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Google and Microsoft Team Up To Fix Compatibility Issues Between Browsers (engadget.com) 41

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
Google, Microsoft and the broader web community are working together to make it easier for developers to build websites that work seamlessly across browsers. From a report: They've teamed up for a cross-browser effort called #Compat2021, which aims to eliminate the top five browser compatibility pain points on the web for developers. The group identified the issues they decided to focus on based on usage data, number of bugs reports, survey feedback and test results. One of the most problematic issue that they want to address is with CSS Flexbox, since images as flex items are often stretched incorrectly and differently between browsers. They also want to improve CSS Grid so that it can be used to create animated grid layouts on Chromium and WebKit -- at the moment, the ability is only supported in Gecko. The group wants to work on sticky positioning so that any content that's stickied looks consistent across browsers, as well. Similarly, they want to make sure web elements maintain a consistent width-to-height ratio and that animations and 3D effects look the same whatever browser a user is on.
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Google and Microsoft Team Up To Fix Compatibility Issues Between Browsers More

Google and Microsoft Team Up To Fix Compatibility Issues Between Browsers

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  • Why? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Just use FireFox

  • #1 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darkain ( 749283 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:55PM (#61190128) Homepage

    The #1 issue on the web is the same as it was two decades ago.

    Web sites doing use agent checking instead of feature checking.

    "oh, your user agent doesn't match what we know, therefor it OBVIOUSLY cannot render this web site at all, nor will we allow you to just continue on your own. we'll actively prevent you from even trying! BWAHAHAHAHAHAAA"

    • Re:#1 (Score:5, Funny)

      by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @01:58PM (#61190144)

      At this point it seems like it'd be better if we just replaced HTML with PDF*.

      * stabbable dolls in my likeness are available on Etsy

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      Yep, like Rotten Tomatoes which does the most idiotic thing, it renders the whole webpage completely fine, then it checks the User Agent, decides the browser isn't supported and redirects away from the perfectly rendered web page to tell you it won't show you the page. FML... Checked again, now they've broken the page, it's like the coders want it to break. I expect it'd work ok if I faked user agent but they're not worth it.

      I'd rather not have a User Agent it's just another tool for browser fingerprinting.

    • And funny enough. That is how EVERY Google site works. They could start by cleaning up their own code.

  • Compatibility issues created my MICROS~1 (Score:4, Funny)

    by terrorubic ( 7709666 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @02:01PM (#61190156)
    Compatibility issues created my MICROS~1

  • Back in the day, there was only one web browser available.

    Ah, those were the days.... ...when Gopher had more traffic than the web. :)

  • Unless Safari joins this party, the effort will be largely pointless - at least from a mobile browser perspective. Safari is looking every single day like an old and crusty wart that needs to be removed but is still the default on Mac and iOS. Oh Apple spruces the Safari UI a little now and then (a useless gesture) but you still can't do basic things like record and upload audio on iOS Safari (but you can ironically record and upload video), the flexbox model is even worse on Safari than other browsers, f

    • The problem is Apple doesn't want to add features that allow running apps in Safari since it gives developers a vector around the App store. I mean they had a cow when Jack bypassed the Apple connector by using the headphone jack for his Square CC reader and eventually eliminated the jack altogether. I know that's not why, but it's still funny.

    • Unless Safari joins this party, the effort will be largely pointless

      Most websites will start using these new features as soon as they are available. With a 15% market share, iOS and MacOS might warrant an add-on CSS file for compatibility purposes, just like IE6 did.

      Alternatively, many websites will just suggest Safari users install a supported browser. If Dreamweaver didn't check automatically, I wouldn't even know Safari had problems with my pages.

      --

      • You can't install another browser on iOS. They all have to use "WebKitView" or something, which means they're all Safari.

  • Google and Microsoft team up to make THEIR browser (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @02:11PM (#61190204)

    compatible with each other, no doubt keeping or introducing new subtle incompatibilities to drive people away from alternative choices. Not that there are that many left anymore mind you: Chromium is now sitting like a gigantic pile of poo over the entire web in one form or another.

    • "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."

      â Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
      If you read the article it's actually about addressing use cases of not following the standards. Don't let facts get into the way of your hate-boner for every company in existence, this is Slashdot after all.
  • Internet Explorer, despite being declared "dead" is still haunting intranets and government websites world wide due to the attempted monopoly. The same thing will happen today with old Chromium versions. In 2040 if we still use html browsers by then we will be cleaning up the mess of the decisions that they are making right now. The closest we can get is a GDPR like law that requires compatibility with at least two open source browser engines that are not tied to monopoly companies.

  • Alternate headline: (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dicobalt ( 1536225 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @02:43PM (#61190302)
    Microsoft and Google team up to break Firefox.

  • Now try to think of one sentence you can utter that begins with "Microsoft and Google team up" and doesn't end with a tingle going down your spine and the hairs on the back of your neck standing up. Taking the two biggest user abusers and putting them together seems like a recipe for disaster.

    I can't imagine a worse choice than either company to try to decide web standards going forward, except for maybe the two of them working together. This seems like a road to utter insanity for web developers the worl

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
      I agree, it'd be much better if they worked counter / independent of each other. Then we could all bitch that they're not following standards.

      • Just like the good* old days!

        * for the kids who didn't live through the first Browsers Wars (IE3 vs NS3), I am being sarcastic here.

  • Actually good (Score:3)

    by Merk42 ( 1906718 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:04PM (#61190378)
    If any of you actually read the article you'd see that it's about the browsers not following standards, and making them do so
    But, this is Slashdot, so since it's Microsoft and Google (and basically any company), it's therefore bad and you'll all get modded +5 insightful for saying it.

    • Re: Actually good (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ThurstonMoore ( 605470 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:29PM (#61190464)

      No, we're just all old enough to remember IE6 hell.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
        Why was IE6 such hell?

        • OMFG, did the IE6 Years suck for everyone involved.

          1. Microsoft, in total monopoly mode, with nearly all the browser share, decided its profoundly broken and noncompliant browser was the last one anyone would need, and parked development at v6 for what seems like a decade.

          2. Microsoft adds NTLM auth, pushes it with every OS install, gets your corporate IT guys to think anything but IE6 is non-standard (the exact opposite of what was actually going on).

          3. Since IE6 is now the web "standard", idiot developers

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
            So it was bad be because Microsoft was doing their own thing, which didn't follow standards, and then didn't actively develop it anymore...
            Yet when they DO actively develop it, BY working with others TO follows standards, as per the article, that's also bad?

            That's kinda my point. Microsoft's action in TFA is the complete opposite of the stuff they did bad in IE6. But, since it's Microsoft and this is Slashdot, everything Microsoft does is bad and wrong and evil, even when they do the sort of things Slashdo

            • I was responding to your question on why IE6 was so bad, not stating any position on the article.

              In fact, Microsoft has gotten a lot better about embracing open standards, particularly since Ballmer hied his ass outta there.

              But those of us who've watched Microsoft and the other giants for a long time have seen plenty of "embrace and extinguish".

              It's not as though they haven't given people reason for suspicion.

  • Simplify web standards (Score:3)

    by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:09PM (#61190400) Homepage
    Simplify web standards back to something reasonable. Then use them. Right now, we are down to basically two rendering engines, neither of which is fully compliant with the horror that is the CSS living standard. Or whatever they decided to call it, when they decided to let it go into continuous-change mode.

  • Speaking of sticky (Score:3)

    by TFlan91 ( 2615727 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @03:29PM (#61190466)

    Native html sticky thead would be nice

    Native html sticky row headers would be gravy

  • Mozilla Firefox (Score:3)

    by PineHall ( 206441 ) on Tuesday March 23, 2021 @04:50PM (#61190736)

    They also want to improve CSS Grid so that it can be used to create animated grid layouts on Chromium and WebKit — at the moment, the ability is only supported in Gecko.

    They are trying to play catch up with Firefox. Gecko is Firefox's browser rendering engine. Funny the article does not mention Mozilla or Firefox, even though they have the CSS technology that Google and Microsoft want in their browsers. But then again the article says "Webkit" when should say "Blink"

  • >"Google, Microsoft and the broader web community are working together to make it easier for developers to build websites that work seamlessly across browsers."

    A project by Google and Microsoft, which = Chrom*. No participation of Mozilla or Apple mentioned. "Web community" = maybe some web developers, not browser developers. If this really is an effort to help ALL the browsers (3 major= Chrom*, Firefox, Safari) try to maintain compatibility, I could not be more supportive and excited. But I am skept

  • Wasn't this the idea behind standards that have now been in place for what, 20 years?

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