likely sony would lose the dispute if they site any sort of agreement.
      • by Kaenneth ( 82978 )

        "You are not legally allowed to engage in a contract with a minor."

        well, you can, you just can't enforce it unless it's for food/shelter/clothing. (at least in the US)

    • by Luthair ( 847766 )
      Short of a learning disability, I don't buy the idea a 13 year old didn't know he was making purchases - maybe he wouldn't have kept track to realize the full total but he assuredly knew what he was doing.
    • by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

      If they reversed charges on demand, even if they pull back the purchased resources, it's going to completely destroy their sandbox economy. People will buy up a bunch of loot boxes to sell off the individual pieces, and if they find they didn't get sufficient value to turn a profit, they can just back out the entire purchase. Even if this costs them the ability to purchase loot boxes from that account again, why should a farmer/flipper care? They can set up shop with a new account.

    • It is deceptive though, something should be done.

      Deceptive indeed.

      Every time I order, say, food delivery, I have to put my credit card into a reader and enter my PIN code.

      Once my son asked me to buy some game for him, and I did using my card reader. I was most surprised to discover the next time he asked me, that I did not have to use the card reader to enter my PIN code: the transaction passed immediately. There was no warning at the time that I bought his first game that this company would gain permanent access to my credit card.

    • Excellent FP. File the story under child abuse, but legal.

      The only thing I want to add is that Sony is high on my list of companies I used to admire and respect but now disdain. Sometimes hate. Might be interesting to rank them to see which brands have fallen farthest. A few other candidates from my list of the fallen: HP, Facebook, IBM, the google. Dark horse candidate Toshiba, though I don't really hate them. It's just that Toshiba bet the company on nuclear power and lost. Some other people might include

  • First Rule (Score:3, Insightful)

    by vertex buffer ( 6954672 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @03:50PM (#61180038)
    Once you have their money, you never give it back.
  • When I think of the Epic/Apple lawsuits, this is the key. Apple not only takes a cut, but tends to err on the side of parents whose kids either maliciously or accidentally spends large sums of money. Yes, it is the responsible adults fault and yes it is their their obligation to pay, but it also poisons the entire swamp for short term profits. Kendrick Perkins kids had 16,000 worth of stuff. Other parents have 1,000 bills. Apple may not have the right solution, but there has to be some way to make it safe f
  • It's pretty clear if she only expected her grandson to charge $15 and ended up with $1,400 in charges that the additional $1,385 were unauthorized. Credit card companies are usually pretty good about resolving this sort of thing, because merchants agree to eat chargebacks as a contractual requirement of accepting credit cards, so the card company is almost never out the money themselves.

    Really, the only problem with doing a chargeback is that you might get banned from doing business with that company in th

    • Might want to look at what that does to one's credit rating.

    • by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
      Maybe the grandmother should have supervised the use of her credit card.

      I feel bad for the family and do believe Sony should refund most of the purchases but the responsibility for the card lies with the card holder and she authorized her 13 year old grandson to use it. Most 13 year olds do not understand how credit payments work.
    • You can go that road but it would mean the grandson is a theif. As a minor he wouldn't go to jail but it's still not good.

    • by hjf ( 703092 )

      This only happens in america. Visa and MC are american companies but they do as much or as little local laws allow them to do. If laws allow them to fuck you over, they will fuck you over. For example over here, unless you're at least "platinum", there is no number you can call and talk to a real person. If you're a "visa classic" or "visa gold" holder, you can't reach a human, and thus, you can't dispute a charge. You can report your card as stolen but you have to pay for any charges made until you report

      • by Kaenneth ( 82978 )

        You mean Canada?

        • by hjf ( 703092 )

          The story is about Canada, and my post is about america. Things that are the norm in America aren't necessarily the same in Canada. Maybe in Canada chargebacks work the same as in the USA. Maybe not.
          I know in Argentina they aren't.

    • Credit card companies generally only allow chargeback when you have been fraudulently charged, the service wasn't provided or someone stole the details. Her handing the details to her grandson who "mistakenly" spent the money would not qualify.
    • I am assuming she must of not known or put off calling too long? Maybe their are credit card companies who are so poor that they cannot fix this sort of thing for you, but honestly it sounds pretty simple. I recently had to file a fraud claim (against Walmart) and it was as simple as stating that "I did not make the purchase." For it to count as a legitimate claim. It did not matter that I had given Walmart my credit card and validated similar purchases.

  • Sad... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by greekBruin ( 998483 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:02PM (#61180074)
    For me, it is sad that so many readers side with the corporation, claiming that it is an "expensive lesson". It is a 13 year old kid who doesn't know what they are doing vs a huge company who knows very well what it is doing. The kid does not want to steal anything, they just want to return something they bought by mistake. Why people feel they need to side with the company? It's a mystery to me. If nothing else, even if they have no empathy, they should side with the kid out of self-interest as consumers. Because in the future they themselves will never be a huge corporation, but it is quite possible that they (or someone they care about) will also be screwed by a huge corporation.
    • Wonder how many of the screw grandma crowd are all in favor of forgiving student loans.
    • Its not about siding with anyone. plenty of fault all around. Sony are scum and make this sort of "crime" too easy, The grandmother made a critical mistake trusting her grandson and a second mistake in treating it as an accident rather than a crime (which would have allowed the charges to be reversed).
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by drkshadow ( 6277460 )

      You're so full of shit. The 13 year old knew _exactly_ what they were doing.

      Thirteen year olds are _very_ tech savvy. Add a credit card to the account, they can purchase whatever they want to purchase. It will (probably) ask every time, "Do you want to purchase this item for $xx?" And so they did.

      Then the "kids" get-out-of-jail-free card: "Whoops, I didn't mean to do that!"

      but it was a thirteen year old making this financial contract -- _that_ is invalid. It would take a lawyer, but this would never stand t

      • In fact, lets add a +1 and a +2:

        - In case of a minor making a purchase that is later declared invalid or refunded, then:
        a. the payment processor shall refund all fees for said purchase (Sony doesn't suffer where it has to refund 100% and eat the fees)
        - In the case of a minor making a purchase that is non-revokable,
        a. The merchant must refund any profit and
        b. the payment processor must refund all fees for the transaction
        (no one shall _profit_ from this transaction)

        Yes, it opens it up to "teens" making a purc

  • Simillar issue here (Score:5, Informative)

    by zopeuser ( 660941 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:07PM (#61180096) Homepage
    I had a similar problem. My son took my wifes credit card and spent 120 Euros on Fortnite. I got an email and contacted Sony immediately. The credit wasn't used in the game, but no refund. I could follow up with police as a crime, but who would do that to their son. Sony are a bunch of gangsters. Son was on naughty step for 6 months. Hint to all parents. Rub the 3 digit code off the back of your credit card.
    • by sarren1901 ( 5415506 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:37PM (#61180190)

      So wait, it's sony fault your kid stole your wife's credit card to charge 120 Euros on Fortnite? No way that's Sony's fault.

      • No, Sony is benefitting from the proceeds of a crime. If someone stole my wallet and traded it to you for some Sony games, when the police showed up, you'd still have to turn over my wallet with all of the money. Even if your trade was legit and the original thief was never found.
        • by misnohmer ( 1636461 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @06:23PM (#61180474)

          Sony are not benefiting from a crime if no crime has been committed. The OP could report the crime to the police, then Sony would have no choice but to refund, or the credit card company would do a automatic chargeback. I've had my credit card number stolen a couple of times over the years, one time thieves bought over $3,000 at a hardware store, another time over $2,000 at Apple, and there was no problem whatsoever getting the money back once I signed a declaration that it was not me, and whoever charged it, used stolen credit card.

          • Sony are not benefiting from a crime if no crime has been committed. The OP could report the crime to the police

            A crime does not have to be reported in order for it to be a crime.

            And if you think reporting this would be a good thing, please don't have children.

      • Greed, on the part of bad parenting (not bad parents) for not taking responsibility for their actions and their kid's actions. The fault is with your kid - prosecute or eat the charges that is the parents choice. Whining about the companies not refunding is more childish than your child's selfish actions.

    • "I could follow up with police as a crime, but who would do that to their son" Someone who wants to make sure their kid doesn't end up in jail later in life because you enabled him.
    • Did you ask for a charge-back at least through your bank?

  • that they got the bad press. If it hadn't made the news they'd be SOL.

    Also they make it entirely too easy to make those purchases, especially for FIFA and NBA2k. Hell, NBA2k put a literal casino in the last game installment.
  • It's likely that the only way for granny to get the money back would also get the grandson banned by Sony for fraud.
  • Is not like a gran-gran who does not know how apps and games works is doing her grocery purchases in Amazon Fresh or Blue-Appron. she probaly buys her food in a brick and mortar supermarket, and her medicines in a meat-space pharmacy.

    In those places you can buy prepaid credit cards, not gift cards, mind you, but real credit cards. Those are prominently displayed, because the company wins a nice profit on what is essentialy a very small piece of cardboard and plastic.

    There are both one-use and rechargeable t

  • by vinn01 ( 178295 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:14PM (#61180124)

    I used to buy my kids Visa prepaid gift cards for on-line gaming. These were non-reloadable cards that cost face value.

    One nice feature is that when the balance was down close to over $1, I would set the card aside for use on websites that required a credit card. The websites would validate the credit card with a $1 fake charge, which would be approved. I used the same $1.25 remaining balance gift card on many game sites.

    I saved a lot of money because countless games would have sneaky in-app purchases that were attempted to be charged.

  • by capncaps ( 7197418 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:40PM (#61180200)
    The law that deals with this in Canada may be quite different, so my issue may have a different conclusion. My teen niece who was living with me when her parents were recuperating from a bad bout of C-19, did almost the same thing, she ran up my card when ordering games, not really realizing the cost. It was about 1,000 US and I simply called the police. Yup. They came, took a report, but did not arrest her but gave a court date for an appearance. I took the police report and gave it to Visa who then rescinded the charges. Most card companies will do that if you have a police report. Once the card amount was refunded , I refused to make a statement or make an appearance in court but wrote a letter telling them the issue was resolved.Case dismissed, money refunded. All except the niece who could not believed I called the po-po on her.
    • That isn't U.S specific, As long as you correctly treat it as a crime then you can generally get the charges reversed whether Sony et al agree to it or not. Unfortunately many parents/grandparents are too soft to do the right thing.
    • Once the card amount was refunded , I refused to make a statement or make an appearance in court

      The prosecutor on your case decided to not bother. That does not always happen, and you do not have the option to "refuse" to go to court if they decide they'd like to try the case.

      Also, assuming it's a misdemeanor charge you may be testifying before a judge, not a jury (varies by state). He's going to not be pleased if you "refuse" to testify, or attempt to change your previous sworn statements.

      Your legal advice is extremely dangerous and could easily destroy a lot of lives.

  • by Tangential ( 266113 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:43PM (#61180214) Homepage
    The is the same company that had no compunction about root kitting their customers. What do you expect?
    • I have not forgotten how Sony put root kits on their customer's systems with zero disclosure (through audio CDs), got hit with a class action lawsuit over it, lost, and then went and did the very same thing again.

      I will never forget. Nor will I ever use Sony services.

      They are a whole pack of thieves who see customers as victims waiting to be exploited.

  • by tannhaus ( 152710 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @04:43PM (#61180216) Homepage Journal

    A new consumer protection law needs to be set up to make this type of thing illegal. Basically, they make it easy to understand and easy to accomplish to enter your credit card information to make a purchase, but make you jump through other hoops to use parental controls, add spending limits, etc. The fact one of the remedies the Playstation rep proved was to delete the credit card info says it all.

    They should be required to get permission for each specific charge and make it very clear that it is a new charge. As it is, they're doing just like strip clubs and slyly running up your tab once they get your credit card on file.

    • Agreed. And let's make sure that law makes Amazon [amazon.com] ("Here are some suggestions to help you avoid unexpected charges on your bill."), Microsoft, [azure.com] ("We are in discussions with the cost management team to see if this capability can be done and when. Nothing is planned at this time.") and Google [google.com] ("After you enable billing, there is no limit to the amount that you might be charged.") provide a way to actually limit - not "help limit" - charges.

  • to qoute b. kliban; http://quotehound.blogspot.com... [blogspot.com]
    Or, in this case, never give a CC to teenagers.
    Also relavant, The legal principle of "ignorantia juris non excusa" (Ignorance of the law is no excuse). https://njsbf.org/2018/04/23/i... [njsbf.org]
  • ... wouldn't have been possible without them stealing videogames and backending games to begin with. Beginning with ultima online in 97 when the computer illiterate masses got internet. Teaching Sony and the rest of the game industry that the average gamer is a computer illiterate moron.

    That's how we ended up with steam/uplay/battle.net drm/rockstar social club/etc.

  • Sony had an opportunity to use this as a teachable moment and for some good PR. They failed.

    I'd like to see a GoFundMe or something so other gamers can contribute a couple bucks each to help this grandma pay off the credit card and let this kid keep his goodies.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      help this grandma pay off the credit card and let this kid keep his goodies

      Umm, no. That's not teaching either party anything. It's just a shame there's no way to connect electrodes to Sony's private parts to teach them something as well.

      • It's a kid and an old lady. Clearly neither has a grip on the technology they're using. I agree that they have no business using things without understanding them, but the punishment isn't fitting the infraction for them.

  • by nickmalthus ( 972450 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @05:24PM (#61180336)

    If Sony had a glitch in their systems and accidentally gave away free games or deposited credit into people's accounts they would naturally expect to be able to clawback the misallocated funds. Shouldn't their customers be afforded the same protection in a similar situation where they inadvertently incur exorbitant charges well beyond their typical expenditures?

    What is good for the goose is good gander.

  • Expensive lesson but maybe this will teach the kid to stop wasting his life on pointless crap like loot boxes in games. GO outside and walk the dog etc.
  • The way this works with xbox is that you set up a family group with your account (as administrator) and the child's account...
    1. The parent can put a finite amount of money into the child's account, to give the the right amount of autonomy to buy stuff. No need to get a prepaid visa card.
    2. The system notifies the parent of what purchases the child has made, so you can keep an eye that you're indeed teaching them the right lessons
    3. It also keeps tabs on how many hours they've played, and lets you set up al

  • The problem is the credit card companies. They insist on using ancient technology like credit card numbers with no way to control anything even if the tech already exists. The way credit cards should work is that you should be able to create virtual credit card numbers on the fly that have some specific maximum value allowed to be withdrawn and/or be able to specify what each company should be able to withdraw from your credit card. All this can already be implemented but the credit card companies dont't ca

  • I know I sound outdated. BUT, the kid would have also learned the value of money if they had to hand some over every time they wanted something. Valuable lessons today's children won't be exposed to.
  • I signed up for citibank because you easily generate "virtual accounts numbers" with dollar and time limits - I generally use these in any questionable situations like this

    I also have instant alerts set for any time my card gets charged - this has caught card theft at least once in the past few years

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Saturday March 20, 2021 @09:35PM (#61180928) Journal

    All the people saying they hope the grandmother "learned a lesson" and so on seem to me like they fail to grasp the real issue!

    Today's kids are caught in the middle of a new reality where the devices they use every day as their toys/entertainment are expecting they've got bank accounts and credit/debit cards configured on them to purchase the software they run. When I was a kid and wanted a toy, I did exactly what today's kids are doing here; went to my parents or grandma and asked if they'd buy it for me. (Maybe threw in a promise to clean my room or do some chores in exchange... whatever....)

    But now, that process means the adult has to actually navigate the whole process of doing the online purchase, including signing in with the proper login/password for the service supplying the software and putting all the card info in, etc. Especially for not-so-tech-savvy grandma, this is a real hurdle! (Heck, she may even struggle to read the text on a smartphone's tiny screen.) So it usually winds up they just trust the kid to borrow their card for a few minutes to buy whatever it is they want.

    I've seen this play out with our own kids and grandma.... including dealing with unwanted charges to her card. In our situation, I'm not 100% sure if our kid knew she was stealing from grandma, ordering stuff she shouldn't have been. Maybe ... but honestly every bit as likely she just got confused, because she had funds added to her account by way of gift cards people gave her as birthday presents and so on. At some point, it seems very likely a kid with X amount of credit balance in an online account would think he/she had enough money to buy some games or add-ons, and not realize he/she had actually exceeded that and begun charging the overage to a credit card still on file from a past purchase.

    What's worse about this whole thing is it encourages kids to ask for those pre-paid debit cards as gifts, so they have their own method to pay for these virtual things. Those cards are garbage though because they take fees right off the top of the total. So if the kid was supposed to get $50 as a gift, he or she now has maybe only $42-45 to actually spend.

The gent who wakes up and finds himself a success hasn't been asleep.

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